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PlayStation Meeting announced. September 7th 3PM ET (PS4 Neo Reveal)

Right before the Neo's unveil, how do you feel about the system?


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Oct 10, 2014
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Really wish some info about NEO would leak like the PS4 Slim is leaking..dont care for the Slim but I want that Neo if its a true upgrade
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
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NEO will be 4.2tflops with jaguar at 2+GHZ. RAM 8GDDR5 RAM at 218 GB/s.

People need to stop unreasonably hyping themselves up for things that won't happen. The NEO has its own place in Sony's portfolio, and its not one they are looking at as its own unit.

It has a specific function:deliver PS4 games at a higher quality than PS4 can deliver them, and provide 4K content.

Anything more than that would actually be a waste of an investment for that goal IMO.
 

Venom Fox

Banned
Feb 28, 2015
4,702
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NEO will be 4.2tflops with jaguar at 2+GHZ. RAM 8GDDR5 RAM at 218 GB/s.

People need to stop unreasonably hyping themselves up for things that won't happen. The NEO has its own place in Sony's portfolio, and its not one they are looking at as its own unit.

It has a specific function:deliver PS4 games at a higher quality than PS4 can deliver them, and provide 4K content.

Anything more than that would actually be a waste of an investment for that goal IMO.
It'll be 5TF GPU, 2+Ghz Jaguar with 12GB RAM.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
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It'll be 5TF GPU, 2+Ghz Jaguar with 12GB RAM.
Are you going to bet on that? Sounds strange when the final spec indicated in april only allowed an extra 512MB of gaming RAM for developers. What would the other 4 and a half gigabytes be doing? Sounds like a waste of money to me.

Along with the bandwidth upgrade, going to 5 tflops would generally be a waste, as even with polaris's new compression techniques, getting 218 GB/s to fill 4.2tflops itself will be a challenge.
 

serversurfer

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Aug 31, 2013
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PS3 tried to use CELL, and Sony got burned for that. Since I expect the gaming consoles for the foreseeable future to involve zero exotic components, it certainly makes sense to just make consoles pre-built PCs, in that backward compatibility would be a default feature.
The planned console cycles would likely be:
1. New console
2. Release console 1.5 and the slim version, mid way through the lifecycle.
3. Release Console 2, make sure all games for Console 2 is still reasonably playable on 1.5, and barely playable on 1.
4. Release Console 2.5 and the slim version of 2, slowly stop Console 1 and 1.5 production depending on how low the sales drop off.
etc.
Pretty much. If Cell had taken off as Kutaragi hoped, they could've begun this process a decade ago. Going forward, the current platform could easily last them decades.


if there is a ps5 and it is backwards compatible…
"… the whole idea of keeping the ecosystem intact and scaleable is right."

It won't be "backwards compatible." It will be the same platform. That's like saying Neo is "backwards compatible" with PS4, but in fact, they're the same platform, with a slightly different hardware configuration. Orbis OS isn't going anywhere.
 

onQ123

Member
May 1, 2010
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PS3 tried to use CELL, and Sony got burned for that. Since I expect the gaming consoles for the foreseeable future to involve zero exotic components, it certainly makes sense to just make consoles pre-built PCs, in that backward compatibility would be a default feature.
The planned console cycles would likely be:
1. New console
2. Release console 1.5 and the slim version, mid way through the lifecycle.
3. Release Console 2, make sure all games for Console 2 is still reasonably playable on 1.5, and barely playable on 1.
4. Release Console 2.5 and the slim version of 2, slowly stop Console 1 and 1.5 production depending on how low the sales drop off.
etc.

Actually I think this is where Sony could get an advantage over MS with the consoles going forward if MS is basically making a ready made Multimedia PC that's playing the same games as the PC Sony could use exotic co-processors to boost performance.

Like if Neo has a 4,2TF gpu but also has DSPs/co-processors for lighting & so on vs Scorpio 6TF GPU that's just going to more power it's way to Xbox One games in 4K I think Neo would end up with the better looking game in some cases.
 
Dec 6, 2008
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Kuwait
PS3 tried to use CELL, and Sony got burned for that. Since I expect the gaming consoles for the foreseeable future to involve zero exotic components, it certainly makes sense to just make consoles pre-built PCs, in that backward compatibility would be a default feature.
The planned console cycles would likely be:
1. New console
2. Release console 1.5 and the slim version, mid way through the lifecycle.
3. Release Console 2, make sure all games for Console 2 is still reasonably playable on 1.5, and barely playable on 1.
4. Release Console 2.5 and the slim version of 2, slowly stop Console 1 and 1.5 production depending on how low the sales drop off.
etc.
No.


This is how I think it could be happening if Sony is really going to follow the patch of mid gen upgrade:

1- Release PS4
2- Release Slim and upgraded version mid gen
3- Release PS5 after the end of PS4 cycle
4- PS5 is BC with PS4 and PS4k because THEY ARE the same console.

again....

5- Release PS5
6- Release slim and upgraded version mid gen
7- Release the next PS ( PS6? ) after the end of PS5 cycle
8- PS6 is BC with PS5 and maybe PS4 both versions because the mid gen upgrade is still the same console as the original


Beside they stated before they are sticking with console generations... they don't have to follow MS path, each have their own paths to walks in.

They are releasing Neo for 3 main factors:

1- They are trying to push the VR the best possible way
2- They are trying to push the 4K
3- PS4 was released under-powered already

If weren't for the VR and 4K and the under-powered we wouldn't be seeing Neo.
 

sense

Member
Aug 4, 2012
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No.


This is how I think it could be happening if Sony is really going to follow the patch of mid gen upgrade:

1- Release PS4
2- Release Slim and upgraded version mid gen
3- Release PS5 after the end of PS4 cycle
4- PS5 is BC with PS4 and PS4k because THEY ARE the same console.

again....

5- Release PS5
6- Release slim and upgraded version mid gen
7- Release the next PS ( PS6? ) after the end of PS5 cycle
8- PS6 is BC with PS5 and maybe PS4 both versions because the mid gen upgrade is still the same console as the original


Beside they stated before they are sticking with console generations... they don't have to follow MS path, each have their own paths to walks in.

They are releasing Neo for 3 main factors:

1- They are trying to push the VR the best possible way
2- They are trying to push the 4K
3- PS4 was released under-powered already

If weren't for the VR and 4K and the under-powered we wouldn't be seeing Neo.
This is exactly what I see happening as well. Trying to make ps5 games that are playable on neo and not on OG ps4 is just going to confuse people. Have a clean break, let devs take full advantage of ps5 power and not bother with watered down versions or compatibility issues, communicate to consumers that all games released on previous consoles will be playable on the new console and show games that will justify the ps5 purchase.
 

NOOI

Banned
Mar 30, 2016
144
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They are releasing Neo for 3 main factors:

1- They are trying to push the VR the best possible way
2- They are trying to push the 4K
3- PS4 was released under-powered already

If weren't for the VR and 4K and the under-powered we wouldn't be seeing Neo.
I really disagree with that. It is hard to believe Neo ownership would ever be more than just a small subset of the PS4 market. I have no doubt that enthusiasts in Neogaf would have an above average rate of Neo conversion, but Sony is unlikely to think their "premium" console would ever be the mainstream and baseline for game development.

Neo would be a hard sell, and Sony knows it. But as long as they have both the premium and budget options covered via the two new hardware releases, they have nothing to worry about. The Slim and the OG PS4 will remain the baseline for both gaming and VR, because the 35.9 million install base is just too strong to abandon.
 
Dec 6, 2008
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Kuwait
This is exactly what I see happening as well. Trying to make ps5 games that are playable on neo and not on OG ps4 is just going to confuse people. Have a clean break, let devs take full advantage of ps5 power and not bother with watered down versions or compatibility issues, communicate to consumers that all games released on previous consoles will be playable on the new console and show games that will justify the ps5 purchase.
People are forgetting that PS4 and Neo ARE THE SAME CONSOLE and will play the same game disc.

Plus Neo is just an upgrade of PS4..... PS5 will be a really new gen with big regular jump.

And as you mentioned devs needs a clean break to take full advantage of the new hardware... just look at all the cross gen games and then the exclusives to the new gen games.
 

Simply Sami

Member
Mar 9, 2009
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Sony really have to nail this conference.

I don't think they had a great year personally. No mans Sky and Uncharted were disappointing for me. Wait and see on the last guardian. Adam Boyes leaving was a blow. All these hacking threads we seem to be getting and no two step. Now they increasing Ps plus which is poor compared to games with gold.
 

sense

Member
Aug 4, 2012
4,176
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0
Sony really have to nail this conference.

I don't think they had a great year personally. No mans Sky and Uncharted were disappointing for me. Wait and see on the last guardian. Adam Boyes leaving was a blow. All these hacking threads we seem to be getting and no two step. Now they increasing Ps plus which is poor compared to games with gold.
The concern is real
 

Boke1879

Member
Apr 25, 2013
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Sony really have to nail this conference.

I don't think they had a great year personally. No mans Sky and Uncharted were disappointing for me. Wait and see on the last guardian. Adam Boyes leaving was a blow. All these hacking threads we seem to be getting and no two step. Now they increasing Ps plus which is poor compared to games with gold.
I'm sure Sony has had a fine year, leave the GAF bubble and all the things you listed really don't concern other people in a meaningful way.
 
Dec 6, 2008
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I really disagree with that. It is hard to believe Neo ownership would ever be more than just a small subset of the PS4 market. I have no doubt that enthusiasts in Neogaf would have an above average rate of Neo conversion, but Sony is unlikely to think their "premium" console would ever be the mainstream and baseline for game development.

Neo would be a hard sell, and Sony knows it. But as long as they have both the premium and budget options covered via the two new hardware releases, they have nothing to worry about. The Slim and the OG PS4 will remain the baseline for both gaming and VR, because the 35.9 million install base is just too strong to abandon.
You misunderstood me.

They are not abandoning the regular PS4... it's over 40M now and it will just keep raising with the Slim version.

Neo is there to be offered to those who are interested in a better VR experience and want more stable gaming performance.
 
Jul 7, 2014
13,608
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United Sates
NEO will be 4.2tflops with jaguar at 2+GHZ. RAM 8GDDR5 RAM at 218 GB/s.

People need to stop unreasonably hyping themselves up for things that won't happen. The NEO has its own place in Sony's portfolio, and its not one they are looking at as its own unit.

It has a specific function:deliver PS4 games at a higher quality than PS4 can deliver them, and provide 4K content.

Anything more than that would actually be a waste of an investment for that goal IMO.
You need to stop telling people what to think or hope for because all you are concerned about how your current PS4 will fare in comparison. For someone that has zero interest in buying one you talk about it as much as anyone. You have no idea what Sony goals are yet you continue to talk as if you are an authority on the matter.
 

NOOI

Banned
Mar 30, 2016
144
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You misunderstood me.

They are not abandoning the regular PS4... it's over 40M now and it will just keep raising with the Slim version.

Neo is there to be offered to those who are interested in a better VR experience and want more stable gaming performance.
That I agree with. I just want to be clear that Sony would expect the majority of the PSVR users to not be NEO owners. And that it is amazing how much the media is trying to push for the alternative narrative. For the last few months I kept getting hammered with claims that PSVR is only meant to work with NEO, and it is getting infuriating.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
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You need to stop telling people what to think or hope for because all you are concerned about how your current PS4 will fare in comparison. For someone that has zero interest in buying one you talk about it as much as anyone. You have no idea what Sony goals are yet you continue to talk as if you are an authority on the matter.
But, what i am saying makes logical sense, no?

Sony has no need to run for upping the specs of NEO for quite a few reasons.

People just keep forcing the narrative that Sony has to have even more substantial upgrades lying in wait than what we know about because they are scared of Scorpio for some reason and have to compete in a power scaling contest.

But to me, that would actually not do much to their current success, would actually hurt the consistency of their message, and would likely raise prices higher than they would need to be for Sony's vision of an iterative unit that is held back by current gen technology, but can take advantage of its horse power to make the games run at higher quality.
 

Bitch Pudding

Member
Oct 3, 2014
8,005
1
410
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PS3 tried to use CELL, and Sony got burned for that. Since I expect the gaming consoles for the foreseeable future to involve zero exotic components, it certainly makes sense to just make consoles pre-built PCs, in that backward compatibility would be a default feature.
The planned console cycles would likely be:
1. New console
2. Release console 1.5 and the slim version, mid way through the lifecycle.
3. Release Console 2, make sure all games for Console 2 is still reasonably playable on 1.5, and barely playable on 1.
4. Release Console 2.5 and the slim version of 2, slowly stop Console 1 and 1.5 production depending on how low the sales drop off.
etc.

Yeah, my thoughts as well, allthough I asume Sony and MS will draw a clear line which games are supported by which "generation / iteration":

 

wapplew

Member
Mar 1, 2012
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I don't understand why some people are trying to turn Neo into PS5. Microsoft clearly wanted the next gen to come early because they wanted a clean slate, but Sony has no reason to. Sony has won this gen via PS4 and they have no reason to end it prematurely.

Sony would release PS5 when they think they are ready to do so. Microsoft would not be able to force Sony into it no matter how powerful Scorpio ended up being, because Sony is the current market leader. Third parties would develop games for the largest install base like they always do.

If powerful hardware was really that all-enticing, then all the console games should have been available on PC by now.
The only thing I think why Neo need to be 5TF because they want to achieve graphic and performance parity with Scorpio in 1080p resolution.
 
Jul 7, 2014
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But, what i am saying makes logical sense, no?

Sony has no need to run for upping the specs of NEO for quite a few reasons.

People just keep forcing the narrative that Sony has to have even more substantial upgrades lying in wait than what we know about because they are scared of Scorpio for some reason and have to compete in a power scaling contest.

But to me, that would actually not do much to their current success, would actually hurt the consistency of their message, and would likely raise prices higher than they would need to be for Sony's vision of an iterative unit that is held back by current gen technology, but can take advantage of its horse power to make the games run at higher quality.
I didn't say it wasn't logical but definitely is not a lock like you persistently proclaim. I'm just not sure why you feel it is your duty to keep every one's expectations in check about these specs. I mean how many times are you going to make that same statement? Do you think you are doing a public service of saving us from disappointment? It just comes off as self-serving knowing your stance on the whole situation. I'll be fine regardless of what happens, but what if you are wrong? Are you going to have a meltdown? At the least you will eating a truckload of crow.
 

NOOI

Banned
Mar 30, 2016
144
0
0
The only thing I think why Neo need to be 5TF because they want to achieve graphic and performance parity with Scorpio in 1080p resolution.
There is no need for that.
First, because Scorpio is almost certainly either overpriced or sold at a loss. Either way Sony has no reason to match it.

Second, Sony is the market leader so all third party games would be made using PS4 as the baseline hardware. The Scorpio would be such a small proportion of the market that it is impossible to have it as a benchmark, unless you are Microsoft and making first-party games.
 

onQ123

Member
May 1, 2010
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The only thing I think why Neo need to be 5TF because they want to achieve graphic and performance parity with Scorpio in 1080p resolution.
I think it will be 4.2TF but I don't think the games are going to look much different from Scorpio games even at 1080P.

If you think about how these games don't show much of a difference on PC's with over 2X the power of PS4 & Xbox One in the eyes of the masses now so it will probably be even harder to sell them on the difference between Neo & Scorpio , PS4 vs Xbox One had that whole 1080P gate working in PS4 favor but for Neo & Scorpio I don't think it will be enough 4K owners in the 1st year to cause a stir.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,222
1
0
America
The only thing I think why Neo need to be 5TF because they want to achieve graphic and performance parity with Scorpio in 1080p resolution.
Games are going to be running for XB1 and PS4 as baseline anyway. If both Scorpio and NEO aimed for 1080p, they would both get ultra settings for games with good IQ.

What we're generally talking about is gaming at higher resolutions and which unit will come closer to hitting native 4K

I didn't say it wasn't logical but definitely is not a lock like you persistently proclaim. I'm just not sure why you feel it is your duty to keep every one's expectations in check about these specs. I mean how many times are you going to make that same statement? Do you think you are doing a public service of saving us from disappointment? It just comes off as self-serving knowing your stance on the whole situation. I'll be fine regardless of what happens, but what if you are wrong? Are you going to have a meltdown? At the least you will eating a truckload of crow.
Nah no melt down. If i'm wrong, i'm wrong. I understand if you don't think its acceptable for me to be saying that expecting too much will lead to disappointment.

I just am personally tired of seeing the hype cycle of excitement, and inevitable disappointment in regards to people's over-inflated expectations.

Expect little, and always be pleasantly surprised with more.
 

wapplew

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There is no need for that.
First, because Scorpio is almost certainly either overpriced or sold at a loss. Either way Sony has no reason to match it.

Second, Sony is the market leader so all third party games would be made using PS4 as the baseline hardware. The Scorpio would be such a small proportion of the market that it is impossible to have it as a benchmark, unless you are Microsoft and making first-party games.
All true, but if we talk about 1080p, publisher could port that ultra setting into enhance console, they need to be at least 4.8-5TF to hit 60fps.
If Neo stay 4.2TF, some games might have to lower the setting on Neo. But it's really hard to tell the different, that I agree.
 

NOOI

Banned
Mar 30, 2016
144
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All true, but if we talk about 1080p, publisher could port that ultra setting into enhance console, they need to be at least 4.8-5TF to hit 60fps.
If Neo stay 4.2TF, some games might have to lower the setting on Neo. But it's really hard to tell the different, that I agree.
I wish game developers care about hitting 60fps. Frankly if they haven't cared about hitting 60 fps before now, why should they start caring with Scorpio?
 

wapplew

Member
Mar 1, 2012
13,775
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I wish game developers care about hitting 60fps. Frankly if they haven't cared about hitting 60 fps before now, why should they start caring with Scorpio?
It's not that they care, it's more like a side effect of games running on high end hardware that limited by PS4/Xbox one.
They won't take extra resource to add more bell and whistle.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,222
1
0
America
All true, but if we talk about 1080p, publisher could port that ultra setting into enhance console, they need to be at least 4.8-5TF to hit 60fps.
If Neo stay 4.2TF, some games might have to lower the setting on Neo. But it's really hard to tell the different, that I agree.
They aren't hitting 60fps to begin with with the jaguar cores on games not specifically optimized in development to hit 60fps.
 
Sep 27, 2005
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NEO will be 4.2tflops with jaguar at 2+GHZ. RAM 8GDDR5 RAM at 218 GB/s.

People need to stop unreasonably hyping themselves up for things that won't happen.
A modest bump is possible, it's happened before, so it's not unreasonable. John Harker, who accurately predicted/hinted BF was going WW1 a year before anyone else, hinted there might be "some" truth to the upgrade rumors.

I do agree people need to temper their expectations, whatever the specs turns out to be, I think the vast majority will be satisfied in the long run.
 
Jul 7, 2014
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Games are going to be running for XB1 and PS4 as baseline anyway. If both Scorpio and NEO aimed for 1080p, they would both get ultra settings for games with good IQ.

What we're generally talking about is gaming at higher resolutions and which unit will come closer to hitting native 4K



Nah no melt down. If i'm wrong, i'm wrong. I understand if you don't think its acceptable for me to be saying that expecting too much will lead to disappointment.

I just am personally tired of seeing the hype cycle of excitement, and inevitable disappointment in regards to people's over-inflated expectations.

Expect little, and always be pleasantly surprised with more.
It's cool if you believe it and there is a very good chance you are right, but it just comes off as a killjoy to me when you come down on someone with this "reality" whenever they express some type of excitement for a surprise at the upcoming event. Speculation, excitement and disappointment is nothing new to Neogaf. Why should this be any different? We have two more weeks to be delusional. Let us enjoy it. ;)
 

Marlenus

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Jul 29, 2013
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It'll be 5TF GPU, 2+Ghz Jaguar with 12GB RAM.
5TF maybe, there is enough headroom in the GPU to reach that it just depends if yields and power consumption remain at an acceptable level for them to increase the clock.

The CPU should be able to clock pretty well and the rumoured 2.1Ghz seems on the low end but if they are going for efficiency it makes sense. Also if they basic experience between the OG console and Neo is to remain the same a large CPU disparity is not really conducive to it.

12GB would need a 384 bit bus which has minimum die size requirements and I cannot see that happening. 16 GB is more likely but probably cost prohibitive.

But, what i am saying makes logical sense, no?

Sony has no need to run for upping the specs of NEO for quite a few reasons.

People just keep forcing the narrative that Sony has to have even more substantial upgrades lying in wait than what we know about because they are scared of Scorpio for some reason and have to compete in a power scaling contest.

But to me, that would actually not do much to their current success, would actually hurt the consistency of their message, and would likely raise prices higher than they would need to be for Sony's vision of an iterative unit that is held back by current gen technology, but can take advantage of its horse power to make the games run at higher quality.
To be honest If Sony can increase clockspeeds without an appreciably negative impact on yields or power consumption it would be stupid not to as they are leaving available performance untapped.

When you start impacting yields or increasing power consumption though you end up in a different ball game with different considerations.
 

wapplew

Member
Mar 1, 2012
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610
They aren't hitting 60fps to begin with with the jaguar cores on games not specifically optimized in development to hit 60fps.
I think Sony know what they are doing, they don't simply choose random spec.
I believe they put enough spec to achieve certain threshold that is most cost efficient without diminished return.

But I'll be disappointed if running current PS4 games in 60fps is not that certain threshold.
 

NOOI

Banned
Mar 30, 2016
144
0
0
I think Sony know what they are doing, they don't simply choose random spec.
I believe they put enough spec to achieve certain threshold that is most cost efficient without diminished return.

But I'll be disappointed if running current PS4 games in 60fps is not that certain threshold.
But that is a meaningless benchmark. Sony could make any number of games hit 60fps already, and the same with Microsoft. The lack of 60fps isn't due to hardware limitations, but a lack of perceived marketable value.

It's like with PSVR, where the bare minimum re
 

NOOI

Banned
Mar 30, 2016
144
0
0
I think Sony know what they are doing, they don't simply choose random spec.
I believe they put enough spec to achieve certain threshold that is most cost efficient without diminished return.

But I'll be disappointed if running current PS4 games in 60fps is not that certain threshold.
But that is a meaningless benchmark. Sony could make any number of games hit 60fps already, and the same with Microsoft. The lack of 60fps isn't due to hardware limitations, but a lack of perceived marketable value.

It's like with PSVR, where the bare minimum requirement is 60fps upscaled to 120fps. So all that was needed is to make it a software target.
There will be 60fps console games when console gamers start demanding them. Until then it is barely worth the developer's time.
 
Sep 27, 2005
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12GB would need a 384 bit bus which has minimum die size requirements and I cannot see that happening. 16 GB is more likely but probably cost prohibitive.
That's a good point, do we have a vague guess on the bulk cost of 16GB? Even just speculation could help to rule out the likelihood of it happening.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,222
1
0
America
That's a good point, do we have a vague guess on the bulk cost of 16GB? Even just speculation could help to rule out the likelihood of it happening.
I could say that's far more likely for PS5 than NEO, considering the bandwidth they have to use is not even close to being able to use half that much ram in a single frame.
 
Sep 27, 2005
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I could say that's far more likely for PS5 than NEO, considering the bandwidth they have to use is not even close to being able to use half that much ram in a single frame.
I don't think it's likely at all for Neo, but we might as well kill all of the crazier expectations once and for all.

10GB isn't possible.
12GB is not an option without modification.
16GB is likely too expensive and is likely a waste.

The BOM for the APU/GDDR5 was supposedly $188 at one point, no clue what the ram is by itself currently.
 
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