Oh I don't doubt that there are quite a few insiders or devs that post anonymously. I mean taking subtle jabs at one another is kinda fun. Here, it shows that having your name attached to it doesn't do you any favors though.
I mean, I guess if the guy is willing to speak his mind under his actual name, kudos to him. I don't think I would just because it seems like every other day you see someone get fired for some social media comment.
Oh I don't doubt that there are quite a few insiders or devs that post anonymously. I mean taking subtle jabs at one another is kinda fun. Here, it shows that having your name attached to it doesn't do you any favors though.
I mean, I guess if the guy is willing to speak his mind under his actual name, kudos to him. I don't think I would just because it seems like every other day you see someone get fired for some social media comment.
As long as you dont write anything racist, sexist or something like that, there's no issue. It's sad that people need to be anonymous because they are afraid of getting fired for participating in a discussion.
I think there is no way this won't have kaguar or puma. It releases too early for zen, and if it did I'm sure the reveal would have said something like "8 core next generation CPU".
While I think devs should sometimes be a little more professional, when it comes to saying things like this, I don't personally think the PS4 Pro is "half assed" but people really shouldn't take it so personally either, it's just his opinion, doesn't mean he is right and it's just a games console at the end of the day.
Will be interesting to see if MS comment on this at all, but I expect they will probably just stay pretty silent until the E3 reveal.
As long as you dont write anything racist, sexist or something like that, there's no issue. It's sad that people need to be anonymous because they are afraid of getting fired for participating in a discussion.
For sure. I'm just saying, hypothetically, if you happen to be employed by one of the 3 console makers; and you happen to say something that even remotely belittles one or the other that it's probably best if your name wasn't attached to it is all. I mean it's gotta be rough for all the people who are openly in the industry to post on here cause everything gets put under a microscope.
Scorpio is clearly a next gen console from Microsoft. i think if you were at E3 2016 and saw what some got the chance to see and hear, you would be pretty damn confident in that feeling, contrary to attempted assurances to anyone concerned about what it meant for Xbox One. The only problem people seem to be having is understanding that "next gen" doesn't have to mean exactly the same as what it has meant in years past. It not having exclusives is a tiny price to pay for all the advantages that come with the current direction. One route may offer more visually stunning games, but the other offers the real opportunity for not just better games, full compatibility for all xbox one titles, but I believe it makes things easier on developers. They'll be able to release games quicker and also not have to start over from scratch in terms of userbase.
That's the new strategy going forward; maintain support for all the previous system's games while having a much more powerful system in place that can run those same usually quite impressive games far better than Xbox One can manage.
But, again, this is the same as the PS4 Pro.. you just described the PS4 Pro.. but that console is (according to this thread) a new generation, it is only "half-assed"..
For sure. I'm just saying, hypothetically, if you happen to be employed by one of the 3 console makers; and you happen to say something that even remotely belittles one or the other that it's probably best if your name wasn't attached to it is all. I mean it's gotta be rough for all the people who are openly in the industry to post on here cause everything gets put under a microscope.
I agree. I mean, just look at this thread. A pretty innocent comment, made by a user who also happens to be a developer is turned into a shitstorm against him.
Been saying this since the beginning, a 6x increase is too big to believe there will be parity outside of a resolution bump.
Yeah your Xbox Scorpio games will also run on your Xbox One. Like shit. That's all there's to read in that statement. The architecture is the same, just much more powerful.
6x increase (it's 5x actually, leading to 6 TF) but only to the GPU according to most sources. Which means a resolution bump is pretty much all that's good for (though a fairly big bump).
I'd be more inclined to agree with Thomas if the CPU was proportionally upgraded.
And I must admit I'm curious about the same thing many others are, as I wish to understand his point of view better. What exactly makes the Scorpio next-gen, but not the PS4 Pro? Why one but not the other? I'd like to understand his point of view better and it's disappointing that he's not really expanding on that point.
It's his choice--no one can make him expand on it, but it's still rather disappointing because I'd like to understand his POV better but can't like this.
-currently we have some PS4 titles where there are big upgrades, but also some instances where things have faltered or aren't up to expectation.. blown out of proportion for sure, but I've seen plenty of posters angrily commenting about performance not being to their expectations
-scorpio a much bigger jump from the base console (it's releasing later, but that doesn't mean we don't compare, right) but if they had simply doubled the GPU, we'd all be laughing
-the memory bandwidth is drastically improved (it's also coming from a lot lower, but they clearly went above and beyond)
-they added a lot more RAM.. Sony added 1GB, with 512MB not devote towards games (did allocated change?), MS is adding 4GB more and if 4k is our target, having the RAM for those textures seems like a no-brainer.
-lastly is CPU which is currently unknown, but people assume it'll be better by default. even if it's a jaguar, I assume people expect them to take it further
-it seems highly likely Scorpio will also feature an UHD drive like the S, not related to gaming but it should be a standard in a console releasing at the moment and feels like a cheap move to skip on that
-a year and a half before launch MS has already told customers what to expect from first party utilizing the power (4k for first party all around).. on Sony's 1st party end it seems to vary game to game
People keep asking what ever could he have meant, so these are some potentials areas where we can compare. Half-assed might be a little blunt, but in comparison there are differences where it looks like MS is taking extra steps, whereas Sony may have held back.
Not typing this to get into some list war back and forth; take it as a quick two minute assessment.
Ehh to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing more exclusive devs take jabs at the competition.
It's kinda funny as long as it doesn't go overboard, but it will always devolve into a real shit storm on Gaf and elsewhere on the internet.
In any case for those saying Scorpio is a new gen does that mean PS5 is a new gen as well? (especially if it has an all new CPU or whatever).
Ehh to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing more exclusive devs take jabs at the competition.
It's kinda funny as long as it doesn't go overboard, but it will always devolve into a real shit storm on Gaf and elsewhere on the internet.
In any case for those saying Scorpio is a new gen does that mean PS5 is a new gen as well? (especially if it has an all new CPU or whatever).
Cerny was really, really clear what a generational leap means from his & (probably) Sony's perspective. He gave some clear metrics on what it means.
By his definition Scorpio isn't it.
Ultimately it doesn't matter. Pro was clearly messaged, designed & is being marketed as a more powerful PS4; it's aimed at higher spending late adopters, Sony diehards and core gamers who want a bit more.
If MS want to market a 4-5x more powerful box as a new generation they're more than welcome to. If they want to market it as a mid-gen upgrade and then change that messaging to it being next-gen, they could do that too.
I just think that the early announcement and pretty clear attempt to hit some kind of generation reset to get a technology advantage is a response borne of being back in the position they were in Gen 6, and may well be a final throw of the dice to entrench & lock in a high-spending core audience to a console-based Xbox brand.
-currently we have some PS4 titles where there are big upgrades, but also some instances where things have faltered or aren't up to expectation.. blown out of proportion for sure, but I've seen plenty of posters angrily commenting about performance not being to their expectations
-scorpio a much bigger jump from the base console (it's releasing later, but that doesn't mean we don't compare, right) but if they had simply doubled the GPU, we'd all be laughing
-the memory bandwidth is drastically improved (it's also coming from a lot lower, but they clearly went above and beyond)
-they added a lot more RAM.. Sony added 512MB that isn't devoted to games at all (did allocated change?), MS is adding 4GB more and if 4k is our target, having the RAM for those textures seems like a no-brainer.
-lastly is CPU which is currently unknown, but people assume it'll be better by default. even if it's a jaguar, I assume people expect them to take it further
-it seems highly likely Scorpio will also feature an UHD drive like the S, not related to gaming but it should be a standard in a console releasing at the moment and feels like a cheap move to skip on that
-a year and a half before launch MS has already told customers what to expect from first party utilizing the power (4k for first party all around).. on Sony's 1st party end it seems to vary game to game
People keep asking what ever could he have meant, so these are some potentials areas where we can compare. Half-assed might be a little blunt, but in comparison there are differences where it looks like MS is taking extra steps, whereas Sony may have held back.
Not typing this to get into some list war back and forth; take it as a quick two minute assessment.
By that metrics, one could say GTX1060 is half ass, GTX1070 is next gen even they both play all the same game as a 750ti, just because GPU is faster, have more ram and more bandwidth, one is full blown next gen the other is not.
That's how we define console generation now?
-they added a lot more RAM.. Sony added 512MB that isn't devoted to games at all (did allocated change?), MS is adding 4GB more and if 4k is our target, having the RAM for those textures seems like a no-brainer.
Has this point been confirmed somewhere yet? I originally thought it had but was corrected by someone that it wasn't yet confirmed.
I think generations have become very different beasts to what they once were, and the definitions will continue to evolve and blur as we move forward. It's a lot more about supporting services and how the platform holder treats and supports the machines than simple specifications.
By that metrics, one could say GTX1060 is half ass, GTX1070 is next gen even they both play all the same game as a 750ti, just because GPU is faster, have more ram and more bandwidth, one is full blown next gen the other is not.
That's how we define console generation now?
The part about support I meant was, it has been hinted at by some media outlets that base PS4 didn't have appropriate power level for their vision of supporting the true capability of the PSVR. Even the people that upgraded to Pro but started using PSVR on OG PS4 said the gaming difference using it on the Pro is night and day over base PS4.
I'd like to hear what the MS statement is about why they are putting a system out now. If they have a heavy hitting line up coming at around the launch of Scorpio, I haven't heard too much. So far, we have DF Speculation in a YouTube video about what they think it could be, a Phil tweet that things are looking good and ... well this info in this thread.
Ah true. I can see that as a really good reason for them getting the console out now.
Maybe Sony and MS were both planning on mid gen consoles, but Sony had a reason to get it out now due to VR limitations, but maybe MS was able to wait, like you said. I'd imagine they'd want as much power as they can get for a good experience with the Rift.
I agree they provided a good upgrade for $400. If Sony thought they needed to get it out now, then that's fine imo.
It's only been 3 years though, and I wouldn't blame people for wondering how it would've turned out if the Pro released at the end of this year or whenever Zen released, due to some of the limitations it's facing right now. As an upgraded console, I think some would've been fine with another release date if it meant a new cpu or better performance/graphics.
Hell, if Scorpio doesn't have a new cpu (a man can dream 😬 I'll be pondering some of this.
Honestly i couldn't have said it better.
You aren't serious but this is exactly the definition that most of gaffers believe, they are happy with that and don't want to change, good for them i guess.
To be honest it seems to me that some people just can't accept that MS is the one doing this so they try to downplay it. Just to be clear i have never had a xbox console.
Honestly i couldn't have said it better.
You aren't serious but this is exactly the definition that most of gaffers believe, they are happy with that and don't want to change, good for them i guess.
Traditional console generation is the definition of change. Change of architecture, change of OS, change of control scheme, change of ecosystem, change of market leader.
So yes, I don't want that to change.
Traditional console generation is the definition of change. Change of architecture, change of OS, change of control scheme, change of ecosystem, change of market leader.
So yes, I don't want that to change.
1)can't console evolve(in better)?
2)aren't 2017 pc different from 2012 pc? Aren't they more advanced? Haven't they different hardware generations? isn't 2017 windows different from 2012 windows? Weren't new controllers introduced and so on? But they play the same games, why can't be the same for consoles?
You are confusing evolution with manufacturers' speculation, all that you like can be done with compatible consoles too.
1)can't console evolve(in better)?
2)aren't 2017 pc different from 2012 pc? Aren't they more advanced? Haven't they different hardware generations? isn't 2017 windows different from 2012 windows? Weren't new controllers introduced and so on? But they play the same games, why can't be the same for consoles?
You are confusing evolution with manufacturers' speculation, all that you like can be done with compatible consoles too.
Because a clean break help new technology adoption.
Microsoft of all comapany is both benifit and a victim of these "evolution". How many year we have been stuck with Windows OS on PC? Where's the legit competition?
How about that superior Window phone OS can't break through the mobile market? We could have use more advance system or tech but we stuck with big monopoly because we don't want to lose our old stuff.
Do you really want to choose a gaming platform base on the legacy but not the better system?
Console generation is the one unique thing left, are we really want to give it up in the name of compatibility.
Doesn't he make games exclusive for Microsoft platforms? Perhaps a slightly biased source.
It's great that MS will win the spec war against PS Pro, by being 1.4x (or a bit more) more powerful, but I don't see how that qualifies as 'generational leap' when the PS4 Pro doesn't, unless there is some crazy secret sauce we don't know about.
MS had at LEAST this kind of performance advantage the previous two proper generations, so really this is just a return to their norm. Xbox One might have flipped that same power advantage over to Sony temporarily, but that's the exception.
I think performance advantage is important, it's certainly a factor, but I think us dorks overrate it, and don't sometimes see the whole picture of what an average consumer sees.
Right now I love my PS4 Pro, but I couldn't make a compelling case for the casual customer. 'Same shit, but maybe a tad smoother, and a bit sharper if you have a 4K tv, which you probably don't'. I don't think Sony making the PS4 Pro a bit more powerful would make a damn difference to it's appeal.
I really shouldn't post in this thread anymore and I definitely should have picked my wording more carefully... You never quite know which sentence a journalist might pick up on and might turn into a saucy headline that might infuriate fans of some platform.
This is the second time already that I took part in some discussion on GAF only to then see something I thought was a somewhat innocent comment (again, calling a platform half-assed definitely wasn't the nicest way of putting things, I know. I'm not a native English speaker and sometimes my wording can come off as a bit rude) to blow up in my face after the press picked up on it. I'm just a dev who loves games and take part in these passionate discussions
I wonder when a multiplat comes out and is available to PS4/Pro, Xbone and Scorpio what will the consumer reaction be. This is because there is an incredibly big install base for PS4 already. How will the average PS4 owner react, go and buy a scorpio to get the best out of the multiplat game or keep to their PS4 and buy the "lesser" version of the multiplat.
I wonder when a multiplat comes out and is available to PS4/Pro, Xbone and Scorpio what will the consumer reaction be. This is because there is an incredibly big install base for PS4 already. How will the average PS4 owner react, go and buy a scorpio to get the best out of the multiplat game or keep to their PS4 and buy the "lesser" version of the multiplat.
PS4 Pro sales kinda tell a bit, only 230k (or around that) in December. People are "loyal" to their brand, if people really cared that much they'd buy PCs. The people who own XB1s and care about better graphics and performance will get a Scorpio. People who own PS4s and care about that will get a PS4Pro. Unless they pull out Zen whichh would offer huge improvements over the Pro, that might change things.
PS4 Pro sales kinda tell a bit, only 230k (or around that) in December. People are "loyal" to their brand, if people really cared that much they'd buy PCs. The people who own XB1s and care about better graphics and performance will get a Scorpio. People who own PS4s and care about that will get a PS4Pro. Unless they pull out Zen whichh would offer huge improvements over the Pro, that might change things.
That is not my point and although there is certainly a factor of brand loyalty to consider, we saw a lot of people going from Xbox360 to PS4.
My point is: will the improved IQ be enough to make the general populace that is buying 2 to 1 PS4/Xbone go out and buy a new console when they will have the same multiplatform games on the lower speced PS4.
I realize that MS could be MS and secure some meaty exclusives, but even so I suspect that MS has to be really aggressive on making this something different from current consoles as - repeating myself - the general buyer will see the same game for all these consoles that sound so similar.
I'm quite curious if this is going to bring the brand back.
I doubt he gives a shit what his reputation is here and I reckon most don't care as long as he keeps making good games. 😂 What the hell is up with all the overreactions?
Having read quite a few of your posts, I'm going to guess you meant exactly what you typed, and it wasn't a matter of something being lost in translation. Your grammar, syntax, and vocabulary all are fairly perfect, along with your use of common American English idioms. You've even got the classic American "sorry not sorry" sorry if I offended anyone apology down pat.
With that said, I don't think you should step back your comment or offer any apologies whatsoever. You espoused an opinion, which anyone is entitled to; you didn't try to pose anything as a fact. Why should you apologize for an opinion?
So you think the upcoming Scorpio is a great product while the Pro was a poor one. Why shouldn't you? I would hope any developer of a game on a single console would believe the same of that console. If a dev didn't think the console/platform they were developing for was the greatest, I'd ask why they weren't developing for the one they did think was the greatest.
The people who should be apologizing are the people in this thread who attacked your character. Attack the opinion, not the person is what I always say.
Going to a school with a good number of international students and helping out in the writing lab sometimes, it's perfectly common for someone to use an idiom properly but not understand the meaning. It's also fairly common for them to have correct grammar in every which way but not understand the meaning entirely because of cultural differences or a misunderstanding of their source from which they heard a particular phrase--and these are students that have lived here for years and speak English every single day.
But yes, I agree with you regardless. I don't think people should be attacking who he is, it's petty and uncalled for.
Ok we know you love Sony and can't stand Microsoft man(woman/kid?). Apparently that includes anyone they work with or that may say something about your precious console. Ease up, lol.
Makes me thankful I can have a PS4/X1/Wii U on my shelf and actually like and enjoy what these companies deliver. You'll also see me criticize AND support them all by applying logic/calm to most situations.
Heck, you even insulted a Halo employee on this forum because he said Taylor Swift makes fake edgy relationship songs. Get a grip .
That is not my point and although there is certainly a factor of brand loyalty to consider, we saw a lot of people going from Xbox360 to PS4.
My point is: will the improved IQ be enough to make the general populace that is buying 2 to 1 PS4/Xbone go out and buy a new console when they will have the same multiplatform games on the lower speced PS4.
I realize that MS could be MS and secure some meaty exclusives, but even so I suspect that MS has to be really aggressive on making this something different from current consoles as - repeating myself - the general buyer will see the same game for all these consoles that sound so similar.
I'm quite curious if this is going to bring the brand back.
It's probably not going to win it back in terms of XB1 v PS4, but with the way they have been going and getting things back to a good standing, it bodes well for them for the next generation of consoles. Problem is, according to that Ori dev, thats what Scorpio is, and if its not, how long will the wait be between the PS5 and a next gen xbox?
Ok we know you love Sony and can't stand Microsoft man(woman/kid?). Apparently that includes anyone they work with or that may say something about your precious console. Ease up, lol.
Makes me thankful I can have a PS4/X1/Wii U on my shelf and actually like and enjoy what these companies deliver. You'll also see me criticize AND support them all by applying logic/calm to most situations.
Heck, you even insulted a Halo employee on this forum because he said Taylor Swift makes fake edgy relationship songs. Get a grip .
I guess you missed the part last page where I said I don't give a fuck which company the comment was the target of
I would still be arguing the same point. Frankie is another dev works for MS that likes to muddy the waters with vague post with no explanation.
So please stop trying to make this some console war bullshit
Scorpio is clearly a next gen console from Microsoft. i think if you were at E3 2016 and saw what some got the chance to see and hear, you would be pretty damn confident in that feeling, contrary to attempted assurances to anyone concerned about what it meant for Xbox One. The only problem people seem to be having is understanding that "next gen" doesn't have to mean exactly the same as what it has meant in years past. It not having exclusives is a tiny price to pay for all the advantages that come with the current direction. One route may offer more visually stunning games, but the other offers the real opportunity for not just better games, full compatibility for all xbox one titles, but I believe it makes things easier on developers. They'll be able to release games quicker and also not have to start over from scratch in terms of userbase.
That's the new strategy going forward; maintain support for all the previous system's games while having a much more powerful system in place that can run those same usually quite impressive games far better than Xbox One can manage.
The hardware jump is obviously going to be there, in all major respects. I don't believe for a single second it's going to have Jaguar. Totally expect Zen. I feel pretty confident in that belief. If it doesn't, so be it, I was wrong, and I move on still excited about Scorpio, although I would love to see them really going for it on this thing.
My definition of a new generation is
*Exclusive games
* A new architecture, even if based on x86.
So if they trotted out with a new CPU and upgraded GPU, etc. that eliminated the possibility that exclusives for the Scorpio could run on the One or One S. This isn't to say that One games wouldn't be backwards compatible with the Scorpio, but that you wouldn't be able to run Halo 6 or Gears 5 because Scorpio is so advanced.
If they are running an overclocked Puma or Jaguar, however, they clearly are trying to maintain some parity with the previous models just as Sony did with the Pro. So a half step, an upgrade, not as I understand it historically, a new gen.
That's why I can't make sense of the Ori dev cherry picking which of the two constitutes a new generation considering history and Microsoft's own messaging.
People are just fighting over semantics at this point, trying to define what a 'generation' is when things are clearly evolving outside of that terminology. His comments can basically be boiled down to 'the PS4 Pro is a smaller iteration since it's basically the same architecture as before with a boost to GPU, while the Scorpio is a much bigger iteration since nearly everything about it's architecture has been changed (ie. 50% more ram, different GPU, no esram, presumably different CPU, etc)'.
This whole definition of 'generation' is a fool's argument. When Scorpio 2 is revealed 4 years from now and it's the same story (big boost but iterative in that it is forwards/backwards compatible) will we still be arguing about what a generation means? How far behind is Nintendo in all this if that is still the framework we are using?
I guess you missed the part last page where I said I don't give a fuck which company the comment was the target of
I would still be arguing the same point. Frankie is another dev works for MS that likes to muddy the waters with vague post with no explanation.
So please stop trying to make this some console war bullshit
6x increase (it's 5x actually, leading to 6 TF) but only to the GPU according to most sources. Which means a resolution bump is pretty much all that's good for (though a fairly big bump).
I'd be more inclined to agree with Thomas if the CPU was proportionally upgraded.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in terms of pure processing power, isn't the move from Xbox 360 to Xbox One not also mostly in the GPU? (and RAM of course, and admittedly more than 5x).
People are just fighting over semantics at this point, trying to define what a 'generation' is when things are clearly evolving outside of that terminology. His comments can basically be boiled down to 'the PS4 Pro is a smaller iteration since it's basically the same architecture as before with a boost to GPU, while the Scorpio is a much bigger iteration since nearly everything about it's architecture has been changed (ie. 50% more ram, different GPU, no esram, presumably different CPU, etc)'.
This whole definition of 'generation' is a fool's argument. When Scorpio 2 is revealed 4 years from now and it's the same story (big boost but iterative in that it is forwards/backwards compatible) will we still be arguing about what a generation means? How far behind is Nintendo in all this if that is still the framework we are using?
I generally agree - but if people are going to post about it I think it is worth them explaining what they mean by "generation" to help stop some of the misunderstanding and cross-talk.
IMHO Scorpio is a significantly larger step up from the Xbone, than the PS4 Pro is from the PS4.
Gfx and arctitecture wise I don't think it will be far off a traditional "generation" step change but on the software side it will maintain compatibility with Xbone and x360....so who knows how we should refer to it?
Major hardware revision and minor hardware revision!?
People are just fighting over semantics at this point, trying to define what a 'generation' is when things are clearly evolving outside of that terminology. His comments can basically be boiled down to 'the PS4 Pro is a smaller iteration since it's basically the same architecture as before with a boost to GPU, while the Scorpio is a much bigger iteration since nearly everything about it's architecture has been changed (ie. 50% more ram, different GPU, no esram, presumably different CPU, etc)'.
This whole definition of 'generation' is a fool's argument. When Scorpio 2 is revealed 4 years from now and it's the same story (big boost but iterative in that it is forwards/backwards compatible) will we still be arguing about what a generation means? How far behind is Nintendo in all this if that is still the framework we are using?
I generally agree - but if people are going to post about it I think it is worth them explaining what they mean by "generation" to help stop some of the misunderstanding and cross-talk.
IMHO Scorpio is a significantly larger step up from the Xbone, than the PS4 Pro is from the PS4.
Gfx and arctitecture wise I don't think it will be far off a traditional "generation" step change but on the software side it will maintain compatibility with Xbone and x360....so who knows how we should refer to it?
Major hardware revision and minor hardware revision!?
A huge portion of the games released in the first 1 years of the Xbox One/PS4 'gen' were also released on PS3/Xbox 360. Scorpio will have similar limitations as the Xbox One did in this regard, so I don't think it's all together that much more different than before.
Likewise, I personally believe we will see Scorpio exclusives (or atleast exclusive features) in about 2 years time, but that is a complete guess.
I'll be pondering some of this.
