DiipuSurotu
Banned
If Macron can hold on until the May 3 debate he will be okay. That 1-vs-1 debate will destroy Le Pen's credibility.
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|OT| French Presidential Elect 2017 - La France est toujours insoumise; Le Pen loses
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Oh yeah, you're right. Still, they're so closely affiliated that it's going to reflect terribly on Macron. What a shitshow.
Blackpuppy
Member
I have to give it to Macron: he's actually staying and conversing with them on that parking lot rather than stopping for 15 minutes, taking a selfie and then leaving.
Herb Alpert
Banned
That's the worst part: his visit is FAR MORE meaningful than lepen's, Who made a coup d'éclat with no substance. He doesn't lie to them and seem to be sincere. Lepen just told them what they want to hear.
But the harm has been done and pictures tell a story that lepen will easily exploit.
Herb Alpert
Banned
I'm not so sure though.
Marine Le Pen is much better at debating than Macron.
She has more experience after all.
"Please send help"
If Le Pen "wins" today with regards to Whirlpool, that shows how stupid politics has become.
She took a couple selfies in a parking lot, while he was talking with unions and company representatives. And then he also talked to the workers for good measure.
FFS this is just as obvious a choice as Trump vs Clinton.
She took a couple selfies in a parking lot, while he was talking with unions and company representatives. And then he also talked to the workers for good measure.
FFS this is just as obvious a choice as Trump vs Clinton.
Herb Alpert
Banned
Of course parts of poltics have become stupid, or rather they already were but we didn't notice before.
He's doing very poorly though. This is a disastrous day for him.
He's not up to the task IMO.
I will not vote on May 7.
It has become infinitely worse in the age of social media. There is no doubt about that.
Aw man, please? Le Pen would fuck my whole life up so bad. I selfishly need the support as well.
The Hermit
Member
Hahhaaha
Blackpuppy
Member
But...her emails!
It's like some people have learned nothing from last year.
MonsieurPaul
Neo Member
Anxious to see how this will be covered on TV news tonight. Right now I find newspapers coverage (Le Monde, Nouvel Obs, Libé) pretty balanced.
IMHO I find Macron pretty good on this. This is not the disaster everyone is talking about.
IMHO I find Macron pretty good on this. This is not the disaster everyone is talking about.
Palette Swap
Member
Whirlpool is symptomatic of many things, and to be fair, it's poisonous, because if like MLP you go all in on protectionism, the end result is that you'd never have had these factories in the first place.
I mean, we can complain all we want about globalized capitalism, I do, but we wouldn't have these foreign investments without it.
We obviously have social norms to at least make sure these companies meet our labor standards, but the truth is, even with our current standards, people laid off are still pretty miserable, particularly when they won't find another job afterwards.
There's nothing in what MLP offers that will make people's lives better. It won't protect them and it certainly won't stimulate local economies. But generally, it seems everyone else is pretty powerless because the only thing they ultimately do is mitigate the damage.
The last thing anyone needs is people like Attali commenting.
I mean, we can complain all we want about globalized capitalism, I do, but we wouldn't have these foreign investments without it.
We obviously have social norms to at least make sure these companies meet our labor standards, but the truth is, even with our current standards, people laid off are still pretty miserable, particularly when they won't find another job afterwards.
There's nothing in what MLP offers that will make people's lives better. It won't protect them and it certainly won't stimulate local economies. But generally, it seems everyone else is pretty powerless because the only thing they ultimately do is mitigate the damage.
Ferrand, his movement's Secretary took to twitter to tell Attali to shut up, calling his position "despicably anecdotal".
The last thing anyone needs is people like Attali commenting.
She's such a vulture her breath must smell of carrion.
For reference, what's your benchmark on managing the closure of factories? Like, who excelled at that? Because I can't think of a case that ended badly once the cameras and empty promises were gone.
It's intellectually lazy and it normalises fascism and racism. It sickens me too.
AuthenticM
Member
Has Le Pen ever said anything positive about Rodrigo Duterte? If yes, please share a source. I didn't find anything but I'm sure she did at some point.
Lord Frieza
Member
So, I am really confused, what is going with Macron right now that he's getting heat for? I can't quite follow based on the last few pages.
I don't get this.
Neither is Le Pen, which is the only other option. Voting for Macron is at worst voting for the status-quo. That gives 5 years to work to creating a viable opposition party that suits your needs through local and national elections.
Le Pen would be an unmitigated disaster on a globl level, and for everyone who isn't white also on a personal level.
She's part of a racist political dynasty that got famous and made money by being holocaust deniers. God knows how anyone believes she is anti-establishment and for the common folk.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Are you white?
Blackpuppy
Member
Le Pen would fuck my whole life up so bad. I selfishly need the support as well.
I'm about in the same boat as you (American married to Frenchwoman, living in France). So make that two begging you all to vote.
Although my FN voting neighbor DID say, "Don't worry. They're not going to kick YOU out. You're a GOOD immigrant!" (Eyeroll)
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Le Pen went to meet the factory workers on the floor. Macron initially only went to meet their union representative, in an office away from the factory. It reinforces the notion he's aloof/out of touch and doesn't care about the working classes. It's mostly an imaging thing, but, well image matters.
MonsieurPaul
Neo Member
Not only he stayed, but he didn't make all the usual promises that everyone know he won't be able to keep. Instead, he told them that he won't nationalize them to save their jobs and he can't/won't forbid a company to close a factory site because that will be bad for foreign investment.
Clearly, he won't win a lot of voters from Whirlpool, but this is not the disastrous PR fail that some think it is.
On the other hand, Marine selfie with the soon-to-be-fired employee may cost her much more in the long term.
How so?
He spent more than 1h there working, she did a 10min photo op on a parking and then left, while promising Trump level stuff.
Macron also stopped to talk with workers on the way out and promised to come back for a follow up.
You forgot to mention that Macron is the one that authorized the delocalization of the factory to Poland, making 300+ french workers lose their jobs.
While Macron should definitely talk to the unions AND to the workers like he did, wouldn't it have been smarter to speak with the workers first, and then go speak with the unions?
Blackpuppy
Member
Just to add more: LePen basically shows up on the parking lot and gives the typical right wing spin of "I'm going to save your jobs!" Took some photos with people smiling and left.
Macron goes to speak with the union and THEN goes face to face with the workers who aren't really on his side and engages with them.
Whether that's good or bad depends on your point of view, but for me it shows that he's not just relying on his base supporters. He's reaching out and trying to explain how his program is the better of the two.
What does it have to do with anything ?
I am not going to vote for Le Pen.
I just refuse to vote for someone I disagree with.
I will vote "blanc".
You're not going to vote very often then.
If you don't find one of them better than the other then uhhh... I question your values.
Where ? Do you have some photos, videos that show people with Insoumis flags every time or so there are protests ? I don't even think there are Insoumis flags. I've only seen A3 signs during the biggest rallies, french flags and handmade signs (mostly). You're over estimating how much people that support FI would show their vote and support in other protests. Although yeah they're not the majority in these protests because it's another form of political action (that is not the most used during official campaigns), and I've not seen Mélenchon taking much credit out of them (especially because they are not big enough to be on the media).
Funny to see how you didn't answer about the link from Amnesty denying your hypothesis. I'm glad you changed your mind.
Bla-bla-bla. Your post is full of personnal moral judgement.
I recommend you to watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj16QPgyJ4A and then tell me when they are not clearly "identifying the ennemy" when they repeat a hundred times that not one vote should go to Le Pen and that she is the anti-thesis of everything they fight for.
You have the blood of billions in your hands.
Think about other folks in situations that this will impact first. You don't agree with him? That's fine, but please, before you do that DO consider what happens in a Le Pen victory. What that means for so many of us.
My life depends on the EU - she wants to kill it. It could have disastrous consequences for some of us.
You don't know any of us personally but please think about it.
It is literally social engineerings impact. Amazing isnt it?
DiipuSurotu
Banned
It has to do with Le Pen's program. All of it. You're trying to equate Macron and Le Pen as if both programs have the same level of harm for the country and its inhabitants. They don't.
Le Pen's program is more harmful than Macron's program not matter how bad Macron's program might be.
Because abstaining is the same is not caring who wins it? Sounds like a good position to be in, not evryone is that lucky.
Eh, I find the selfishness and intellectual laziness of bothsiders equally outrageous.
Maybe. But the facile arguments of people exclaiming that they wont vote hardly helps towards interesting discussions. The fact that they even put forward these arguments leaves little to discuss.
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