it's not even close to being a favorite saturn game for me anyways.
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Nintendo 64 Vs. Sega Saturn
- Thread starter jeremy1456
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it's not even close to being a favorite saturn game for me anyways.
lol, you made me check:
Nonomura sold 327K (19° best selling game on Saturn in Japan)
Kakyuusei sold 253K
YuNo sold 139K
I'm not sure any third-party supported seriously the PC-FX, what a disgrace of a system.
Dragon Knight IV on PC-FX was ported by Nec Avenue.
nkarafo
Member
Just a question.... is this more or less "kiddie" than, say, Ocarina of Time?
fvng
Member
Substantially less. Art direction is not what defines something as kiddy to me
Judging by your posts it seems you did not bother with imports, which means you were only exposed to a tiny fraction of Saturn's library. I'm confident you would revise that statement if you had more exposure to import games
Also the N64 version of RE2 was a punch line to a bad joke compared to the PS2 version. I've never heard anyone cite that version as a plus for the N64
It's worth mentioning that the gaming demographic was very different in the 90's than it is today. By our standards today, the game industry back then was for kids, because the majority were actually kids. It was that chunk of gamers that became the adult gamers of this generation.
nkarafo
Member
Exactly. Thank you.
fvng
Member
I never said otherwise, but go ahead and pat yourself on the back
This is so true, I guess this is why the Saturn appealed to me as a teenager back then and why N64 alienated me
You aren't really making any point here. I have played many imports for the Saturn. Substantially more in the more than decade since the system was relevant. If you have an actual explanation, offer it, but don't hide behind Imports that have long since been playable in many different ways since that gen. You are just flat out wrong to try and handwave some of the greatest games of all time and put GH on top of them. Period.....
And yes, multiplats do count. The likes of which N64 was fortunate to receive and the Saturn did not. This absolutely matters when comparing the libraries of two consoles. The RE2 PS1 version was superior, but the N64 one was more than enjoyable also. It was one of the greatest games of that Generation, and its Saturn version never materialized. As much as I love Sega and the Saturn, thats a BAD thing in its life in comparison to other platforms of that gen.
nkarafo
Member
But it seems to me that you reduce many N64 games as kids games based on their art direction. Because i don't see any other element that says these games are for kids only.
fvng
Member
I never reduced them to kids games because of their art direction. You probably thought that was the reason why I called them kid's games though, but it would have been easier to ask me why than to assume.
nkarafo
Member
I will ignore games like Conker, Goldeneye etc since you obviously ignored them too when you made that comment but if you want to explain why you think Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask are games for kids please do so. Because i played them when i was 17 years old and i enjoyed them immensly. Even more than, say, Shadow Man or Turok. I want to know what's wrong with me.
fvng
Member
Your logic is full of holes. Since multiplatform games is such a strength, what were n64's multiplatform games besides RE2? I'm awaiting a laundry list of multiplatform games to support your assertion that n64 was some kind of haven for multiplatform releases.
And wait, why is RE2 64 more enjoyable than the PS1 version? Please explain that.
Saturn compensated for its minimal multiplatform games with its incredibly strong library of excellent exclusives (both first and third party).
The fact that you only mentioned some of the few western localized Saturn games in your list of "Saturn's Strengths" I had to make an educated guess that you were only exposed to domestically released games. The fact that your Saturn list omitted so many excellent Saturn games is disingenuous.
I never said OOT or MM were kids games, once again putting words in my mouth. Le sigh. Please quote me on the post where I said that.
Absolutely nothing, you played and enjoyed some good games.
This talk of childrens games is pretty stupid, and stinks of the same old kiddy Nintendo bullshit. There are good games and with a pretty decent variety, who cares what the rating is.
fvng
Member
Pretty much this thread in a nutshell
nkarafo
Member
I'll help him.
Turok
Turok 2
Duke Nukem 64
F-1 World Grand Prix
Forsaken 64
Quake
Quake 2
Space Station Silicon Valley
Star Wars - Rogue Squadron
Wipeout (although i'm not sure if that counts)
Earthworm Jim 3D
Micro Machines 64 Turbo
Ready 2 Rumble Boxing
Rayman 2 - The Great Escape
Resident Evil 2
Re-Volt
Shadow Man
Star Wars Episode I - Racer
Toy Story 2
Vigilante 8
V-Rally
007 - The World is Not Enough
Hydro Thunder
Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine
Mortal Kombat 4
RR64 - Ridge Racer 64
Star Wars Episode I - Battle for Naboo
StarCraft 64
Worms - Armageddon
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
There are many more of course but lets say these are the better ones IMO.
fvng
Member
This is why I think quality exclusives are more important than third party multiplatform games, because you could not pay me enough to play 95% of that list.
Also Turok did not become a multiplatform series until way later, not that it matters since those turok64 games were abysmal
nkarafo
Member
You asked for multiplatform games list. There is already a list with many exclusives.
That's your opinion. Either way these games were too much for the Saturn, technically.
Astro Monster
Banned
Outside of the Sega arcade ports and a few others, I can't even think of many exclusive Saturn games that I remember. And I had one for years as my main machine. And most of the multiplats were crap ports of PSX games.
This is probably why the machine has kind of been lost in history for most people.
This is probably why the machine has kind of been lost in history for most people.
Every japanese third-party publisher outside Konami and Hudson supported very little the N64 (and a few didn't supported the system at all).
When that happens there is only one reason:
The N64 wasn't deemed a financially viable system for Japan.
They all thought they would earn more money by investing in more games for PS1 than by investing in new games for N64.
The japanese market in the '90s was vital for japanese publishers and by 1997 it was seized by PS1.
EDIT:
BTW Capcom early on was developing a 3D Ghost 'n Ghoul game for N64 inspired by Mario 64, too bad the project was cancelled.
I am on the other hand not one of Guardian Heroes' hugest fans (SoR2 > Guardian Heroes FOREVER, lol), however I can still see why someone may say this. Put simply, I don't like Zelda games, I played many and finished none as I always become bored of them before the end. As a result it doesn't take that much for me to place a great game over OoT. I definitely wouldn't put Guardian Heroes over Mario 64 though... but then I would put NiGHTS Into Dreams at around the same level...
I would however place Panzer Dragoon Zwei over pretty much the entire N64 library singlehandedly. I mean, look/listen to this!. This was actually the first moment in a game that I ever recorded. I taped it on VHS for my future self just in case I couldn't have a Saturn anymore lol. I hadn't considered the possibilities of emulation or the internet at the time.
The only other game I give even close to as much of a shit about is the PS1 version of Wipeout 2097. Which is still flawless today.
I don't agree with the idea that the N64 was better supported in terms of multiplatform games. Even when it comes to Resident Evil, you have to ignore the fact that the Saturn received a port of the original (an actual, competent port at that). To claim the N64 saw better 3rd party support you have to start ignoring all sorts of games that the Saturn saw, and it didn't (Tomb Raider, Exhumend, Alien Trilogy, Die Hard Trilogy, Street Fighter Alpha etc). The N64 was far more hamstrung in this regard until the very last moment of the Saturn's life where Sega cut the legs from under it... and even then the notable N64 ports could probably be counted on your fingers.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Well I got an N64 in '99, just following arguably its best year in '98 w/ Ocarina and BK and the such like. This was also after my PS1 broke (and started a precedent of Sony consoles dying on my just as I am really getting into them, lol). I was a kid then so obviously even some of the bad stuff impressed me, but for that age I remember getting a lot of great games. M64, BK, Iggy's Wreckin' Balls (it's fun), even KI Gold was decent. It helped to have mags like Game Fan and EGM around too.
The first time I ever saw a Saturn in public was in the jelwery section of a Roses-like store. I was probably either eight or nine, and it was before I got a PS1. I actually thought that was humorous and someone made a stocking mistake; it wouldn't be until years later where I'd learn about the system and know that it was probably placed there in sheer desperation to get it the fuck out of the store. I don't even think I recognized it as a Sega console at first, b/c I couldn't imagine a Sega system not being in the big gaming section. It just seemed pathetic in comparison to the Genesis.
Today, if I had to pick between the two systems based solely on what I've played, I'd have to pick the N64. Mario 64 may be rough in some areas but it's still a fantastic game. Mischief Makers is very original and has a neat story. Stuff like Goemon and Silicon Valley are also quite original, and also eccentrically weird. And so forth. I like 3D platformers a lot and there's no arguing the N64 dominated that genre in its gen. And FWIW, even the cheese like Cruis'n gets a soft spot in my heart.
But that isn't a fair choice, because you see, I've yet to really play any Saturn games, and the ones I have are the arcade versions of them, so technically I don't count them towards the Saturn b/c usually the arcade version is superior. What I will say, is that from what I've seen, I think theoretically the Saturn would beat the N64 for me, but I won't know until I play its exclusives.
The one thing about Saturn that maybe hurts it is that a lot of its best games are arcade ports, so it becomes difficult for me to use them against something like FFVII or SM64 when I know there's a definitive version on a different platform, and to that degree Dreamcast holds out better. But there are still quite a lot of true Saturn exclusives that I feel can hold up to the N64's (and PS1's) best.
I just need to play them to verify that feeling
Maybe the sequels, yeah, but the 1st one is generally considered as pretty good and one of the better FPSs of that gen.
The first time I ever saw a Saturn in public was in the jelwery section of a Roses-like store. I was probably either eight or nine, and it was before I got a PS1. I actually thought that was humorous and someone made a stocking mistake; it wouldn't be until years later where I'd learn about the system and know that it was probably placed there in sheer desperation to get it the fuck out of the store. I don't even think I recognized it as a Sega console at first, b/c I couldn't imagine a Sega system not being in the big gaming section. It just seemed pathetic in comparison to the Genesis.
Today, if I had to pick between the two systems based solely on what I've played, I'd have to pick the N64. Mario 64 may be rough in some areas but it's still a fantastic game. Mischief Makers is very original and has a neat story. Stuff like Goemon and Silicon Valley are also quite original, and also eccentrically weird. And so forth. I like 3D platformers a lot and there's no arguing the N64 dominated that genre in its gen. And FWIW, even the cheese like Cruis'n gets a soft spot in my heart.
But that isn't a fair choice, because you see, I've yet to really play any Saturn games, and the ones I have are the arcade versions of them, so technically I don't count them towards the Saturn b/c usually the arcade version is superior. What I will say, is that from what I've seen, I think theoretically the Saturn would beat the N64 for me, but I won't know until I play its exclusives.
The one thing about Saturn that maybe hurts it is that a lot of its best games are arcade ports, so it becomes difficult for me to use them against something like FFVII or SM64 when I know there's a definitive version on a different platform, and to that degree Dreamcast holds out better. But there are still quite a lot of true Saturn exclusives that I feel can hold up to the N64's (and PS1's) best.
I just need to play them to verify that feeling
Maybe the sequels, yeah, but the 1st one is generally considered as pretty good and one of the better FPSs of that gen.
fvng
Member
This is not a hardware debate thread, but your attempt at "this is 2 much for the saturn 2 handle!" provided a decent ironic chuckle.
The Saturn was designed to be a 2D beast not a 3D one. If anything the Saturn lucked out not getting a Turok game. Incidentally the severe lack of beautiful 2D games on the n64 is another problem of mine with that system but that's another can of worms. (Yes Bangai-o and M.Makers were quality but, they were in the severe minority, that can't even be debated)
I am not impressed with the exclusive or multiplatform list (especially the latter)
Indeed. To me apart from the high profile platformers, Starfox 64, Mario Kart 64 and Ogre Battle 64, the N64 is total garbage.
Saturn has a lot of great gems in a variety of genres. Many of the great games stayed in Japan but the saturn has a sweet library.
I speak as someone who only dabbled into emulation of these systems since about a year ago, I only had a playstation growing up and I didn't even know the N64 or Gamecube existed, in my young mind Nintendo had the SNES and then only did handhelds until the wii came out. I never saw a gamecube in stores during the ps2 era either..
I had no idea the saturn existed until about 2-3 years ago too, I thought it had jumped from the Mega Drive to the Dreamcast and the Dreamcast was awesome.
Dark Octave
Banned
Sony had dozens of great games because they took all of Nintendo and Sega's.
fvng
Member
More like they migrated over to Sony. Sony just did a great job of making the PS an attractive platform to develop and publish for
I bought Turok at launch and was disappointed and disgusted.
Acclaim had always sucked in the nes and snes era, but after Turok I never fucked with another Acclaim game again. Shame on me.
BigDaddyFatSack
Banned
Never knew what Saturn was until my friend showed me Daytona USA and Virtua Fighter. The system was good at reproducing Sega arcade games. The thought of being able to play arcade games from the comfort of your home enticed me. Until I saw Mario 64 on Next-Generation magazine. Sega Saturn had such a small spotlight by the time I found out about it, stores were desperately getting rid of them by bundling it with free games like Virtua Cop, Daytona USA, etc... When I was asked by my father which system I wanted for x-mas, I chose N64 over Sega Saturn and PSX. Why? Because of Mario Kart 64, Mario 64, Star Wars, etc... It also had the best graphics.
So true, sadly betting on 2D gaming in those years was a deadly mistake by Sega.
Also every gaffer who cites Wave Race in this thread is a good gamer.
2D has aged very well, 3D of that ages not so much, ps1 is even worse in that respect. n64 was huge at that time and its games were top rated, Zelda, and the sports games 1080, wave race, you could not find better even in the arcades.
I can not think you were anot aware of the N64, it sold 32M units, and you knew about the dreamcast ...
SirUltimos
Member
If I lived in Japan I'd say the Saturn without any hesitation. Living in North America, though, things are a bit more complicated.
If you asked me back when both systems were in their prime I'd say N64. At the time I was really into the type of games that the N64 excelled at (3D platformers, primarily) and I wasn't a big fan of the the genres the Saturn excelled at. The Saturn was very heavy on arcade ports and arcade style games (SHMUPS, fighters, arcade racers) and I was not on board with that kind of thing.
If you ask me NOW, though, I have a much higher opinion of the Saturn. I now really like the arcade style games which gives me a much better appreciation of the Saturn's library (and every Sega console, really) than I had back in the day.
However, I also think the best games on the N64 are far better than the best games on the Saturn (at least for their respective genres), and for that reason I think I still have to say the N64.
If you asked me back when both systems were in their prime I'd say N64. At the time I was really into the type of games that the N64 excelled at (3D platformers, primarily) and I wasn't a big fan of the the genres the Saturn excelled at. The Saturn was very heavy on arcade ports and arcade style games (SHMUPS, fighters, arcade racers) and I was not on board with that kind of thing.
If you ask me NOW, though, I have a much higher opinion of the Saturn. I now really like the arcade style games which gives me a much better appreciation of the Saturn's library (and every Sega console, really) than I had back in the day.
However, I also think the best games on the N64 are far better than the best games on the Saturn (at least for their respective genres), and for that reason I think I still have to say the N64.
It was more a greedy mistake. They wanted to get money from model 3 games in the arcade when people would buy 2d games and subpar model 2 ports on the saturn.
With the DC, they were more clever with parity, but it was too late.
I had both of them and ultimately was somewhat disappointed in both. N64 had a few games that were mind blowing, Mario 64 is still my favorite game of the series(galaxy comes close) but I wasn't into the FPS scene on there because I had a PC also. Why play Goldeneye when I had quake and unreal? At least that was how I felt then.
The Saturn had a near perfect street fighter alpha port, which probably got play than anything else. It was still weak unless you counted imports. I probably spent more time with it than my N64 but it was no playstation.
The Saturn had a near perfect street fighter alpha port, which probably got play than anything else. It was still weak unless you counted imports. I probably spent more time with it than my N64 but it was no playstation.
Depends on where he lived. Most of those 32M units were sold in the US. The Dreamcast comment is a bit odd though. I don't think that sold particularly well anywhere.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Yep, and in the end it was the arcade (ironically) that killed Sega as a hardware manufacturer, not Saturn.
Not saying Saturn didn't contribute to that, but had arcades stayed popular or picked up steam there'd of been a much different Dreamcast, one that would've had DVD and been more powerful too, and not have gotten crushed by PS2.
And to people who say arcades didn't help sink Sega, just look no further than what they did for stuff like F355 Challenge and there's your answer. Technical achievement, money-grabbing failure
fvng
Member
Yep, and in the end it was the arcade (ironically) that killed Sega as a hardware manufacturer, not Saturn.
Not saying Saturn didn't contribute to that, but had arcades stayed popular or picked up steam there'd of been a much different Dreamcast, one that would've had DVD and been more powerful too, and not have gotten crushed by PS2.
And to people who say arcades didn't help sink Sega, just look no further than what they did for stuff like F355 Challenge and there's your answer. Technical achievement, money-grabbing failure
The really easy piracy didn't help the DC much either. Part of why I became staunchly anti piracy over the years
lmao how do you know about battle garegga but not about tate? it was standard for home console verts even then.
Banjo Tango
Member
Even though I was the "guy with the Saturn" among my friends (with a ram expansion cart and imports!), I still have to give it to N64 for being more influential and having the better titles.
Glad to see Micro Machines making these lists, 8 player was amazing!
Glad to see Micro Machines making these lists, 8 player was amazing!
Sales don't matter in this thread but I like so much talking about VG history.
While PS1 definitely ate into Saturn sales, Saturn could never ever dream up to become what PS1 was.
What Sony brought to the table with PS1 was unattainable by traditional VG companies like Nintendo and Sega.
They basically designed a powerful system which was cost effective and which production cost would easily decrease over time (the exact opposite of what Sega did with the Saturn).
Because they didn't have (almost) any first party support they did everything they could to attract third party developers (something Sega and especially Nintendo would never do because for them third-party developers were rivals) building easy to use tools, eventually paying/asking for ports if they were exclusive to other platforms and marketing other companies games (Final Fantasy VII is a good example), buying exclusives or renowned game studios.
Sony also could leverage the assets they had in other industry to marketing the PS1 and relatively games more effectively and to penetrate the european markets which until then were considered second tiers compared to the US and Japan.
All of this was possible because Sony was a far bigger company than Nintendo and Sega and could easily outspend them (yes, even the rich Nintendo).
Sega on the other hand was the little fish of the big three.
All this factors contributed to PS1 huge success and were alien to the Saturn.
Without the PS1, Saturn sales would have been better however it would have been overall a weaker proposition even compared the PS1 only.
And we all (should) know how strong the N64 launch was in 1996 and how until then PS1 (and Saturn) hardware sales weren't very strong as would happen only later on.
Hope you aren't suggesting the Saturn should have aimed for parity with Model 3
That is pretty hardcore, I doublt most people buying the saturn did put their TV upside down !
most people wouldn't care about losing some of the screen when playing horizontal. but tate is very common among people who play shmups.
Hope you aren't suggesting the Saturn should have aimed for parity with Model 3
What I said is that they were the company with the most experience in 3D, and probably the arcade division was quite jaleous of losing its prerogatives.
What Sony achieved, they should have tried to do the same. It seems until the last minute, saturn was not designed for 3D and the last minute addition of processor was a counter move against Sony. What did they think when they designed the saturn as a 2D mainly powerhouse (and using quads in 3D ...).
in 94, the were not poor, they were opening game center everywhere and the genesis was selling well in the west. To me they wanted to keep the status quo with 3D mainly in the arcades, and Sony disturbed all of that.
SirUltimos
Member
The Saturn gaining it's 3D capabilities is a pretty funny story. Legend has it is that the reason the Playstation's 3D capabilities were so good was that people within Sony saw what Sega was doing with Virtua Fighter and they demanded their console be able to do something like it. So then they made the Dinosaur demo and once Sega saw that they knew they'd have to include 3D in the Saturn.
Oh, I definitely understand the dynamics of why this scenario couldn't have happened, it's obvious that in many ways the Saturn library even benefitted from Sony's efforts (as it was the more applicable of the others to port towards). I'm just trying to create a fantasy setting where the games line up of both was identical. So the Saturn would still have Tomb Raider, Die Hard Trilogy, Street Fighter, Destuction Derby, Toshinden and Wipeout, along with all Sega's offerings. The N64 would also still have all its games... and nobody gets Final Fantasy VII, lol. I just feel that when taken in isolation the Saturn's lineup was significantly stronger than that of the N64... but many people don't consider half of its library because they instead bought a PlayStation for those games. It's like if we look at the PS4 and Xbox One today, and imagine that the PS4 doesn't exist and that all the games they currently share were actually Xbox One exclusives... the line up would be viewed very differently to how it tends to be today.
Hope you aren't suggesting the Saturn should have aimed for parity with Model 3
I remember once going into an independent games store, and purchasing a used copy of Virtua Fighter 2 to replace my previous scratched one. The guy behind the counter was like "You sure you don't want Virtua Fighter 3 instead?".. I was all "da fuck?". He then told that there was to be an expansion for the Saturn named 'Saturn B' that would enable it to run Model 3 games, and VF3 was to be a launch title. And that it needed to be imported and would cost £300.
It's probably a good thing I didn't have £300 just laying about that day, else I probably would have gotten fleeced pretty hard, lol.
still woulda had a better library than 32X
Oh, now I understand what you were saying and partly agree too.
Sega had the most experience in 3D but they always designed costly boards, I think the management was scared of the potential losses they would have incurred by releasing a console with strong 3d graphics.
I think they didn't believed Sony would design such a powerful system at first.
It was 1993 and the best the console market offered at the time was the 3DO (quads and all).
Sony had at best 2,68 games as good as the "like three good games" N64 had.
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