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[Synth]

Can we please not pretend that anything "arcade" means "harder"... Arcades are designed to be mostly straight forward and inviting. Yeah, they ramp up the difficulty super high because they wanted to munch quarters... but home consoles alleviated the quarter munching so it's not a very frustrating experience.

Having had both a Saturn and a N64 (actually got the saturn first, my first sega console I owned, had been strictly nintendo since the NES) I can tell you there was nothing "hard" about Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Fighter, or Sega Rally compared to the games for N64 you listed (Hell, Mario Kart is as "arcade-y" as games get... which is why they made it into an arcade game the next generation )

Arcade were designed for that, sure. But they were designed to be straight-forward and inviting to those that were already adept at playing games. They didn't slowly ease you into the games world and mechanics, starring you out in safe areas, and teaching you all the basics over a period of multiple hours. It was a case of "Game Start! Oh you don't know how to play? Too bad.. GAME OVER!".

If you're actually going to try to tell me there was nothing hard about Virtua Fighter in comparison to the popular N64 selections of the time, then I can't understand the viewpoint you're coming from really, I had countless people over to play it during those years, and it always ended up the same way... mash your way up to Lion, and then get held by the AI forever, because it expects you to know what you're doing (and god help you if you got lucky, and moved on to Jeffry). Mario Kart is a relatively slow game, with tracks that are almost all trivial to drive around and has comeback mechanics built into its base system to help anyone who may not be performing well, I don't see how its very comparable at all. Mario Kart GP is a home game placed in the arcade whilst Daytona USA is an arcade game placed in the home.

 

[DungeonO]

Being right didn't help them any. They went through a decade of declining hardware and software sales trying to appeal to those core games, before giving up to target another audience on Wii. And now that the blue ocean audience is gone, Nintendo is having a difficult time getting core gamers to jump back on board.

I'm sure years of bad press didn't help them along the way. Nintendo's only true flaw is that they cannot polish a turd quite like Sony, Sega, or Microsoft. Let's face it, gaming hardware is always overpriced, cheaply produced, and flawed in one way or another, but Nintendo is the only one not making a solid PR effort to sway attention away from their issues. I think the way to do that is to not just get third party support, but to promote it above your own software. I can't imagine Pepsi would sell its products in a store that offers store brand cola and promotes it with 10x the shelf space. I think that applied to Nintendo then, and it applies to them still today.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

If this thread were happening ten or fifteen years ago, I do believe it would be a great deal more even or just more clearly stacked toward the Saturn. The problem is that while N64 standouts are quite impressive, they all have suffered in being very early 3D that doesn't hold up over time so well while Saturn's standouts were representing the culmination of decades of 2D mastery at the very end of its age of dominance, running on the most powerful and the last real sprite 'n playfield graphics processing on console. Saturn may not have had the most accurate and complete versions of many popular arcade games which made the system their first or second destination at home, but it was the best that anyone not interested in paying for the arcade boards or a Neo Geo could do until the turn of the century. By the early 2000s, a lot of Saturn's 'arcade perfect' appeal had started to evaporate because of the leaps taken by emulation on PC of the very same arcade hardware which Saturn was previously best at standing in for when looking at its own home ports. Even with that diminishment of its previous dominance over arcade ports, the system still has an amazing library that is hobbled by the fact that it relied upon Japanese releases to fill it out...something that people who didn't import would be either oblivious to or just couldn't or wouldn't get access to in order to fully appreciate.

 

[Synth]

... Kind of my point?

The person I quoted made it seem like N64 games were pick up and play, where Saturn's arcade heavy games weren't... Even in the arcades though, games were still designed to be simple to grasp. Even fighting games were (you beat the other guy up!) though of course they took skill to master, as with any game.

It's not just that they took skill to master. They took skill to PROGRESS. Playing at the arcades if you weren't already a very proficient gaming would cost you a LOT of money, because the games were designed to get rid of you if you proved unworthy of staying on the machine.

There's a big difference between requiring a level of mastery to speedrun a game, and requiring a similar level of mastery to get the fuck off level 2.

 

[Stephen Stills]

I only had an N64 growing up, I have a lot of nostalgia for it. But the Saturn is clearly a far better machine (if you import).

 

[thewhitehawk]

Castlevania is a bad example.
The difference between SotN and C64 is that they took radically different approaches.
The former is a "standard" but very very good 2D game.

With C64 Konami (Kobe) tried to jump the series to 3D which is a step much more difficult regardless of the hardware.

Why is it a bad example? It's a perfectly good example of what I just said. The games on the Playstation and Saturn felt like refinements of what we previously had, and the new types of games they were trying to make on the Nintendo 64 felt like poorly executed early ones.

 

[sweetdee]

My boyfriend hired a Saturn for 3 days and we had a blast playing Virtua Cop, Daytona and Panzer Dragoon. It was AMAZING to me to be hearing the Daytona song at home! And Panzer was just mind blowing fantasy. I really wanted one! But I wasn't rich and could only buy one system and wanted a Playstation more.

I was just totally uninterested in N64 - cartridges seemed so limiting after experiencing CD soundtracks and the graphics seemed low res to me. Years later I got a translucent orange one as a gift with Mario 64, Goldeneye and Wave-race. I played Mario on and off but I had a Dreamcast and PSX and they had all my attention at that point.

Always wished I had gotten a Saturn. It just seemed exotic and exciting!

 

[KojiKnight]

It's not just that they took skill to master. They took skill to PROGRESS. Playing at the arcades if you weren't already a very proficient gaming would cost you a LOT of money, because the games were designed to get rid of you if you proved unworthy of staying on the machine.

There's a big difference between requiring a level of mastery to speedrun a game, and requiring a similar level of mastery to get the fuck off level 2.

I see we're still going to push the topic at hand to the side (which is Sega Saturn games being less "casual friendly" or more "hard core" because they are arcade-y).

That said, I'll say one more thing about arcade-y titles in general... They don't really require skill, they require repetition to learn the patterns and some good twitchy hands. The reason the "good" people didn't seem to spend as many quarters is because they already spent as much and more than the "baddies".

The ONLY exception to this is the impromptu tournaments that would spring up from arcade fighting games... but playing them single player? Same thing.

 

[Celine]

Tengai Makyou IV is another great Saturn RPG that is overlooked. It also has the greatest world map of any game:

Is a huge pity that some of the best RPG for Saturn were never released in America and Europe:
Grandia, Tengai Makyou the 4th apocalypse, SMT Soul hacker.

 

[Synth]

I see we're still going to push the topic at hand to the side (which is Sega Saturn games being less "casual friendly" or more "hard core" because they are arcade-y).

That said, I'll say one more thing about arcade-y titles in general... They don't really require skill, they require repetition to learn the patterns and some good twitchy hands. The reason the "good" people didn't seem to spend as many quarters is because they already spent as much and more than the "baddies".

The ONLY exception to this is the impromptu tournaments that would spring up from arcade fighting games... but playing them single player? Same thing.

Also known as... SKILL!

skill
noun
1. the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2. competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.
3. a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience: the skill of cabinetmaking.

If a game is more likely to frustrate a new player, it is then less casual friendly. Whilst F-Zero and Wipeout have similar goals, and the premise can be similarly understood, Wipeout demands much more from a new player than F-Zero does in other to feel any sense of accomplishment. This also extends outside of single player games. Call of Duty is more casual friendly than Quake, because the demands made by the game in order for the player to feel successful is much greater in Quake than CoD.

The Saturn's flagship games demanded more from the average player, than Nintendo's that were designed more to ease the player in before presenting them with difficult challenges. As a result, the Saturn is less suited for those that are not already proficient in playing games. I'm not trying to turn this into a bad thing for Nintendo, but it is a difference between the libraries for each machine.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

I had both sytems. I had the best games on each and I spent more time on the Saturn than I did on the N64.

In fairness Sega gave better support to the Saturn in Europe than Nintendo did with the N64.

 

[Walter Matthau]

I'm genuinely surprised.

I thought Saturn and N64 fans would find some sort of comradery.

Instead it turned into a casuals vs. hardcore gamers fight. Both had hardcore and casual games, but you guys are hell bent on being dysfunctional.

You named the thread "Nintendo 64 Vs. Sega Saturn". I agree they are both great, but the people who are taking a side have to come up with a reason for it.

 

[Celine]

Why is it a bad example? It's a perfectly good example of what I just said. The games on the Playstation and Saturn felt like refinements of what we previously had, and the new types of games they were trying to make on the Nintendo 64 felt like poorly executed early ones.

You said:
"Whereas on the Saturn and Playstation 1 it seems like developers were offering the best that modern technology had to offer on the Nintendo 64, despite the superior hardware it felt like they were struggling to meet better results and usually delivered something much worse."

SotN isn't a fantastic game because it was "offering the best that modern technology had to offer" but because as you said it was a refinement of old formulas (and a great one I might add).
C64 is just a merely a good game that don't match the highly regarded CV legacy but the cause isn't that the developers "despite the superior hardware it felt like they were struggling to meet better results".
The cause is that they aimed at a more advanced concept that wasn't fully grasped by most developers at the time.

 

[Jan]

Shining force 3
Shining the holy ark
Shining wisdom
Mystaria
Panzer dragoon and panzer dragoon saga
Burning rangers
Clockwork knight
Street fighter alpha 2
X men children of the atom
Dragon force
Die hard arcade
Virtua fighter 2
Sega rally
Virtua cop 2
Dark savior
Enemy zero
World side soccer
Atlethe kings


Easy for me

 

[Synth]

You named the thread "Nintendo 64 Vs. Sega Saturn". I agree they are both great, but the people who are taking a side have to come up with a reason for it.

Lol yea.. it's a bit weird to expect everyone to sit around and hold hands when the title essentially reads "Your fave Vs. mine".

I don't think it's really a case of people having picked a side and now coming up with reasons for it though. People have preferences, if you give someone two different things and ask which they prefer, an absolutely honest answer will almost never be "neither, I like them both the same".. and this will be for various valid reasons. If we can't sit here and talk about why we have a preference for one over the other, then why does this forum even exist? Should the replies all be along the lines of "They were both awesome so it doesn't matter"? Wouldn't that be a pointless thread?

 

[Celine]

I think the two consoles are very close. The N64 has some top tier, AAA games from Nintendo. Still some of the best ever. Nothing on the Saturn can top Majora's Mast and Super Mario 64.

I think it does become a case of quality vs quanitiy - which is almost ironic considering the N64 outlasted the Saturn. I hold the upper echelon of N64 games to be superior, yet I play Saturn games more often. They have more variety, the controller is sex, and yes I'd argue that the Saturn defeats the N64 in multiplayer. And importantly the Saturn has a lot of arcadey pick-up-and-play games. There are a good amount of RPGs for the long games.

I give the Saturn the win. I simply play it more. But goddamn is the N64 AAA list godlike. Obviously the N64 wins the popularity contest because those AAA games are well known, while many overlook the great Western releases let alone the fabulous Japanese-only games (like Princess Crown) that I play on my modded Saturn.

Segata Sanshiro, my hero. You are not forgotten.

In your one week of Saturn playing, you have experienced almost nothing. That seems to be a problem here, the N64's popularity is too high and people who have some backhanded experience with the Saturn claim to have experienced both when they only put their toes in the water.

Some of us have played many hundreds of hours of both consoles. I find it odd to see people say "I see you're list of Saturn games, but my list of N64 games is far superior" when they have played between 0 and 5 of those Saturn games.

Like I said, I find it a close competition, so even those that say "Saturn no contest" make me scratch my head. But hey, those that have experienced the deep variety of both consoles are gonna be ignoring your opinion if you had it for one week.

Good and reasonable posts.
I'm surprised at the amount of bullshit written in this thread on both sides.

Apparently Enix published a game on the Saturn that involves collecting bugs and talking to dinosaurs. I haven't played it but I'm sure it's the greatest game ever made

Nanatsu Kaze no Shima Monogatari is one of the most beautiful Saturn game ever.

It's comparable roughly to the Wonder Project J series:

SNES game:

N64 game:

 

[andymcc]

That said, I'll say one more thing about arcade-y titles in general... They don't really require skill, they require repetition to learn the patterns and some good twitchy hands. The reason the "good" people didn't seem to spend as many quarters is because they already spent as much and more than the "baddies".

ahahahahahahahaha

 

[Celine]

Shinrei Jusatsushi Tarōmaru (Psychic Killer Taromaru or Spiritual Assassin Taromaru)

Developed by Treasure

Taromaru wasn't developed by Treasure.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

N64. This isn't even close.



Super Mario 64
Mario Kart 64
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Pokemon Stadium
Pokemon Stadium 2
Pokemon Snap
Star Fox 64/Lylat Wars
Super Smash Bros.
Mario Party
Mario Party 2
Pilotwings 64
WaveRace 64
Goldeneye 007
Perfect Dark
Banjo-Kazooie
Banjo-Tooie
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Donkey Kong 64
Diddy Kong Racing
Blast Corps
Snowboard Kids
Snowboard Kids 2
Mischief Makers
Harvest Moon 64
Mystical Ninja
Mystical Ninja 2
Space Station: Silicon Valley

 

[andymcc]

Taromaru wasn't developed by Treasure.

Yeah, it's also a very overrated game whose legacy seems to be defined by it's exorbitant resell price.

 

[GalacticAE]

N64 was trash especially when compared to the Saturn. Just on the controller alone. Ive owned both and I can say Saturn has the superior library. That's just a fact. I don't understand how anyone here hadn't heard of the Saturn during its run either. I grew up reading stuff like gamefan so I guess I was exposed to more of hardcore gaming as a kid before the internet.

 

[nkarafo]

That's just a fact.

Nice. Can you give some sources that prove this fact please?

 

[fvng]

N64. This isn't even close.



Super Mario 64
Mario Kart 64
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Pokemon Stadium
Pokemon Stadium 2
Pokemon Snap
Star Fox 64/Lylat Wars
Super Smash Bros.
Mario Party
Mario Party 2
Pilotwings 64
WaveRace 64
Goldeneye 007
Perfect Dark
Banjo-Kazooie
Banjo-Tooie
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Donkey Kong 64
Diddy Kong Racing
Blast Corps
Snowboard Kids
Snowboard Kids 2
Mischief Makers
Harvest Moon 64
Mystical Ninja
Mystical Ninja 2
Space Station: Silicon Valley

Still more superior software on Saturn, it's like you didn't even bother stepping outside your comfort zone of children's games

 

[Synth]

This isn't even close.

NiGHTS Into Dreams
Burning Rangers
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Street Fighter Alpha 3
X-Men: Children of the Atom
X-Men Vs Street Fighter
Marvel Super Heroes
MSH Vs Street Fighter
Sega Rally
Daytona USA
Shining Force III
Die Hard Trilogy
Shining The Holy Ark
Grandia
Castlevania: SOTN
Tomb Raider
Virtua Fighter 2
Fighting Vipers
Fighters Megamix
Megaman X3
Megaman X4
Exhumed (Powerslave)
Dodonpachi
Radiant Silvergun
Sega Ages (Outrun, Afterburner, Space Harrier)
Sonic Jam
Sonic R
Dark Saviour
Guardian Heroes
Three Dirty Dwarves
Last Bronx
Dead or Alive
Pocket Fighter
King of Fighters '96
King of Fighters '97
Die Hard Arcade
Dragon Force
Elevator Action Returns
Metal Slug
Saturn Bomberman
Street Racer
Virtua Cop
Virtua Cop 2
The House of the Dead
Night Warriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge
Vampire Saviour
Super Puzzle Fighter 2 Turbo

You're right, it isn't close at all... just not in favour of who you thought it was. Also, the next time anyone questions why Nintendo consoles don't see much third-party support... your list will do nicely as an example, lol.

 

[Nemesis121]

N64. This isn't even close.



Super Mario 64
Mario Kart 64
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Pokemon Stadium
Pokemon Stadium 2
Pokemon Snap
Star Fox 64/Lylat Wars
Super Smash Bros.
Mario Party
Mario Party 2
Pilotwings 64
WaveRace 64
Goldeneye 007
Perfect Dark
Banjo-Kazooie
Banjo-Tooie
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Donkey Kong 64
Diddy Kong Racing
Blast Corps
Snowboard Kids
Snowboard Kids 2
Mischief Makers
Harvest Moon 64
Mystical Ninja
Mystical Ninja 2
Space Station: Silicon Valley

Guardian Heroes mop the floor with all those games...

 

[Celine]

There's a old Gamefan interview out there where the director of Grandia explained that their publisher (ESP) released on Saturn first because there were more "core gamers" on that system.

Nah.
You do realize ESP was a consortium between mid/small japanese developers backed by Sega (through CSK).
The main developers behind ESP were Game Arts (which was always in the Sega orbit), Treasure (another dev in the Sega orbit) and Quintet.
Of course ESP released game exclusively on Sega Saturn, only later ported to PS1 because Sega killed the platform when it was still viable in Japan.

With that said I don't doubt that on Saturn there were many gamers who liked fighting games,shooters, Sega arcade games and simulation RPG.

N64 was trash especially when compared to the Saturn. Just on the controller alone. Ive owned both and I can say Saturn has the superior library. That's just a fact. I don't understand how anyone here hadn't heard of the Saturn during its run either. I grew up reading stuff like gamefan so I guess I was exposed to more of hardcore gaming as a kid before the internet.

There were roughly 2 millions Saturn sold in America and roughly 1 million in Europe.
Also more or less after 1996 Saturn died off in the west (yes, I know that Official Sega Saturn Magazine lasted until 1998 in UK but you know what I mean) while the generation lasted until 2000/2001 circa.

So if a kid didn't follow specialized magazines or began to approach videogames seriously (seriously enough to be informed) after 1996 there is a good chance that he never knew about the system especially because as a kid the first way through which you know new systems is thanks to your friends but if no one owns it ...

 

[-Setsuna-]

I have 18 games on N64 and more than 70 on Saturn, so my preference is quite clear.

SEGA was at its best during those years.

 

[andymcc]

With that said I don't doubt that on Saturn there were many gamers who liked fighting games,shooters, Sega arcade games and simulation RPG.

Not to mention a huge amount of VN games that were usually uncensored. I could imagine those were a selling point for PC-Engine gamers that wanted those sorts of games on a console.

 

[nkarafo]

children's games

Another awesome generalization. Its becoming harder and harder to continue this discussion without trolling and being immature.

 

[LurkerPrime]

The greatest game of all time - Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber - released on the N64.

I don't think I actually have a choice when I say, "I prefer the Nintendo 64."

 

[fvng]

The SNES had amazing third support In my eyes and Nintendo didn't really have great creative and diverse third party support again until the Wii, which is why I was sad about being an N64 owner. It was dark times as a fan of Nintendo.

Saturn is partially responsible for giving me refined hardcore gaming tastes and if I stuck it out with Nintendo I would probably think casual games like Mario Party were actually good.

The greatest game of all time - Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber - released on the N64.

I don't think I actually have a choice when I say, "I prefer the Nintendo 64."

There were prettier ogre battle games on PS1 and SNES. Plenty of great SRPGs on Saturn as well

 

[andymcc]

Another awesome generalization. Its becoming harder and harder to continue this discussion without trolling and being immature.

you know, I love Nintendo's output on N64 but i think that's sort of the perception of the system, which really isn't dramatically different than nintendo now i guess.

anecdotal i know, but i worked at eb games near the end of the N64's lifespan and i can't recall the amount of times i would hear the n64 described as a "kiddy system". looking at nintendo's titles such as Mario Party, the Rare platformers, Pokemon titles, etc. it's really easy to understand where those unfamiliar with the mechanics of some of the titles were coming from.

 

[wazoo]

Also, the next time anyone questions why Nintendo consoles don't see much third-party support... your list will do nicely as an example, lol.

More third parties in your list,that is right, but also many companies that were only working for Sega at that time like Appaloosa Interactive or GameArts or working design.

 

[Synth]

if I stuck it out with Nintendo I would probably think casual games like Mario Party were actually good.

oooooo... now this is going a bit far.

More third parties in your list,that is right, but also many companies that were only working for Sega at that time like Appaloosa Interactive or GameArts or working design.

True, but this still applies to other Nintendo consoles since. Third-parties tend to get shafted because the userbase tends to value Nintendo published games over all others... so why bother?

 

[fvng]

oooooo... now this is going a bit far.

I stand by that man, I'm a grown man and the game mechanics of those mini games make me question why video games are how I choose to spend my free time

Can a brother get a deeper experience please?

 

[Celine]

Not to mention a huge amount of VN games that were usually uncensored. I could imagine those were a selling point for PC-Engine gamers that wanted those sorts of games on a console.

The Nonomura Hospital game on Saturn was a big hit (more than 200K sold if I remember right)

 

[ocean]

Nintendo 64 had a rather limited library, but the amount of truly solid titles was not that bad. I mean let's go for the obvious: Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, Super Smash Bros., Zelda: Ocarina of Time, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Banjo Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Goldeneye...

I got some Saturn playing time with a neighbor but it always seemed somehow less modern than the N64 did. Obviously, this was a child's perception that held no regard for the actual technical specificities behind each system.

 

[fvng]

Another awesome generalization. Its becoming harder and harder to continue this discussion without trolling and being immature.

Yes because all the games on that list are rated M for mature right? Let's not shit ourselves.

 

[Synth]

I stand by that man, I'm a grown man and the game mechanics of those mini games make me question why video games are how I choose to spend my free time

I loved Mario Party back in the day. I have a load of brothers so these games were great time killers. Playing against them at something like Virtual On never, ever worked out lol. I don't think games are worse simply for being somewhat random (Uno on 360 was awesome too).

Except Mario Kart though... that shit can fuck off. Pretending to be about racing skill, until someone blue shells you, or uses lighting to make you repeat half the damn course. If you want to be a dice-roller game, at least be honest about it!

 

[nkarafo]

it's really easy to understand where those unfamiliar with the mechanics of some of the titles were coming from.

Yes but i expected something better from GAF members.

Yes because all the games on that list are rated M for mature right? Let's not shit ourselves.

I can see a few kiddie ones but most are not. No, they are no M-rated of course (except Conker) but most of them are not kiddie either. Not more than Nights, Astal, Sonic-R, etc at least

Super Mario 64
Mario Kart 64
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Pokemon Stadium
Pokemon Stadium 2
Pokemon Snap
Star Fox 64/Lylat Wars
Super Smash Bros.
Mario Party
Mario Party 2
Pilotwings 64
WaveRace 64
Goldeneye 007
Perfect Dark
Banjo-Kazooie
Banjo-Tooie
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Donkey Kong 64
Diddy Kong Racing
Blast Corps
Snowboard Kids
Snowboard Kids 2
Mischief Makers
Harvest Moon 64
Mystical Ninja
Mystical Ninja 2
Space Station: Silicon Valley

I don't suppose you think the bolded ones are games for kids? Right?

 

[andymcc]

The Nonomura Hospital game on Saturn was a big hit (more than 200K sold if I remember right)

had to look this one up...

didn't the elf games in general make a killing on the Saturn? they jumped to Saturn after PC-FX, right?

Yes but i expected something better from GAF members.

the overall dismissiveness of saturn's library with comments like "i'd rather have mario 64 and zelda over, uh, whatever the saturn has" or "no one had a saturn when i was a kid, why should i care" reeks of greater, more willful ignorance imho.

 

[djtiesto]

I like RPGs, shmups, and fighting games... and there was a total dearth of those genres on the N64. I'd take an import Saturn over N64 any day of the week. Plus, 2D >>> blurry 3D.

 

[sörine]

Japanese Saturn > Nintendo 64 > American Saturn

 

[sniperpon]

3DO. Er, sorry, between these two, N64 at the time; I knew Saturn owners back then, and they felt like the kid who got locked out of the house, none of the cool third party games came their way. N64 at least had the first-party Nintendo games.

The Saturn is a neater collector system now though imo; N64 games all look the same, with that super primitive texture filtering... Saturn has a lot of "cult classic"-type games to me, like Shining the Holy Ark, Guardian Heroes, Dragon Force, Sonic Jam, etc.

 

[andymcc]

Japanese Saturn > Nintendo 64 > American Saturn

i can agree w/ this.

 

[fvng]

I loved Mario Party back in the day. I have a load of brothers so these games were great time killers. Playing against them at something like Virtual On never, ever worked out lol. I don't think games are worse simply for being somewhat random (Uno on 360 was awesome too).

Except Mario Kart though... that shit can fuck off. Pretending to be about racing skill, until someone blue shells you, or uses lighting to make you repeat half the damn course. If you want to be a dice-roller game, at least be honest about it!

As a teenager In those days they didn't quite scratch the itch for me and they felt like empty experiences. I played some of the recent Mario Party games and I don't understand how anyone can consider that a gem in a library especially when held up against games like guardian heroes or dragon force

 

[Cipherr]

I still own both, and my systems still work. Saturn was very underrated. Both consoles house some of my favorites of all time, but the N64 very decisively takes this.



Had the Saturn lived a little longer or gotten more support it really could have been different. NiGHTs, Shining, Guardian Heroes, Baku Baku Animal, Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter, Daytona.. I mean it had an incredible lineup. But OOT, MK64, DKR, GE007, No Mercy, Ogre Battle, M64, Resident Evil 2, Smash Bros, I mean damn.. In order to make this fight close, you would have to disqualify all first/second party N64 titles for some weird reason. Otherwise its a landslide. Throw the PS1 in and things get interesting and the PS1 likely wins overall rather easily, but the N64 was better overall than the Saturn.

The market voted with their wallets, and they were right for that entire gen. Each console finished that gen in the 'correct' place.

Guardian Heroes mop the floor with all those games...

I am the hugest Guardian Heroes fan on this planet. I adore the game, revere it even. I have an ungodly amount of hours logged on that game, and have had to buy multiple copies (overpriced) over the years on Ebay to replace unfunctional discs, and even I disagree with you here. Games like OOT are in the running for best games of all TIME. To say GH mops everything on that list is outright absurd to the point that I question whether or not you actually played them.

GH is one of the best games of that generation, and even of the following generation IMO. I love it. But its not enough to carry the Saturns library over the N64's.

 

[wazoo]

I like RPGs, shmups, and fighting games... and there was a total dearth of those genres on the N64. I'd take an import Saturn over N64 any day of the week. Plus, 2D >>> blurry 3D.

That is right nowadays, but at that time, 3D was not blurry, it was new and exciting.

Look at this video, 2D will never get old, but for the inexperienced, in the 90s, it looks no different for most of the games than the continuation of SNES or megadrive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwOv61e8kqA

 

[Synth]

As a teenager In those days they didn't quite scratch the itch for me and they felt like empty experiences. I played some of the recent Mario Party games and I don't understand how anyone can consider that a gem in a library especially when held up against games like guardian heroes or dragon force

The last one I tried was one of the Gamecube ones, and we hated it (I think we only played it once before selling it). I'm not sure if that was because they were never any good to begin with, but we put it down to franchise fatigue. The mini-games were borrowing from the templates of previous entries, and so they were far less amusing this time around. But initially though? fuck yea, lol

 

[fvng]

I have not seen anyone mention princess crown but add that to the list of Saturn games that embarasses the majority of the N64 library

It's basically the grandfather of all Vanillware games