Jawbreaker
Member
A handheld will perform much better than a home console in Japan? That's a bold prediction, man.
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PS4 surpassed Wii U in Japan
- Thread starter Ryng_tolu
- Start date
A handheld will perform much better than a home console in Japan? That's a bold prediction, man.
killatopak
Member
If there is a resurgence of AAA JRPGs like DQ, the upcoming FFXV, KH 3 and other unused ips then there might be a resurgence in japanese console gaming.
The content that japanese people want is simply on the handheld side like MH and Yokai which is why the sales are skewed towards them.
The content that japanese people want is simply on the handheld side like MH and Yokai which is why the sales are skewed towards them.
Didn't exactly work out for Vita.
AquaWateria
Member
Well the Vita didn't provide any good incentives for players especially with those expensive memory cards.
You're looking at the wrong numbers. Look at the hardware weekly sales since MGS5 launched more than a year ago.
Lionel Richie
Member
Why are you guys so good at getting me to hope for a game that I have 0 interest in to get ported to the NX? Same shit happened in another thread about KH3.
Well, Vita was basically a home console in handheld form.
Not even remotely close to ps2, psp.
Kresnik258
Member
Sony have been trying to siphon users from Vita to PS4 since at least TGS 2014, lol. So no wonder!
LordRaptor
Member
Why would any publisher do that?
Seems like beyond wishful thinking to think anyone is going to spend 10 years and untold millions of dollars to try and make the PS4 more appealing in Japan when Sony themselves aren't.
What it it though?
If NX doesn't significantly outpace Wii U and PS4 then a bunch of Japanese developers will be sweating bullets.
Monster Hunter and Youkai Watch both became popular on portables. Splatoon is the only home console new IP to sell a million copies in a long time.
There hasn't been a new million selling IP on a PlayStation home console since either Onimusha or Kingdom Hearts... Either way like 15 years.
Monster Hunter and Youkai Watch both became popular on portables. Splatoon is the only home console new IP to sell a million copies in a long time.
There hasn't been a new million selling IP on a PlayStation home console since either Onimusha or Kingdom Hearts... Either way like 15 years.
The handheld is part of it, as its just more conducive to the life style, but the problem the market faces to a large degree is that one publisher (two if you count TPC for Pokemon in Japan) controls the vast majority of major & healthy IPs for the market (Pokemon, AC, Mario, etc (and now Splatoon)) and got "hits" from the younger audiences like YW. When that happens, you know your market is fucked. The WiiU suffered redundancy and not a good product, the Vita suffered from not having said (or any) major IP* aside from the one IP from Microsoft... Microsoft.
Its been a common theme this past year or so to watch various IP burn themselves to the ground in one way or another (and this is even true of some Nintendo IP). With only a small handful of series coming out and growing entry on entry.
*And its not just one or two, its the whole stable combined that led to the 3DS's sales in the region, and why no other system will ever get anywhere near it.
Japan is a market in which, comically, a single game on a dead system did more at market for hardware and mindshare for damn near half a year (into a strong holiday) than, effectively, the entirety of the home console development market behind the competing product. This is a sign of there not being a market, and what's left of it has pidgeonholed itself so hard that things like Splatoon can happen.
This is actually the first mainline Dragon Quest game that has launched on multiple platforms (although several have been remade or ported at a later date), and the last two were launched exclusively on Nintendo hardware. DQ XI will be the eighth Dragon Quest game released on 3DS (which I believe puts it at the highest number of DQ releases for any console over the DS), and I have no doubt that sales of the 3DS version of the game are expected to comfortably eclipse the PS4 version. Dragon Quest may be a multi-platform franchise, but Nintendo handhelds are definitely the priority for the franchise.
But which Japanese publishers have avoided Nintendo? Capcom, Square Enix and Level 5 all put their best-performing franchises on Nintendo's handhelds, and the biggest selling games Bandai Namco and Koei Tecmo have developed over the past few years were actually published by Nintendo. Konami is the only major Japanese publisher who hasn't provided much support to Nintendo handhelds over the last few years, but in their current state I don't think it's anything Nintendo would be losing sleep over. After that it's the smaller publishers who are keeping Vita afloat, and while I don't expect them to jump ship immediately, Vita won't be around forever, and eventually they'll have to migrate somewhere (although that somewhere might be mobile).
Devilgunman
Member
Isn't that exactly what NX is rumored to be?
entremet
Member
No MH. No Nintendo IP, which are still very popular in Japan, including Splatoon, which is huge there now.
killatopak
Member
Just like any business that's starting up. You need to invest. KH and XV are good stuff since they're not reliant on the Japanese market to get sales. There's interest in the west so they could have something to fall back on. The idea is to get something that can garner the interest of Japanese while still satisfying western players.
Baby steps man. No need for million sellers at the beginning. Just like how the 3DS gained its sales in the beginning, you bombard it with games that the Japanese likes while still going for western sales.
LordRaptor
Member
Right.
But that's Sonys job. Not a third party publishers.
If a third party publisher can make the same sales from a low budget niche title targetted at PS3 / Vita / PS4, or looking at the future, iPad, why the fuck are they going to choose to make a super high budget title targetted at PS4 instead?
3DS had several million sellers within its first year. The PS4 is nearing it's third year and it doesn't look like it's getting one any time soon.
You are drinking some mighty fine koolaid if you think the console is going to spring to life any time soon.
Oh and to address FFXV Square Enix absolutely cares that it might not hit a million in Japan. Losing a million customers from one game to the next is a massive decline even if you think FFXV won't decline compared to XIII in the West.
I mean in terms of first-party games. Uncharted, Gravity Rush, WipEout, etc were more like games for home console rather than for portable device.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Do you forget that there is an outside world where PS4 is doing exceedingly well and to which many Japanese devs wish to grasp?
killatopak
Member
Yes. That's Sony's job for the PS4. I didn't talk about the PS4. I was talking about consoles in general. Specifically in Japan.
Why do you guys keep talking about PS4 when I wasn't even being specific about which console? You keep putting words in my mouth.
Of course they care if they lose a million sales. WTF did I say they didn't? I'm just saying they are good games to invest in because they can have western sales as back up if the Japanese aren't keen on that game. XV and KH are the best chance SE or any Japanese publisher has to have a resurgence in console sales.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
No. The game can barely run on PS4 and Xbox One. There's 0 chance they'll be able to get the game running at an acceptable level of performance.
I don't think the Japanese market in general is something for Nintendo to lose sleep over, on their own they are plenty flexible. But all others should lose sleep over it unless they want to completely lose the dedicated gaming device market in Japan. The publishers put more works on other systems (aside Level 5, even though even them tried moving away with Little Battler first having been on PSP and with YW development having started on Vita originally), but the market imploded so far that the relatively few entries on Nintendo handhelds now are the best-performing franchises for the lack of other platforms. So your selection is kind of self-fulfilling, if e.g. Final Fantasy no longer has a market for the lack of decent home console install base it's also no longer a best-performing franchise in Japan etc. Nurturing a mainstream market receptive to home console gaming is where everyone dropped the balls hard in Japan.
Despite all the doom and gloom over the PS4 sales, it's actually selling on-par with the PS3. The posts about selling 5 million are ridiculous. Although, there's going be a small decrease in sales compared to the PS3 due to less momentum and changing market conditions ( I expect around 20%), 7+ million sales over it's lifetime will give it a solid, albeit niche, market that third parties can still sell to and make profits. It has continued to get great support from third parties, much more than the PS3, despite sub-par sales and sales of western series such as COD, Battlefield and Ubisoft games are as stronger then it's ever been. If anything, despite the PS4's terrible start, its proven to me that its carved out a small core market that it won't lose them over mobile games. This is unlike Nintendo consoles where we continually see that an overlap between mobile phone market and a its console one.
Other than the n64 and Wii u third party support by Japanese publishers for Nintendo systems are relatively very strong.
Ps4 not doing very hot isn't going to impact development at all. Global publishers are going to continue to tackle those systems which high dev barriers of entry leaves little competition and ton of revenue. The only question is how small Japanese publishers that usually release in Japan only in Sony systems. Digital still leaves a route for PS4 but Japanese have been very reluctant to digital purchases at large. Mobile and Nintendo handhelds are going to battle it out with those small publishers probably being bought out in the end.
Ps4 not doing very hot isn't going to impact development at all. Global publishers are going to continue to tackle those systems which high dev barriers of entry leaves little competition and ton of revenue. The only question is how small Japanese publishers that usually release in Japan only in Sony systems. Digital still leaves a route for PS4 but Japanese have been very reluctant to digital purchases at large. Mobile and Nintendo handhelds are going to battle it out with those small publishers probably being bought out in the end.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
This argument continues to be nonsense. Most of Nintendo's biggest 3DS games are console experiences made for a handheld. Outside of e-shop stuff and Rythmn Heaven, I can't name a single Nintendo game save for maybe Pokemon that's not a originally console franchise.
Congrats PS4, it only took you two and a half years and support from the entire dedicated gaming industry to outsell an EOL platform subsisting solely on first party support.
Source? I've seen people speculate that, but I've never seen that backed up. Level-5's sole Vita releases were just PSP multi-plats, so it's hard to believe they'd invest heavily into something new right off the bat. That initial concept trailer shouldn't be taken as indicative of its hardware roots, as LBX's didn't look like a PSP game.
I also don't see how LBX was them moving away from Nintendo platforms. They just created a new IP for a platform that was also very successful.
Source? I've seen people speculate that, but I've never seen that backed up. Level-5's sole Vita releases were just PSP multi-plats, so it's hard to believe they'd invest heavily into something new right off the bat. That initial concept trailer shouldn't be taken as indicative of its hardware roots, as LBX's didn't look like a PSP game.
I also don't see how LBX was them moving away from Nintendo platforms. They just created a new IP for a platform that was also very successful.
Fredrik
Member
Hmm...
Sounds like the rumours for NX...
Sidewinder
Member
PSVR and Summer Lesson will teach NX some manners and wipe the floor with it, mmw!!1
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Isn't that say more about the Wii U?
That's just the concept trailer (which didn't have a platform attached) uploaded to a Vita Youtube channel. Level-5 liked to pretend PSP games looked like this.
That's why I'm not optimistic about NX performance in the west. People don't need another handheld device (they already have iPhone), and people don't need underpowered home console.
It could work for Japan though.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It's only been out for 2 years though.
capylikesgames
Banned
I know the big news is that PS4 is leading now, but still, props to Wii U for beating it over there for this long! I know the market for consoles there is small, and that the numbers aren't impressive, but it's still cool to see it do OK among however many console owners are left in Japan.
Kresnik258
Member
I thought after the reveal trailer everyone thought Youkai Watch was for PS3? Now it's Vita? Lol.
PdotMichael
Banned
Vita is healthy ahead of PS4 and WiiU
LordRaptor
Member
The PS4 is doing well because it doubled down on the Western 'core' audience and abandoned the Japanese market.
Its more Xbox than the Xbox is.
If it wanted to resuscitate that market, it would have to start moving money away from securing Western exclusives with Western studios and start funding Japanese studios instead.
There is literally zero indication of that happening.
What 'consoles in general' would benefit from AAA JRPGs if you're not talking specifically about the PS4?
PdotMichael
Banned
There isn't a way of somehow saving the Japanese console market, the customers just aren't there anymore in the way they were there back in the PS2 days.
Sony is doing it right working close with companies like From Software to being games with international appeal from Japan.
Sony is doing it right working close with companies like From Software to being games with international appeal from Japan.
How are you defining healthy though? There's been tons of games on the PS4 maintaining it's sales since the previous generation (a lot of dead ones too ofc) and a lot of western sales have increased sales. I would definitely consider those healthy. None of them will reach sales of nintendo games, but thats because its only Nintendo games that ever really do.
The market can still continue healthily and companies can still real create games without 1mil+ sellers. There's going to be a lot of dead series and companies, but the market's not going to die off. It's just going through a contraction that people here still haven't comes to terms with.
I would say that the portion of market that Nintendo consoles market is definitely pigeonholed, but the one that the PlayStation caters, is still diverse in what games they buy, though shrinking. There's no one franchise/publisher that dominates software sales on the Playstation, so the software revenue is more evenly shared, and it gives growth to more publishers willing to throw its franchises on it.
I think Nintendo realizes that its console market is fucked. Honestly Nintendo spouts that its creating a "hybrid" machine, but it's the same as Nintendo leaving the console market and giving it's portable a video out, but allows them to save face in the process.
What other console are you talking about then? Especially one that's getting FFXV, DQXI and KH3? Or do you think PS5 will sell better than PS4?
Sorry, that was a more general point. People seem to think FFXV declining a lot from XIII in Japan doesn't matter because the brand is big in the west but it downplays how important the Japan market is for the franchise.
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Consoles are nowhere near as big as they were at one time in Japan, but they aren't really 'dead' as people proclaim. Generally speaking, PS4 usually sells about 100k a month in Japan on average which is, proportionately, around the same level the USA does considering the US is twice as big in terms of population(around 200k average most of the time in NPD) Hell, this month alone they sold about 150k in just 2 weeks with the release of the slim and Persona 5(which at this moment on PS4 alone has sold more than any previous Persona game lifetime)
The issue is that software doesn't catch on nearly as much as it does on 3DS. Which i lay down to not being so many titles for the Japanese market on display just yet compared to 3DS, which literally is just a Japanese game playing machine.
The issue is that software doesn't catch on nearly as much as it does on 3DS. Which i lay down to not being so many titles for the Japanese market on display just yet compared to 3DS, which literally is just a Japanese game playing machine.
openrob
Member
Well, the Wii U - aside from selling abysmally everywhere else, continued to sell at a similar rate to the PS4 in JP.
Or to put iit simply: The Wii U sold as well as any console could sell in Japan.
Now when thinking that the NX will be a handheld/home console hybrid, it will not be suprising to think that it will sell extremely well in Japan.