OuterLimits
Member
I thought it was fascinating last night when Anderson Cooper and David Gergen said it was wrong to not consider Fox News part of the mainstream.
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RNC suspending GOP Feb '16 debate with NBC (Because lol CNBC)
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I thought it was fascinating last night when Anderson Cooper and David Gergen said it was wrong to not consider Fox News part of the mainstream.
Jacksinthe
Banned
I don't disagree with the RNC. Mods were trash, IMO. The driving force for debates is to learn about the candidates and their "plans" (lol) - but when you've got mods asking one candidate to talk trash about another - that's BS. That needs to get called on, no matter what you think of the candidates. We can talk all day about how childish the candidates are being but they have valid criticism here, IMO. I wouldn't want that behavior for my Democratic candidates so I'm extending that same hand to the Republicans. Might not like them but I can't disagree here.
You don't even have to look outside America, just the last Democratic debate.
The GOP continues to get it easy because of the fear our media has of what the GOP is gonna already do anyways which is cry about bias if they are too tough. Which CNBC just showed. They weren't even that tough or overall even that good but when they did start pushing they got attacked.
dapperbandit
Banned
I'm all for hard questions to keep the candidates on their toes.
But please, the moderation was contrived nonsense to try and turn it into some kind of cage match that would be entertaining as opposed to informative. Chris Christie's "what the fuck are you talking about moment" when Bush was asked about fantasy football was apt.
A more sensible debate would be easier with less candidates but let's not pretend the moderators did a good job or ignore the fact they didn't because "lol republicans".
But please, the moderation was contrived nonsense to try and turn it into some kind of cage match that would be entertaining as opposed to informative. Chris Christie's "what the fuck are you talking about moment" when Bush was asked about fantasy football was apt.
A more sensible debate would be easier with less candidates but let's not pretend the moderators did a good job or ignore the fact they didn't because "lol republicans".
Hillary's team wanting a minimal amount of Dem debates was smart strategy.
Ol No Bones
Banned
In my lifetime I have not seen a well moderated meaningful presidential debate. In my view none of them I have seen are truly debates because there is no serious cross-examination. Cross-ex is where debate truly happens in my experience. I realize a meaningful debate isnt what brings ratings but that's a sad state of affairs and says more about the American people than anything. I don't get the impression that many people actually care about ideas. Personality is the main factor. Brief opening statements, rebuttals, rebuttals cross-ex and brief closing statements would actually bring a debate to life. Obviously that would be difficult with so many candidates in the primary. But really the debates should be grounded to a specific issue at a time and go from there.
What was the context of that? They certainly are mainstream in the sense that they are a very popular network that gets a large share of the political and current events viewer pie.
The question that set Cruz off was bullshit too. Instead of asking him to explain why he opposed the budget agreement, the question presupposed the budget agreement to be a wonderful accomplishment, then asked Cruz if he was a piece of shit for not agreeing.
OuterLimits
Member
Which question did Carson lie on? I wouldn't be surprised, he does flip his positions maybe more than Hillary. Are you referring to his involvement with that company?
EatinOlives
Member
Christie's "moment" was pandering to the base because he saw it played well with Cruz and Rubio, the former who started the "let's slam the moderators" deflection and the latter who just jumped on the bandwagon. Christie's the same guy in the debate who spun everything into "that bitch Hillary!!" and his little diet racist rant about how Obama's "disrespecting police officers". He's not at all interested in any kind of substantial debate because he doesn't engage in one even when he has the chance.
Veritigo_X
Member
Yeah, he straight up lied about being a spokesperson for Mannatech. That's when he went on his tangent about the liberal media being out to get him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQSoHRwtwvI
freeofgreed
Member
Fuuuuck. The one debate I miss and it's where shit hit the fan apparently. I'm fine with this though since CNBC seems to be the only host who doesn't want to offer a free stream, so it's not like i'd be able to watch it live anyways.
That primarily but also when CNBC laid out how his numbers were wrong and he just kept saying the facts back him up. Not a lie in the classical sense but a clear intentional deception because he knows he doesn't have an answer so is trying to shut down the questioning.
BoboBrazil
Member
Republicans always operate on fear mongering, liberal media out to get them, and lies and deception. What's new?
freeofgreed
Member
Lol thanks. I was planning on watching it anyways but I really do prefer watching it live though. Half the fun is the gaf thread.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
people are actually defending CNBC there?
cmon man, as shitty and batshit the GOP field is, these where some of the worst questions(or bad formulation of questions) i've heard in a debate in a long time.
There where some good questions and follow ups, but some of these leading questions where straight juvenile and pure instigation.
cmon man, as shitty and batshit the GOP field is, these where some of the worst questions(or bad formulation of questions) i've heard in a debate in a long time.
There where some good questions and follow ups, but some of these leading questions where straight juvenile and pure instigation.
I was honestly surprised it's up on youtube and viewable globally. Live is still a special luxury though.
Not necessarily defending CNBC, but think it's ridiculous the party that wants to get tough on everyone is taking its ball and going home like a bunch of whiny babies. They got away with straight up lies and are now calling the network that helped create the tea party part of the liberal media. They can fuck right off in my opinion.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Most of us have said the exact same thing.
The difference is that grown men shouldn't be having meltdowns on stage and refusing to answer questions because of it.
However, Cruz smelt blood in the water, and the other sharks joined in. Add an audience that's sympathetic, and you have a recipe for a shit stew that people actually want to eat.
I'm not absolving CNBC of responsibility, but the candidates were no better. It's one of the few times where saying "Everybody sucks" is appropriate.
I honestly will be a bit pissed if they don't. CNN though is like the kid that tries to please everyone but just ends up pissing people off a lot. So they probably will throw some Wolf Blitzer at them or something.
Cymbal Head
Banned
Cruz's attack on the blamescream screedia was so effective that not only did it derail the rest of the CNBC debate, it preemptively destroyed a future debate.
None of the candidates will ever have to answer a question again.
None of the candidates will ever have to answer a question again.
OuterLimits
Member
They were referring to the debate and how stuff like last night make it easy to attack the media. Gergen brought up Fox News and Cooper commented that it is "laughable" that some don't consider Fox News part of mainstream. He was referring to ratings though. Gergen argued that much of the mainstream print media leans to the left while talk radio is on the right. Most journalists self identify as liberal.
Cooper also said many liberals attacked him for being conservative at Dem debate.
Has answering questions helped Obama talk to Putin and Iran?
Fox News is larger than most other networks. Why would they NOT be mainstream?
They like to pretend they're not, but they're frikkin huge.
OuterLimits
Member
He also flipped on ethanol subsidies. I wonder how that will play in Iowa.
TwoDurans
"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
I'm not saying I condone what CNBC did, I just hate that phrase. It's very existence reminds the world of the buffoon the RNC put on the ticket in 2008.
EatinOlives
Member
It's why Rubio whining about the "mainstream media" makes no sense. Fox News is the most watched 24hr cable news channel by far. If any one of them is mainstream, it's Fox News. But a lot of their die hard viewers like to think of themselves as a minority to feed their persecution complex, so they like to think they're a small-time movement fighting against the Big Bad Liberal Media Elite Sitting in Their Ivory Towers.
I really don't agree with Cooper's assessment that it's not mainstream. It absolutely is.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Tell em..
OuterLimits
Member
Some like to argue Fox News isn't mainstream because of conservative bias. Gergen seemed to be arguing that since much of print media and some networks are left leaning, you can't say Fox News is not mainstream merely by leaning right since they also serve a huge demographic of the country. That is what I took from the conversation.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
Of course to the Republican candidates, any question about the economy is a gotcha question because you they can't explain whatever plan they have without mentioning how it will fuck over anyone not making 6 figures.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Eh, while almost every debate with 10+ people is going to be borderline unwatchable, the CNBC one was especially so because the moderators had some ridiculous questions and just did a terrible job actually moderating. Its one thing when the candidates are going back and forth with each other but too often you had the moderators blathering over the candidates and cutting them off and randomly jumping to completely bizarre topics.
It was just a shit show from a purely viewing experience. Granted, that's more or less the case in any of these debates when you have this many people on stage but the moderators in the CNBC debate did a terrible job moderating. If they want to have a back and forth with a given candidate, get them in a one on one interview, not a debate with a bunch of other people on stage.
It was just a shit show from a purely viewing experience. Granted, that's more or less the case in any of these debates when you have this many people on stage but the moderators in the CNBC debate did a terrible job moderating. If they want to have a back and forth with a given candidate, get them in a one on one interview, not a debate with a bunch of other people on stage.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Dear NBC: you didn't kill Trump dead enough, so we refuse to work with you.
The debate was really bad, but it's still kind of hilarious they're trying to turn this into a "librul media" thing. The debate was bad not because of some kind of bias (this was CNBC for crying out loud!), but because the moderators utterly failed to control it and because they tried too hard for drama with dumb questions.
OuterLimits
Member
Lol. This is funny, but I'm sure this isn't far from the truth. Hell, Kasich seemed to be the attack dog trying to take out Trump and Carson. Trump destroyed Kasich though.
OuterLimits
Member
No. People won't remember it come the general. Unless somehow Harwood hosts a general debate which won't happen.
It gives Democrats an easy talking point about the GOP candidates being unfit to handle tough situations.
So at best, it gives the candidates who shot back at the moderators(Cruz, Christie) a poll boost in the short term?
Laevateinn
Member
Nobody will remember this going into the general because
and even if Democrats go after the nominee for this, they will just deflect and blame someone else.
I like how CNBC is getting hammered and yet it was Fox News that blatantly tried to take down some of the candidates... Some of their first questions just pointed out Trump could betray the party and that Carson was a dingbat on foreign policy. Meanwhile they lobbed softballs at Jeb.
Yeah. It's almost amazing how fast revisionist history worked here.
Plus they also had questions meant to make the candidates fight.
shadowsdarknes
Member
Your job at President isn't going to be fun or fair, either. You're going to get loaded questions and those looking to give a rough time. Rather than moan and whine, you just need to act like an adult.
If a question seems unfair, rephrase the question.
When CNN asked the Dems, "Do Black lives matter or do all lives matter", I was thinking, "what a terrible way to phrase a question of such importance".
Black lives matter, but saying "black lives matter" doesn't mean that other lives don't matter. But the question was sort of being presented as a choice rather than actually debating the merit of the movement.
If you don't like the way you're being asked the question, clarify the flawed nature of the question and state your opinion.
The Republican bubble is scary though. They are thinking that CNBC is some lefty loony network when they more typically align with big business Republican interests.
Ted Cruz can't handle questions about the debt ceiling that don't present his cause as noble.
The media doesn't have to play nice. But the ole "liberal media is out to get us!" cry is in full force. The bubble in which they live is remarkable.
If a question seems unfair, rephrase the question.
When CNN asked the Dems, "Do Black lives matter or do all lives matter", I was thinking, "what a terrible way to phrase a question of such importance".
Black lives matter, but saying "black lives matter" doesn't mean that other lives don't matter. But the question was sort of being presented as a choice rather than actually debating the merit of the movement.
If you don't like the way you're being asked the question, clarify the flawed nature of the question and state your opinion.
The Republican bubble is scary though. They are thinking that CNBC is some lefty loony network when they more typically align with big business Republican interests.
Ted Cruz can't handle questions about the debt ceiling that don't present his cause as noble.
The media doesn't have to play nice. But the ole "liberal media is out to get us!" cry is in full force. The bubble in which they live is remarkable.
teruterubozu
Member
eh, George W. Bush avoided tough questions and became prez. It's possible.
"I would stand up to that bully putin! Unlike that soft Muslim communist atheist nig... Obama!"
*five minutes later*
"Stop bulling me wahhhhh 😭😭😭😭😭 liebrul media 😖😖😖"
*takes ball and goes home*
The party of personal responsibility eh.
*five minutes later*
"Stop bulling me wahhhhh 😭😭😭😭😭 liebrul media 😖😖😖"
*takes ball and goes home*
The party of personal responsibility eh.
The Republican establishment wanted Jeb to look good. That's their main problem with the debate. Jeb basically imploded on stage, thus ruining the establishment's best shot at getting him nominated. Now they are going to have to look towards Rubio as their new savior.
They could give less of a shit about Cruz and Trump looking bad. They want them to lose because Cruz and Trump are unelectable.
They could give less of a shit about Cruz and Trump looking bad. They want them to lose because Cruz and Trump are unelectable.
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