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[Oblivion]

Okay, this is something I've been wondering ever since this game came out. For those of you that aren't familiar, a quick summary. In MM, you have two ways to save your progress. MM gameplay is structured on a 3-day time system. If you play the song of time, you return you to the dawn of the very first day, and all your progress (minus perishable items like arrows, deku nuts, etc.) is saved. But the game also includes "temporary" saves, which you can do by approaching various owl statues scattered throughout the game world. If you save your progress here, EVERYTHING you've done up until that point is saved until that very moment the next time your restart.

But here's where the fun begins. If you load the game from a previous save on an owl statue, but forget to save on an owl statue on your current playthrough, the next time you load the game, you'll start from your last save from when you played the song of time. In other words, you start back on the very first day! So for example, say you've managed to work your way through a dungeon, and you get that dungeon's item, but stop short of fighting the dungeon boss, and wish to complete it later. But you forget to save at an owl statue, you lose all the progress you made up until that point and have to restart both the dungeon and all the side quests and such that you need to access that dungeon to begin with.

You would think that if you forget to save at an owl statue, the game would let you resume from the last owl statue you saved at. But it doesn't work like that for some reason. I'd like to know if that was intentional or if it was due to certain technical constraints based on how the game was set up (I seriously doubt this, but I'd like to hear otherwise).

 

[Kyou]

Owl Statue saving wasn't even in the Japanese version, it was added to make the game easier for the west.

 

[Mango The Magician]

I'm not sure why they chose to use the save system the way they did, all I know is that it's terrible and has legitimately screwed me over multiple times.

 

[blamite]

Seems like it's meant to keep you from redoing part of a cycle if you mess it up halfway through. No matter what, if you can't get everything done that you wanted to, you have to start the cycle from the beginning rather than "cheating" the system by just optimizing the second half of it.

 

[Kaybe]

I'd say it's intentional. Since you're on a time limit, you have to make what you do count, and starting over from a point into the cycle would remove the urgency.

 

[emgeejay]

The save functionality of owl statues was hacked into the US release of the game (originally they were just warp points), so I wouldn't be surprised if there's some technical limitation.

Edit: beaten

 

[SkyTurnsRed]

Having not played MM, are you saying it essentially deletes the owl save if you turned the game off after loading an owl save?

 

[WhoaIsThatMars]

Screwed my save up once when I first played through it when it came out. I realized how it worked and it turned out to be my favorite Zelda game anyways.

 

[Htown]

So it basically acts like a "resume" save like in a handheld game?

 

[blamite]

Now that I think about it, I guess the owl statues are also the basis for the quick save sytem in the New Super Mario Bros. games? Although it's obviously way less important in those, it's basically the same idea of a temporary save file that's deleted the first time you load it.

 

[Oblivion]

Seems like it's meant to keep you from redoing part of a cycle if you mess it up halfway through. No matter what, if you can't get everything done that you wanted to, you have to start the cycle from the beginning rather than "cheating" the system by just optimizing the second half of it.

I'd say it's intentional. Since you're on a time limit, you have to make what you do count, and starting over from a point into the cycle would remove the urgency.

But the problem with that is that you could still "game" the system by going back and finding an owl statue. You can still try and mess with it, though it takes a little bit more trouble to do so.

Having not played MM, are you saying it essentially deletes the owl save if you turned the game off after loading an owl save?

That's exactly right.

 

[The Awesomest]

So it basically acts like a "resume" save like in a handheld game?

Basically.

 

[Haunted]

Owls are basically suspend saves.


The problem is that the game doesn't really tell you this (iirc), leading to confused players who thought it'd count as a proper save.

 

[Hyperactivity]

So it's like a quick save

 

[Khaz]

So it basically acts like a "resume" save like in a handheld game?

From what he is saying, It does.

OP, this is a temporary save you're speaking of. They are used to suspend / resume your game, but as soon as you resume they are deleted, in order to prevent cheating. it doesn't take precedence over the normal saves which you can load over and over again.

Once you have resumed your game, if you fuck up you'll get back to your previously normally saved game.

 

[Jezan]

I have never used an owl to save because I was scared of messing up. Song of Time all the way! (but that was when I had more time to play, now I would use the owl)

 

[blamite]

But the problem with that is that you could still "game" the system by going back and finding an owl statue. You can still try and mess with it, though it takes a little bit more trouble to do so.

Right, but by going to another owl statue, you're still using up time on your current cycle. Basically the point is to prevent you from being able to redo any part of a cycle without consequence.

 

[MegalonJJ]

Owl Statue saving wasn't even in the Japanese version, it was added to make the game easier for the west.

How would you save in the Japanese release? Was there a save system at all or was it like Ocarina of Time (i.e. save anywhere/anytime but start in your house).

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Owls are quick saves, it's intentional and it works great.

How would you save in the Japanese release? Was there a save system at all or was it like Ocarina of Time (i.e. save anywhere/anytime but start in your house).

You save by going back to the first day with the song of time.

 

[Kaybe]

How would you save in the Japanese release? Was there a save system at all or was it like Ocarina of Time (i.e. save anywhere/anytime but start in your house).

You had to play Song of Time, i.e restarting the cycle.
bea10

 

[Marjar]

I know why they did it, but I always thought it was just an unnecessary inconvenience that made the game a chore at times.

You should just be able to hard save at owl statues like the statues in Skyward Sword.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Owls are quick saves, it's intentional and it works great.



You save by going back to the first day with the song of time.

.

The statues specifically explain it every time, too.

 

[The Adder]

But you forget to save at a save point, you lose all the progress you made up until that point and have to restart both the dungeon and all the side quests and such that you need to access that dungeon to begin with.

I don't see the difference.

You would think that if you forget to save at an owl statue, the game would let you resume from the last owl statue you saved at. But it doesn't work like that for some reason. I'd like to know if that was intentional or if it was due to certain technical constraints based on how the game was set up (I seriously doubt this, but I'd like to hear otherwise).

Intentional. The game isn't meant to be save scummable.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Seriously though, there should be a save system that is permanent that doesn't use the Song of Time. What MM does is just straight up flawed. I get that it might take away from whatever sense of urgency there is, but saving should take precedence over theming.

 

[Oblivion]

Wait, there are other games that use this quick/suspend/temporary save system?

I've played quite a few games in my time and I literally cannot think of any other game that I've encountered that has those.

 

[The Adder]

Wait, there are other games that use this quick/suspend/temporary save system?

I've played quite a few games in my time and I literally cannot think of any other game that I've encountered like that has those.

Advance Wars

 

[Jamix012]

It's a Quick Save.
The idea is that you can't just go back and correct your mistakes without going all the way back, you're actually punished for fucking up, rather than letting you cheat the system and go back.

Wait, there are other games that use this quick/suspend/temporary save system?

I've played quite a few games in my time and I literally cannot think of any other game that I've encountered that has those.

Advance Wars (as mentioned above) and Fire Emblem come to mind.

 

[Molemitts]

I honestly never had a problem with Majora's saving system. Even when I was young and sucked at video games. It's just like saving at check points it's no big deal, really.

 

[Ushojax]

The owls are like quick saves in Dragon Quest. They're a suspend save, not your actual game save.

 

[blamite]

Seriously though, there should be a save system that is permanent that doesn't use the Song of Time. What MM does is just straight up flawed. I get that it might take away from whatever sense of urgency there is, but saving should take precedence over theming.

Disagree. Time is money, and in Majora's Mask there are no refunds.

 

[Jamix012]

Seriously though, there should be a save system that is permanent that doesn't use the Song of Time. What MM does is just straight up flawed. I get that it might take away from whatever sense of urgency there is, but saving should take precedence over theming.

Nope. Disagree. It's fair punishment for your failures if you screw up a bit and have to redo. In fact I'd argue the save system is part of the reason I consider the game to be so great.

 

[Psxphile]

Okay, this is something I've been wondering ever since this game came out. For those of you that aren't familiar, a quick summary. In MM, you have two ways to save your progress. MM gameplay is structured on a 3-day time system. If you play the song of time, you return you to the dawn of the very first day, and all your progress (minus perishable items like arrows, deku nuts, etc.) is saved. But the game also includes "temporary" saves, which you can do by approaching various owl statues scattered throughout the game world. If you save your progress here, EVERYTHING you've done up until that point is saved until that very moment the next time your restart.

That sounds about right.

But here's where the fun begins. If you load the game from a previous save on an owl statue, but forget to save on an owl statue on your current playthrough, the next time you load the game, you'll start from your last save from when you played the song of time.

Temp saves, how do they work? Pretty standard thing for handheld games, puzzle games, strategy games.

So for example, say you've managed to work your way through a dungeon, and you get that dungeon's item, but stop short of fighting the dungeon boss, and wish to complete it later. But you forget to save at an owl statue, you lose all the progress you made up until that point and have to restart both the dungeon and all the side quests and such that you need to access that dungeon to begin with.

It's just a prevention method for cheating the system. Gotta do it in one, breh. Although I thought you kept the dungeon item once you find it, allowing you to complete the dungeon faster on the next pass?

Hm, most quests involving getting into the dungeon can be bypassed once you learn that region's song (Sonata of Awakening, Goron Lullaby, New Wave Bossa Nova, etc.).

 

[Kazerei]

Wait, there are other games that use this quick/suspend/temporary save system?

I've played quite a few games in my time and I literally cannot think of any other game that I've encountered that has those.

Etrian Odyssey
Dragon Quest (the DS games)

Edit: there's actually a TVtropes article O_O

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuspendSave

 

[Psxphile]

edit: oh, guess not

 

[Neo Child]

Dunno, but everytime I tried to save it on the Wii VC it would never save. Bought the game twice on 2 different Wii systems and it didn't work on either

 

[toythatkills]

Literally hundreds of games have this "quick save" mechanic, it makes total sense in the context of the game. Owls aren't there to save, they're there to suspend.

 

[Hyperactivity]

If they want to make it such that you can't just redo a part, they should just have save at the beginning of each day

 

[Persona7]

Dunno, but everytime I tried to save it on the Wii VC it would never save. Bought the game twice on 2 different Wii systems and it didn't work on either

How did you save the game? There are only two ways to do it. Play the song of time or save at a statue temporarily.

 

[Luigi87]

I had no idea the Owl statue interrupt saves were added to the versions outside of Japan.

That being said, I really enjoyed the save system in MM. Inconvenient? Absolutely, but it meant you had to plan ahead.

 

[foxuzamaki]

How would you save in the Japanese release? Was there a save system at all or was it like Ocarina of Time (i.e. save anywhere/anytime but start in your house).

Usiing the song of time, the plus tho, is that japanese got multiple save files while we got the owls

 

[gerudoman]

I have to admit that while it really is a pain in the ass it helped conveying a feeling of risk and urgency never seen in the series, the danger of having to restart and lose some progress for taking too much time was always there. That led to some very tense moments otherwise not possible with a traditional saving system.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

My theory has always been that they wanted to play with permanence and erasure in the DD Zelda 64, never got a chance to, so they channeled some of those ideas in to Majora's Mask. That necessitated the save system as you see it.

 

[Mockingbird]

Having not played MM, are you saying it essentially deletes the owl save if you turned the game off after loading an owl save?

Yup. It's basically the interrupt save that was introduced in Game & Watch Gallery and the Fire Emblem titles.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Disagree. Time is money, and in Majora's Mask there are no refunds.

Nope. Disagree. It's fair punishment for your failures if you screw up a bit and have to redo. In fact I'd argue the save system is part of the reason I consider the game to be so great.

*Sigh*...I just want this fanbase to recognize that this game can have flaws, It's a great game but it's not this holy divine gift from the sky that can do no wrong. Listen, if a feature is so obtuse and cumbersome that at every turn I find myself growing ever frustrated with the game to the extent that I don't want to play it anymore, then it's a flaw. Saving is massively important to games, and put frankly I hate repetition, so in my eyes having my save deleted after I resume playing is asinine regardless of how it plays into the theme. Furthermore, having the owl statues be permanent wouldn't ruin the game, I know because every time I play the game I use the second save slot as backup of my save, yet I'm still able to enjoy it. The only real problem that arises is the fact that people could keep retrying if the moon fell, and the easy and logical way to fix that is to just have the moon overwrite any saves when it falls.

 

[Psxphile]

Literally hundreds of games have this "quick save" mechanic, it makes total sense in the context of the game. Owls aren't there to save, they're there to suspend.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Koren]

Edit: there's actually a TVtropes article O_O

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuspendSave

Yes, but for once, the game list is severely lacking. There's indeed dozens (or more probably hundreds) of games that uses this kind of trick.

Most strategy games, to begin with. Valkyria Chronicles, too, IIRC.

 

[toythatkills]

The only real problem that arises is the fact that people could keep retrying if the moon fell, and the easy and logical way to fix that is to just have the moon overwrite any saves when it falls.

That suggestion is like a million times worse than how it is at the moment.

DISCLAIMER: I didn't enjoy Majora's Mask.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Owls are basically suspend saves.


The problem is that the game doesn't really tell you this (iirc)

Yes it does

 

[K' Dash]

Owl Statue saving wasn't even in the Japanese version, it was added to make the game easier for the west.

I feel cheated

 

[GaimeGuy]

Usiing the song of time, the plus tho, is that japanese got multiple save files while we got the owls

What are you talking about? Majora's Mask has 2 save slots.