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[Mario]

I never thought i would hear bitching over this, after seeing people pay for crap that was already in the disc they paid $60 for, this is a breath of fresh air. All I know is that the PSN is probably the most fairly priced console store and if Sony keeps this up they will buy an enormous amount of goodwill from me, which will result in me spending less money in competing stores and more on PSN.

Thats great for Sony but perhaps not so good for individual developers, some of whom had already priced their content very competitively even before you take sharing into account

Of course, unless the PS3 user base gets really organised, its unlikely that the ability to share would result in many more users than sales - I'd never expect to actually sell a game 100,000 times and end up with 400,000 users for example unless it was being pirated.

 

[davepoobond]

kind of a weird system

 

[kaching]

I wonder how the developers feel about the fact that they may get revenue from 100,000 downloads but in actuality there are 400,000 systems with the priced content from "sharing".

I'm sure they're more than a little ambivalent about it or just not fans of it all, like Mario. Among the freeloaders there will be some who would have paid for the game if they hadn't been given the option to acquire the game for free legitimately. So that's lost sales.

But there will also be people who acquire the game for free who had absolutely no intention of buying the game in the first place. They aren't lost sales but they are now potentially future buyers if the shared game opens their eyes to the work of a studio that they might have previously overlooked. So it's not simply a loss.

In part I guess this boils down to how much of an optimist or pessimist you are about the willingness of people to engage in fair trade for goods offered. Personally, I won't be trying to acquire PSN games for free if I feel the dev/pub is offering a quality package for a fair price. Do you think that attitude is such a rarity that no dev/pub could possibly hope to make money off of PSN games because of the sharing?

Considering that there is no actual "Game Sharing" icon or utility on the PS3 like the one on the DS or PSP, the practical application of this on PS3 is a cluster**** at best. What kind of sense does it make to have users have to submit thier personal emails and passwords to other users in order to "share" the content that was purchased? From reading the methods behind doing this process, it is a hack where the rules are being established as roadblocks are met.

Considering how you're fretting over what this model means for developer profits, I'd think you'd more readily see the sense in this approach for their benefit at least. Whether by design or by accident, the obscurity and limitations of it forces the consumer to take an active, conscious role in the game sharing transaction that's a far cry from the file-sharing orgies with hundreds or thousands on the likes of Napster 1.0 or other P2P apps that's totally transparent and passive once the consumer simply indicates which folders on their PC they want to share.

Let's say there's a million people interested in a new PSN game. At least 200K of those have to buy the game in order to possibly share with the rest. Do you really think 1 million people would be coordinated enough to ensure that only 200K copies are actually bought?

 

[Surreal]

Thats great for Sony but perhaps not so good for individual developers, some of whom had already priced their content very competitively even before you take sharing into account

Yeah, they should rethink that somehow so it benefits everyone while staying fair to the consumer. Raise the price of downloadable games a dollar, for example Gripshift would be $11, and give the original buyer a 50% off coupon to give to a friend. If the friend uses it, developers make an avg. of $8.25 per copy sold. The thing is, not every coupon given out will be used. Let's say one coupon is used for every 3 copies bought at original price (1:3 ratio). If this happened the dev would make an avg. of $10 per copy sold (the target price) and it would encourage sharing/spreading of their game. Plus as the userbase of the PS3 grows, more casual gamers who don't "share" games will buy downloadable games at the original price, and the devs will greatly benefit from the additional $1 added to their target price while the hardcore fans are happy with the discounts. In conclusion, public ignorance will make everyone happy.

Of course tweaking the price of the original game up one more dollar (i.e. Gripshift = $12) would bring the ratio of 'coupon users' to 'original buyers' needed to 'break even' even lower (1:2 ratio).

Pros:
+Everyone has the game tied to their own account
+Devs make money while promoting their game
+People who know what they're doing (read: us) get discounts
+It's a coupon, you either tell someone a 5-8 digit code or (if a service is implemented) 'give' it to them over the PS Network. No need to give out log in info, etc.
+Fairly straight forward process.
+Actual savings, if you and a friend switch off buying and using a coupon, by the 4th game bought each of you would have saved around $7. Around enough to get two games. :lol

Cons:
-My predicted sales ratios needed to break even might not happen at all (I think they're pretty reasonable =P)
-Original price of the downloadable game is raised
-Nothing beats free games, you have to pay with this kind of plan

This could work with any service, but it would probably work with Sony's the best because the way they use real world money. In this situation the attraction of the discount is driving a person's purchase. Remember in the Lemmings thread some people were buying it at $3 just because it was so cheap? :lol 'You saved 400 points on Gripshift' doesn't really have the same effect as 'You saved $5 on Gripshift." Tangible savings FTW.

There are a lot of ways to promote and make profits at the same time, if I can come up with something, they should be able to too. Games would certainly get around faster using a system like this.

edit; hope the math is right, it's late. :lol

 

[Bebpo]

I don't know if it was mentioned but sharing is a mess for the PS1 -> PSP downloads.

I had Crash 1 downloaded from the US store under my US account and was playing it and enjoying it.

I decided to get Marl Kingdom from the HK store under my HK account and it told me in order to play Marl Kingdom on my PSP it would have to DEACTIVATE MY LICENSE FOR MY US ACCOUNT. So by doing it, Crash won't run anymore and if I want Crash to run I'd have to deactivate my Marl Kingdom and each time I reactivate it counts against my 5 total activations.

So if you were GAME SHARING and got a PSP game from someone else, the second you tried to get a game yourself or from someone different you'd lose the game you got from the first person.

Total mess.

Bleh.

 

[Mario]

Yeah, they should rethink that somehow so it benefits everyone while staying fair to the consumer. Raise the price of downloadable games a dollar...

As it happens, pricing is set by the developer/publisher, so there is flexibility in pricing if you think your game is up to scratch.

The coupon idea is interesting but not possible on the current infrastructure as I understand it, but is something that could be put forward to Sony. There is facility to do a "launch special" price ala Blast Factor, which is something we are likely to do on all future titles.


For the record, I am more worried about piracy than sales lost to game sharing. Recent developments on PSP make me nervous.

 

[TTP]

Here is a previous thread about game sharing. Just in case there are some unanswered questions in this one.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134343

Mario, I wouldn't worry too much about this game sharing thing as it is for two reasons:

1 - Seems like very few people even know about this possibility (Sony itself doesn't seem to be promoting it)
2 - Seems like very few people are willing to share their account info.

As it is, I dont see it becoming so widespread to hurt developers too much. People unwilling to spend $9 for a game and therefore asking for someone to share wont probably buy the game in the first place anyway. Also, this game sharing thing may actually help you in making more money with additional content. I know some games aren't game sharable, so additional content might not be sharable too. Hence you get a bigger installed base of [Game X] users to sell your extra content to in the future.

On a side note, this game sharing thing might actually be a limitation rather than an extra given to consumers. Normally, once you buy a game you should be able to redownload it as many times you want right? This would theoretically allow you to share the game with as many people you want since all you do is basically download the content you already bought, just on a different system. Does this "4 extra licences system" work so that you can redownload it only 4 times? Or is it so that the system distinguishes between machines so that you can download infinite times on the first machine through which you bought the game and just 4 on other systems?

 

[gofreak]

So by doing it, Crash won't run anymore and if I want Crash to run I'd have to deactivate my Marl Kingdom and each time I reactivate it counts against my 5 total activations.

Did you try this? The info on SCE's support site on this says that deactivating 'frees up' one of your 5 sharing slots.

 

[Mobius 1]

If by chance anyone wants Lemmings in trade for another game, please PM me or message me on the PS3 (tag is Norante, add me up). I'd love to play Tekken, though.

 

[Sirolf]

If someone share some Tekken love with me,i will gladly give him Lemmings (+ some paypal money if needed).
Pm me

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Here is a previous thread about game sharing. Just in case there are some unanswered questions in this one.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134343

Mario, I wouldn't worry too much about this game sharing thing as it is for two reasons:

1 - Seems like very few people even know about this possibility (Sony itself doesn't seem to be promoting it)
2 - Seems like very few people are willing to share their account info.

As it is, I dont see it becoming so widespread to hurt developers too much. People unwilling to spend $9 for a game and therefore asking for someone to share wont probably buy the game in the first place anyway. Also, this game sharing thing may actually help you in making more money with additional content. I know some games aren't game sharable, so additional content might not be sharable too. Hence you get a bigger installed base of [Game X] users to sell your extra content to in the future.

On a side note, this game sharing thing might actually be a limitation rather than an extra given to consumers. Normally, once you buy a game you should be able to redownload it as many times you want right? This would theoretically allow you to share the game with as many people you want since all you do is basically download the content you already bought, just on a different system. Does this "4 extra licences system" work so that you can redownload it only 4 times? Or is it so that the system distinguishes between machines so that you can download infinite times on the first machine through which you bought the game and just 4 on other systems?

The system was made for sharing games with local buddies so I think that it is possible to re-download the game as many times as you want. The system probably links the system to the download.


But what I'm wondering. Can the others share the game as many times as they want? I suspect the answer is no because the other account has to remain on the hdd.

 

[kikonawa]

i'm wiling to paypal if i can have tekken

 

[TTP]

But what I'm wondering. Can the others share the game as many times as they want? I suspect the answer is no because the other account has to remain on the hdd.

Exactly. They cannot share with their account.

 

[Wario64]

I think we should discuss the ramifications of PSN game sharing in another thread, not trying to be a dick but this thread was setup for people to share games

Anyway, here's a guide about sharing games for the people who want to do it. If you can add this post to the original post skrew, that would be cool. If anyone has any questions, I'll add to the guide:


INSTRUCTIONS/FAQ ON GAME SHARING

For the "sender":

1. Purchase and download a game from the Playstation Store
2. Go to account management for the account and delete the billing information from your personal information if the PS3 saved your credit card info
3. Change your password temporarily for the share
4. Give login info (email address and password) to the receiver
5. When the share is completed, change the password


For the "receiver":

1. In the PS3 XMB menu, add a new user account on your PS3 and sign in to it
2. Select the network on the XMB and create an existing Playstation Network account
3. Use the login information given from the "sender" to create the existing account
4. Login into the account
5. Enter into the Playstation store
6. Click on "Download List" on the upper right near the person's userID and select the game you wish to download and hit download
7. After game is downloaded, notify the "sender" that the download is complete so they can change the password to the account
8. Enjoy!




Q/A:

Q: Should I worry about misuse for my account?
A: If you taken the steps to delete your credit card/billing information and changed your password temporary, it should be safe. If you're paranoid about someone stealing your account, only share with people that you really, really trust

Q: Can't I just make a sub-account and use that to share the games?
A: Not sure if this is allowed, but someone could try and report the results

Q: I just received the game from the sender and the game won't play, help!
A: In order to play the game on your PS3, the game must be activated AND the user account that was used to download the game must stay on your PS3. For example, say you created user account "User1" on your local Playstation 3 and you downloaded a full version of Lemmings. After you download the game, you MUST keep "User1" on your Playstation 3 in order for the game to run on your PS3. If you somehow delete the user account, you must relogin with the sender's account and redownload the game. If the game is still on your HDD, simply redownload then cancel to re-authorize the game.

Q: Do I have to login with the sender's account to play the game?
A: No, it just needs to be authorized on your PS3. You can play the game using your account thereafter. Just do not delete the user account as mentioned above or else the game will be locked out.

Q: I'm trying to download the game from the Playstation store but it is not appearing in the store. Where is it?
A: Games that are purchased disappear from the store. You have to download the game going through the "Download List" screen on the upper right of the Playstation Store.

Q: How many times can I share a game?
A: The store says you can share up to 5 different Playstation 3's.

 

[hyp]

here's my trade offer:

(both)
- blast factor
- lemmings

for tekken: dr

please pm me if you wanna trade, thanks gaffers.

 

[UtadaBarkley]

k, who wants to share T5 with dear ol' Jeff?

I got Blast Factor, Suduko, and Lemmings to trade. Get at me, please, I need some T5 in my life.

 

[CountZeroInt]

I voiced my opinion in the Tekken 5 thread about this, but this ranks a close #4 behind rentals, used games, and piracy as "very bad for the industry". One of the whole main points of electronic distribution was to battle the first three.

 

[Marty Chinn]

To add on to what Wario said, this is what we've been doing for awhile now.

First we set up a universal account that is seperate of our normal accounts. Then we add that universal account to our friends list on our normal account. This allows us to see when it is in use or not. After that, we've all pitched in $20 to the account so that we all have our fair share of money in the pot. We're only allowing 5 people to the account to keep things simple as well. All downloads must be used through this account. Since they allow up to five systems to be authorized for a game, it doesn't matter who does it since whoever uses the universal account on their system to download the game first, that will be the first license authorized to a system.

We've been doing this for awhile now and it's great for everyone. We have a bit more complicated setup where we track who gets what so we know how to divide up the cost of the game to everyone's deduction, but it all works out pretty easily. This makes Tekken cost only $3.20 and Lemmings cost like $0.60.

I suggest instead of doing this random, who wants to share post, get organized with four other people and do something similar so that you have just an easy way of getting new content to share among other people.

I know some people are saying developers are getting screwed on this, but I believe the developer can enable or disable the game sharing aspect on their content. Plus the way I view it is, I probably wouldn't have bought most of the download content, but when I factor out that it's only a couple bucks here and a couple bucks there, I'm more willing to jump in on it to share with people. So I think this actually benefits Sony and developers rather than hurt them. On the flip side, I look at content on the X360 and the Wii and the price is just too much for a lot of the content that I just pass on it. So do the same friends that I share content with on the PS3. Yet had there been game sharing on these systems, I bet we would have bought more content on both of these platforms. So ya, I think Sony actually benefits from the game sharing, at lease from us, rather than being hurt by it. I already own more download content on the PS3 than I own on the 360 and Wii combined.

 

[ant1532]

Ok, I'm willing to purchase any game worth 6 bucks on PSN for Tekken R. If you're willing to share it just tell me what game and I'll buy it and share

 

[aktham]

skrew you got a pm

 

[.hacked]

I don't have any games to trade but if someone can send the new Tekken to me I'll paypal them the $16 to pay for it.

Just pm me, my PSN ID is morphixPS and I'll paypal the payment as soon as I download Tekken

 

[theBishop]

I think some of you are looking at the "game sharing" from the worst case view.

Internet-organized gamesharing is unlikely to take off in any big way. We're far more likely to see outright piracy than individuals sharing their account info with strangers.

The more common use of Gamesharing will be a user logging into a personal friend's Playstation to play a game that's been bought legitimately. I don't see anything wrong with this.

Also, if they didn't allow for this, it would be a disaster when people buy a 2nd system or if they have to get their system repaired.

 

[Pope Benedict XVI]

Also, if they didn't allow for this, it would be a disaster when people buy a 2nd system or if they have to get their system repaired.

I'm not sure about this, but can't 360 users re-download live arcade games if they get their system repaired or replaced?

 

[Shawnwhann]

I'm sure they're more than a little ambivalent about it or just not fans of it all, like Mario. Among the freeloaders there will be some who would have paid for the game if they hadn't been given the option to acquire the game for free legitimately. So that's lost sales.

But there will also be people who acquire the game for free who had absolutely no intention of buying the game in the first place. They aren't lost sales but they are now potentially future buyers if the shared game opens their eyes to the work of a studio that they might have previously overlooked. So it's not simply a loss.

In part I guess this boils down to how much of an optimist or pessimist you are about the willingness of people to engage in fair trade for goods offered. Personally, I won't be trying to acquire PSN games for free if I feel the dev/pub is offering a quality package for a fair price. Do you think that attitude is such a rarity that no dev/pub could possibly hope to make money off of PSN games because of the sharing?

I think that you are a better man most people are given your postion. People who acquire a game for free that they never had the intention of giving a fair shot don't deserve to own the game. Free demos on the network should be the taster that previously uninterested folk should be looking at ideally. I'd argue that if people are going have the option to get something free vs. buying it they are going to go for the free option. Sony should be advocating free demos over sharing a full game that was not purchased. I fear this free for all model is only going to prevent other develoeprs from releasing content over the fear that it will not sell nearly what it should. I mean seriously, we know when a good game comes out and in our community we are pretty good about showing love to the developers that go above and beyond with the commerical sites and the forums all over the net. This does not always translate to great sales, but it helps. If I were a developer I would have serious issues with this idea of "game ste...sharing"

Considering how you're fretting over what this model means for developer profits, I'd think you'd more readily see the sense in this approach for their benefit at least. Whether by design or by accident, the obscurity and limitations of it forces the consumer to take an active, conscious role in the game sharing transaction that's a far cry from the file-sharing orgies with hundreds or thousands on the likes of Napster 1.0 or other P2P apps that's totally transparent and passive once the consumer simply indicates which folders on their PC they want to share.

Let's say there's a million people interested in a new PSN game. At least 200K of those have to buy the game in order to possibly share with the rest. Do you really think 1 million people would be coordinated enough to ensure that only 200K copies are actually bought?

That's the thing!! Wario can post quotes from Sony heads talking about how they want games shared ad naseum, but right now there is not a mechanism in the PS3 infastructure that facilitates "sharing" the games. As far as addressing your hypothetical example, I would suggest that your example can possibly happen. When the methods for profiteering with money and more games becomes common knowledge, why wouldn't people pursue it. If Joe buys a 15 dollar game, what is to stop him from charging folks 3-5 bucks per download to recoup his investment. There are just so many leaks and areas allowing for exploitation it is really alarming. A better model for sharing would to allow users to experience the full game over a specified period of time, before a purchase would required to continue playing the game. I am all about getting a great deal like the rest of the community, but I worry that this unoffical "sharing" will only prevent more gems like Tekken 5 DR:HD from coming down the pipe in the future. I put sharing in finger quotes because it is an obvious euphemism for stealing. Let's be real guys!!

 

[Marty Chinn]

I think that you are a better man most people are given your postion. People who acquire a game for free that they never had the intention of giving a fair shot don't deserve to own the game. Free demos on the network should be the taster that previously uninterested folk should be looking at ideally. I'd argue that if people are going have the option to get something free vs. buying it they are going to go for the free option. Sony should be advocating free demos over sharing a full game that was not purchased. I fear this free for all model is only going to prevent other develoeprs from releasing content over the fear that it will not sell nearly what it should. I mean seriously, we know when a good game comes out and in our community we are pretty good about showing love to the developers that go above and beyond with the commerical sites and the forums all over the net. This does not always translate to great sales, but it helps. If I were a developer I would have serious issues with this idea of "game ste...sharing"



That's the thing!! Wario can post quotes from Sony heads talking about how they want games shared ad naseum, but right now there is not a mechanism in the PS3 infastructure that facilitates "sharing" the games. As far as addressing your hypothetical example, I would suggest that your example can possibly happen. When the methods for profiteering with money and more games becomes common knowledge, why wouldn't people pursue it. If Joe buys a 15 dollar game, what is to stop him from charging folks 3-5 bucks per download to recoup his investment. There are just so many leaks and areas allowing for exploitation it is really alarming. A better model for sharing would to allow users to experience the full game over a specified period of time, before a purchase would required to continue playing the game. I am all about getting a great deal like the rest of the community, but I worry that this unoffical "sharing" will only prevent more gems like Tekken 5 DR:HD from coming down the pipe in the future. I put sharing in finger quotes because it is an obvious euphemism for stealing. Let's be real guys!!

I think what you're all missing here is that sharing is optional. A developer isn't forced to use it. I think sharing will actually net more sales than it normally would on the average game which is great for developers too. Let's compare it to the Wii and the 360. On the Wii, I've bought 1 game so far and that was mostly to try out Virtual Console. I absolutely cannot see spending $8 to $10 per game for old classic games like that. It's neat in concept but I already own most of the games they're offering and at that price, I may as well play it on the old system or even on a emulator on a PC, PS3 or Xbox 1 rather than dish out that much per game. Let's look at the Xbox 360. There is a ton of XBL Arcade games but I've only bought four games: Geometry Wars, Assault Heroes, Street Fighter 2 and Lumines. The biggest issue I have is quality for the price. It's hard for me to think most of the content on Xbox Live Arcade is actually worth the money. I'd rather put that money towards actual 360 games than spend $10 to $15 in some cases for a small Xbox Live Arcade game.

Now let's look at it from the perspective of the PSN. I pretty much own all the content thanks to sharing. Something that used to cost $10 seems like a no brainer at $2. Lemmings? Only cost me 60 cents. Tekken? $3.20. I could see myself buying soooo much more content on the Wii and the 360 if either the price was a lot cheaper or they had a similar implementation as the PSN with game sharing where I can divide up the cost among friends. In fact I see myself casually spending more on the PSN because it only turns out a buck or two here. While the transactions are small, in the long run I bet I spend way more on PSN than I will with Virtual Console or Xbox Live Arcade. Because of that, I can see game sharing to be a good thing for Sony and for developers.

You're thinking of it from the piracy standpoint and it has always been a flawed argument. Just because X number of people pirated the game doesn't mean you lost out on X times cost of the game. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out but from my perspective, game sharing is awesome and I can easily see them getting way more money out of me. I could see a lot of game content I would be getting with the same friends I share PSN games with, but in the end none of us get it because it costs so much for each person. I say it's much better to get that one paid download than none at all.

 

[skrew]

hey maybe you should start a different thread concerning the morality of sharing, but at this time sony allows 5 different PS3s to download the same game... and they tout this as a feature... and i'm gonna take advantage of it before they remember to start charging people for costumes, maps and weapons.

anyway, dark, darogba... you guys done yet?

 

[a Master Ninja]

Game sharing isn't as simple as I originally thought...but it's better than nothing.

 

[Mario]

I think what you're all missing here is that sharing is optional. A developer isn't forced to use it.

Actually, developers are forced to use it (once everything is finalised at least). All the "proper" purchasing and authentication happens outside of the developers control.

I have seen no indication that this is optional functionality.

 

[gbovo]

Actually, developers are forced to use it (once everything is finalised at least). All the "proper" purchasing and authentication happens outside of the developers control.

I have seen no indication that this is optional functionality.

Is there a way you can make a request to Sony that your game should not be "share-able" if you feel it may hinder sales?

 

[Mario]

Is there a way you can make a request to Sony that your game should not be "share-able" if you feel it may hinder sales?

I guess. But I am yet to find someone that actually knows why it is even there in the first place.

Most technology and policy is driven out of SCEI in Japan, so SCEA and SCEE people (who we are actually in contact with) only have limited information and a limited ability to influence such things.

Would perhaps also be nice to set how many times a game could be shared too.

 

[kaching]

I think that you are a better man most people are given your postion.

If you really think someone like me is more the exception rather than the rule then your concerns over this particular transaction model are moot because the pirates/freeloaders of the world won't rely on this game sharing method to leech software, they'll rely on the old standby that's made it to every platform thus far and pre-dates this game sharing by decades: cracked copy protection. It's almost certainly an inevitability on the PS3.

If most people are simply predisposed to not paying for games then there are a number of ways in which they can pursue that already, both legitimate and illegal. Yet many game titles still get bought by the hundreds of thousands or by the millions.

 

[Shawnwhann]

If you really think someone like me is more the exception rather than the rule then your concerns over this particular transaction model are moot because the pirates/freeloaders of the world won't rely on this game sharing method to leech software, they'll rely on the old standby that's made it to every platform thus far and pre-dates this game sharing by decades: cracked copy protection. It's almost certainly an inevitability on the PS3.

If most people are simply predisposed to not paying for games then there are a number of ways in which they can pursue that already, both legitimate and illegal. Yet many game titles still get bought by the hundreds of thousands or by the millions.

I dont think that the only types of people to be discussed within this context are you and the hackers of the world. Remember this is about downloading games not pirating full versions of games on DVDs or BluRays. Your argument is basically crystalized by saying that it is better that 5 people leech off of one purchase than have there be no purchase, and I don't subscribe to that. In this relatively new form to purchasing and receiving games via direct download, the rules are a little bit different. There are not going to games that are selling in the millions via downloads because all consoles aren't hooked up to the internet. If a game sells 200,000 downloads right now, it is considered a huge success on Live. If a good game is getting ravaged by rampant sharing and free distribution, then what incentive do developers have to support that market? I think the Xbox Live model works great because users can sample the games and if it is a really quality title the hooks are there to convert it to a full version game easily. That is the model that needs to be replicated here. Like I said I am all about a good deal, but I want to reward the developers that do more than launch a lazy port with a premium price. That being said, a consistent pricing structure should be standardized so we can know what price to expect when games are announced.

 

[kaching]

I dont think that the only types of people to be discussed within this context are you and the hackers of the world.

You don't even think people like me should be discussed at all since you seem to think we're such a rarity! So what other types of people are there, in this context? If people like myself who want to engage in fair trade for quality services rendered are an oddity then what else is there besides moochers from your perspective?

Remember this is about downloading games not pirating full versions of games on DVDs or BluRays.

Remember we're having a discussion about whether devs get properly compensated for each copy of a game that's distributed to a unique consumer. Consumers already have a number of ways to obtain copies of games that doesn't involve paying the devs/pubs asking price, as I just alluded to above. Pirating, renting, borrowing, trading, etc. all pre-date this game sharing model.

Your argument is basically crystalized by saying that it is better that 5 people leech off of one purchase than have there be no purchase, and I don't subscribe to that.

That's not my argument at all. I disagree with your argument that this is *necessarily* a bad business model with no upside for anyone but freeloaders and maybe Sony because I'm saying it's too soon to tell how it really pans out and I think you're overly cynical about your fellow man.

 

[mashoutposse]

If anyone's still interested in Tekken and doesn't mind sharing their games or Paypaling a couple bucks, PM me.

 

[Mr. Rellik]

Anybody still willing to trade some paypal dinero for tekken?
PM MEH PLZ

 

[ant1532]

I want tekken... please

 

[Shawnwhann]

You don't even think people like me should be discussed at all since you seem to think we're such a rarity! So what other types of people are there, in this context? If people like myself who want to engage in fair trade for quality services rendered are an oddity then what else is there besides moochers from your perspective?

Take a look at the thread for the Tekken game. I imagine alot of activity is going on behind the scenes with PMs as well with people propositioning each other if the thread is a good indicator. In addition to people like you and hackers, there are the casuals that will make some decisions on what to do based on the overall scene of the "game sharing". As people get more acquainted/comfortable with online services and possibilities with today's society, it is not a stretch to suggest casuals will not figure out ways to profiteer. This will especially come to fruition if Sony creates a more user friendly way of "sharing" games.

Remember we're having a discussion about whether devs get properly compensated for each copy of a game that's distributed to a unique consumer. Consumers already have a number of ways to obtain copies of games that doesn't involve paying the devs/pubs asking price, as I just alluded to above. Pirating, renting, borrowing, trading, etc. all pre-date this game sharing model.

I'd argue that pirating games takes a certain level of knowledge about the process that regular casuals don't know all that much about. The game-sharing mechanism can open up a new breed of pirates because there is a pretty easy way to do it compared to getting mod chips installed, burning Isos etc. You cant really compare this to renting games, because users are paying to have access for a limited time. Borrowing and trading is something developers cant and shouldn't take measures to control (if the game installs to the hard drive that's a whole different deal).

That's not my argument at all. I disagree with your argument that this is *necessarily* a bad business model with no upside for anyone but freeloaders and maybe Sony because I'm saying it's too soon to tell how it really pans out and I think you're overly cynical about your fellow man.

I agree it is early, but whenever there is a system that is vulnerable to exploitation more often than not it gets exploited. If you want to shift to arguments about human nature we can start a whole new thread about that. I'm sure I could list a ton of examples throughout history that shows the choices that our fellow man tends to make suck when they are at that moral fork in the road. I wish I had your optimism about mankind, but as someone who had been randomly jumped and had a swastika keyed into my car I know better!!

 

[Sirolf]

Nobody has Tekken for sharing?I will paypal some bucks (Full refund of the game price and Lemmings) for the nice person who will share it with me.
Pm me!

 

[TTP]

Ok, I'd like to have DR too.
Got paypal.
PM me.

 

[Crackerman16]

Listen, this system Sony set up is flawed, but in a good way... at least for gamers, their RL friends, and freeloading internet strangers looking for a bargain. At least Sony isn't as greedy as the other 2 companies regarding downloadable content and microtransactions... yet.

So just quit it with all the pessimistic, holier than thou, morality discussion in this thread and let GAFers take advantage of this loophole in a perfectly legal method of gaming distribution. If this gets out of hand and they start losing big money, I'm sure Sony and developers/publishers will swiftly step in and prevent people from sharing over the internet so easily.

 

[Shawnwhann]

Thanks Crackerman for validating my point!!

 

[.hacked]

If anyone's still interested in Tekken and doesn't mind sharing their games or Paypaling a couple bucks, PM me.

your PM box is full if you can still share pm me and I'll paypal you for the game

 

[gokujin20]

Can someone please share T5DR with me? I can paypal part or whole price of the game. Just PM me if interested.

For those who don't know, I'm in RL best friends with Kabuki Waq. He can vouch for me if anyone is uncertain of my credibility.

 

[Wario64]

If you're gonna paypal the cost of the game, why not just buy the game from the HK store?

 

[.hacked]

If you're gonna paypal the cost of the game, why not just buy the game from the HK store?

how?

 

[Wario64]

how?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5195961&postcount=413

 

[kaching]

Shawn, the problem with your argument that you keep missing is that your deep cynicism gets in the way of the point you're trying to make. You say most people are already predisposed to try to ripoff game makers. Trying then to call this transaction model a corrupting influence is almost meaningless since you claim most people are already corrupted. You can't have it both ways.

Take a look at the thread for the Tekken game.

Take a look at it yourself. You'll see several people going out of their way to figure how to *pay* for the game using US CCs at the HK store.

I'd argue that pirating games takes a certain level of knowledge about the process that regular casuals don't know all that much about. The game-sharing mechanism can open up a new breed of pirates because there is a pretty easy way to do it compared to getting mod chips installed, burning Isos etc.

Pirating games isn't that hard, shawn, and there's plenty of people out there to do the footwork for the less knowledgeable.

PSN Game sharing isn't going to be much easier if your goal is to mooch as much as possible. You need to find people who 1) have PS3s, 2) are willing to give you access to their PSN accounts and 3) don't mind if you never give anything back. That last one in particular is probably going to force freeloaders to cycle through PSN user accounts to keep up the habit. As such it doesn't make this method for freeloading any less labor intensive than any other method.

You cant really compare this to renting games, because users are paying to have access for a limited time.

A limited time that may very well be enough for them to finish the game and get whatever else they wanted out of it (such as make an ISO). And I can compare game sharing to renting games just fine because each rental of a particular game disc is money the developer never sees, just like a game share.

Borrowing and trading is something developers cant and shouldn't take measures to control (if the game installs to the hard drive that's a whole different deal).

I don't care if you think this should be exempt, it's still a perfectly viable method that people can use to circumvent paying the developer fair cost for their creation.

 

[.hacked]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5195961&postcount=413

thanks and done, downloading now

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Can someone please share T5DR with me? I can paypal part or whole price of the game. Just PM me if interested.

For those who don't know, I'm in RL best friends with Kabuki Waq. He can vouch for me if anyone is uncertain of my credibility.

yea ill vouch ...biggest Tekken Freak I know.

 

[vantastic]

people are bitching because sony came up with this great idea first. :lol