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Official Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix thread
- Thread starter Jim
- Start date
talking head
Member
so where the hell is this ugly guile art anyway?
I was going to post that his design has always been off imo but thats a personal taste thing. He has a hunch back in Street fighter 2.kammy said:
according to the blog they are trying to keep the hit detection exact by having some of the pickiest street fighter 2 players check it out.Zoramon089 said:
Jirotrom said:
Not just check it out, they're ON the team . There's other Evo players on the team as well.
Icomeinpeace
Banned
Raging Spaniard said:
Hence why the "remix" on the title, they are actually giving it a new look to the old sprites, what I did with Cammy was the opposite I just traced and went with it (it's not refined just wanted to experiment). Udon has a lot of talented folks like Arnold Tsang, his work was even on the Vampire Graphic File arbook (Capcom of Japan game art line of books) but Udon also has a lot of artists that are aren't as good or on the same level as the top guys, this is in my opinion the reason why some sprites and characters look better than others, everyone at Udon is working on the game.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Jirotrom said:
I reckon it's the part where he mentions Montreal and NDAs.
# Sirlin Says:The Take Out Bandit said:
April 14th, 2007 at 9:37 am
polarity: Nope, I have nothing for your fears. There are no new frames, and you get what you get. Its not even remotely my call whether they would ship or not ship the game over the smoothness of animation. That would probably not even make it onto the radar as a no ship situation, and adding frames is beyond the scope of the project. It does seem like higher resolution will make it more of an issue, but Im not sure if it will really will in practice. Maybe it will just not be that big of a deal though, well see.
Sirlin
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Jirotrom said:
OMG!
He am breaking NDA!
kammy said:
It's here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6745933&postcount=1
They have also previewed Akuma and Ken frames. Since you liked what you've seen so far (the Ryu prototype) tell me if you like the Guile frames or think they are a heaping pile. So far everything I've seen has been nice, save Guile. Either the shittiest dude on team Udon did Guile or the 'Ken'-guy was having a bad week.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Icomeinpeace said:
No theyre not giving it a new look, theyre making it look like their American comic books look, which are highly influenced by the Animated SF II Movie.
Just because its higher res doesnt mean the art is better. I agree this stuff is a step beyond the original SF2, but the style used in Alpha and III is much more appealing to me, regardless of how sharp it is (and theres a difference between stylized anatomy -big feet- and ass backwards terrible anatomy -broken fingers, 50 new muscle groups, etc-)
to the person that said:
"and that great description of 'bad art' as something that fails to represent what something really looks like or whatever that sillyness was... i bet you have a real hard time understanding impressionism and cubism and on and on."
are you serious? I understand impressionism and cubism.
are you an artist yourself?
this is retarded..by your definition, you can draw a character that is supposed to be *human* anyway you want for a *product*, in this case a game, right? exaggerations and stylizations are acceptable, but you have to keep it consistently. you can't draw an arm with 50 muscles and decide to change them for the next drawing. do you understand the concept of anatomy?
"and that great description of 'bad art' as something that fails to represent what something really looks like or whatever that sillyness was... i bet you have a real hard time understanding impressionism and cubism and on and on."
are you serious? I understand impressionism and cubism.
are you an artist yourself?
this is retarded..by your definition, you can draw a character that is supposed to be *human* anyway you want for a *product*, in this case a game, right? exaggerations and stylizations are acceptable, but you have to keep it consistently. you can't draw an arm with 50 muscles and decide to change them for the next drawing. do you understand the concept of anatomy?
SentientStone
Member
I am very much looking forward to this title! Still cannot imagine how good this will look in HD (animation won't be up to par but good enough). I am already satisfied with the way Guilty Gear XX looks upscaled, so this should be even more amazing.
Next month's release of HD Super Puzzle Fighter should tie me over until they release this.
Next month's release of HD Super Puzzle Fighter should tie me over until they release this.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
Here's my take on a HD cammy.
Took a while... and I dunno... I think after working on it, the original SF2 sprites had munted proportions to begin with. So kudos to Udon for doing so well within such a tight restriction.
There's no way I could repeat this work for a series of frames much less an entire character set either.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Oh boy, the art wars. To be honest I think when a whole lot of fans think about "high res" Street Fighter art drawn in a classical style from the heyday of the game, they more imagine stuff like Bengus' work:
Yes, in a lot of his Classic Capcom Years, Bengus had his own flaws: like how everybody here has a shrunken mid-section making their arms look a little freakishly long. However, it's /not/ really "animu" style, but merely manga-influenced. Also, a trademark in my eyes anyway, is a certain kind of interlocking mechanical practicality in how anatomy is rendered. It's not about being totally realistic, but rather looking mechanically sound and balanced - joints look like joints, fingers look as if they can correctly articulate, the character looks limber even when muscled up. This is all regardless of the overall stylization of the art.
I feel the issue many have with a lot of the Udon work being shown is that it /tries/ to evoke the classic era of Capcom production and showpiece artwork in its colors and form but much of the time (not all of the time) doesn't really have the underlying foundation to pull it off. With stuff like the Guile Doomsprite, it looks as if the artist just kept drawing all sorts of bulges and stuff on top of one another and couldn't, or chose not to, visualize how the character's body would /move/ and function /between/ poses. We actually see this ethic show up more in that dreaded "animu" art that GAF so loves to hate, because duh - the style of rendering commonly originating with animation is intended to make it easy to visualize movement. With the classic Capcom stuff (and also a lot of classic SNK stuff, for instance) we just saw a heavily rendered, shaded, artistic take layered over such a base. Which again IMHO, is one reason why that old art was so attractive and distinctive.
(I don't really like trying to play art critic. I'm also not really bashing Udon style here; just observing on why I think some people do not like what they're seeing in relation to what they may be imagining it "should" be like.)
Yes, in a lot of his Classic Capcom Years, Bengus had his own flaws: like how everybody here has a shrunken mid-section making their arms look a little freakishly long. However, it's /not/ really "animu" style, but merely manga-influenced. Also, a trademark in my eyes anyway, is a certain kind of interlocking mechanical practicality in how anatomy is rendered. It's not about being totally realistic, but rather looking mechanically sound and balanced - joints look like joints, fingers look as if they can correctly articulate, the character looks limber even when muscled up. This is all regardless of the overall stylization of the art.
I feel the issue many have with a lot of the Udon work being shown is that it /tries/ to evoke the classic era of Capcom production and showpiece artwork in its colors and form but much of the time (not all of the time) doesn't really have the underlying foundation to pull it off. With stuff like the Guile Doomsprite, it looks as if the artist just kept drawing all sorts of bulges and stuff on top of one another and couldn't, or chose not to, visualize how the character's body would /move/ and function /between/ poses. We actually see this ethic show up more in that dreaded "animu" art that GAF so loves to hate, because duh - the style of rendering commonly originating with animation is intended to make it easy to visualize movement. With the classic Capcom stuff (and also a lot of classic SNK stuff, for instance) we just saw a heavily rendered, shaded, artistic take layered over such a base. Which again IMHO, is one reason why that old art was so attractive and distinctive.
(I don't really like trying to play art critic. I'm also not really bashing Udon style here; just observing on why I think some people do not like what they're seeing in relation to what they may be imagining it "should" be like.)
MobiusPigeon
Banned
Crayon Shinchan said:
Here's my take on a HD cammy.
Took a while... and I dunno... I think after working on it, the original SF2 sprites had munted proportions to begin with. So kudos to Udon for doing so well within such a tight restriction.
There's no way I could repeat this work for a series of frames much less an entire character set either.
you guys need to stop. again not saying these are BAD in particular. pretty nice drawings but both attemps so far look like midgets or trolls or something. :lol actually you know what? keep the attempts coming. they just prove how good the udon work actually is. :lol
MobiusPigeon
Banned
and all work so far looks spectacular. even guile. besides his evil looking eyes. :lol all the bitching is retarded.
wow -- did the original cammy sprite really have no midsection? there's nothing between her tits and her hips. i doubt two gafers made that mistake independently, and it looks really weird at a high resolution. i guess that highlights one of the difficulties of what udon's doing here.
Crayon Shinchan said:
Here's my take on a HD cammy.
Took a while... and I dunno... I think after working on it, the original SF2 sprites had munted proportions to begin with. So kudos to Udon for doing so well within such a tight restriction.
There's no way I could repeat this work for a series of frames much less an entire character set either.
You guys wanna try that on Morrigan? I hear there is some sort of Succubus curse that makes pencil lead break and computers crash if anyone tries to redraw her.
Crayon Shinchan said:
Here's my take on a HD cammy.
Took a while... and I dunno... I think after working on it, the original SF2 sprites had munted proportions to begin with. So kudos to Udon for doing so well within such a tight restriction.
There's no way I could repeat this work for a series of frames much less an entire character set either.
That's really cute, my only complaint is she has no real waist. Anyways, that is cute, nice job.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just wonder why people complain about realism. We're talking about characters who do Hadokens for goodness sakes. We're talking about characters who, upon the next round their wounds are completely healed.
As Link from Wind Waker would say "Come on!"
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Kaijima said:
THAT IS WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE! But they don't want to pay for the actual artist or whatever. Imagine a SF game with characters of that exact quality!
.gif)
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Ether_Snake said:
Yes, because "the actual artist" would HIMSELF redraw every single frame for the whole game.
Come on now, thats not how games work.
They COULD have setup the Alpha style guide and go for that, but in those Alpha illustrations the awesome lies on the COLOR WORK which Capcom USA has already acknowledged that eventually they would like to get to that l;evel of color detail.
I dont defend these guys much, but I give them props for trying this out, see if it sticks and if it does, then maybe go insane for the next project. Rock on.
Dali said:
Sounds like fun, I'll give it a shot
Icomeinpeace
Banned
drohne said:
I've uploaded the original sprite blown up to the same res, there's definitely a lot of room for interpretation as far as the redraws are concerned:
Morrigan is a good pick I'll try to drawn her next.
bigben85 said:
Good idea, I'll check it out on my DC. I stretched the image but I eyeballed the ratio.
I want to see it.Raging Spaniard said:Yes, because "the actual artist" would HIMSELF redraw every single frame for the whole game.
Come on now, thats not how games work.
They COULD have setup the Alpha style guide and go for that, but in those Alpha illustrations the awesome lies on the COLOR WORK which Capcom USA has already acknowledged that eventually they would like to get to that l;evel of color detail.
I dont defend these guys much, but I give them props for trying this out, see if it sticks and if it does, then maybe go insane for the next project. Rock on.
Sounds like fun, I'll give it a shot
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
The Take Out Bandit said:
You couldn't do half as good a job bandit. It's not like the limitations are easy to work within. And when you consider you have to animate the sumbitches... Anyway, you are an artist; instead of sitting on an internet board and talking shit... why don't you pull out your pens and redo the sprite within the limitation of its outline? The original sprite proportions blow, so good luck.
That's the best I could do...
If you do better (than Udon) you'll have free reign in criticism over their work AND kudos from your fellow forum goers!
The Take Out Bandit
Member
:lol
Sorry dude, I've got enough shit on my plate to work on.
I'm not here bragging about my skills, I'm just pointing out that Udon is lacking compared to real Capcom staff. If they gave Jo Chen or Arnold Tsang free reign on the visuals, things would no doubt be better.
Unfortunately this is total sweatshop bitchwork.
The end result is the same.
I don't buy their shitty comics.
I won't buy their shitty game.
Try calling out Shogmaster.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
The Take Out Bandit said:
Point is they DON'T have free reign on the visuals. They have arcade style hit detection boxes that they need to fit in.... as such, the characters have to remain in pretty much their same stances; in a single frame, you have some amount of lee-way... but you're not going to get much lee-way when the thing starts animating; if you're not matching the original sprite, it's going to start animating in a way that doesn't make sense!
All you got is a shitty mouth. Get outta here!
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Crayon Shinchan said:
Well I guess then I'm happy with the Street Fighter 2 I've got, not some crappy Canadian Mod-Pack.
I reckon that cancels out your mouth full of Udon cock, like a shotoclone fireball.
killdatninja
Banned
i think they're doing a good job considering the limitations on the sprites. On a side note, I'm hoping they release picture packs for the HDremix soon.
I don't agree with Take Out Bandit's haterade on Udon but he doesn't need to provide his own counter-art just to critisize what they've done with this so far. The poor execution more than speaks for itself.
There's many ways to get past the hit detection problem. It only requires knowledge of where to keep what and make a skeleton out of that alone then flesh it out from there.
There's many ways to get past the hit detection problem. It only requires knowledge of where to keep what and make a skeleton out of that alone then flesh it out from there.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
turk128 said:
And this statement just shows you how little you understand how things work.
I'm not a big fan of udon, despite my defense of them; just my first hand experience leads me to understand that; they're doing pretty well given the limitations.
You can't 'flesh it out'
The boundaries of the hitboxes are often the outlines of the characters themselves. The only room for freedom lies within the character outlines. Given that, the task is far from easy, you could've seen far worse then what Udon has shown so far... like my stuff or that other guy that tried his hand at it.
I guess I don't know that much at all... just enough to know that badly tracing the original pixels is the wrong way to go. If you're satisfied with poorly executed looking frames then that's fine, but doesn't prevent it from being poorly executed.Crayon Shinchan said:
Like spoon! sarcastic remark indicates, it's clear that this is coming from a team that's not up to the challenge. And now Capcom is stepping in. Don't know why they didn't do it earlier since this has so much potential for so much more.