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Post in here if you think Microsoft is truly hosed next round (no ray tracing crap, please)

Vol5

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Mar 2, 2010
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I hope they do better, but I'm always cautious about MS.

- GamePass seems like amazing value, but in my opinion it devalues games - You don't own shit, you may or may not like the library they are pushing & there's an expiry date on the content. I know I'm in the 1% here saying this, but it's honestly how I feel. I don't want to see them go down the route of using GamePass exclusively. I think that's a horrible idea and the writing is already on the wall with big releases being day one GamePass. Talk about the DRM fiasco back in 2013....This is the exact same thing but in different clothes.
- They will drop a product fast if sales aren't smashing it. Look at the 360 or now with the Xbox One....Revealing XsEX now is pretty much typical MS. You won't hear shit from them about XB1 come E3, leaving 40 odd million users of that piece of hardware in the dust.

MS have other problems aside to my own personal opinion about the XBOX. The PlayStation brand is a fucking monster frankly and I don't see them overcoming that hurdle....All Sony's First Party content plus marketing exclusivity with FIFA, CoD and the like?.....MS have a mountain to climb. But then who knows, they may strike gold with a couple of games that's exclusive to their system and they get a decent foothold.
 

JORMBO

Darkness no more
Mar 5, 2009
7,913
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Next round starts in around a year and we hardly have any details.

It's all over already. 💩
 

Coolwhhip

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Aug 26, 2019
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Because the comment made me laugh, and I want to foster a quality community here at NeoGAF, and if that means paying it forward on my forum of choice, then so be it.

And I want to convert you to a PS5 Warrior.
Haha I see, well thanks!🙃
 

captainraincoat

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Nov 15, 2010
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If you were basing it on console sales or physical hardware moved counts Nintendo is probably still gonna clean up next gen

A revised switch that's not a piece of shit like the lite version will outsell probably the ps5 and series x combined

That's why you see MS moving more towards brand/platform which they could leverage their own Xbox brand with gamepass/streaming while having their own dedicated hardware which works flawlessly between any platform or location

As a gamer it's really only Sony that has been holding everyone back.....as great as this generation has been for them they are still locked behind their own walls with their anti consumer policies.
 
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Clear

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I would never resort to hyperbole and say they likely to get "hosed", but what I would say is that I'm somewhat concerned by MS lack of focus. Specifically their messaging thus far seems to indicate an approach where they are aiming to compete on several fronts simultaneously. They aim to compete against Sony and Nintendo in the console space, against EGS and Valve in the PC market, against Google and all comers in the streaming market, including mobile. etc.

Ambitious is putting it mildly. And especially after Playstation has done so well this gen by taking a simple, direct approach I find it a bit perplexing that aren't following suit.
 

captainraincoat

Gold Member
Nov 15, 2010
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I would never resort to hyperbole and say they likely to get "hosed", but what I would say is that I'm somewhat concerned by MS lack of focus. Specifically their messaging thus far seems to indicate an approach where they are aiming to compete on several fronts simultaneously. They aim to compete against Sony and Nintendo in the console space, against EGS and Valve in the PC market, against Google and all comers in the streaming market, including mobile. etc.

Ambitious is putting it mildly. And especially after Playstation has done so well this gen by taking a simple, direct approach I find it a bit perplexing that aren't following suit.
Gaming as a whole is moving away from physical forms ...you can already see that with the gamestop/eb closures around the world.

The direct approach has worked...and will probably continue to work but people want flexibility and options more now

I hate to keep harping on about Nintendo but they really nailed this with the switch....a console that can be both portable and a dedicated unit....imagine something like that that was beefier or if streaming the content was a better solution to keep the price down.

I love being able to sync my Xbox/ps4 control up to my iPhone and join in with my kids on fortnite....this sort of flexibility is the future
 
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Nov 24, 2013
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I still want ms to be around for competition's sake. They need to hire better people to manage the gaming division though.
 
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or if streaming the content was a better solution to keep the price down.
Streaming is NOT going to be cheaper. Not for games. Remote processing of code had always been expensive because you are renting a computer. You should give up the fantasy that it would be cheap.

Just as renting a car had never gotten cheaper in the last decade. The car you could rent had gotten better, but the actual rent cost had not gone down. Game streaming is renting hardware, and that will never be the cheap option.
 

captainraincoat

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Nov 15, 2010
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Streaming is NOT going to be cheaper. Not for games. Remote processing of code had always been expensive because you are renting a computer. You should give up the fantasy that it would be cheap.

Just as renting a car had never gotten cheaper in the last decade. The car you could rent had gotten better, but the actual rent cost had not gone down. Game streaming is renting hardware, and that will never be the cheap option.
But in some cases you are not streaming from a data centre.....I can play death stranding on my iPad in my outdoor area with little to no lag.....it won't just be about physical infrastructure it will be about flexible gaining
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Jul 17, 2004
4,338
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Next round starts in around a year and we hardly have any details.

It's all over already. 💩
The post was trolly but it is over for sales before it started because of that inpenitriple wall Sony has around main land EU and the east. The two questions are how much does Sony win by and does MS make enough money to continue in the market to stop a Sony monopoly. Nintendo has pulled out and gone hand held only. I hope MS can close the gap bring competition back to Sony it is best for the market.
 

Aidah

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Jan 6, 2019
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We'll have a better idea in a few months. For now though don't know, given what they have and don't have going into next gen compared to going into last gen, I'm leaning more towards them being as successful or slightly more successful than they are now in terms of market share. The overall picture will probably stay the same as it is now at least for a few years, but again the next few months will tell us a lot and their chances might end up looking way worse, or better.
 

Clear

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Feb 2, 2009
9,619
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Gaming as a whole is moving away from physical forms ...you can already see that with the gamestop/eb closures around the world.

The direct approach has worked...and will probably continue to work but people want flexibility and options more now

I hate to keep harping on about Nintendo but they really nailed this with the switch....a console that can be both portable and a dedicated unit....imagine something like that that was beefier or if streaming the content was a better solution to keep the price down.

I love being able to sync my Xbox/ps4 control up to my iPhone and join in with my kids on fortnite....this sort of flexibility is the future
The functionality isn't the issue. Its the messaging being all over the place.

Examples:

You can game anywhere with Xbox thanks to the power of the cloud, oh, and btw here's the most extravagantly powerful (and assuredly most expensive) console we've ever built.

Hey, here's the new Halo. Hey, here's the latest version of MS Flight Simulator.

Here's Gamepass for Xbox, and over here is Gamepass for PC.

Its scattershot. They are trying to appeal to everyone at the same time and its getting confused and unwieldy.

And I'm sorry, but if any other platform holder had released/announced the number of variant SKU's that MS has over the last few years, the ghost of late 90's SEGA would have cropped up before now in the conversation. Whats more worrying is that its only going to get worse if we enter a period where not only are the 3 surviving Xbox One SKU's are sitting on shelves, but potentially two next gen Xboxes, plus the same content available on PC and other devics via the cloud!

What. The. Fuck.
 

MDSLKTR

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Dec 5, 2008
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Xbox will do better thanks to the current awareness of gamepass, it just works. Even if they sell the same amount as the One series (and I doubt it will sell less, somewhere between One and 360), GP attach rate is the endgame. Highly replayble series like Halo, Minecraft, Forza and even Sea of thieves have more than 10 million players each now.
PS5 is a homerun, it's at PS2 levels of hype now.
PC just takes everything, it‘s like the gold rush for publishers on the platform.
 
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Jan 29, 2019
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Finally a list of good Sony things, I'll keep note of it to respond to xboxers around here!
Do you think there is a forum somewhere where people fight over which toaster brand is the best?
Obviously there is, what else do toasters lovers have to to with their time while their favorite toaster toasts their bread?

I know I am very specific about the bread I like to eat, maybe I can find some people who can have a civilized discussion on the topic with me? obviously we must agree otherwise say goodbye to civility!
Of all the Xbox Store/Windows Store games, tell me how many people actually bought in the Windows Store. Console gamers and pc gamers are a different demographic. It does not matter to Microsoft where you buy there games .
I will not respond to your other points as this is all opinion. But stating that MS doesn't care where you buy their games is not something that makes very much sense, they 100% prefer it when you get the games on the Windows store, they get 100% of the revenue, their store gets more visibility (I.E. if you like it you may stick around and buy other software then they will get a cut from that as well).... But so far they don't have the critical mass on the Windows Store - because it's terrible, and they know it - so they act in a pragmatic manner and put their games where the clients are, so they stay relevant.
 

Ruben43cb

Member
Dec 25, 2019
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I have all 3 consoles and the ps4 has great exclusives but the one I use 90% of the time is my one x. It is a better online environment, dolby atmos is flawless, gamepass is just insane and getting better and better. Just dmc5, outer worlds, outerwilds, witcher 3 and metro exodus is about 200$ I would of spent on games... that's half my console price.

Many wont agree and that's fine. But if MS steps it up with some more exclusives and keeps stepping up gamepass I see no reason they cant do better than this last gen.

I will be getting ps5 and xsx day one. Both will be great systems. Also, I have no idea why fanboys want one side to flop so bad. You really want one of the 3 to have a total monopoly?
 
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Bryank75

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Jan 12, 2018
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Unfortunately Xbox is not a global brand, it is mostly a US focused brand with some other small pocket territories.
With PS5 launching at the same time and at a competitive power / price / feature set, Xbox doesn't stand a chance in overall sales.

They could however do very well in the US, UK, Ireland and some of Latin-America.

It must be considered though that PlayStation has a huge active userbase with a lot of digital content that will be backwards compatible on PS5. Not to mention friends, trophies and games that cannot be played elsewhere.... there is no PC option.

I fully expect playstation to acquire and bolster their exclusives in the coming generation.

If you look back at PS4 for the first 2 years, the exclusives were not that incredible. The only game that really interested me enough to buy was Second Son but no game XBox had was enough to move me towards it, even though Titanfall, Forza and SSOD all looked great.

PlayStation is just a stronger brand and has huge loyalty.

I do hope they buy some more studios and exclusives though, they need to keep adding to what they have.
 

12Dannu123

Member
Sep 23, 2016
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Microsoft might very well take it on the chin even harder in the next generation than they did in this one. Why?

Off the top of my head:
  • Two Xbox systems, with one that sucks, creating consumer confusion and developer disgust
  • Sony's 1st party dominance.
  • Sony buying experienced AAA developers like Insomniac, instead of "plucky" little squads like Obsidian and Ninja Theory.
  • Sony's BC looks to be the real deal...and then some if you read the tea leaves.
  • A very good chance that 343 mucks up Halo: Infinite.
  • Xbox One has irreparably damaged the brand.
  • Nintendo is back and better than ever, and can differentiate themselves from Sony in ways that Microsoft can only dream of.
  • Europe and Japan aren't interested in Xbox.
  • 11 vs 9 teraflop difference will not be as pronounced as 6 vs 4 was this time--and it's not like the PS4 Pro was a bad machine or anything.
  • The PC will get all the big Xbox games, and a PC is likely a better investment for power-crazed gamers.

I love my Xbox One X, and the Series X looks quite good, but the more I look at the dynamics this time around, the worse I think it gets for Microsoft.

Huge thanks to Don Mattrick and his horrendous regime for relegating a promising brand to the ash heap of history. Pricks.
Reported. This thread is merely causing console wars.
 

Soapbox Killer

Grand Nagus
Oct 30, 2015
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I will buy both Sony and Microsoft systems as I have done for the past 20 years. And while the Ps4 vs Xbox One was indeed a blowout always remember, "things never happen the same way twice"
 

12Dannu123

Member
Sep 23, 2016
523
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335
I would never resort to hyperbole and say they likely to get "hosed", but what I would say is that I'm somewhat concerned by MS lack of focus. Specifically their messaging thus far seems to indicate an approach where they are aiming to compete on several fronts simultaneously. They aim to compete against Sony and Nintendo in the console space, against EGS and Valve in the PC market, against Google and all comers in the streaming market, including mobile. etc.

Ambitious is putting it mildly. And especially after Playstation has done so well this gen by taking a simple, direct approach I find it a bit perplexing that aren't following suit.
The gaming industry and any tech/entertainment related industry is rapidly moving away from exclusives to a device/area and into ecosystems where people want to bring their library anywhere they go, so it doesn't make sense to lock your platform to a device that sit under a TV.

I feel that a lot of people on Gaf and in Gaming forums in general increasingly becoming very out of touch of the average consumer.

This isn't 2000s anymore.
 
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quest

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Jul 17, 2004
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I will buy both Sony and Microsoft systems as I have done for the past 20 years. And while the Ps4 vs Xbox One was indeed a blowout always remember, "things never happen the same way twice"
Sony has won 3 blow outs in 4 tries. I'm a gamepass subscriber until 2022 and bought launch systems from everyone from 3do to Sony. We know this outcome we just need to hope MS brings it and closes the gap and makes money to stay in the game. Sony could screw up as much as possible and win because as I said no one will penetrate Sonys firewall of main land EU and the east. It is a fallback they have of loyal fans they can count on no matter what. We saw it during the first 3 years of the PS3 generation. Sony did everything imaginable to screw it up but the Sony firewall held and carried them until they righted the ship with price drops, the ice team improving the development kits and games.
 
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quest

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I have all 3 consoles and the ps4 has great exclusives but the one I use 90% of the time is my one x. It is a better online environment, dolby atmos is flawless, gamepass is just insane and getting better and better. Just dmc5, outer worlds, outerwilds, witcher 3 and metro exodus is about 200$ I would of spent on games... that's half my console price.

Many wont agree and that's fine. But if MS steps it up with some more exclusives and keeps stepping up gamepass I see no reason they cant do better than this last gen.

I will be getting ps5 and xsx day one. Both will be great systems. Also, I have no idea why fanboys want one side to flop so bad. You really want one of the 3 to have a total monopoly?
Most here where not born during the crash of the mid 80s. They were not born yet when Nintendo ruled the industry with an iron fist controlling prices and content. They don't understand what happens when 1 company runs the industry as happened in the past. How things got better when Sega then later Sony challenged Nintendo.
 

Bathtub Fart

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Sep 2, 2019
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At this point it's apples to oranges. It doesn't even matter. They are healthy now and the new gen looks very promising. Who cares who wins with sales. Money isn't everything. They are both very successful.
 
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captainraincoat

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Nov 15, 2010
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Sony has won 3 blow outs in 4 tries. I'm a gamepass subscriber until 2022 and bought launch systems from everyone from 3do to Sony. We know this outcome we just need to hope MS brings it and closes the gap and makes money to stay in the game. Sony could screw up as much as possible and win because as I said no one will penetrate Sonys firewall of the east and the east. It is a fallback they have of loyal fans they can count on no matter what. We saw it during the first 3 years of the PS3 generation. Sony did everything imaginable to screw it up but the Sony firewall held and carried them until they righted the ship with price drops, the ice team improving the development kits and games.
To be fair...ms did not do themselves any favours with console reliability and it took almost the entire generation for sony to catch back up

This coming off the back of one of the greatest consoles of all time...the ps2...on paper it should of been a shoe in but it wasn't

You give your customers a Game console at the right price with the right games it doesn't matter what loyalty they had last generation.
 
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Soapbox Killer

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Sony has won 3 blow outs in 4 tries. I'm a gamepass subscriber until 2022 and bought launch systems from everyone from 3do to Sony. We know this outcome we just need to hope MS brings it and closes the gap and makes money to stay in the game. Sony could screw up as much as possible and win because as I said no one will penetrate Sonys firewall of the east and the east. It is a fallback they have of loyal fans they can count on no matter what. We saw it during the first 3 years of the PS3 generation. Sony did everything imaginable to screw it up but the Sony firewall held and carried them until they righted the ship with price drops, the ice team improving the development kits and games.


Define the east? If you mean Japan then yes you're right that Microsoft has no shot in the east under its current name however, hasn't the success of the Switch shown that Sony isn't impenetrable. As for the rest of the world, with no console war salvos or fanboyisms implied, I think the game has changed. I would not expect any blowout next gen if Microsoft is at least competent with the market and they appear to have righted the ship since the release of the Xbox One X.
 
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GermanZepp

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Microsoft is better placed than 2013, they gonna bring back users nextgen. But then again hard to know without the consoles.
 

quest

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To be fair...ms did not do themselves any favours with console reliability and it took almost the entire generation for sony to catch back up

This coming off the back of one of the greatest consoles of all time...the ps2...on paper it should of been a shoe in but it wasn't

You give your customers a Game console at the right price with the right games it doesn't matter what loyalty they had last generation.
The loyal fans in the Sony firewall did not care about PS1 reliability with the laser alignment issues, PS2 disc read errors or yellow light of death. It is about absolute brand loyalty in the Sony firewall. All the console makers at one point had a reliable issue.

Define the east? If you mean Japan then yes you're right that Microsoft has no shot in the east under its current name however, hasn't the success of the Switch shown that Sony isn't impenetrable. As for the rest of the world, with no console war salvos or fanboyisms implied, I think the game has changed. I would not expect any blowout next gen if Microsoft is at least competent with the market and they appear to have righted the ship since the release of the Xbox One X.
The switch is a hand held that is a different market than the PS4 and xbox one. The east is Asia and Australia.
 

Bryank75

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The gaming industry and any tech/entertainment related industry is rapidly moving away from exclusives to a device/area and into ecosystems where people want to bring their library anywhere they go, so it doesn't make sense to lock your platform to a device that sit under a TV.

I feel that a lot of people on Gaf and in Gaming forums in general increasingly becoming very out of touch of the average consumer.

This isn't 2000s anymore.
You wish, PlayStation gamers will buy their consoles as long as they continue to provide the high quality content they have for the past 25 years. No one cares about playing on a stupid tablet or on the toilet.
 

12Dannu123

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Sep 23, 2016
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You wish, PlayStation gamers will buy their consoles as long as they continue to provide the high quality content they have for the past 25 years. No one cares about playing on a stupid tablet or on the toilet.
You're talking about only PS gamers, not average consumers. PS gamers can play the isolated ecosystem game. But they'll increasingly reduce the growth of the platform. It's smart for MS to go where the general consumer is moving towards and that's subscriptions that are able to play anywhere. It makes their ecosystem a lot more accessible and attract, especially with traditional purchases in every industry in decline.
 
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G-Bus

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Aug 20, 2007
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Price will decide out the gate.

Two x box models a couple hundred bucks apart with a ps5 in the middle.

Coming off the PS4 it's going to be easy for them unless they make some monumental, PS3 levels of fuckery.

I also don't think ms is going away anytime soon. Probably helps the lines between PC/Xbox will become more blurred.
 

Soapbox Killer

Grand Nagus
Oct 30, 2015
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The switch is a hand held that is a different market than the PS4 and xbox one. The east is Asia and Australia.

Call the Switch whatever you want but to dismiss it as a different market is a less than fair assessment. There's is not a sales chart that we use as a metric that makes a distinction between Switch, Xbox and PlayStation.
 

MrRenegade

Member
Jul 1, 2016
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Microsoft might very well take it on the chin even harder in the next generation than they did in this one. Why?

Off the top of my head:
  • Two Xbox systems, with one that sucks, creating consumer confusion and developer disgust
  • Sony's 1st party dominance.
  • Sony buying experienced AAA developers like Insomniac, instead of "plucky" little squads like Obsidian and Ninja Theory.
  • Sony's BC looks to be the real deal...and then some if you read the tea leaves.
  • A very good chance that 343 mucks up Halo: Infinite.
  • Xbox One has irreparably damaged the brand.
  • Nintendo is back and better than ever, and can differentiate themselves from Sony in ways that Microsoft can only dream of.
  • Europe and Japan aren't interested in Xbox.
  • 11 vs 9 teraflop difference will not be as pronounced as 6 vs 4 was this time--and it's not like the PS4 Pro was a bad machine or anything.
  • The PC will get all the big Xbox games, and a PC is likely a better investment for power-crazed gamers.

I love my Xbox One X, and the Series X looks quite good, but the more I look at the dynamics this time around, the worse I think it gets for Microsoft.

Huge thanks to Don Mattrick and his horrendous regime for relegating a promising brand to the ash heap of history. Pricks.
It is all about the games. Good exclusives, then it will fly. Otherwise it will not. Nobody cares about terramonkeyflops. Although MS has 140 billion in cash, so... they can fail.
 

captainraincoat

Gold Member
Nov 15, 2010
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Define the east? If you mean Japan then yes you're right that Microsoft has no shot in the east under its current name however, hasn't the success of the Switch shown that Sony isn't impenetrable. As for the rest of the world, with no console war salvos or fanboyisms implied, I think the game has changed. I would not expect any blowout next gen if Microsoft is at least competent with the market and they appear to have righted the ship since the release of the Xbox One X.
If they release an adaptive controller for the japan market like this they will go gangbusters .

 

ScarletSpider

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Oct 12, 2019
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I think Xbox has everything to gain next gen and PlayStation has everything to lose. I’ll find reasons to buy both, because I’m foolish with money. 🤷‍♂️
 

Gamernyc78

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Jun 11, 2018
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Thy might do better next gen but it doesn't matter if thy are perfect, as long as Sony keeps doing what they are doing Microsoft won't touch them in sales, revenue or profit in gaming. Sony brand is just too entrenched world wide and has way more appeal. I repeat this alot but it is facts... Ps3 even costing hundreds more, with inferior multiplats and online going down for monthssss still sold more than xbox360 world wide upon its release almost every single month through its entirety which is why it caught up in sales after releasing a year and a half later. Thts crazy when you put it in perspective.
 
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Kagey K

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Dec 18, 2013
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The functionality isn't the issue. Its the messaging being all over the place.

Examples:

You can game anywhere with Xbox thanks to the power of the cloud, oh, and btw here's the most extravagantly powerful (and assuredly most expensive) console we've ever built.

Hey, here's the new Halo. Hey, here's the latest version of MS Flight Simulator.

Here's Gamepass for Xbox, and over here is Gamepass for PC.

Its scattershot. They are trying to appeal to everyone at the same time and its getting confused and unwieldy.

And I'm sorry, but if any other platform holder had released/announced the number of variant SKU's that MS has over the last few years, the ghost of late 90's SEGA would have cropped up before now in the conversation. Whats more worrying is that its only going to get worse if we enter a period where not only are the 3 surviving Xbox One SKU's are sitting on shelves, but potentially two next gen Xboxes, plus the same content available on PC and other devics via the cloud!

What. The. Fuck.
It’s really not that hard, and I feel like you are purposely making it more obtuse than it has to be.

If you own a game and you want to play it, they are trying to give you as many avenues as they can to play it. If you subscribe to Gamepass and you want to play a game on it, again they are trying to make sure you can play it wherever you are, whenever you like.

The rest of this is just FUD to distract from that.
 
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Oct 7, 2019
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Console-wise they showed they were serious and a force to be reckoned with last generation. A serious and worthy contender to Sony and the Playstation. That all changed with the Xbox One and if anything, I think they are making themselves less relevant constantly.

Yeah, their upcoming console may very well show to be more powerful than the PS5 but who cares except for a handful of people on Neogaf?

Sure, anything can happen - we've seen that many times before - but my belief is that their approach to consoles, exclusives, gaming and PCs makes the Xbox as a console much less relevant to the console gamers than Sony (and Nintendo, on the handheld side but that's a completely different market).

I find it extremely hard to believe that the next Xbox will be the go-to console for a majority of the players. Everyone I know that had an Xbox 360 bought a PS4 and couldn't care less about the Xbox brand anymore.

But who knows, it would be cool to see some healthy competition and I'd love to be surprised!