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[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Might hurt the world a little bit but Russia maybe a bit more.

I know a major exporter of lamb to Russia cancelled their exports a few weeks ago in protest to Russia involvement in the shooting down.

 

[Dryk]

And yet the majority of Russia loves this man. It's like the soviet union all over again.

It's supposed to be the Soviet Union all over again. Young Russians are told of the glory days where their country was on top of the world. They get nostalgic for the white-washed version of their history and voila, popular support for shit policy.

 

[Amir0x]

Might hurt the world a little bit but Russia maybe a bit more.

I know a major exporter of lamb to Russia cancelled their exports a few weeks ago in protest to Russia involvement in the shooting down.

It's like they keep hinting they might close the airspace over Russia, right? So airplanes can't go through, causing international flights to have to go around the country and thus increase fuel costs and fares.

Only the amount Russia collects in fees from those planes going overheard was calculated to be significantly more than the amount the airlines would lose from going around lol

 

[ЯAW]

It's supposed to be the Soviet Union all over again. Young Russians are told of the glory days where their country was on top of the world. They get nostalgic for the white-washed version of their history and voila, popular support for shit policy.

Old people are with Putin as well, so it's not only young people eating propaganda. Seems like nobody wants to go back to Yeltsin years, they even would go back full USSR instead of the 90s.

So Russians will have to pay higher prices.

The rest of us will have lower prices due to oversupply.



I can get behind this.

Spoiler

Yes I realize that it is bad for the economy.

I'm glad that most countries will find new trading partners in asia but it's going to be hard year for many businesses. All in all, Russia is in no place to place any sanctions that would have long term harm to anyones economy.

 

[Marky Mark]

Perfect.

 

[Locke Lamora]

But sadly I don't think that will happen. Instead we will spill even more oil.

http://www.neues-deutschland.de/artikel/940649.nato-bereitet-manoever-in-ukraine-vor.html

NATO is preparing a maneuver in Ukraine next month. (US Army + Ukraine military will lead, involved are 16 nations, total of 1300 soldiers). I think it's going to get really ugly. Oh and by maneuver, I actually mean 8 maneuvers at the same time.

But don't worry, I bet it's for freedom, peace and democrazy™

Rapid Trident isn't held for the first time though.

2013 summary: This year marked the 11th iteration of the Rapid Trident exercises. The exercise was conducted under the name “Peace Shield” from 1998 to 2002.
http://www.eur.army.mil/RapidTrident/

Hardly seemed to be a problem until now?!

 

[GasProblem]

Russia is also threatening to close the airspace above Siberia for European and American companies flying the trans-Siberia route to Asia.

Great. Sanctions getting worse and worse for both sides is surely going to lead to something good...

 

[Desmond]

I'm a bit ignorant to the whole thing here, but why would Russia be sanctioned for something pro-Russians did? That would have been like Ireland getting sanctioned for the attacks the IRA carried out during the Troubles.

Is it a "straw that broke the camel's back " kind of thing culminating ever since Crimea?

 

[Yagharek]

I'm a bit ignorant to the whole thing here, but why would Russia be sanctioned for something pro-Russians did? That would have been like Ireland getting sanctioned for the attacks the IRA carried out during the Troubles.

Is it a "straw that broke the camel's back " kind of thing culminating ever since Crimea?

"Russian backed" is code for "Russian soldiers using Russian missiles launched in a territory that Russia is trying to annexe without flying a Russian flag. Yet."

 

[Ty4on]

I'm a bit ignorant to the whole thing here, but why would Russia be sanctioned for something pro-Russians did? That would have been like Ireland getting sanctioned for the attacks the IRA carried out during the Troubles.

Is it a "straw that broke the camel's back " kind of thing culminating ever since Crimea?

They support them with weapons and equipment.
https://news.vice.com/article/its-time-to-assign-blame-for-everything-happening-in-ukraine

 

[UnluckyKate]

It's okay Russia has its own champagnskoye

 

[Dice]

russia wot r u doin?

 

[dan2026]

When did Russia go fucking crazy?

 

[Spwn]

When did Russia go fucking crazy?

It was never sane.

 

[Madness]

Old people are with Putin as well, so it's not only young people eating propaganda. Seems like nobody wants to go back to Yeltsin years, they even would go back full USSR instead of the 90s.

I'm glad that most countries will find new trading partners in asia but it's going to be hard year for many businesses. All in all, Russia is in no place to place any sanctions that would have long term harm to anyones economy.

This is not entirely true. Russia, if it gets desperate, can wield a lot of influence and cause many headaches for the West. There is a reason Germany and the EU have avoided heavy sanctions to the Russian Oil/Gas industry. Of course Russia has more to lose here, but any sanctions on say Gazprom, will instantly cut almost 1/3rd of the oil and gas Germany receives daily and instantly send the country into a recession. There is just no way anyone can pick up the Russian slack that quick. Do people in Berlin really want to pay 10 times more for oil and gas? It's funny that it hasn't been targeted yet.

Russia can do other things, for example, no US heavy lift capability which they've already said they won't renew. That means the US can no longer conduct experiments, send astronauts to space on Russian rockets and they won't have any alternatives for at least half a decade. Another could be to stop oil and transport supplies to US troops in Afghanistan etc.

Russia makes up nearly 8-9% of the total exports for the US poultry industry. Instantly, that also causes billions in losses to the US. Even though it hurts Russia more. It's crazy, they'll keep playing this tit for tat game, Russia will come out the worst but it's going to hurt the economy and industries of other countries for no reason.

When did Russia go fucking crazy?

When a ruthless former KGB Lt. Colonel decided he wanted to be the leader of Russia and turn it back into an authoritarian state and to try and revive Soviet nationalism and unity.

 

[GCX]

Russian grocery stores will be wastelands in a few weeks.

I means there's just no way they can replace all the imported food (which is about 40% of all the food products) with something else in a day's notice.

Crazy.

 

[GasProblem]

Saw Tweets about Putin adressing the nation at around 18:00 local time in an emergency decleration, but luckily the Kremlin is denying it.

https://twitter.com/russian_market/status/497325157716099072/photo/1

Really don't need this escalating any further.

 

[soepje]

Crazy what one little man is able to achieve. I wonder how this will be twisted in Russian media once prices go up and they start running out of food.

 

[Kenshin001]

I'm sure they have plenty of potatoes.

 

[Spwn]

It'll be interesting to see how this will affect my country. According to this article, the Finnish dairy industry could lose up to 400 million euros. That's quite a devastating blow to a country this small.

Also getting my hopes up that Valio (the biggest producer of dairy products in Finland) brings its Russia-only organic products to Finnish shelves now that they can't export them. According to them the reason most of their organic products aren't available in Finland is because "Russian customers value high quality", declaring Finns as second grade customers in the process. So secretly I'm smiling when they take a hit from this, but will be sad if this will result in lay-offs in the long run.

 

[ЯAW]

This is not entirely true. Russia, if it gets desperate, can wield a lot of influence and cause many headaches for the West. There is a reason Germany and the EU have avoided heavy sanctions to the Russian Oil/Gas industry. Of course Russia has more to lose here, but any sanctions on say Gazprom, will instantly cut almost 1/3rd of the oil and gas Germany receives daily and instantly send the country into a recession. There is just no way anyone can pick up the Russian slack that quick. Do people in Berlin really want to pay 10 times more for oil and gas? It's funny that it hasn't been targeted yet.

My point was that Russia can't enforce sanctions that would place real hurt on others because it would ultimately hurt them more. Food sanctions were obvious choice. Russia can manage it, they can turn to domestic products. Russia knows dam well it can't survive without trade. Gazprom could potentially do real harm to EU but simply won't becuase it would again hurt Russia more then EU. Food sanctions are going to hurt many countries in short term but there are other takers. New trade deals are obviously not made in one night but they will be made.

 

[GCX]

It'll be interesting to see how this will affect my country. According to this article, the Finnish dairy industry could lose up to 400 million euros. That's quite a devastating blow to a country this small.

Also getting my hopes up that Valio (the biggest producer of dairy products in Finland) brings its Russia-only organic products to Finnish shelves now that they can't export them. According to them the reason most of their organic products aren't available in Finland is because "Russian customers value high quality", declaring Finns as second grade customers in the process. So secretly I'm smiling when they take a hit from this, but will be sad if this will result in lay-offs in the long run.

While it's definitely a big blow, it won't a 400 million euro blow. Valio for instance can turn its focus on dairy products that can be exported long distances and somewhat patch the hole left by Russia that way. They're forced to find new export markets.

 

[Pagusas]

So Mitt Romney was right about Russia.

 

[GYNGA]

This ban will hurt some businesses that's for sure. From what I know a lot of Eastern European companies make most of their profit by exporting to Russia.

 

[Polari]

The article seems to indicate it will only really affect a small section of the bourgeoisie within Russia. Seeing as the sanctions are only against a select few countries there's not going to be mass starvation.

 

[ICKE]

While it's definitely a big blow, it won't a 400 million euro blow. Valio for instance can turn its focus on dairy products that can be exported long distances and somewhat patch the hole left by Russia that way. They're forced to find new export markets.

It's more than that, we are looking at a 25% drop in our Eastern grocery trade. There is nothing to replace that with in this current economy. Russia knows that these sanctions will hurt smaller European players and the plan is to create division. It's probably going to work, the opposition in Finland already believes that we should negotiate directly with Russia.

If Russia does target commercial routes that go through Siberian airspace, it would be catastrophic for Finnair and probably anger the electorate. At some point we might have to re-evaluate our position within the community, because while the Russian foreign policy has been disappointing, the ethnic tensions in areas such as Transnistria or in Eastern-Ukraine hardly warrant a full blown trade war . It is detestable, just like the United States plunging the entire Middle-East into chaos, but not worth risking our fragile economy.

Switzerland has a chance to replace our dairy products now I would assume. See it's all bullshit when the European community does not work together.

 

[Riki]

When did Russia go fucking crazy?

Ivan The Great

 

[Ether_Snake]

It's more than that, we are looking at a 25% drop in our Eastern grocery trade. There is nothing to replace that with in this current economy. Russia knows that these sanctions will hurt smaller European players and the plan is to create division. It's probably going to work, the opposition in Finland already believes that we should negotiate directly with Russia.

If Russia does target commercial routes that go through Siberian airspace, I don't know what will happen. It would be catastrophic for Finnair and probably anger the electorate, a small country can only take so much.

Airplanes could fly through anyway, what will Russia do? Shoot them down?

 

[linsivvi]

Airplanes could fly through anyway, what will Russia do? Shoot them down?

No, but you will see customers take other airlines. Nobody is going to risk their lives over this.

 

[GYNGA]

Airplanes could fly through anyway, what will Russia do? Shoot them down?

Yes

 

[ICKE]

Russia is looking to import meat from Brazil, various other groceries from other South-American nations, cheese from New Zealand and so on. At the same time representatives in Finland have stated that our food production is facing a national crisis and thousands of jobs are at risk.

Any people from Poland over here? What's the situation, as bad?

 

[Nivash]

Airplanes could fly through anyway, what will Russia do? Shoot them down?

No airliner is crazy enough to try if Russia actually does shut down its airspace. If someone did it anyway it would be treated as any other rogue aircraft: first ATC would contact them and tell them to turn around. Then, fighters would intercept it and try to force it to turn around. If the aircraft still fails to comply it could very well get shot down. Especially after 9/11.

 

[aznpxdd]

China does what is in China's interest. They are not going to do anything to help Russia because Russia is their commie friend. They'll buy natural gas and other raw materials from Russia but only because that is in China's best interest. They like to work with parties that are sanctioned against because it allows them to get cheap prices.

And China still has some territorial disputes with Russia.

And you don't think the factories are going to welcome more orders? To make more money? Boost the shipping industry in its current shitty state?

 

[QuicheFontaine]

The US expected correctly that they would be able to move in and replace Russia as a major energy provider to Western Europe. Also don't emphasize the Russia/China trade as being a net positive for Russia. As soon as China saw Russia was in a bad place trade wise they finally agreed to sign a energy trade deal that had been stalling for decades that was altered to be heavily in favor of China. The net loser has been Russia throughout this whole war.

Sanctioning Food to me is a desperate move. Russia along with Japan was the only G8 net importer of Food which meant Food cost more there usually and was always more price sensitive to fluctuations in the Food market. Add to that the fact Russia has a history of civil unrest based around a lack of Food and I have to again question Putin's logic in makibg this decision.

Is this true?? I didn't think the UK was self-sufficient foodwise.

 

[kitch9]

Russian grocery stores will be wastelands in a few weeks.

I means there's just no way they can replace all the imported food (which is about 40% of all the food products) with something else in a day's notice.

Crazy.

A few days, panic buying is a powerful thing.

 

[Ether_Snake]

And you don't think the factories are going to welcome more orders? To make more money? Boost the shipping industry in its current shitty state?

Sure, but Russia can't bargain in its position, so it will accept anything.

 

[appaws]

So Mitt Romney was right about Russia.

No. I would say that the discussion of the issues relating to this situation should be completely different from an American perspective compared to a European one. Maybe the EU has to do something about the situation. The US however, should run for the hills.

The neoconservatives and the war party element in Washington have been set on their heels over the past few years by events. They were desperate to go to war in Syria and they would love a rekindled cold war with the Russians....

....and they are not going to get what they want. The foreign policy disaster known as the Bush administration has created a groundswell of anti-interventionism on the populist right to match that on the populist left. If you GAF lefties have to find one thing to like about the tea party, there it is.

 

[Raistlin]

Russia really is turning into North Korea

 

[QuicheFontaine]

We used to do a lot of trade food wise with the common wealth. These days were being hounded into EU produce.

We must still be net importers though, right?

 

[Fox318]

Russian grocery stores will be wastelands in a few weeks.

I means there's just no way they can replace all the imported food (which is about 40% of all the food products) with something else in a day's notice.

Crazy.

Maybe they learned how to eat car dashcam videos?

 

[michaelius]

Airplanes could fly through anyway, what will Russia do? Shoot them down?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

yes

 

[thesuperfunk]

Way to shoot yourself in the foot Russia!

 

[SmoothOperator]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/ecb-leaves-rates-unchanged-as-expected-1407412375

Mario Draghi himself recognizes that this may very well affect EU economy and keeps an eye on it.

This nothing but a lose-lose situation.

Even more hypocritical given the aftermaths of the Israeli pollitics in Gaza and those of Russia in Ukraine , but no sanctions whatsoever for Israel.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

It's like they keep hinting they might close the airspace over Russia, right? So airplanes can't go through, causing international flights to have to go around the country and thus increase fuel costs and fares.

Only the amount Russia collects in fees from those planes going overheard was calculated to be significantly more than the amount the airlines would lose from going around lol

*sighs*

Vedomosti quoted one source as saying a ban could cost airlines like Lufthansa, British Airways and Air France 1 billion euros ($1.3 billion) over three months, but industry experts said that figure was probably too high.

Avoiding Russian airspace would probably be 25-50 percent more expensive than paying fees for transit, said Russian aviation consultant Boris Ryabok, estimating European airlines would lose around $100-200 million per year, less than the cost to Russia of the lost fees.

Lufthansa said it operates about 180 flights a week through Siberian airspace but declined further comment, as did British Airways.

They pay 300 million to fly through Siberia, if prices rose anywhere close to 40% they wont be losing 100-200 million like Boris suggested, they will be losing closer to that billion mark and it will be disaster for those airlines.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

True to form, Soviet Russia indeed sanctions you.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

They recently passed some law requiring all bloggers with more the 3000 thousand visitors to register with the state.

Russia is back-sliding badly.

Russia should be friends with Singapore
We had some arbitrary law last year where sites that has any discussion about Singapore affairs and have a certain number of visitors per month must register and give a deposit of S$10,000 to the government as collateral, forfeitable if you talk about something disagreeable. Caused some sites to close because they were run for no profit.

 

[PS3GamerKyle]

Its like an eternal curse of a nation

Eh, you're right, but Russians have historically tended to favor a strong central power.

 

[Amir0x]

*sighs*


They pay 300 million to fly through Siberia, if prices rose anywhere close to 40% they wont be losing 100-200 million like Boris suggested, they will be losing closer to that billion mark and it will be disaster for those airlines.

I didn't say it wouldn't hurt them. I simply said it will hurt Russia more.

 

[Iph]

Can you just retire already, buddy?

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

I didn't say it wouldn't hurt them. I simply said it will hurt Russia more.

If the airlines are going to lose anywhere close to a billion dollars on the account of higher costs of operation how does it hurt Russia more (considering the airlines pay 300 million to traverse through Russian airspace?