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Place Your Bets: Which perspective will RE2make have?

Ahasverus said:
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LOL! Touché!

I meant to say, they would have to change the game if they were to make it an over the shoulder shooter a la RE4. Entirely different maps, entirely different enemies, entirely different combat.

In the end, would it even be RE2?
 
If it's not fixed then there is no point in making this remake.

If you don't like fixed camera angles then you probably don't like RE2 to begin with so why do you care?
 
My personal bet is that it will have the classic perspective/leveldesign, with maybe some more interactive 3D environments and tank controls as an option but not the default (as with REmake HD).

Revelations 3 will cater to the RE4 crowd.
 
Over the shoulder is what I expect, over the shoulder is what I want. RE2 is a game I love and I'm hoping for a new take on the classic.
 
I still think a total asset remake of RE2 in 2017 presents a touch choice for Capcom market-wise:

--If it were a more modern-type game in 3rd person or even 1st person like RE7 it would have to be completely re-designed. At that point it's just a new game with the same story and the same title.

--On the other hand I feel like a more faithful remake that still had tank controls and a fixed camera would be a hard sell at $60 in 2017. And I feel like it would be $60 because you're talking a 100% asset remake of the game, not just a remaster at a higher resolution. That's gonna have a production budget probably similar to RE7. Capcom would want it to sell numbers similar to RE7. Can a game with tank controls do that in today's market?
 
RedSwirl said:
I still think a total asset remake of RE2 in 2017 presents a touch choice for Capcom market-wise:

--If it were a more modern-type game in 3rd person or even 1st person like RE7 it would have to be completely re-designed. At that point it's just a new game with the same story and the same title.

--On the other hand I feel like a more faithful remake that still had tank controls and a fixed camera would be a hard sell at $60 in 2017. And I feel like it would be $60 because you're talking a 100% asset remake of the game, not just a remaster at a higher resolution. That's gonna have a production budget probably similar to RE7. Capcom would want it to sell numbers similar to RE7. Can a game with tank controls do that in today's market?
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That's definitely a big point to consider. Definitely makes things not as clear cut as some are making it.
 
Brhoom said:
As much as it pains me to say this, but if Capcom want this to sell, they need to bring over the shoulder camera.
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Why? REmake 2 was greenlit because of REmake HD's success, which shows that there is still an audience for classic RE. So, why do they need an over the shoulder camera to sell? Why is there this assumption that no one will buy a game with fixed camera angles?
 
Scotia said:
No.

Look at PS1 gameplay of Resident Evil then look at Gameube/PS4 gameplay of REmake and try to call it a remaster. If done with a fixed camera angle (as it should be), then REmake 2 would be done like REmake so it wouldn't be a remaster, it'd be a remake.
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Not to call you out Scotia, but did you purposely leave out the rest of my comment? I did also say the following right after that:

mas8705 said:
Not to say that would be a bad thing either since it would be great to see RE2 get the same lovely treatment as RE1 did on the gamecube (and what has been constantly re-released almost as much as RE4).
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Mind you if I'm getting the definitions mixed up, then I apologize for the confusion. With so many definitions of "remasters" and "remakes" that we see nowadays, it can be a slight joggle.
 
RedSwirl said:
I still think a total asset remake of RE2 in 2017 presents a touch choice for Capcom market-wise:

--If it were a more modern-type game in 3rd person or even 1st person like RE7 it would have to be completely re-designed. At that point it's just a new game with the same story and the same title.

--On the other hand I feel like a more faithful remake that still had tank controls and a fixed camera would be a hard sell at $60 in 2017. And I feel like it would be $60 because you're talking a 100% asset remake of the game, not just a remaster at a higher resolution. That's gonna have a production budget probably similar to RE7. Capcom would want it to sell numbers similar to RE7. Can a game with tank controls do that in today's market?
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Nobody's even talking about tank controls here, though? You can make regular analog controls work fine with a fixed camera perspective, as games like DMC1, God of War, RE: Outbreak, Until Dawn, and others have shown. You just have to design the game around it. REmake and Zero HD are bad examples, with the alternate controls being tacked onto games that weren't designed for them. If you design a game with camera angles that follow the player to some degree, incorporate smart transitions between angles, and ensure that the enemy AI can keep up with such movement patterns, analog controls would be fine.

There's no need for Tank controls in REmake 2. Those were a byproduct of static, prerendered backgrounds and a camera that couldn't pan to follow the player, resulting in numerous transitions from screen to screen that could only be properly navigated with character (rather than camera) relative controls. I love ye olde tank controls, but I don't feel it would be blasphemous or anything to move away from them. I just want the perspective, atmosphere, and core design and structure to remain intact.
 
kc44135 said:
Nobody's even talking about tank controls here, though? You can make regular analog controls work fine with a fixed camera perspective, as games like DMC1, God of War, RE: Outbreak, Until Dawn, and others have shown. You just have to design the game around it. REmake and Zero HD are bad examples, with the alternate controls being tacked onto games that weren't designed for them. If you design a game with camera angles that follow the player to some degree, incorporate smart transitions between angles, and ensure that the enemy AI can keep up with such movement patterns, analog controls would be fine.

There's no need for Tank controls in REmake 2. Those were a byproduct of static, prerendered backgrounds and a camera that couldn't pan to follow the player, resulting in numerous transitions from screen to screen that could only be properly navigated with character (rather than camera) relative controls. I love ye olde tank controls, but I don't feel it would be blasphemous or anything to move away from them. I just want the perspective, atmosphere, and core design and structure to remain intact.
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If Capcom is redesigning RE2 to that extent then I think it might as well go with 3rd person or 1st person to get a more mainstream audience. The problem with a 100% asset remake of RE2 is that it would require a budget much bigger than the remasters of RE1 and RE0. It wouldn't be successful with the same sales numbers as those games. It would probably have to sell somewhere near what RE7 did.

In my post above I was talking about the situation where Capcom stays completely faithful to the level design and enemy balance of RE2. Why would it make a "brand new RE2" with fixed camera angles? That worked for Until Dawn because Until Dawn has no combat outside QTEs.
 
RedSwirl said:
If Capcom is redesigning RE2 to that extent then I think it might as well go with 3rd person or 1st person to get a more mainstream audience. The problem with a 100% asset remake of RE2 is that it would require a budget much bigger than the remasters of RE1 and RE0. It wouldn't be successful with the same sales numbers as those games. It would probably have to sell somewhere near what RE7 did.

In my post above I was talking about the situation where Capcom stays completely faithful to the level design and enemy balance of RE2. Why would it make a "brand new RE2" with fixed camera angles? That worked for Until Dawn because Until Dawn has no combat outside QTEs.
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Because that's what people want? Because that's exactly what REmake was (a new game that took inspiration from the original), and it is frequently lauded as the greatest video game remake ever? It wasn't at all faithful to the design of the original, merely it's core concepts. The fact that it was so different from the original (and even played with your expectations of the original game) is part of why it was so beloved, and I doubt anyone here wants a Crash style remake of RE2 that is entirely faithful to the original.

Moreover, I ask again, where is your proof that Classic RE wouldn't sell without an over the shoulder camera? I'm trying to wrap my head around this mentality that "Classic RE is outdated and won't sell", and understand where it comes from. Also, both REmake HD and RE Zero HD were only remasters. The fact that they achieved the sales they did is remarkable, and it should prove promising for a REmake of by far the most popular (horror focused) RE of them all, no?
 
Fixed camera angles AND third person over the shoulder. Let people choose.

If you're going to rebuild everything in a real time 3D engine (and you totally can with the power of systems these days) why not just let people choose?

I'll play it either way, but it's not a giant challenge, I don't think.
 
Honestly, i want REmake 2, hires video CG backgrounds with super high poly characters/enemies.

As much as I love RE4, they shouldn't stray too far from what made RE2 great. I replayed last year on my vita, and once you get into the swing of things that game still holds up IMO.
 
plagiarize said:
Fixed camera angles AND third person over the shoulder. Let people choose.

If you're going to rebuild everything in a real time 3D engine (and you totally can with the power of systems these days) why not just let people choose?

I'll play it either way, but it's not a giant challenge, I don't think.
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You would have to build entirely different mechanics for each perspective, though. It would literally require Capcom to design two different sets of mechanics and two different sets of level designs to accommodate them. Let's say you design combat that allows you to aim and hit enemy weakpoints, ala RE4. That wouldn't work with fixed camera angles at all. You could take the lock on combat and adapt it to an over the shoulder perspective, but most people would want to aim freely in that perspective and would not be happy with the combat as presented. What you're asking for would be great certainly, but it just isn't at all realistic or feasible, unfortunately.
 
bastardly said:
Honestly, i want REmake 2, hires video CG backgrounds with super high poly characters/enemies.
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This is what I want. People say that realtime 3D would be good enough with today's graphics, but I don't want good enough. I want to be blown away. Check out today's CG. With super high poly everything and godly texture quality this game would stand the test of time 20 years from now. REmake looks fucking good to this day.

Make the backgrounds CG and pump those resources that are not spent on rendering realtime 3D high detail environments on godly character models.
 
Ahasverus said:
They already did it on RE5's Lost in Nightmares.
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Have you actually played Lost in Nightmares with the fixed camera angles? It doesn't work, and combat is flat-out broken. There is no lock-on, and it's extremely difficult to aim at enemy weakpoints (or to aim at enemies at all). Lost in Nightmares is probably the best possible example for why this approach doesn't work. One style or the other won't work well at all unless you were to essentially design two completely different games.
 
On one hand, it should probably play like the older games. The people who want this sort of thing are staved for media, and to be honest while newer RE have convinced people who foolishly thought RE was horror in the first place that it " returned to horror" it hasn't returned to old RE gameplay. In fact its a rather new thing. And even if action RE comes back, its going to, it still wont be like old RE. So those people should get the thing they want

On the other hand, fuck those people. Resident evil 2 that plays like 4. That sounds like dopest shit ever fuck you.
 
kc44135 said:
Have you actually played Lost in Nightmares with the fixed camera angles? It doesn't work, and combat is flat-out broken. There is no lock-on, and it's extremely difficult to aim at enemy weakpoints (or to aim at enemies at all). Lost in Nightmares is probably the best possible example for why this approach doesn't work. One style or the other won't work well at all unless you were to essentially design two completely different games.
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Eh, could have been better, but that was like 10 years ago.
 
Ahasverus said:
Eh, could have been better, but that was like 10 years ago.
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Yeah, but why does that matter? :p It would still just be too much effort to make two different perspectives work, because again, if you want your fixed camera mode to please classic fans, and your over the shoulder perspective to please action fans, you'd have to design two separate games. I just don't see how you could realistically make one set of mechanics work for both perspectives in a way that would please everyone. Yes, it would be dope, but it's not realistic.
 
My dream scenario is classic fixed camera angles (preferably as faithful as possible to the original game)...could be the original placement of the static cameras, or depending on how they pull it off, incorporate panning camera angles that stay true to the spirit of the game... either include pre-rendered backgrounds or 3D backgrounds(my fucking god at that remade room in REmake REmastered that was fully 3D...it was the room in the basement that you place the 4 Death Masks in...made me wish they remade the entirety of the game in that 3D style! So faithful to the original vision, and yet so crisp...so HD...a;lsdjfkl;asd)...I don't mind either as long as they're high quality and stay true to the original game. Could have tank controls, and/or analog controls as long as the remake is well-designed for both styles. Preferably as many of the original voice cast to return for the REmake 2 (especially Allison Court as Claire!, that's the big one for me). Keep as much of the original game as possible, while incorporating new areas (and definitely puzzles! Could either be all-new, enhanced remixes of certain old puzzles, and even both! That being said, certain original puzzles can be kept the same, for either nostalgic purposes, game balance purposes, or both!) a la REmake 1. Keep the alternating scenario system if possible. This is a big stretch, but I'd LOVEE it if the original composers can return (ideally all of them) and update their classic musical tracks for the game. Please, please, no DLCs, no season passes or anything of that nature for this game. Just keep it a "complete" package from the get go, just like the original! Not really my main priority for this REmake, but I wouldn't mind having either a Mercenaries or Raid mode style post-game unlockable that lets you either use the static/panning camera angle POV or 3rd person POV (I'm tempted to even include the 1st person POV, but not sure that's realistic for the scope of this project), optional 2 player co-op and have all the crazy action stuff there. I think with that setup, the developers can add in crazy over-the-top situations with enemy layouts and stuff without ruining the pacing and flow of the main, single-player content. Sure, it wouldn't be no RE6 in terms of control options and tactics, but if it's done well, it might be closer to an RE4-style action pace that might satisfy certain fans of action RE. I'm aware that with that setup, the action part wouldn't be as fully fleshed out as a full-budget action RE (as I kinda mentioned above already in the last few sentences), but that's kind of the point, as in that case, the majority of the budget and resources go to polishing and refining the hell out of the single-player part of the game, which should take full priority of the budget and resources. Could be cool to add in characters normally not found in the main storylines of the game...imagine playing as Tofu in a Mercenaries or Raid mode style minigame?! I'm not holding my breath for this one, but I'd appreciate it if they can somehow make the CGI cutscenes kind of reminiscent of the original game's cutscenes (they'd have to play a tricky game of balancing between staying faithful to the originals while updating them cleverly for the modern day). To this day, a vast majority of those CGI cutscenes still hold up to me...are full of iconic memorable moments that to me really feel like they're from a real movie... the closest any other RE game came to that level of memorability to me is the 1st REmake...as great as the intro and alternate ending CGI cutscenes were...those are the only major CGI cutscenes I can recall at this time (not sure if there were more or if the rest were in-game cutscenes...I think that was the case).

That about wraps up my wishlist for RE2 REmake as of this time...I might update this post with additional stuff I forgot to add as of now
 
kc44135 said:
Because that's what people want? Because that's exactly what REmake was (a new game that took inspiration from the original), and it is frequently lauded as the greatest video game remake ever? It wasn't at all faithful to the design of the original, merely it's core concepts. The fact that it was so different from the original (and even played with your expectations of the original game) is part of why it was so beloved, and I doubt anyone here wants a Crash style remake of RE2 that is entirely faithful to the original.

Moreover, I ask again, where is your proof that Classic RE wouldn't sell without an over the shoulder camera? I'm trying to wrap my head around this mentality that "Classic RE is outdated and won't sell", and understand where it comes from. Also, both REmake HD and RE Zero HD were only remasters. The fact that they achieved the sales they did is remarkable, and it should prove promising for a REmake of by far the most popular (horror focused) RE of them all, no?
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REmake originally came out in 2002. Back then you could get away with selling a $50 game with tank controls and fixed camera angles. I'm not sure Capcom believes you can do that in 2017. The HD re-releases of it and RE0 were probably a lot less expensive to do than an RE2 remake will be. What I'm saying is, a top-to-bottom RE2 remake would probably have to sell a lot more than either of those HD re-releases to be a sufficient return of investment for Capcom. Maybe Capcom isn't sure the audience that bought REmake and RE0 will be big enough.

Personally though, I wouldn't want an RE2 that plays like RE4. If Capcom is going to modernize it, it's probably better for it to play like RE7.
 
neonille said:
If it's not fixed then there is no point in making this remake.

If you don't like fixed camera angles then you probably don't like RE2 to begin with so why do you care?
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You answered your own question. It's a remake not a remaster. The fact they might make a RE 2 game most people in 2017 will enjoy, with a third person camera, is what's exciting. Fixed camera didn't work that well in REmake, I'd much rather see a re-imagining of the game, not an archaic rehash
 
You know I can't find anything saying it was REmake and RE0 that got RE2make greenlit. Just that those had good sales. Might be looking at the wrong places, but I can't find any links.

Then there's the whole "do whatever we want capcom". They tend to like to take the road less traveled. "DMC5? Nah here's DmC", "RE7 is in first person", and other such oddities to me makes it unsafe to feel it'll certainly be a certain style.
 
I may be alone in this camp but I kind of try not to think about this topic because I don't know what I think would really be best. I live and breathe classic RE and love the tank controls and fixed perspectives. But RE2 differs in a great many ways from RE1 and REmake and I'm not sure what would be best for it today.

The combat options are limited in the fixed perspective but it does deliver more tension. The OTS view would make combat more direct and less monotonous but it'd limit exploration (more specifically that claustrophobic sense you only get with the rendered environments when you don't have to worry about how to position the camera directly behind the player when they get near walls, etc).

In all, both could work if done well. I'm not sure which would give the dev team the most freedom to make the best overall game right now, though, that doesn't retread the past so much.

That said, first person is not the way to go with this and I am certain they will not try that.
 
My bet would be on fixed perspective but I'm really not gonna be bummed on over the shoulder unless it's just a bad remake in general. I don't like to think of it as an absolute bet because sometimes, there's just no telling with Capcom. It's just that, for me, I'd like to see it in that style again and I like the thought that REmake turned into an interest gauge for Capcom.

Jawmuncher said:
You know I can't find anything saying it was REmake and RE0 that got RE2make greenlit. Just that those had good sales. Might be looking at the wrong places, but I can't find any links.
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Yeah I'm not sure Capcom's ever just said outright that REmaster was a test or anything. Somewhat convenient timing is what I'm seeing that contributes to that theory. Capcom release the Remaster, time goes by, breaks sales records, REmake 2 proposal finally accepted and announced and Capcom continues to be happy w/ sales. Kinda loose but it's there.

I also remember hearing interest in one fan remake might have helped Capcom along to seeing interest in it as well but I'm not sure how true any of that is. Pretty sure REmake 2 has been proposed and planned a few times but, first, RE4 happened and then, another time, Capcom deemed there wasn't enough interest and refused proposals. Fast forward to now and we have this.
 
I think people worried too much about perspective.
As long as it's well designed and well made, it will play amazingly well.

All three perspective of RE can be fun, REmake is fun, RE4 is fun, RE7 is fun.
Seriously, it's doesn't really matter.

(But seriously though Capcom where is my fucking RE7 Chris DLC?)
 
Enzo88 said:
I hope they follow the ReMake layout, but who knows with capcom.
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It's been so long since they originally remade the first game for the GameCube. I doubt they could do it that good again but who knows, the new environments used for the HD remaster worked out so maybe capcom still has a team that could pull this off. Hard to say. RE7and Rev2 are so different it's hard to tell what kind of output any modern RE team will have.
 
Fixed camera with more panning and zooming as with the original, but combat redesigned around free movement, but still having tank controls as an option.

Really, if they go for first or third person over the shoulder, they'll have completely fucked up and missed the point.
 
kc44135 said:
Why? REmake 2 was greenlit because of REmake HD's success, which shows that there is still an audience for classic RE. So, why do they need an over the shoulder camera to sell? Why is there this assumption that no one will buy a game with fixed camera angles?
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Everyone of my friends hated that they can not move the camera in REmake and that controls suck. "Why can't the camera move!?"
 
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