derExperte
Member
Say what?
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NVIDIA: PS4 GPU 3x less powerful than Titan, but more powerful than Xbox 720
- Thread starter gembel
- Start date
Say what?
I believe he's saying the difference between IQ and framerate on PC and console is meaningless to the average person which I think is an obvious statement. Enthusiast gamers will make a big deal on the difference between 720 and PS4 or PS4 and Titan because that's part of what makes you an enthusiast. It's still a niche market though.
Something like Oculus Rift though is different. That can be a real game changer.
VR is going to be as popular as 3D with active glasses, since they're the same in terms of comfort. IQ differences will not be apparent unless under 400x zoom since both will be at 1080p and Supersampling requires A LOT of power. It's diminishing returns really.
googleplex
Member
nVidia and AMD's systems for calculating TFlops were very different back then, for some reason. nVidia heavily inflated the PS3's numbers. Several people have said it was closer to 200 GFlops, pretty much the same as the 360's but with a worse architecture. PS4 is about 9 times that and Durango is rumored to be 6 times that, both with substantially improved architectures and feature sets.
Yes, GPU Flops in fact. You know, as they labeled the Y axis in their chart. You can debate the meaningfulness of that number (though I believe that has been done to death on GAF, so forgive me if I do not partake), but you can't say that they're not being clear about their claims.
Nah. Consoles will likely be 1080p with some post-AA, that stuff still has plenty of distracting artifacts.
As for your predictions about the popularity of VR, we will see.
Hilarious haha.
Beerman462
Member
I played ME3, Just Cause 2 and some others on the PC. Yes having higher resolutions and framerate are nice but not really worth giving up an UI that's designed to be navigatable only via a single controller, and trophies(Steam Achievements are a joke)
What I'm saying is that's this gen. We have a hard limit of 1080p as 4K, VR are all going to be niche for the duration of the next generation consoles, that's why I don't see PC gaming being very appealing over console gaming when graphics advantages are compared.
None of those are not even mid-market let alone mass-market.
If a game is made with consoles and PC in mind the UI will be the same I don't understand what you are talking about here. My 360 controller works fine for controller supported games. I couldn't care less about trophies/achievements because I play games for entertainment not epeen comparisons. 1080p is not a hard limit on PC as we have 2560x1440 monitors and downsampling.
I said the same, but I think they were covering their bases for Durango ports, since it's rumoured to have 8gb of DDR3. Now they have the ram amount plus higher bandwidth for pushing more intensive graphical features and options.
Anyway, I reckon PS4 has plenty of juice. Titan is just pure daylight robbery of the highest margins.
Shogmaster
Member
Funny that nVidia is so conveniently ignoring that crazy price increase. Awful PR drivel this is...
Portugeezer
Member
I didn't specify GPU, however I don't know if PS3 being 2x the FLOPS is correct or if I'm not remembering correctly.
RibbedHero
Member
Just wait 2 years and you'll get Titan performance for $250. The 780 is rumoured to be 90% of the Titan's performance at $600-700, so prices are dropping fast, especially when Nvidia starts facing some competition from AMD.
Don't you mean "halving" instead?
And really I can't help but see Nvidia statements as partially sour grapes as they couldn't be on consoles as they have no x86 core to offer, which is what Sony and MS wanted from the start from the sounds of things.
Popular in regards to console gaming, maybe (console makers are avoiding it for a reason), popular in regards to PC gaming? That's another story, there's been plenty of buzz in the industry and if Valve's VR commitment is true then it's here to stay. To the average console gamer the IQ doesn't matter all that much now either on current gen, it's the ones who want something better that make the switch. I don't see that changing come next gen.
It isn't. Nvidia lied and grossly oversold RSX's capabilities. Even though they stated a much higher flop count than Xenos, in the end Xenos was the far more capable GPU. Basically Nvidia are full of shit and Cell really did prove to be pivotal to the PS3s tech prowess.
Truespeed
Member
Nvidia, we understand. No console maker wanted your high priced GPU's. But, can you blame them when all you do is overpromise and underdeliver? You've burned your bridges in the mobile space with your severely disappointing Tegra line of SOC's and now you're lashing out at the console makers. It's like you're trying too hard to stay relevant.
Are you actually saying PC has been unpopular for console ports this gen?? This has been the single best generation for console to PC ports occurring. That will only continue to improve now that the consoles are running entirely PC-derived architectures.
It will be interesting, I'm just hoping we'll see some crazy graphics next gen as this gen has stretched a little too long for me. I'm curious to see what happens with the hardcore crowd if MS can't match Sony in power assuming most other things are even (online, pricing).
Portugeezer
Member
Ok, that makes sense.
Yeah I was talking about the meaningfulness of simply comparing FLOPS for gaming performance. They are being clear though, as you said, so no real problems there I guess.
shinobi602
Member
Perfect.
Dreams-Visions
Member
TLDR: "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Heat/wattage.
People want small slick console cases versus something in HTPC territory to be able to actually handle modern pc specs.
Personally I would have been fine with something in the htpc territory lol.
Now you're pushing the limits of reality. E.g. the GTX680 has been out for over a year and the price has hardly roughly dropped by $100. If it drops by another $100 over the next year it will still not have reached the $250 mark... And you expect to get a titan on GTX780 for $250 in 2 years time with so little market competition and customers who are snapping up grossly overpriced cards like candy?
painful fart
Member
One reason could be that the pc lost their perpetual RAM advantage. And even if they will have more RAM it will be hard to develop games (generate resources/textures etc) to take advantage of it. The PS360 was starved on memory right from the start.
I get that AMDs margins are small with the consoles, but surely a tiny bit of 150 million is better than a lot of 20 million? This not counting the fact that AMD still also sell a huge number of GPUs in the desktop market, and will probably get even more sales from future Gaikai AMD units for cloud services.
You can't turn on your PC, launch a game, exit, launch another game easily when only using a controller and not all games support controllers.
Sales/revenue of PC ports is miniscule compared to console versions, they only exist because they cost next to nothing to make. This will still be the case next gen.
It'll be as popular as 3D with active glasses due to comfort.
Far fewer people will find it worth it to switch to PC next gen due much less IQ difference. And you're still not going to get PC exclusives that push graphics and therefore use your GPU to its full potential.
Yeah, and don't forget the rush on high-end cards that will happen when the consumer Rift hits the shelves
I also agree with the post above that far fewer people will likely make the jump from console to PC this generation. The IQ differences will be far less obvious. In the past it was SD vs HD, followed by 720p (if that) vs 1080p, and now it's basically 1080p vs 1080p. You don't really need more than that, especially not for TV gaming from normal viewing distances. Hell I'm playing Bioshock Infinite maxed out at 1080p and the IQ is blisteringly sharp.
The day when this term is banned will be a great day
We've reached, or almost reached, the required fidelity levels for most people, true. However, companies will soon start touting and pumping out their ray-tracing engines and the games that will eventually use those will look night and day better than what we have now. I believe it was estimated we would need around 15 to 20tflops to comfortably start running large scale games utilizing ray-tracing - discounting the fact that there will likely be hardware modifications/innovations that improve how efficiently those flops are utilized in a ray-tracing application/engine.
I.e. this graphical power train is not going to be stopping any time soon
You don't seem to understand, cards like the GTX660 are faster than old high end cards like the GTX480 with only a 2 or so year difference and yet only cost $230.
So it is not impossible.
I think nVidia's just been going by the leaks/rumors although they may have gotten their information from other sources than we have. They were commenting directly on the PS4's CPU before even though nothing official aside from number of cores has been announced. Not saying that I think it won't be a Jaguar, just commenting on what nVidia seems to be referring to.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
i think we'll be seeing more people jump to pc unless consoles move beyond the traditional controller in some way. pc is just getting better and better at being a living room centrepiece, it's the one console future.
im still buying a ps4 day one though.
Surpise they didnt do sli to make it worse.
Lol yeah right its going to flop.Yeah, and don't forget the rush on high-end cards that will happen when the consumer Rift hits the shelves
Perhaps fan-atics would be a better choice given we are all fanboys with our own biases to a degree.
Why is Nvidia saying it's 3x when in reality the flop difference isnt even 2.5x? That's among other things that are wrong in the chart.
Happens when you choose graph smoothing.
Nope.360 was ahead of it's time.
PS3 budget GPU
+1
Nvidia mistakenly owning up to previously providing fudged numbers. Regardl
Because of this:
To put forth such a comparison would have ramifications. I think they somehow know more about XB3's innards than general consumers.
8GB GDDR
The fuck? $250 US dollars? Are you sure? I planned on getting a 720 & PS4 at launch anyway and waiting about 2 years to do a totally new PC build. If what you say is true I'll be sooo gravy dropping $400 bucks on a card. Sure my current PC will lag a bit but that'll be like having 2 next Gen jumps (or 1 & a half, depending on devs starting to use that power). Shit sounds good to me. As a gamer who just wants good games that play well I'm pumped!
I think it can mean halving in some dialects. Like if you get kicked in the stomach really hard and fold over, I've seen it written as "doubling over". So it may depend on the region of the poster I guess.
Nvidia is purposely trying to play dumb here, mainly like some one else said they have no horse in the (console) race. They've seen that the PS4 has gotten fairly decent coverage since the reveal so attaching any PS4 (& now Durango) related comment is bound to get more playtime.
They very well know that the due to the limitation of the consoles, a GPU like Titan is completely out of the question, heck even a GK104 is. If you look at the PS4 GPU from a TDP perspective, it's actually the smart choice;
Tahiti = 7970, Kepler = Titan (in the above graph)
They very well know that the due to the limitation of the consoles, a GPU like Titan is completely out of the question, heck even a GK104 is. If you look at the PS4 GPU from a TDP perspective, it's actually the smart choice;
Tahiti = 7970, Kepler = Titan (in the above graph)
Again that remains to be seen, it offers a whole lot more than those 3D glasses do, and Valve is possibly going to be a major player in its support. I'm going to wager that VR will bring more people into PC gaming than IQ did. It's not the same ballpark in the PC space.
Again Star Citizen, Rome II and ArmA 3 are pushing PC hardware in the near future. That remains to be seen especially as 4K begins gaining prominence and 60fps remains. Also the IQ difference was less of a reason compared to better looking multiplats, cheap prices and more exclusives. That's not changing come next gen, especially if the living room PC push is successful.
rahulkadukar
Member
Listen very carefully dude.
PS4 has 8 GB DDR5 RAM.
Titan has 6 GB DDR5 GPU RAM.
If you do not know the difference then don't say shit
All that graph says to me is:
Console: bought/relax for 6 - 10 years
PC: Upgrade/upgrade/upgrade/upgrade/upgrade ...
With ONE graphic card you could play all of Ps3 and 360 games on PC. you just need to upgrade again, how do you think progress is made? By walking or Jumping?
GDDR5!
Oh Durante. Don't you mean pre crap?
Beerman462
Member
True, but the other way to look at this is that with the PC you have a choice of game pad, keyboard/mouse, mouse/nostromo type device etc etc etc