Those buttons are meant to be physical controls if I understood the mock up correctly.
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Nintendo To Use Sharp Free Form Displays For Next Handheld? (Screens Of Prototypes)
- Thread starter KingJ2002
- Start date
Candescence
Member
I would prefer a two-screen setup, but with a wide-enough screen and good spacial design, I can see this sort of thing working. Those mockups are damn sexy, and I love the idea of button labels on the screen to indicate what different buttons do for quick reference.
Seriously, I don't think any of you guys would really object if the device had the width of a Vita and kept all the important stuff where a regular screen would normally go.
Also, for those slow on the uptake: the mockups are using traditional, physical buttons.
Seriously, I don't think any of you guys would really object if the device had the width of a Vita and kept all the important stuff where a regular screen would normally go.
Also, for those slow on the uptake: the mockups are using traditional, physical buttons.
You lose absolutely zero display real estate compared to say, the 3DS XL or Vita though, assuming it's wider than 16:9. In tablet and phone games you generally obstruct the normal areas of action, not to mention how awful touch buttons are anyway rendering most traditional games unplayable at best.
The fact that the screen has holes in it, has physical buttons and isn't a rectangle definitely *is* a radical idea. Probably one that won't happen anyway for cost and battery reasons more than anything.
I know. Still, you're covering part of the screen with your thumbs, even if it's not active gameplay area.
People already hate glossy material because of the smudge your fingers cause when they get on it, it's even worse when you're touching an actual screen.
openrob
Member
Orniletter
Banned
Those mock ups are a terrible waste of pixels.
You wouldn't be able to focus on the area thats literally hidden behind your fat thumbs. Nintendo should rather cram everything in a smaller area to end up with a higher ppi than... waste ressources on some stuff you can't even notice . It's just a dumb idea.
You wouldn't be able to focus on the area thats literally hidden behind your fat thumbs. Nintendo should rather cram everything in a smaller area to end up with a higher ppi than... waste ressources on some stuff you can't even notice . It's just a dumb idea.
Mr. Pointy
Member
I think that mockup would work pretty well at 2.35:1. Buttons aside, I've played faster paced games like shooters on smartphones, and they never quite work because your thumbs cover chunks of useful visual real estate. A wide ratio would allow a wider FOV.
The main thing I'd be concerned about it is what would happen when you drop it. The whole face being glass would be one hell of a scratch/smudge/crack magnet. But parents give their toddlers tablets and smartphones all the time, and there's always 3rd-party hard cases and screen protectors.
The main thing I'd be concerned about it is what would happen when you drop it. The whole face being glass would be one hell of a scratch/smudge/crack magnet. But parents give their toddlers tablets and smartphones all the time, and there's always 3rd-party hard cases and screen protectors.
So we have the following:
-Pricier screen which raises the overall cost and then the price. Other components might be cut to enable that screen.
-Part of the screen is not visible, which hinders gameplay and wastes resources on rendering additional pixels. A wider format would actually worsen the latter problem.
+Looks arguably cool to some people.
+Some visible cues for buttons are possible which might be helpful.
I really don't understand why some people think this is such a great idea given the facts. Sure, having some visual feedback on the controls is cool but is it worth the price? Heck, make the buttons mini displays like the Optimus keyboard, that might be even cheaper.
As people already pointed out, we already have something similar on mobile devices without the physical buttons though. It is not like those visible cues added much to the experience.
Same thing happened when people found out the 2DS actually only had one screen and wanted that to be an handheld design even though all the display tech goes for widescreen for an obvious reason (field of view).
I would know a lot of the bill of materials was wasted on a gimmicky screen instead of a better SoC or more RAM or a lower price, which would make me object.
I'm not sure how relevant this is, but "torus" screens have been available for years for front projection purposes.
They are not doughnut shaped, and have no holes in them. They are dished. Unlike the curved screens that are appearing, which are curved only along the x axis, torus screens are curved across both x and y axes: like a section of a doughnut.
They were popular among those with CRT projectors, which had great picture quality but low light output. They allowed the use of high-gain screen materials without the usual hot spotting (uneven screen brightness causing a bright centre and dim corners) for a far brighter, more even image.
Again I'm not sure how relevant this is, but isn't it possible that "doughnut shaped" is merely a misapplication of torus as regards to existing screen terminology.
I'm not sure what application a dished screen would have. Perhaps for a wider field of view in a VR headset? I'm merely speculating and could be entirely wrong.
They are not doughnut shaped, and have no holes in them. They are dished. Unlike the curved screens that are appearing, which are curved only along the x axis, torus screens are curved across both x and y axes: like a section of a doughnut.
They were popular among those with CRT projectors, which had great picture quality but low light output. They allowed the use of high-gain screen materials without the usual hot spotting (uneven screen brightness causing a bright centre and dim corners) for a far brighter, more even image.
Again I'm not sure how relevant this is, but isn't it possible that "doughnut shaped" is merely a misapplication of torus as regards to existing screen terminology.
I'm not sure what application a dished screen would have. Perhaps for a wider field of view in a VR headset? I'm merely speculating and could be entirely wrong.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
So, I'm pretty sure this is for their QOL thing. But the talk about a single screen handheld with the controls directly on the screen got me thinking, so I made a quick little concept to see what that could maybe look like:
The second and third images would be if the controls were transparent or something, and had like little LEDs underneath that would change color by being context-sensitive to the surrounding image. Not feasible, I'm sure, but I'm not an engineer. So that doesn't matter to me
Even if that's the case, it will look more like these though (after adding in the shoulder buttons, speakers, mic, home button, etc)
(dual screens)
yurinka
Member
An idea to expand what I posted above:
There would be an accesory included in the box: a grip where you place the device to get better ergonomics,would add proper bumpers and triggers, extra battery, like the ones for PSP..
At the same time, it would act as charger and stand, like the one for the WiiU Gamepad.
While charging its battery, how about to play in the tv through wireless HDMI using a WiiU Pro Controller?
yurinka said:
Wireless TV output to mirror the screen action optionally in TV too, 4G, bluetooth and latest wifi tech to online muliplayer and download stuff.
L and R physical buttons, the right analog would be as big as the left one. Dual OS (Android for apps & phone calls) and custom OS for device specific games.
Tegra with 8GB RAM. VC to allow up to 3DS games in the portable side and up to selected Wii/WiiU games in the home console side.
Would be released in 2016/2017.
Game design wise, you'd only to control that the game camera keeps the important stuff inside the game action area (character, close enemies and hazards that may affect you soon), so the camera typically wouldn't be as close to the characters as it is in the mockup. Think like when 4:3 games are ported to 16:9 and they just the extra area to show an extra part of the background/scroll.
In the bottom side there would be both physical or in-screen touch buttons for Select, Start, Home buttons, that also could be in the side of the device to have more more game action area.
There would be an accesory included in the box: a grip where you place the device to get better ergonomics,would add proper bumpers and triggers, extra battery, like the ones for PSP..
At the same time, it would act as charger and stand, like the one for the WiiU Gamepad.
While charging its battery, how about to play in the tv through wireless HDMI using a WiiU Pro Controller?
abstract alien
Member
Oh no, I mean literally use the GameCube style buttons(but smaller) if the issue is people needing a hint a what button they are pressing. Those buttons were made that way because they each has a distinctive feel, so you don't have to look down to know what button you are pressing. It's a much less expensive, and less resource heavy solution.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I'd imagine its a donut shape because theres a physical hole in the middle.
In other words, its the vitality sensor, with a screen around it, and you put your finger in the middle and it gives a readout based on that.
The mockups of handhelds where the controls are part of the screen look absolutely ridiculous from an ergonomics point of view, and nothing at all like nintendo design philosophies.
In other words, its the vitality sensor, with a screen around it, and you put your finger in the middle and it gives a readout based on that.
The mockups of handhelds where the controls are part of the screen look absolutely ridiculous from an ergonomics point of view, and nothing at all like nintendo design philosophies.
I agree. Just put an image of hands on top of that and everyone will realize there is no point of doing this. Evrything around the controls are basically dead zones you will not be able to see during gameplay so what's the point to have a screen there.
Refreshment.01
Member
Feasible or not, is just a pretty bad implementation. In the surface it looks cool and that's it. You are basically bringing one of the disadavantages of gaming in devices with only touch screen controls into a console with physical ones for no gains whatsoever.edit: WHY are everyone saying its not feasible??? This is Nintendo we are talking about they will build the games around the design of the handheld. They could make that shit work!
This would be the worse ginmick Nintendo could bring to the table for minimal gains. This same exact thing was discussed extensively in 2011 already with the Wii U when some guys did thing Ninte would do what you are seen posted XD
On the other hand, i' ve been thinking about a controller either for console or portable that only has a touch screen in the face. The problem is, it would need a membrane or layer that i don't know if it exists. It would basically alow for a any type of button configuration by assigning different textures and highs on top of the touch screen.
The closest thing in existance i know of just changes the texture of the touch screen.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
What you're talking about is a programmable touch screen you can feel, or one that "touches back" if you prefer.
It's been researched by hardware and software manufacturers and academics for decades.
One of the bigger questions from a practical point of view is how do you get there through incremental improvements on something that is actually feasible and affordable right now.
yurinka
Member
It's exactly the same ergonomics than in 3DS, or 3DS XL. People also use virtual pads on smartphones and tablets.
In any case, I posted a grip-charger accesory above.
PhoenixDawn
Member
If it's a doughnut with a hole in the middle i get the feeling it's for the QOL rather than the next handheld, at least in my opinion. It would be fine for that type of application to have such a strange screen shape, but I don't see how it could work to well for a gaming screen, although Nintendo has certainly surprised me before.
A circular device (why people are ignoring this is pretty much what Nintendo has looked into) is something thats really very versatile. Rather crude mock up:
Front section could be used as a direction prompt/map. Add in some gyro controls/assisted camera and you can aim to use the whole in the middle with the TV.
Just a thought.
Front section could be used as a direction prompt/map. Add in some gyro controls/assisted camera and you can aim to use the whole in the middle with the TV.
Just a thought.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
No it isn't.
Every nintendo handhedl ever created has been designed to have your hands rest on sculpted plastic, not on a touchscreen or a layer of gorilla glass.
People use virtual pads on devices that are not designed for the explicit purpose of gaming because those devices were never designed for the explicit purpose of gaming, and they have no alternative, and it is ludicrous to think that nintendo would design a device whose primary purpose is gaming to be unergonomic and then expect after market third party solutions to add ergonomics to it.
Agree with this. Or I guess taking this thread; digital screens under and around the buttons would be good. Sort of a halo.
Ninja Scooter
Member
if your thumbs and hands are going to be covering up those parts of the screen at all times anyway, why even have screen there? Why not just put plastic there and we're back to square one? It's one of those things that looks slick and futuristic in still concept images but is completely impractical and unrealistic for a real consumer product.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
What else are they suppose to do? Make a normal handheld with decent hardware/controls/policies and great games for an affordable price? LOL! Thats not innovation!
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
VITA says hi
I'm thinking they could make a handheld in the vein of the 2DS, just a flat slab but with the whole face of the console the screen. Allowing for 2 screen set up or one huge contiguous display. As the display will surround where the buttons and sticks will be you could have cool UI elements placed around the buttons and so less clutter on the main display area. Think a boost button meter which actually surrounds the boost button and when you use your boost you see the boost meter reduce around your finger... I dunno it'll provably be weirder than that, it is Nintendo after all.
Because there's no reason not to if such forms are possible. They might be covered or they might be obscured (note that not all games or events use exactly the same positioning), the end result is more visual surface area in a smaller device.
I like this emerging trend in smartphones where the entire face of the phone is one giant screen with little to no bezel. It's slick as fuck and the mock ups in this thread remind me of that. It's the only smartphone design that looks futuristic to me and a handheld would be even more so.
Refreshment.01
Member
That's not exactly what im talking about.
The touch screen that you can feel, it's pretty much available acording to the company that has a patent.
What im talking about is a transparent layer or membrane on top of the screen.
Imagine you have that transparent layer (let's pretend is of silicone to get a rough idea) to the sides of a touch screen, with the center area free. By an electric pulse you can exicte small portions of the layer to raise them, allowing to have buttons of different shapes, sizes and positions. Basically a dynamic button layout.
What are exactly the advantages of that design over say, having the Gamepad we already have but more stream lined with a reduced bezel?A circular device (why people are ignoring this is pretty much what Nintendo has looked into) is something thats really very versatile. Rather crude mock up:
Front section could be used as a direction prompt/map. Add in some gyro controls/assisted camera and you can aim to use the whole in the middle with the TV.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
The Vita doesnt have Nintendo games.
Ah okay.
I imagine it takes more power to render over areas which you will barely see due to your hands, I'd rather the extra battery life it takes up I imagine
spyroflame0487
Member
That feel when we'll never get a single screen design with a flip out "bottom" part like some of those android phones.
Like this, this is fine. You have your main screen for the action, and where it'd presumably work like a smartphone, apps (as in, other non-game things like youtube and logs) and then your game collection too.
When you open up a game, you can roll out that bottom screen to play. Push it back up to pause the game or do something else.
Just remove the phone part:
Like this, this is fine. You have your main screen for the action, and where it'd presumably work like a smartphone, apps (as in, other non-game things like youtube and logs) and then your game collection too.
When you open up a game, you can roll out that bottom screen to play. Push it back up to pause the game or do something else.
Refreshment.01
Member
Forgot to add, it would make a ton more sense if you moved the controls to the center and inside, that is the "hole" part.A circular device (why people are ignoring this is pretty much what Nintendo has looked into) is something thats really very versatile. Rather crude mock up:
Front section could be used as a direction prompt/map. Add in some gyro controls/assisted camera and you can aim to use the whole in the middle with the TV.
By doing so you' ll could at least have a fully symmetrical controller by rotating it.
The screen being cut around the buttons seems dumb; higher price, lower performance and minimal benefits.
Talking about the original model here, haven't had the chance to try the slim yet.
The VITA is one of the worst handhelds when it comes to controls; terrible layout and feel. The only good thing is the D-pad.
Talking about the original model here, haven't had the chance to try the slim yet.
Whaaaaat
-Tiny sticks with no range and grip that make precise movement really hard.
-Buttons from some sort of hard plastic that feels cheap to the touch. The shoulder buttons are especially awful.
-Everything is crammed together so you'll always be touching the sticks whenever you push down on the D-pad or use the X button and thus run the risk of accidental inputs.
-The Select and Start button are hard press, both location and pressure wise. I guess someone at Sony must really hate these two buttons so they made using them as uncomfortable as possible.
-Your thumbs may cover your speakers depending on what buttons you're pressing so the volume will constantly be rising and lowering.
Whoever designed and approved this thing should stay away from any future Sony handhelds.
Colonel Mustard
Banned
You'll get flack for this, but you're correct. The Vita's sticks are awful, I'd much prefer some sort of evolution of the slide pads than something akin to the Vita's sticks.
I Stalk Alone
Member
A circular device (why people are ignoring this is pretty much what Nintendo has looked into) is something thats really very versatile. Rather crude mock up:
Front section could be used as a direction prompt/map. Add in some gyro controls/assisted camera and you can aim to use the whole in the middle with the TV.
Just a thought.
what kind of japanese toilet seat is this?
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
You have no idea what the gains could be. either do I we dont develop for such device.
pinkurocket
Member
Alright, decided to explore this a little further and I made a quick little GIF. Didn't have time to animate the color-changing controls, and I agree that a 2:40:1 screen ratio would be better, but I couldn't find any video to fill out the screen space properly. So I just stuck with 16:9:
Not the best implementation, but I think you can see what I'm getting at. Adding digital buttons/functions around the space of physical controls. Decorations, visual cues, all kinds of stuff could animate in and out by being context relative. Would be more useful with a complex game rather than a simple one like Mario Kart.
I felt like it:
Now, I know you already mentioned the hud hidden away bottom right can be moved top right, it's a free space. However, I don't think this is a feasable concept if only because the area outside of the center square is almost purely cosmetic. Your hands are covering up a bunch and it is wasted space. Space that takes a bunch of energy and power as well. You're basically delivering a 4:3 gaming experience.
It's an interesting concept, I give you that. I don't think it would actually make the gaming experience better, it's a neat gimmick, but nothing more.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
That's exactly what I was referring to. It's called a programmable haptic display, and it's one of those Holy Grail technologies that have been in R&D for decades. Like I said, unless you have a way to produce an inferior version today which can be gradually refined over the next decade (or more), you've got nothing. Every company or research institute with an interest in future interfaces has been working on it since as far back as I can remember.
Refreshment.01
Member
Do you mean the screen with the buttons plastered through it? Of course we have ideas of what would gain from this and it is almost nothing. It was the same back when the Wii U speculations were runing rampant. XD
Mihael, you are just seen the nice GIF with some of your favorite Nintendo games and think is cool. However, you are not viewing the concept from a practical point of view. The reasons why is not practical has been mentioned already, but if you want pick each one of those arguments and answer them properly.