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|OT| French Presidential Elect 2017 - La France est toujours insoumise; Le Pen loses

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Geeker

Member
Anybody else watch the debate on BFMTV? AKA The Lassalle Show.

I watched it. Not native speaker so understanding what lassalle said was hard.

Id arguably say that Fillon came across as most presidential in his composure etc isolated to this debate. Keep in mind I didn't necessarily understand everything everyone said so I'm can't judge that important aspect of politics unfortunately
 

Sinsem

Member
Id arguably say that Fillon came across as most presidential in his composure etc isolated to this debate.

He got hit hard by Poutou.
None of the 6 smaller candidates was convincing enough, but they damaged Fillon and Le Pen pretty good (even Asselineau was able to attack Le Pen on her european views o_O).
The consensus seems to be that Macron was discreet enough to pass through, and Melenchon confirmed his good first debate.
 

mo60

Member
It must have been awkward for Marine Le Pen to share the stage with someone that was more extreme on her key policy plank which is frexit.Asselineau and the other minor candidates that ripped her to shreds probably damaged her defenses a bit.
 

Alx

Member
It must have been awkward for Marine Le Pen to share the stage with someone that was more extreme on her key policy plank which is frexit.Asselineau and the other minor candidates that ripped her to shreds probably damaged her defenses a bit.

Hopefully it will help classify her among the "lunatics" in the campaign. Her plans don't exactly sound the same when supported by less charismatic politicians.
It's also harder for her (and Mélenchon) to use her anti-system rhetorics when confronted to people who are just as anti-system, probably more so, and can use the same populist tricks against her.

But in the end this debate may have been pointless. It's a funny interlude in the campaign, an opportunity for the smaller candidates to bark at the bigger ones, but nothing changes in the end.
 
But in the end this debate may have been pointless. It's a funny interlude in the campaign, an opportunity for the smaller candidates to bark at the bigger ones, but nothing changes in the end.

L0FvJm8l.png


Yeah...
 
That was ridiculous. There's something cathartic to seeing Le Pen or Fillon get a taste of their aggressively populist medicine, but honestly, I didn't feel this really furthered anything.

This should be the final nail in the coffin of France 2's absurd debate scheduled a day before candidates have to stop campaigning.
 
Le Pen is gonna win, since brexit and Trump victory I have no doubt in my mind about it. Add to the fact that a lot of under 30 years old think it will be a new wake up call to have her as a president and it cement my belief.

It disgust me to think of her as my president. I don't know how I will be able to cope.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
He got hit hard by Poutou.
None of the 6 smaller candidates was convincing enough, but they damaged Fillon and Le Pen pretty good (even Asselineau was able to attack Le Pen on her european views o_O).
The consensus seems to be that Macron was discreet enough to pass through, and Melenchon confirmed his good first debate.

It must have been awkward for Marine Le Pen to share the stage with someone that was more extreme on her key policy plank which is frexit.Asselineau and the other minor candidates that ripped her to shreds probably damaged her defenses a bit.

The heck? Last time I checked - admittedly a while ago -, he was borderline far right and anti-EU, wasn't he? At the very least he's always come off as a nationalist/chauvinist to me. Man, if even he's blasting Le Pen, you know there's something wrong with her.
 

G.O.O.

Member
The heck? Last time I checked - admittedly a while ago -, he was borderline far right and anti-EU, wasn't he? At the very least he's always come off as a nationalist/chauvinist to me. Man, if even he's blasting Le Pen, you know there's something wrong with her.
Rivalry. Plus he wants to focus more on frexit and less on racism, à la Dupont-Aignan.

(he still has more than a few connexions to the far right though, but he doesn't talk about it)
 

CCS

Banned
The heck? Last time I checked - admittedly a while ago -, he was borderline far right and anti-EU, wasn't he? At the very least he's always come off as a nationalist/chauvinist to me. Man, if even he's blasting Le Pen, you know there's something wrong with her.

I mean, he was attacking her from the right not the left. Saying there shouldn't even be a referendum, just immediate Frexit.
 
Le Pen is gonna win, since brexit and Trump victory I have no doubt in my mind about it. Add to the fact that a lot of under 30 years old think it will be a new wake up call to have her as a president and it cement my belief.

It disgust me to think of her as my president. I don't know how I will be able to cope.

This is not set in Stone. She'll make a good score, that's a given. Maybe win the first round. But imo she won't win the elections. I hope I'm right.

Anyway, you have to vote and tell your friends to do the same. As usual, abstention is LePen's best ally.
 

Alx

Member
There's no such thing as a "loi des séries". Brexit and Trump victory don't mean Le Pen will win for sure, even if they should make us be more cautious and concerned. All perspectives aren't dark either, after all the underperformance of Wilders in the Netherlands should also be taken into account in the current politic landscape.
 

G.O.O.

Member
What scares me the most is this

C8QqgScXgAQmEOx.jpg


Fillon is a turd but not nearly as dangerous as MLP. If Macron is on round 2 I'm confident he'll win, but Fillon might need to get some people convinced to go out.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Rivalry. Plus he wants to focus more on frexit and less on racism, à la Dupont-Aignan.

(he still has more than a few connexions to the far right though, but he doesn't talk about it)

I mean, he was attacking her from the right not the left. Saying there shouldn't even be a referendum, just immediate Frexit.

Oh. Fuck him then.

@Meadows: unlike in the US, we directly vote for our candidates. There's no representation shenanigans, apart from choosing who's going to be the official candidate for the big parties. But even that's subject to the public's vote. That alone lowers Le Pen's chances of winning. With that said, she does have a chance of winning, and I'll be surprised if she doesn't at least make it to the second round. Fillon's recent scandals are making that scenario very likely.

No matter who goes up against her, even Fillon or Mélenchon, I'm voting for them. Fuck her, she needs to lose. I don't want to be Putin's puppet and to plunge France and Europe in economic disarray because a racist jingoist thought those are good ideas and a solid foundation for a presidency. Fuck. Her.
 

mo60

Member
Le Pen is gonna win, since brexit and Trump victory I have no doubt in my mind about it. Add to the fact that a lot of under 30 years old think it will be a new wake up call to have her as a president and it cement my belief.

It disgust me to think of her as my president. I don't know how I will be able to cope.

It's going to be a worse version of the Austria presidential election for the FN and Le Pen. She's going to lose most likely by anywere between 20 and 40 points on May 7th.
 

mo60

Member
Looking at the last two debates I'm not sure at this point how Le Pen is going to handle debating Macron if a second round debate does happen at this point. She's probably going to ripped to shreds by him for example when she talks about how anti-establishment she is.He should really study how some of the minor candidates where able to poke at her defenses yesterday.
 
What scares me the most is this

C8QqgScXgAQmEOx.jpg


Fillon is a turd but not nearly as dangerous as MLP. If Macron is on round 2 I'm confident he'll win, but Fillon might need to get some people convinced to go out.

I would make me verrrry happy if he ended up dropping to 4th in the polls. Pls. I'd feel safer.
 

Magni

Member
Hamon is really disappointing, though to be fair, he got dealt a _really_ shitty hand.

Macron was smart to recognize the PS brand would be too toxic to make it to the second round, and that the only chance to avoid a LR/FN second round was to run as an independent centrist.

Doesn't matter if he did it out of naked ambition or from a genuine desire to save France from that choice, the end result is the same - looks like it'll work.
 



You guys are very optimistic, it's not just about Trump and brexit, it's the climate we are living in, people are motivated by fear, the past tragedies have changed their perspective. I personally know some who were very open minded, clearly left leaning changing gear following up what happened this past few years and what's still happening.

People will not vote for someone, they will vote for what they believe will protect them from what they fear. I'm afraid xenophobia and paranoia took over rational thinking.
 

Ac30

Member
Hamon is really disappointing, though to be fair, he got dealt a _really_ shitty hand.

Macron was smart to recognize the PS brand would be too toxic to make it to the second round, and that the only chance to avoid a LR/FN second round was to run as an independent centrist.

Doesn't matter if he did it out of naked ambition or from a genuine desire to save France from that choice, the end result is the same - looks like it'll work.

It was indeed a far better decision. Holland really doomed his party's chances

You guys are very optimistic, it's not just about Trump and brexit, it's the climate we are living in, people are motivated by fear, the past tragedies have changed their perspective. I personally know some who were very open minded, clearly left leaning changing gear following up what happened this past few years and what's still happening.

People will not vote for someone, they will vote for what they believe will protect them from what they fear. I'm afraid xenophobia and paranoia took over rational thinking.

Fear will always be more powerful than hope, sadly.
 

Fistwell

Member
You guys are very optimistic, it's not just about Trump and brexit, it's the climate we are living in, people are motivated by fear, the past tragedies have changed their perspective. I personally know some who were very open minded, clearly left leaning changing gear following up what happened this past few years and what's still happening.

People will not vote for someone, they will vote for what they believe will protect them from what they fear. I'm afraid xenophobia and paranoia took over rational thinking.
I'm a little fuzzy on the specific reasons why, although some of them do line up with your reasoning obviously, but I do have an unreasonable fear and gut-feel that le pen will get through. And, in general, not talking about people in here specifically, but more broadly, in the social circles around me, there is this notion the le pen has either no chance at all, or only a very, very small chance of getting elected. I'm afraid people take it for granted and don't go vote against her in the 2nd round. They seem to feel it's essentially a given that, in france, in the second round of the presidential election, of course everyone will vote against the fascist, it's a foregone conclusion.
 

Alx

Member
You guys are very optimistic, it's not just about Trump and brexit, it's the climate we are living in, people are motivated by fear, the past tragedies have changed their perspective. I personally know some who were very open minded, clearly left leaning changing gear following up what happened this past few years and what's still happening.

People will not vote for someone, they will vote for what they believe will protect them from what they fear. I'm afraid xenophobia and paranoia took over rational thinking.

I'm well aware of the current trends in European politics and populations state of mind. Only it doesn't make the election of Le Pen a sure thing, just like it doesn't guarantee her loss either. Like I said it justifies being worried, but not everything is set in stone. For Le Pen to win she still needs to perform over expectations, and while it's possible, the Wilders example (much closer to French situation than UK or US) shows the opposite is possible too.
 

G.O.O.

Member
People will not vote for someone, they will vote for what they believe will protect them from what they fear. I'm afraid xenophobia and paranoia took over rational thinking.
That's pretty much why the French became more attached to the EU after the brexit referendum, mind you.

The paradox is that we all say we want change but stability reassures us. That explains both why the FN is so high and why it struggles to get any higher in this election.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Fear didn't help the Austrian right wing presidential candidate although it was practically favourite to win.

Or maybe the fear of something stupid like Brexit that will impact everybody is resented by more people than the fear of foreigners.
 

Alx

Member
Both Macron and Le Pen have been going down for the last few days, while Fillon and especially Mélenchon have been raising up. Things may be very disputed, in two weeks.

AKxKaDa.png


(Ifop Rolling polls, Macron = pink, Le Pen = dark blue, Fillon = blue, Mélenchon = red)
 

Ac30

Member
Both Macron and Le Pen have been going down for the last few days, while Fillon and especially Mélenchon have been raising up. Things may be very disputed, in two weeks.

AKxKaDa.png


(Ifop Rolling polls, Macron = pink, Le Pen = dark blue, Fillon = blue, Mélenchon = red)

Yeesh, this isn't good. Imagine a Melenchon/LePen second round :/
 

Alx

Member
Yeesh, this isn't good. Imagine a Melenchon/LePen second round :/

It would be a worst case scenario (I would still vote Mélenchon I guess), but I don't think it's very likely. Mélenchon would be "stealing" votes from Hamon and Le Pen, so the higher he gets, the lower Le Pen gets too. It would be really bad luck that Macron and Fillon neutralize themselves just below both of the two extreme candidates.

Anyway, Macron is on France 2 tonight, I wonder if he'll manage to make lines move, but it's an important moment in the campaign for him.
 

Ac30

Member
It would be a worst case scenario (I would still vote Mélenchon I guess), but I don't think it's very likely. Mélenchon would be "stealing" votes from Hamon and Le Pen, so the higher he gets, the lower Le Pen gets too. It would be really bad luck that Macron and Fillon neutralize themselves just below both of the two extreme candidates.

Anyway, Macron is on France 2 tonight, I wonder if he'll manage to make lines move, but it's an important moment in the campaign for him.

Let's hope so.

Is there a link for this? I'd love to follow this
 
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