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[Suikoguy]

From a personal standpoint, I don't care what the candidates say about each other, as long as it's civil. It's an election. I EXPECT that kind of political trash talk.

But obviously Trump goes over the line.

That's your personal view.
I was just trying to explain why so many people seemed, as you put it; "batshit insane".

The Dem election up until a month ago was really adult and civil. Many of us Hillary supporters were critical of his lack of specific policy plans, but did not outright dislike Sanders.

I enjoy the revisionism in history but it was pretty clear what she(not her surrogates) implied during the debate.

Her surrogates simply ran with it afterwards.

Since this seems to have bothered you so much, would you care to provide at the minimum which debate that was in? There should also be transcripts for each.

 

[TheFatOne]

how so? i legitimately don't follow.

People here have been calling for him to drop out looooooooooooonnnnnnnnggggggggggggggg before that.

"Meaningless". All of HillGAF wanted him to drop a month ago, let alone yesterday. Try again.

There has been no real pressure from the media for Bernie to drop out. For the most part they have been playing up that this has been a race up until NY. That's about to change. Pressure is going to start coming from Dems, and the media for Bernie to stop much like Hilary in 08. In a couple of weeks I'm pretty confident the number of people who want Bernie to drop out is going to be greater than the number of people who want him to stay.

 

[border]

I've said it before, but how is it that the campaign that spent the last 2 months complaining about how un-democratic superdelegates are is now openly conspiring to use superdelegates to steal the nomination from the candidate who has won the majority of the popular vote?

 

[Suikoguy]

I've said it before, but how is it that the campaign that spent the last 2 months complaining about how un-democratic superdelegates are is now openly conspiring to use superdelegates to steal the nomination from the candidate who has won the majority of the popular vote?

Yep, it's probably the most hypocritical part of his whole campaign.

Anyway, i'm out for tonight, i'll check the thread in the morning.

 

[rokkerkory]

Really like Bernie and all he stands for. At this stage it's near impossible for him to win. He should focus on helping to beat Trump

 

[Mael]

I've said it before, but how is it that the campaign that spent the last 2 months complaining about how un-democratic superdelegates are is now openly conspiring to use superdelegates to steal the nomination from the candidate who has won the majority of the popular vote?

It's the same standard used for the whole campaign.
If Sanders does it "it's ok", if it's Clinton "burn the witch".
I have no idea why anyone think he's doing anything for the "issues" he supposedly believes in when the only thing the media report are ammo for Trump to use.

 

[Frozenprince]

https://www.nationaljournal.com/mag...ight-everybody-else-is-wrong-clear-about-that



While I get that it might be daunting to try to get the minority vote away from Clinton, you kind of have to try.

You don't win the Dem Primary by not courting minorities. Hillary learned this lesson in 08. That and you can't beat Obama.

God this is funny. It's like Mitt Romney never existed.

 

[hammysaurusrex]

https://thepoliticalanalyzer.com/2016/04/30/sanders-dominates-clinton-in-california-with-61-25/

About: Italian Psychologist and Political Scientist. Social Media Expert, Trends and Sentiment Analyzer, Memetica Expert, Frames Guru, Storyteller, Marketing and Communication, Musician, Rapper, Writer, Ghostwriter, and many more.

Looks like a really in-depth and informative piece of academic literature.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

Go home and be a family man!

I have more respect for Kasich and Cruz today.

having any respect whatsoever for ted cruz is disgusting

 

[Balphon]

Which is why I brought up that the line about being unqualified. She says the same thing about Obama but people went batshit insane when Bernie did it (or didn't; I just heard the blurbs because I really didn't care).

Ignoring for a moment that the Presidency is probably so unique that no prior job experience can fully prepare a person for it, the "unqualified" argument was at least cogent when levied against Obama in '08. He was a first term US senator with basically zero experience in executive government. Trying to paint someone with Clinton's resume with the same brush is almost patently absurd.

 

[Macam]

how so? i legitimately don't follow.

Projection. The article's poll results pretty much explains it:

While Clinton’s supporters are much more divided on what Sanders should do, a sizable 28 percent of Clinton’s supporters agree that Sanders should stay in the race through the convention. A plurality—40 percent—would like to see him drop out after the final primary race in June even if he still behind. Only three in 10 would like to see him drop out now.

Those 3 in 10? They're all here.

 

[Suite Pee]

I think his message is important, but if he's going to waste all this time and money stretching out these primaries, I wish he'd actually throw out some substantial plans that would fit his democratic socialist platform. As is, he's just yelling at the same people with the same ideas.

Get a meaty policy plan that gets enough support that Clinton can nab it for herself.

 

[Cipherr]

I've said it before, but how is it that the campaign that spent the last 2 months complaining about how un-democratic superdelegates are is now openly conspiring to use superdelegates to steal the nomination from the candidate who has won the majority of the popular vote?

Hypocrisy off the charts that's how.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Projection. The article's poll results pretty much explains it:



Those 3 in 10? They're all here.

Well, that and the 4 in 10.

 

[sprsk]

Hypocrisy off the charts that's how.

She really should drop out anyway, what with the FBI about to call for her arrest ANY DAY NOW.

 

[NullPointer]

Good for Bernie.

I don't see his obstinance as a problem.

His issues are real. They are important. And Hillary would do wise to understand them and answer them in her own way

if anything this whole party loyalty thing puts Bernie's issues front and center. Its not about the machine, and its not about loyalty. Its about what works, and what resonates.

That is what party unification looks like.

 

[MIMIC]

Ignoring for a moment that the Presidency is probably so unique that no prior job experience can fully prepare a person for it, the "unqualified" argument was at least cogent when levied against Obama in '08. He was a first term US senator with basically zero experience in executive government. Trying to paint someone with Clinton's resume with the same brush is almost patently absurd.

And Obama did it for 8 successful years while Hillary's "qualifications" got the door shut in her face.

Hopefully she took some notes and used that time to reevaluate the skill set for what it takes to be President.

 

[jack_package_200]

And Obama did it for 8 successful years while Hillary's "qualifications" got the door shut in her face.

Hopefully she took some notes and used that time to reevaluate the skill set for what it takes to be President.

Clearly the evaluation has gone pretty well since she has essentially won the dem primary in a landslide.

 

[Macam]

if anything this whole party loyalty thing puts Bernie's issues front and center. Its not about the machine, and its not about loyalty. Its about what works, and what resonates.

That is what party unification looks like.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

 

[MIMIC]

Clearly the evaluation has gone pretty well since she has essentially won the dem primary in a landslide.

Or maybe the bar got lowered. Managing to get ensnared in scandal after scandal isn't something I'd want to put on my "Why I should be President" cover letter.

 

[M.W.]

What a huge waste of resources and everyone's time.

Yep. That's Bernie.

 

[jack_package_200]

Or maybe the bar got lowered. Managing to get ensnared in scandal after scandal isn't something I'd want to put on my "Why I should be President" cover letter.

Can you please explain what you mean with this remark?

 

[Balphon]

And Obama did it for 8 successful years while Hillary's "qualifications" got the door shut in her face.

Hopefully she took some notes and used that time to reevaluate the skill set for what it takes to be President.

Like I said, the notion than one can be "qualified" to be President is inherently dubious.

I was merely giving you the reason why an attack on then-Senator Obama's qualifications would be received differently than the same attack on Clinton's, and it isn't because the media is out to get Sanders.

 

[NullPointer]

Yep. That's Bernie.

Bullshit. Bernie exists to get Hillary to recognize her left.

Don't discount it.

Lets unify and destroy. Seriously. Hillary doesn't need to blindly pander, she needs to recognize the righteous opposition, and separate that from the maniacs.

Its time to forge the path ahead.

 

[ivysaur12]

I mean it's pretty obvious he's pandering to Bernie folks but I have faith most of them aren't so stupid they won't see his game.

It's petty and transparent, but I imagine he'll keep this up for the better part of the early summer.

 

[Prodigal Son]

There has been no real pressure from the media for Bernie to drop out. For the most part they have been playing up that this has been a race up until NY. That's about to change. Pressure is going to start coming from Dems, and the media for Bernie to stop much like Hilary in 08. In a couple of weeks I'm pretty confident the number of people who want Bernie to drop out is going to be greater than the number of people who want him to stay.

Nah. There's been some pressure. Just last night tapper kept hammering him on how his victory is impossible and kept asking why he won't drop out.


OT: Looking at polls and comparing it with some of the arguments here, most HRC supporters aren't even that keen on seeing Bernie drop. It's really just her more core following. That's pretty pleasing to see. I keep forgetting most HRC supporters don't hate Bernie. Whatever animosity is there is largely the reaction to vocally militant Bernie supporters. Makes me pretty happy.

Bernie Sanders, don't drop out by Paul Regala, A known Hillary Supporter



http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/04/opinions/bernie-sanders-begala/index.html

Hope Bern picks the second option.

This is really interesting.

 

[jack_package_200]

Bernie Sanders, don't drop out by Paul Regala, A known Hillary Supporter

Don't drop out of the race; redefine it. To quit or not to quit; that is not the question. The question is: Will you use your campaign to show Donald Trump how to attack Hillary -- or to show Hillary how to attack Donald Trump?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/04/opinions/bernie-sanders-begala/index.html

Hope Bern picks the second option.

 

[MIMIC]

Can you please explain what you mean with this remark?

Bar as in standards; maybe they're lower now (I'm not saying they are but if we're talking about Obama becoming President and then Hillary....)

Like I said, the notion than one can be "qualified" to be President is inherently dubious.

I was merely giving you the reason why an attack on then-Senator Obama's qualifications would be received differently than the same attack on Clinton's, and it isn't because the media is out to get Sanders.

Here are the qualifications: http://www.presidentsusa.net/qualifications.html

Maybe someone should give Hillary a lesson in history. Holding office longer than someone or being married to the President doesn't make you more qualified.

EDIT: Or maybe she thought it did. Oops.

 

[B-Dubs]

Bar as in standards; maybe they're lower now (I'm not saying they are but if we're talking about Obama becoming President and then Hillary....)



Here are the qualifications: http://www.presidentsusa.net/qualifications.html

Maybe someone should give Hillary a lesson in history. Holding office longer than someone or being married to the President doesn't make you more qualified.

Actually, beyond those two, the qualifications are whatever the voters decide they are. That's the bare minimum, the voters get to decide everything past that and most voters tend to think experience is an important qualification. Not the most important, but up there. It's why if you or I ran we wouldn't get any support, it's why Lessig went nowhere.

 

[hammysaurusrex]

When Bernie decides to drop out isn't a big deal in my opinion, just that he changes his rhetoric from being anti-Clinton and being a sad puppet for Trump. Not only is it frustrating seeing him split the party, but I personally just feel bad for him. His legacy was suppose to be about some sort of progressive 'movement', but it's going to die as a story about an opportunistic politician that really, really wanted to be president. E.g., every single other presidential candidate in the history of the US more or less.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I've said this since the beginning.

He can stay in as long as he wants.

As long as he stops potentially damaging attacks, on the 99% likely nominee.

 

[Big Baybee]

I've said this since the beginning.

He can stay in as long as he wants.

As long as he stops potentially damaging attacks, on the 99% likely nominee.

This is all his message has become. Attack attack attack. I'm actually shocked he's gotten as bad as he has. Never expected that.

 

[s10satsu]

Like I said, the notion than one can be "qualified" to be President is inherently dubious.

I was merely giving you the reason why an attack on then-Senator Obama's qualifications would be received differently than the same attack on Clinton's, and it isn't because the media is out to get Sanders.

Honestly, the issue with that quote isn't so much calling Obama unqualified, it's saying McCain was more qualified than Obama. It'd be like Bernie saying Trump would be a better president than Clinton. Can you imagine the butthurt if that happened?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I mean it's pretty obvious he's pandering to Bernie folks but I have faith most of them aren't so stupid they won't see his game.

From the garbage I've been reading on Twitter recently, some of which comes from a Bernie supporter with a pretty sizable audience, I'm not so optimistic.

 

[Prodigal Son]

This is all his message has become. Attack attack attack. I'm actually shocked he's gotten as bad as he has. Never expected that.

Man, have you actually listened to a Bernie speech in the last month? How someone can tell a straight, bold-faced lie like this is weird to me.

Levying a charge of inexperience at Clinton is silly and smacks of either dog whistle sexism or an attempt to evoke past scandals without actually mentioning them

Wait, did someone call Clinton inexperienced?

 

[Balphon]

Here are the qualifications: http://www.presidentsusa.net/qualifications.html

Maybe someone should give Hillary a lesson in history. Holding office longer than someone or being married to the President doesn't make you more qualified.

EDIT: Or maybe she thought it did. Oops.

I'm not sure if you're willfully misunderstanding me or not.

If not, I agree, but to the extent that voters actually care about "experience," Clinton clearly has it, whatever dim view you may have of the Department of State or the Office of the First Lady. President Obama's political and policy background in 2008 was entirely different, and that explains why the same charge levied at him might have met a different response.

Levying a charge of inexperience at Clinton is silly and smacks of either dog whistle sexism or an attempt to evoke past scandals without actually mentioning them, both of which are incredibly crass.

Basically, if you want to develop a narrative of media bias against Sanders, you need a better example.

Honestly, the issue with that quote isn't so much calling Obama unqualified, it's saying McCain was more qualified than Obama. It'd be like Bernie saying Trump would be a better president than Clinton. Can you imagine the butthurt if that happened?

She was basically positioning herself as the better GE candidate than Obama, which is the same thing Sanders is doing presently, so I'm not sure I need to imagine it.

 

[s10satsu]

I'm not sure if you're willfully misunderstanding me or not.

If not, I agree, but to the extent that voters actually care about "experience," Clinton clearly has it, whatever dim view you may have of the Department of State or the Office of the First Lady. President Obama's political and policy background in 2008 was entirely different, and that explains why the same charge levied at him might have met a different response.

Levying a charge of inexperience at Clinton is silly and smacks of either dog whistle sexism or an attempt to evoke past scandals without actually mentioning them, both of which are incredibly crass.

Basically, if you want to develop a narrative of media bias against Sanders, you need a better example.

I mean, to be fair, Bernie does have more time in politics than Clinton. Not that it seems to have amounted to much but he can certainly pull the seniority card on her without it being sexism or whatever.

As far as media bias, it's mostly just WaPo and Vox doing all the hit pieces and ridiculous shit. Like HuffPo/Salon hitting Clinton. But ya, I don't think there's some over-arching bias against Bernie. He doesn't get much time in the news lately because his campaign has been near-impossible for a month now, not because of some conspiracy.

She was basically positioning herself as the better GE candidate than Obama, which is the same thing Sanders is doing presently, so I'm not sure I need to imagine it.

I think we both know that saying you'd do better against the opposing party's candidate is much different than saying the opposing party's candidate is better qualified to be president. Especially when Bernie has almost unanimously done better in GE polls, as little as they may mean atm.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Man, have you actually listened to a Bernie speech in the last month? How someone can tell a straight, bold-faced lie like this is weird to me.

Speeches are a single part of a campaign.

Bernies campaign has been floating for the past month: "Hillary is unqualified because she gave paid speeches to Wall Street in return for favors" "Hillary's campaign is laundering money" "Hillary and DNC rigging elections"

Accusations potentially damaging, and completely unfounded.

Stay in for as long as you want Bernie. Stop giving Trump ammo.

 

[digdug2k]

I just think he's dumb because its a complete waste of money. He's not "pulling anyone left". Heck, they were both equally left when the fucking primary started. There was barely anything to pull.

He could give the rest of his cash reserves to a few down ticket races that he personally endorses and literally have given more than 10x what he managed to raise in his last PR "fund raise" for them, AND then that cash actually has a chance to make a difference in policy in the US. Or fuck, he could give it to the red cross and save actual lives if he wanted. But spending it on ad buys is just burning it for nothing.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Man, have you actually listened to a Bernie speech in the last month? How someone can tell a straight, bold-faced lie like this is weird to me.




Wait, did someone call Clinton inexperienced?

This is the problem that Sanders faces. The media is only going to cover him when he does something new. So if 98% of his speech is the same stump that he has been doing for months and 2% is a new attack on Clinton, guess what gets broadcast? He can talk about income inequality till the cows come home but that message is going to get completely ignored for a news cycle if he also accuses Clinton of money laundering.

He is in a delicate situation and I would really like him to realize it and step up.

 

[Monocle]

What a pain in the neck. I'd be fine with this if Bernie's campaign didn't have so many problematic elements like overzealous supporters and stupid attacks on Hillary. I would have voted for him if I thought he had practical solutions and a chance to make real progress.

 

[Big Baybee]

Speeches are a single part of a campaign.

Bernies campaign has been floating for the past month: "Hillary is unqualified because she gave paid speeches to Wall Street in return for favors" "Hillary's campaign is laundering money" "Hillary and DNC rigging elections"

Accusations potentially damaging, and completely unfounded.

Stay in for as long as you want Bernie. Stop giving Trump ammo.

Stop your bold face lying, breh.

 

[Prodigal Son]

This is the problem that Sanders faces. The media is only going to cover him when he does something new. So if 98% of his speech is the same stump that he has been doing for months and 2% is a new attack on Clinton, guess what gets broadcast? He can talk about income inequality till the cows come home but that message is going to get completely ignored for a news cycle if he also accuses Clinton of money laundering.

He is in a delicate situation and I would really like him to realize it and step up.

Very good point.

Speeches are a single part of a campaign.

Bernies campaign has been floating for the past month: "Hillary is unqualified because she gave paid speeches to Wall Street in return for favors" "Hillary's campaign is laundering money" "Hillary and DNC rigging elections"

Accusations potentially damaging, and completely unfounded.

Stay in for as long as you want Bernie. Stop giving Trump ammo.

Not only are these accusations not unfounded (that's besides the point anyway), he has completely backtracked on the 'unqualified' thing. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but when has Sanders called Clinton unqualified since the New York gaffe where he thought was responding to something she had accused him of?

Sanders definitely got tagged for it a few weeks back, regardless of whether it was his intent to do so. I suppose you could attribute the more benign explanation that he just didn't realize ahead of time that the comment wouldn't play well and would be the only thing anyone reported on from the daily iteration of his stump speech.

Still, a gaffe is a gaffe.

It was a gaffe because it was a low-blow response to a statement Hillary never made. It doesn't mean what he said was incorrect. Regardless, the use of the word unqualified had nothing to do with experience and I think most people understand that.

 

[Balphon]

Wait, did someone call Clinton inexperienced?

Sanders definitely got tagged for it a few weeks back, regardless of whether it was his intent to do so. I suppose you could attribute the more benign explanation that he just didn't realize ahead of time that the comment wouldn't play well and would be the only thing anyone reported on from the daily iteration of his stump speech.

Still, a gaffe is a gaffe.

I think we both know that saying you'd do better against the opposing party's candidate is much different than saying the opposing party's candidate is better qualified to be president. Especially when Bernie has almost unanimously done better in GE polls, as little as they may mean atm.

Yeah, it's definitely a bad look. Probably a testament to how caustic the '08 primary really was.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Not only are these accusations not unfounded (that's besides the point anyway), he has completely backtracked on the 'unqualified' thing. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but when has Sanders called Clinton unqualified since the New York gaffe where he thought was responding to something she had accused him of?

I was giving an overview.

His assertion of unqualified was backtracked when it didn't play well. He's still running with the Wall-Street favors shtick. Unfounded. The allegations of impropriety from Hillary and the DNC on elections and turnout. Unfounded and blatantly stupid. The campaigns most recent asspull is the money laundering charge. Unfounded.

These aren't the moves of a campaign that realizes the battle is over, or one looking for any form of unity among the like-minded.

It scares me. Donald Trump should be a rallying moment for our side.

 

[Prodigal Son]

I was giving an overview.

His assertion of unqualified was backtracked when it didn't play well. He's still running with the Wall-Street favors shtick. Unfounded. The allegations of impropriety from Hillary and the DNC on elections and turnout. Unfounded and blatantly stupid. The campaigns most recent asspull is the money laundering charge. Unfounded.

These aren't the moves of a campaign that realizes the battle is over, or one looking for any form of unity among the like-minded.

It scares me. Donald Trump should be a rallying moment for our side.

Be scared. Clinton is a fucking awful candidate and there's way more excitement in the Trump-base than there will ever be for Clinton. Dems should have gone with Biden.

if you've taken a look at any part of Clinton's political life for the past 20 years, you wouldn't conclude her shifty corporate ties are unfounded. They aren't. Again, besides the point. He hasn't called her unqualified since (and has even backtracked as far as saying she's very qualified). He's criticizing her judgement and her judgment should be criticized.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

I mean it's pretty obvious he's pandering to Bernie folks but I have faith most of them aren't so stupid they won't see his game.

Hope IS a strategy!

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Can someone explain why #DropOutHillary is trending on Facebook and Twitter?

 

[Kangi]

Can someone explain why #DropOutHillary is trending on Facebook and Twitter?

Groups of Sanders supporters are upset at calls for Bernie to drop out, so they came up with the brilliant retort of, "NO YOU".

 

[norm9]

Can someone explain why #DropOutHillary is trending on Facebook and Twitter?

Momentum!!!!