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[mugwhump]

Would you have had any idea what I was talking about if you hadn't just finished it?

 

[Urban Scholar]

Spoiler

THE VILLIAN IS YOUR BROTHER WHOSE WIFE IS YOUR GIRLFRIEND WHOSE DAUGHTER IS YOUR SISTER (AND YOUR CAT!) WHO KILLED YOU AND YOUR FATHER, WHO IS THE VILLIAN. EXCEPT NOT. MAYBE.

Hmm I don't know sir,

Spoiler

I agree with most of this except daughter is your sister bit. I thought it was alluded that child Jeanne at the end was Slyvia's daughter or maybe Jeanne &....Travis's daughter? However this makes no sense because Travis on most accounts is a virgin no?

Ok I'm going to stop right there because this is bringing me back to reading tons of pages of theories and Suda just messing with our minds.

 

[MNC]

Would you have had any idea what I was talking about if you hadn't just finished it?

...


Damn you shut up!

Spoiler

I think mugwhump just means namewise about Jeane

 

[thefro]

Hearing that Bozon is pretty hyped about the jobs/overworld interface in this one when he hated it in the first game is great. Makes me pretty excited.

 

[Oxx]

Hopefully Rising Star get their arses in gear and make sure there isn't the same gap between US and European release that Muramasa suffered.

 

[AceBandage]

As you'd expect, the BJ5 are five cute girls that don't mind flashing the occasional panty shot and strip nude when transforming into a quintet of superhero maidens. Well, they've got their own arcade game, and it's surprisingly deep, allowing you to select any of the five girls, each with their own power and speed stats. The arcade game itself even has its own mini-boss and boss levels, and a local leaderboard to save your high scores. Once you complete it, taking the top spot on the leaderboard, you unlock a video for the BJ5, and it alone is nearly worth the price of admission into Desperate Struggle. Maybe my $50 goes quicker than yours does, but trust me when I say it's funny as hell, and you'll be showing friends time and time again.

SCORE!

 

[lordoftherink]

Wait, this is coming out this month? I always thought it was a February release. So yeah, great job Ubisoft.

 

[GWX]

Bozon indeed sounds positive about this game. But I want to see how much it will score, just to see if this preview has any credibility.

 

[Dascu]

Peep show vid reminds me of the movie Paris, Texas.

 

[NotWii]

HYPE

 

[Danthrax]

Spoiler

THE VILLIAN IS YOUR BROTHER WHOSE WIFE IS YOUR GIRLFRIEND WHOSE DAUGHTER IS YOUR SISTER (AND YOUR CAT!) WHO KILLED YOU AND YOUR FATHER, WHO IS THE VILLIAN. EXCEPT NOT. MAYBE.

What?? From my understanding...

Spoiler

The villain is your brother and he's married to Sylvia, yes. But Jeanne is not their daughter. Jeanne is your sister and she killed your father but I'm pretty sure she (and Travis) are not the children of Sylvia and, um, their brother.

Or did I miss something, mugwhump is completely right and my mind changed the facts so they would make marginally more sense?

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Bozon indeed sounds positive about this game. But I want to see how much it will score, just to see if this preview has any credibility.

this doesn't make sense

 

[MNC]

What?? From my understanding...

Spoiler

The villain is your brother and he's married to Sylvia, yes. But Jeanne is not their daughter. Jeanne is your sister and she killed your father but I'm pretty sure she (and Travis) are not the children of Sylvia and, um, their brother.

Or did I miss something, mugwhump is completely right and my mind changed the facts so they would make marginally more sense?

Spoiler

He's indeed fucking with your mind as all he did was call all the Jeane's the same. Didn't you see him call 'your daughter' 'your cat' as well?

 

[Jethro]

Bozon indeed sounds positive about this game. But I want to see how much it will score, just to see if this preview has any credibility.

7.9

 

[Jocchan]

7.7

Fixed (it would be hilarious)

 

[Dascu]

So we're 2 weeks from launch. How's that official thread coming along, John Harker?

 

[EatChildren]

What?? From my understanding...

Spoiler

The villain is your brother and he's married to Sylvia, yes. But Jeanne is not their daughter. Jeanne is your sister and she killed your father but I'm pretty sure she (and Travis) are not the children of Sylvia and, um, their brother.

Or did I miss something, mugwhump is completely right and my mind changed the facts so they would make marginally more sense?

Spoiler

Yes, Henry is your brother and is married to Sylvia. Jeane is your sister (same father) and killed your parents. Jeanne is also your ex-girlfiend. However, after the credits on the real ending Sylvia is seen with a little girl also called Jeane, who is likely Sylvia and Henry's daughter sharing the same name as Travis' sister/girlfriend.

 

[nightside]

no more free roaming in santa destroy ?

I liked wandering around searching for t-shirts and lovikov balls :lol

 

[G.O.O.]

just play through it quickly.

you have to play Suda games to understand them. Reading about them or watching videos is not the same.

Liking it is heads or tails. Getting it is lotto, and chances are close to zero if you play it reluctantly/with a bad a priori.

 

[hellclerk]

Spoiler

Yes, Henry is your brother and is married to Sylvia. Jeane is your sister (same father) and killed your parents. Jeanne is also your ex-girlfiend. However, after the credits on the real ending Sylvia is seen with a little girl also called Jeane, who is likely Sylvia and Henry's daughter sharing the same name as Travis' sister/girlfriend.

Spoiler

My theory on the matter puts the young Jeane as the daughter of Travis and older Jean that Sylvia adopted after setting up Travis to eventually fight older Jeane.

 

[EatChildren]

Spoiler

My theory on the matter puts the young Jeane as the daughter of Travis and older Jean that Sylvia adopted after setting up Travis to eventually fight older Jeane.

Spoiler

Why do you think young Jeane is Travis' kid? There didnt seem to be any hint towards that, in my opinion, and the general tone and presentation of Jeane (old) and Travis didnt really indicate a child.

Then again its pretty much pointless to debate the plot since its just one big joke.

 

[G.O.O.]

Spoiler

Why do you think young Jeane is Travis' kid? There didnt seem to be any hint towards that, in my opinion, and the general tone and presentation of Jeane (old) and Travis didnt really indicate a child.

Then again its pretty much pointless to debate the plot since its just one big joke.

Spoiler

The child's fascination towards the painting. Though, I would have said that it was Travis & Sylvia's child, but it could as well be a joke and my brain started to fucking hurt when I realized about the reason that could be behind the back to the future typo.

 

[EatChildren]

What typo?!

 

[G.O.O.]

The "to be continued" written like that => http://i45.tinypic.com/4l3vc3.gif

Oh. The font, not the typo, sorry -_-

 

[EatChildren]

The "to be continued" written like that => http://i45.tinypic.com/4l3vc3.gif

Oh, that. I thought there was a typo in the actual writing or something.

 

[hellclerk]

Spoiler

Why do you think young Jeane is Travis' kid? There didnt seem to be any hint towards that, in my opinion, and the general tone and presentation of Jeane (old) and Travis didnt really indicate a child.

Then again its pretty much pointless to debate the plot since its just one big joke.

Spoiler

Why else would Jeane try and kill Travis as well. Considering I chose a Freudian/Jungian approach to the game, I would argue that Travis did truly love Jeane, and would feel hurt by her betrayal of him, which is the reason he's such an undersexed, pathetic individual. Likewise, if Travis got Jean pregnant, Jean would probably associate this with the kind of treatment that Travis's father gave her mother, and thus want to kill him for it afterwards.

With all of this in mind, The young Jean at the time of those events is actually newborn and named for her mother, who died.

In any case, it's an idle theory that may or may not flesh out, depending on the next game. I am curious to see how it all turns out though, because as lightly as the story takes itself, there really is a very expressionist and philosophical narrative in there.

Harker, if you're around, would you mind if I put together the text for the official thread? I love coming up with these creative OPs...

 

[Dascu]

More fuel for the fire: The picture of Jeanne on Travis' cupboard is crossed out with black markers in NMH2.

The point doomed1 raises is very interesting.

Spoiler

The young Jeanne from the ending being Travis' daughter with his half-sister Jeanne draws parallels to Kill Bill and Paris, Texas (after whose main character Travis was named, plus, as I said before, the new Peep Show video seems like a very obvious hommage to that film). It'd certainly be interesting if NMH2 touches upon this subject again. Suda has said that a hypothetical NMH3 probably wouldn't feature Travis in the main role anymore. Maybe Travis' daughter could take his place?

 

[EatChildren]

Spoiler

Why else would Jeane try and kill Travis as well. Considering I chose a Freudian/Jungian approach to the game, I would argue that Travis did truly love Jeane, and would feel hurt by her betrayal of him, which is the reason he's such an undersexed, pathetic individual. Likewise, if Travis got Jean pregnant, Jean would probably associate this with the kind of treatment that Travis's father gave her mother, and thus want to kill him for it afterwards.

With all of this in mind, The young Jean at the time of those events is actually newborn and named for her mother, who died.

I think you're thinking too much into it.

Spoiler

It's a classic revenge tale. Travis was fighting for number 1, that's it, and he ultimately wanted to kill Jeane because she killed his father. At the end Travis 'remembers' seeing her over the bodies. Jeane is a mess, pure and simple. Travis is fighting for revenge and to be No.1. Their confrontation exists because she is the ultimate enemy for Travis, the source of his anguish, and the only person who he actually wants to kill for a genuine reason.

Henry's revelation that he is Travis' twin brother, and Sylvia's husband, is there for no other reason than to fuck with the viewer. It's canon to be sure, but it's still nonsense. The scene with Sylvia and the kid serves only to further fuck with the viewer, especially since they stand in front of a portrait of Travis (her uncle) and Henry (her father).

While it's possible NMH2 will introduce young Jeane as Travis' daughter, I dont believe there is any developer intention to indicate that in NMH. Travis never slept with Sylvia, and his relationship with Jeane (in the game) is that of a revenge tale for her killing his parents.

I'm all for looking deeper into the intentions and symbolism of Suda games, but for me No More Heroes is more a critical look at pop culture and pop art than an indepth story of twists. Most of the scenarios, scenes, characters, and developments are themselves blatant references and mockerys of pop culture, especially Star Wars.

More fuel for the fire: The picture of Jeanne on Travis' cupboard is crossed out with black markers in NMH2.

The point doomed1 raises is very interesting.

Spoiler

The young Jeanne from the ending being Travis' daughter with his half-sister Jeanne draws parallels to Kill Bill and Paris, Texas (after whose main character Travis was named, plus, as I said before, the new Peep Show video seems like a very obvious hommage to that film). It'd certainly be interesting if NMH2 touches upon this subject again. Suda has said that a hypothetical NMH3 probably wouldn't feature Travis in the main role anymore. Maybe Travis' daughter could take his place?

The picture of Jeane is crossed out for pretty obvious reasons,

Spoiler

her killing his parents and eventually killer her, ya know

. But I guess you're right about the other part, as Suda did say (I think) Paris, Texas was one of his all time favourite movies.

And yeah, NMH2 will be the end of Travis' story ark. A NMH3, should it exist, will feature a new character.

 

[Archie]

I haven't paid attention to this game, but I saw a preview video and it looks like the combat has been overhauled for the better. Is the open world still around? I didn't mind the mini game jobs in the original, but traveling to and from was very tedious.

Sorry if this has already been addressed. I skimmed the first two pages of the thread and couldn't find anything.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

i think it's just making fun of metal gear solid

 

[Dascu]

More on the Paris, Texas parallels:

Spoiler

The movie stars Travis. His son is raised by his brother and his wife (who happens to have a French accent). Travis and his wife have broken up a long time ago, but he's still in the mist as to what exactly went wrong. His wife's name is Jane by the way. He eventually goes back to talk to his wife, who is now working in a peep show place, exactly like in that new IGN video.

I'd say this gives some support to doomed1's theory.

 

[botticus]

I haven't paid attention to this game, but I saw a preview video and it looks like the combat has been overhauled for the better. Is the open world still around? I didn't mind the mini game jobs in the original, but traveling to and from was very tedious.

Sorry if this has already been addressed. I skimmed the first two pages of the thread and couldn't find anything.

The open world is gone.

 

[EatChildren]

More on the Paris, Texas parallels:

Spoiler

The movie stars Travis. His son is raised by his brother and his wife (who happens to have a French accent). Travis and his wife have broken up a long time ago, but he's still in the mist as to what exactly went wrong. His wife's name is Jane by the way. He eventually goes back to talk to his wife, who is now working in a peep show place, exactly like in that new IGN video.

I'd say this gives some support to doomed1's theory.

Yeah, but unlike other stories Im not going to bother trying to theorise this franchise. For all we know she could turn out to be a robot sent from the future, only it turns out you're the robot who's memory was erased and you were really sent from the future, then you realise Santa Destroy is actually a moon base. Then you ride a dinosaur into the sun.

 

[hellclerk]

More fuel for the fire: The picture of Jeanne on Travis' cupboard is crossed out with black markers in NMH2.

The point doomed1 raises is very interesting.

Spoiler

The young Jeanne from the ending being Travis' daughter with his half-sister Jeanne draws parallels to Kill Bill and Paris, Texas (after whose main character Travis was named, plus, as I said before, the new Peep Show video seems like a very obvious hommage to that film). It'd certainly be interesting if NMH2 touches upon this subject again. Suda has said that a hypothetical NMH3 probably wouldn't feature Travis in the main role anymore. Maybe Travis' daughter could take his place?

Which is actually something I suggested in the last thread.

Spoiler

It was actually a result of me thinking how Suda would do a sequel since the game didn't really lend itself to one right off the bat, which is where I thought of the child at the end. It would be interesting for a kind of weird Electra/sins of the father complex to come into play with the daughter's search and destruction of her father, paralleling Travis's journey through sexuality, and likely coming to terms with the destruction of his own father.

But again, it's all just idle theory for now. I need to see how this next game will flesh out.

 

[Nicktals]

Yeah, but unlike other stories Im not going to bother trying to theorise this franchise. For all we know she could turn out to be a robot sent from the future, only it turns out you're the robot who's memory was erased and you were really sent from the future, then you realise Santa Destroy is actually a moon base. Then you ride a dinosaur into the sun.

:lol

One can hope.

Spoiler

But the dinosaur is actually a mech operated by Letz Shake!

 

[Dascu]

Yeah, but unlike other stories Im not going to bother trying to theorise this franchise. For all we know she could turn out to be a robot sent from the future, only it turns out you're the robot who's memory was erased and you were really sent from the future, then you realise Santa Destroy is actually a moon base. Then you ride a dinosaur into the sun.

FOR FUCKS SAKE YOU SPOILED A GAME FOR ME AGAIN!

 

[hellclerk]

Yeah, but unlike other stories Im not going to bother trying to theorise this franchise. For all we know she could turn out to be a robot sent from the future, only it turns out you're the robot who's memory was erased and you were really sent from the future, then you realise Santa Destroy is actually a moon base. Then you ride a dinosaur into the sun.

SHHHHH! Don't give Suda any ideas!

 

[SaintZ]

I think you're thinking too much into it.

Spoiler

It's a classic revenge tale. Travis was fighting for number 1, that's it, and he ultimately wanted to kill Jeane because she killed his father. At the end Travis 'remembers' seeing her over the bodies. Jeane is a mess, pure and simple. Travis is fighting for revenge and to be No.1. Their confrontation exists because she is the ultimate enemy for Travis, the source of his anguish, and the only person who he actually wants to kill for a genuine reason.

Henry's revelation that he is Travis' twin brother, and Sylvia's husband, is there for no other reason than to fuck with the viewer. It's canon to be sure, but it's still nonsense. The scene with Sylvia and the kid serves only to further fuck with the viewer, especially since they stand in front of a portrait of Travis (her uncle) and Henry (her father).

I'm all for looking deeper into the intentions and symbolism of Suda games, but for me No More Heroes is more a critical look at pop culture and pop art than an indepth story of twists. Most of the scenarios, scenes, characters, and developments are themselves blatant references and mockerys of pop culture, especially Star Wars.

I kind of agree with this but...

Spoiler

While it's possible NMH2 will introduce young Jeane as Travis' daughter, I dont believe there is any developer intention to indicate that in NMH. Travis never slept with Sylvia, and his relationship with Jeane (in the game) is that of a revenge tale for her killing his parents.

I thought it was implied that

Spoiler

Travis and Silvia did sleep together after the fight with Harvey. When Travis and Henry are fighting at the end, Travis says Silva is "... a bad wife but a good woman" and then, Henry gets pissed off because he assumes they slept together

. I guess it's nothing concrete but I just wanted to throw it out there.

 

[EatChildren]

I thought it was implied that

Spoiler

Travis and Silvia did sleep together after the fight with Harvey. When Travis and Henry are fighting at the end, Travis says Silva is "... a bad wife but a good woman" and then, Henry gets pissed off because he assumes they slept together

. I guess it's nothing concrete but I just wanted to throw it out there.

I took that as Travis just being the usual dick he is to his opponents, taunting Henry. Sylvia always said from the begining she would not sleep with him until he was Number 1.

The post Harvey fight scene was just them sharing a kiss in my eyes.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I took that as Travis just being the usual dick he is to his opponents, taunting Henry. Sylvia always said from the begining she would not sleep with him until he was Number 1.

The post Harvey fight scene was just them sharing a kiss in my eyes.

I think they did sleep together.

Spoiler

Right after the Harvey fight, the phone message you get was not nice and cordial, it was pissed off and angry. Sounded like Henry knew.

 

[Dascu]

I think they did sleep together.

Spoiler

Right after the Harvey fight, the phone message you get was not nice and cordial, it was pissed off and angry. Sounded like Henry knew.

So why was he surprised at the end at Travis' taunt?

I'm with EatChildren on this one.

 

[hellclerk]

I think they did sleep together.

Spoiler

Right after the Harvey fight, the phone message you get was not nice and cordial, it was pissed off and angry. Sounded like Henry knew.

But then, those messages were all over the place with no clear correlations. The phone call Sylvia made just before the final boss on the other hand

Spoiler

openly mocked Travis for thinking she would sleep with him. The concept of the theater in th Harvey fight is more of a cultural reference and this game references with no shame. The kiss Travis and Sylvia shared was a stage kiss in more than one sense.

 

[EatChildren]

I think they did sleep together.

Spoiler

Right after the Harvey fight, the phone message you get was not nice and cordial, it was pissed off and angry. Sounded like Henry knew.

Henry is surprised when Travis taunts him. He had no idea.

 

[MNC]

Spoiler

When people are talking about the Harvey fight, WHICH FUCKING FIGHT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT!? There's no phone message after the real ending henry fight because it ends in credits!

OOOH SHIT NEVERMIND

Spoiler

I MIXED UP HARVEY AND HENRY :lol :lol

 

[EatChildren]

Spoiler

When people are talking about the Harvey fight, WHICH FUCKING FIGHT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT!? There's no phone message after the real ending harvey fight because it ends in credits!

Harvey the Magician. Henry is the guy you're thinking of.

 

[MNC]

Harvey the Magician. Henry is the guy you're thinking of.

I just noticed, yeah. People should call harvey by his last name dammit.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I just noticed, yeah. People should call harvey by his last name dammit.

Moiseiwitsch Volodarskii is a bit of a mouthful.

 

[G.O.O.]

But then, those messages were all over the place with no clear correlations. The phone call Sylvia made just before the final boss on the other hand

Spoiler

openly mocked Travis for thinking she would sleep with him. The concept of the theater in th Harvey fight is more of a cultural reference and this game references with no shame. The kiss Travis and Sylvia shared was a stage kiss in more than one sense.

Spoiler

Actually I believe that the Volodarskii fight is where Travis learns seduction, which is why he gets to kiss Sylvia after winning - and maybe why the next ranked fight is the first woman he kills, also.

From this point, Sylvia seems to be more confused when she calls him. I think she realized that she is now playing with her own feelings, and not only with Travis'.

 

[yankeeforever2]

Shit this thread makes me want to play again just to try to understand the story more:lol :lol

 

[AceBandage]

Shit this thread makes me want to play again just to try to understand the story more:lol :lol

Honestly, it's impossible to understand.
Suda put in so many intentional plot holes and fake motives that it's insane.