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[DR2K]

She has too many tools. Does too much damage close range. Period. Your whole argument is that some characters can outrun her? Run right off the object point and lose doesn't sound like the best strategy. You're hella stretching hard.

She has no mobility options. This is a huge disadvantage to a character who can do a lot of damage up close after a few seconds. No need to reach, this is a basic common sense approach to all weapons or characters designed this way.

Almost every character is superior to her at mid and long ranges, and she has to earn her damage output to be a threat at close ranges.

 

[Yudoken]

No free invincible shoryukens.

No free wall bounce for Mika.

LP/LK anti air nerfs.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

She has no mobility options. This is a huge disadvantage to a character who can do a lot of damage up close after a few seconds. No need to reach, this is a basic common sense approach to all weapons or characters designed this way.

Almost every character is superior to her at mid and long ranges, and she has to earn her damage output to be a threat at close ranges.

The amount of damage she can do and the ease of her reaching close range far outweigh any negatives of her not being effecting past close range

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

She has no mobility options. This is a huge disadvantage to a character who can do a lot of damage up close after a few seconds. No need to reach, this is a basic common sense approach to all weapons or characters designed this way.

Almost every character is superior to her at mid and long ranges, and she has to earn her damage output to be a threat at close ranges.

She has huge close range damage and a shield generator for everyone that never runs out. If you play her smart around the objective point she is deadly as hell and has no need to bother with medium to long range encounters. Throw in the teleporter for the first point, turrets etc. OP AF. You can reply to me all you want and it won't change my mind. Up to you if you want to waste your time or not,

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Symm is strong, but shes not roadhog or reinhardt level. Shes one of those characters thats extremely difficult for certain characters to deal with however, which seems to be the kind of characters that generate a lot of salt. Like Mei

 

[blakep267]

Honestly, if you are constantly dying to Symmetra as a flanker, you deserve it. Her range is limited, so getting away is not very hard. Her entire purpose is to get her ult up, and that isn't very hard to break if you have a Tracer ult


You are McCree, you still have time to react with a flashbang

She has a health and shield. A flash bang and fan the hammer isn't going to take her down before she takes you down

 

[antitrop]

roadhog is better than ever lol

It was a buff for lesser skilled players and a nerf for higher skilled players.

 

[DR2K]

The amount of damage she can do and the ease of her reaching close range far outweigh any negatives of her not being effecting past close range

What tools does she have that allow her to reach close range(arms length) easily?

 

[Pundere]

She has a health and shield. A flash bang and fan the hammer isn't going to take her down before she takes you down

Fan the hammer does 45 damage per shot at close range and Sym only has 200 health. I'm no math doctor but you should be able to kill her with a flash and 5 hits or 4 hits and a melee.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

What tools does she have that allow her to reach close range(arms length) easily?

Her mini Reinhardt shield

 

[Dark Ninja]

What tools does she have that allow her to reach close range(arms length) easily?

Throw shield, run behind, hold left click down and take down the entire team. Easier if you have mini turrets up and shield generator.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

Throw shield, run behind, hold left click down and take down the entire team. Easier if you have mini turrets up and shield generator.

Pretty much this. It's terrifying having a Symm run at you with a shield in front of her. She has soooo many damn tools and does ridiculous damage.

You guys can argue all you want about range, but when you're forced to push on an objective point that means squat. Symm, Soldier and Anna are easily the strongest characters in the game right now imo. Roadhog is still great, but he has limitations. He's more of a quickly take out 1 or 2 characters for a push thing. His output is far from constant due to his hook refresh and small ammo clip. His changes were completely fair. I can't believe I'm saying that as balancing changes have largely been a complete mess up to this point in OW.

But yeah, I'm maining Roadhog right now. If they D.VA the shit out of him I'm done with the game at this point.

 

[Mesoian]

She has a health and shield. A flash bang and fan the hammer isn't going to take her down before she takes you down

....what?


It absolutely will, especially if you do the flash, fan, roll, fan combo.

If you're complaining about when she has 350 health because she has a sheild generator up and there's a torb there, then you have bigger problems in your situation and you need to have a more mobile character start looking for those tools.

Pretty much this. It's terrifying having a Symm run at you with a shield in front of her. She has soooo many damn tools and does ridiculous damage.

You guys can argue all you want about range, but when you're forced to push on an objective point that means squat. Symm, Soldier and Anna are easily the strongest characters in the game right now imo. Roadhog is still great, but he has limitations. He's more of a quickly take out 1 or 2 characters for a push thing. His output is far from constant due to his hook refresh and small ammo clip. His changes were completely fair. I can't believe I'm saying that as balancing changes have largely been a complete mess up to this point in OW.

But yeah, I'm maining Roadhog right now. If they D.VA the shit out of him I'm done with the game at this point.

WHY ARE YOU NOT RUSHING THROUGH SYMM SHEILDS AND HOOKING HER IMMEDIATELY?!?!? Symm gains power when you run, which is a problem for people like Zarya who doesn't have guarenteed damage in every encounter, but with most of the cast, roadhog included, the solution to dealing with symm is killing her immediately, not retreating.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Pretty much this. It's terrifying having a Symm run at you with a shield in front of her. She has soooo many damn tools and does ridiculous damage.

You guys can argue all you want about range, but when you're forced to push on an objective point that means squat. Symm, Soldier and Anna are easily the strongest characters in the game right now imo. Roadhog is still great, but he has limitations. He's more of a quickly take out 1 or 2 characters for a push thing. His output is far from constant due to his hook refresh and small ammo clip. His changes were completely fair. I can't believe I'm saying that as balancing changes have largely been a complete mess up to this point in OW.

But yeah, I'm maining Roadhog right now. If they D.VA the shit out of him I'm done with the game at this point.

you are maining hog and struggling against symm? LOL

also, in your strongest list you ignore Rein!? Come on man.

Symm struggles against a few characters 1v1. Winston, Roadhog (just wait until she starts her beam on you then hook her. Its super easy. wait are you on console? Maybe its hard there). Pharah, Tracer. She also dominates several characters like Bastion, Torb, Reaper, and is more dangerous when surrounded by her own teammates. Shes a weird character in the grand scheme of things, not OP but her balance is wonky, kind've like Mei.

 

[Mesoian]

you are maining hog and struggling against symm? LOL

also, in your strongest list you ignore Rein!? Come on man.

Symm struggles against a few characters 1v1. Winston, Roadhog (just wait until she starts her beam on you then hook her. Its super easy. wait are you on console? Maybe its hard there). Pharah, Tracer. She also dominates several characters like Bastion, Torb, Reaper, and is more dangerous when surrounded by her own teammates. Shes a weird character in the grand scheme of things, not OP but her balance is wonky, kind've like Mei.

Indeed. If (when) the range and hold on her left click is reduced by 2, she'll be perfectly fine. I don't think she should be a decent pharah counter and speed boosted lucio should be able to escape her.

But man, she is not infallible like some of you make her out to be. She crumbles to almost every combo in the game.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

....what?


It absolutely will, especially if you do the flash, fan, roll, fan combo.

If you're complaining about when she has 350 health because she has a sheild generator up and there's a torb there, then you have bigger problems in your situation and you need to have a more mobile character start looking for those tools.

You guys are trying too hard. Her shield gen affects everyone on the objective point and her close range util is too ridiculous with her damage, shield, and turrets. lol Torb? Really? Nah, no one plays him. But when you have a Symm with shield generators up and an Anna overhealing the tanks it's just ridiculous. And that's still despite Anna's mild nerfs. Symm needs to be nerfed. I know you like your OP main, but deal with it.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

you are maining hog and struggling against symm? LOL

also, in your strongest list you ignore Rein!? Come on man.

Symm struggles against a few characters 1v1. Winston, Roadhog (just wait until she starts her beam on you then hook her. Its super easy. wait are you on console? Maybe its hard there). Pharah, Tracer. She also dominates several characters like Bastion, Torb, Reaper, and is more dangerous when surrounded by her own teammates. Shes a weird character in the grand scheme of things, not OP but her balance is wonky, kind've like Mei.

When did I ever say I was struggling against Symm with Roadhog? I'm flat out saying Symm is broken regardless of who I'm playing. Ignore character matchups for one second and look at the team dynamic. What Symm brings to the table is broken as all fuck.

And Rein is damn good. Not broken on his own without an Anna, Symm etc buffing him.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

You guys are trying too hard. Her shield gen affects everyone on the objective point and her close range util is too ridiculous with her damage, shield, and turrets. lol Torb? Really? Nah, no one plays him. But when you have a Symm with shield generators up and an Anna overhealing the tanks it's just ridiculous. And that's still despite Anna's mild nerfs. Symm needs to be nerfed. I know you like your OP main, but deal with it.

Its not ridiculous though, just blow up the shield gen. Thats what tracer is for. Tracer already counter symmetra as it is

When did I ever say I was struggling against Symm with Roadhog? I'm flat out saying Symm is broken regardless of who I'm playing. Ignore character matchups for one second and look at the team dynamic. What Symm brings to the table is broken as all fuck.

she brings less than rein and ana, about the same as Mei

 

[Phu]

When did I ever say I was struggling against Symm with Roadhog? I'm flat out saying Symm is broken regardless of who I'm playing. Ignore character matchups for one second and look at the team dynamic. What Symm brings to the table is broken as all fuck.

If Symm is broken regardless of who you're playing, that's on you.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

....what?


It absolutely will, especially if you do the flash, fan, roll, fan combo.

If you're complaining about when she has 350 health because she has a sheild generator up and there's a torb there, then you have bigger problems in your situation and you need to have a more mobile character start looking for those tools.



WHY ARE YOU NOT RUSHING THROUGH SYMM SHEILDS AND HOOKING HER IMMEDIATELY?!?!? Symm gains power when you run, which is a problem for people like Zarya who doesn't have guarenteed damage in every encounter, but with most of the cast, roadhog included, the solution to dealing with symm is killing her immediately, not retreating.

Again, nothing I have said has to with the Symm v Roadhog matchup. You guys are still trying way too hard.

 

[darklin0]

Oh hey, I remember this thread.


So how do people feel about the Roadhog hook change? It has made it easier for low elo players to get kills.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

If Symm is broken regardless of who you're playing, that's on you.

You realize team comp is what matters, right? But you can argue about 1 on 1 matchups all day if you want, I won't stop you.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Again, nothing I have said has to with the Symm v Roadhog matchup. You guys are still trying way too hard.

Tracer, Pharah, monkey, roadhog, soldier. Its not hard to counter Symm. Shes good, but you counter pick her in the same way Pharah is good. Put the characters into your party that can deal with her

Oh hey, I remember this thread.


So how do people feel about the Roadhog hook change? It has made it easier for low elo players to get kills.

roadhog is one of the best characters in the game for sure. The hook changes had very little effect on his balance, mainly only in low level play since it made meat shots easier (no more 90 degree turns with extra step forward)

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

Oh hey, I remember this thread.


So how do people feel about the Roadhog hook change? It has made it easier for low elo players to get kills.

Low level players get kills easier. High level players can't do as much ridiculous shit with the hook. Changes seem pretty fair with how poorly things are balanced overall right now.

 

[Mesoian]

When did I ever say I was struggling against Symm with Roadhog? I'm flat out saying Symm is broken regardless of who I'm playing. Ignore character matchups for one second and look at the team dynamic. What Symm brings to the table is broken as all fuck

I mean, not really.

What's the difference between Symm's left click hold and Mei's freeze with right click to the head? Reliability? Her survivability in the close range situation against most of the cast is a losing endeavour 1v1. Even if you're talking about in the heat of a big fight, nothing she does is any more crazy that what Mei can do. If you're locked on, you need to go for the kill, not try to out manuever.

There's a reason why buffed Symm never made it into the meta, her tools don't offer much beyond the 3 tank meta, and in most cases, is hard stopped by it.

Oh hey, I remember this thread.


So how do people feel about the Roadhog hook change? It has made it easier for low elo players to get kills.

I actually like it a lot because it's more consistent. As a Hog, I found in incredibly annoying when I get a hook and it flips out and ends up putting the target behind me. I'd rather have a higher percentage in hook breaks due to environment and have a guaranteed target drop in front of me so I can do the shot melee combo then worry about what's going to happen if I snatch someone out fo the sky who already has a lot of velocity. A lot of people call it a nerf, I personally think it's a buff.

You realize team comp is what matters, right? But you can argue about 1 on 1 matchups all day if you want, I won't stop you.

I mean of course.

So change your comp to deal with her.

 

[Mesoian]

.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

Tracer, Pharah, monkey, roadhog, soldier. Its not hard to counter Symm. Shes good, but you counter pick her in the same way Pharah is good. Put the characters into your party that can deal with her

roadhog is one of the best characters in the game for sure. The hook changes had very little effect on his balance, mainly only in low level play since it made meat shots easier (no more 90 degree turns with extra step forward)

Jesus Christ. Plenty of characters can deal with Symm on their own. What about when she has a shield generator up (that never depletes) on the objective and an Anna overhealing the tanks? It can be huge a chore even trying to get beyond that wall just to take out the generator on a lot of maps. Then throw in her damage and other utilities....

Can we just agree to disagree at this point? I feel like I'm arguing with an inanimate object right now.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

I mean, not really.

What's the difference between Symm's left click hold and Mei's freeze with right click to the head? Reliability? Her survivability in the close range situation against most of the cast is a losing endeavour 1v1. Even if you're talking about in the heat of a big fight, nothing she does is any more crazy that what Mei can do. If you're locked on, you need to go for the kill, not try to out manuever.

There's a reason why buffed Symm never made it into the meta, her tools don't offer much beyond the 3 tank meta, and in most cases, is hard stopped by it.



I actually like it a lot because it's more consistent. As a Hog, I found in incredibly annoying when I get a hook and it flips out and ends up putting the target behind me. I'd rather have a higher percentage in hook breaks due to environment and have a guaranteed target drop in front of me so I can do the shot melee combo then worry about what's going to happen if I snatch someone out fo the sky who already has a lot of velocity. A lot of people call it a nerf, I personally think it's a buff. Mei needing tweaks has absolutely nothing to do with Symm though.



I mean of course.

So change your comp to deal with her.

Mei doesn't have the utility that Symm does. This argument is just getting stupid right now. IMO, Mei could also use some subtle changes if Blizzard even knows what subtle means.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Jesus Christ. Plenty of characters can deal with Symm on their own. What about when she has a shield generator up (that never depletes) on the objective and an Anna overhealing the tanks? It can be huge a chore even trying to get beyond that wall just to take out the generator on a lot of maps. Then throw in her damage and other utilities....

Can we just agree to disagree at this point? I feel like I'm arguing with an inanimate object right now.

I already said tracer to deal with shield gen. And you are freaking out because you are stubborn because for some reason 1 character is giving you an aneurysm when she isnt hard to deal with.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

I already said tracer to deal with shield gen. And you are freaking out because you are stubborn because for some reason 1 character is giving you an aneurysm when she isnt hard to deal with.

lol I won't argue that Tracer isn't about the only counter Symm has for the shield generator. Either way she is eventually going to get nerfed hard regardless of what you think. Enjoy her while you can.

And not just one character. There's plenty of characters that need changing. Are you ready to defend Soldier, or are you going to choose to be semi sane on this one?

 

[Dark Ninja]

lol I won't argue that Tracer isn't about the only counter Symm has for the shield generator. Either way she is eventually going to get nerfed hard regardless of what you think. Enjoy her while you can.

I agree with you Symmetra is way too strong at the moment and she's gonna get nerfed eventually. They probably didn't do it this time around just because they just did her gameplay switch. She's the current Genji/Mei, she'll get whats coming too her either by a direct nerf or another character becoming a really hard counter to her.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

lol I won't argue that Tracer isn't about the only counter Symm has for the shield generator. Either way she is eventually going to get nerfed hard regardless of what you think. Enjoy her while you can.

And not just one character. There's plenty of characters that need changing. Are you ready to defend Soldier, or are you going to choose to be semi sane on this one?

I dont play symm, shes not that useful for most competitive games

No, soldier has far too fast of an ult charge. Him and roadhog need nerfs the most. Possibly Rein, but he feels like any nerf at all will take him from top tier to bottom. DVa and Mercy desperately need buffs, mercy needs a rework of some kind.

 

[Phu]

You realize team comp is what matters, right? But you can argue about 1 on 1 matchups all day if you want, I won't stop you.

Then I don't know what your problem is. Adjust your team comp to deal with theirs.

 

[Zakalwe]

I dont play her because I am. I just laugh when shes on the other team, like I used to do for Torbjorn or Hanzo


just hide behind a wall...

Well, it seems she's working fine for some of us. I wonder where the problem is...

 

[Xiaoki]

There's a reason why buffed Symm never made it into the meta, her tools don't offer much beyond the 3 tank meta, and in most cases, is hard stopped by it.

Symmetra never made it into the meta because every single character in the game has ways of dealing with her and her team utility is dependent upon people not looking for the shield gen/teleporter.

Good players know to bait the shield, counter then kill her. Bad players see a Symmetra running at them, panic and die. Which is why you see so many people calling for Symmetra to be nerfed.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

Then I don't know what your problem is. Adjust your team comp to deal with theirs.

Adjusting team comp to deal with broken characters is not the answer. That's how we got to the 3 Tank meta that dominates... Unless what you want OW to be is a shallow shooter with a singular strategy for winning at medium to high levels of play? I don't want that, but to each their own.

 

[DR2K]

Her mini Reinhardt shield

The one that goes in one direction and gets destroyed if it hits a wall or barrier? Oh come on. It's got its utility in a corridor or small space, but that's a situational tool for getting in and you know it.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

Symmetra never made it into the meta because every single character in the game has ways of dealing with her and her team utility is dependent upon people not looking for the shield gen/teleporter.

Good players know to bait the shield, counter then kill her. Bad players see a Symmetra running at them, panic and die. Which is why you see so many people calling for Symmetra to be nerfed.

Yup, I just run at her, stop to take a breather and then die. That's how it goes down.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

The one that goes in one direction and gets destroyed if it hits a wall or barrier? Oh come on. It's got its utility in a corridor or small space, but that's a situational tool for getting in and you know it.

The one she can throw at you, which she can lock onto you through and which gives her time to jump around to make it harder for you to aim. Unless you can oneshot her with a scattershot or something else, she can simply melt you and if she dodges well enough, she gets her shield back. On top of that, I've been seeing a lot of Zarya players give her bubble as well, which makes her even stronger. They gotta lower the dmg or tweak the lock on. That with being able to hold 6 mini sentries now makes her annoying as fuck

 

[DR2K]

Jesus Christ. Plenty of characters can deal with Symm on their own. What about when she has a shield generator up (that never depletes) on the objective and an Anna overhealing the tanks? It can be huge a chore even trying to get beyond that wall just to take out the generator on a lot of maps. Then throw in her damage and other utilities....

Can we just agree to disagree at this point? I feel like I'm arguing with an inanimate object right now.

You get a tracer or a sombra to get in and destroy the shield regenerator. Symmatra is designed to be dangerous at a close space because she has to protect her shield/teleporter. Usually in a closed space with turrets.

If anything Symmatra might be getting buffs on console for her Turrets. No real indication she's getting nerfs, the opposite so far.

 

[pislit]

dota 2 nerfs are best. half of reddit meltsdown and promises to never play again. then plays again and meltsdown.

 

[Sylverstone14]

How Symmetra didn't get nerfed is beyond ridiculous. Kill Her Blizzard.

I'm gonna have to stop you there.

She absolutely needed a lot of buffs because she was the least-played hero, could only be used on a situational basis, and the meta could never accommodate for her style. Now, she's quite formidable and has the necessary upgrades to her arsenal like the shield generator and having 6 turrets at spawn.

Also, I'm glad for a bit less grief when other players constantly give me shit for playing her.

She's the current Genji/Mei, she'll get whats coming too her either by a direct nerf or another character becoming a really hard counter to her.

The current Genji/Mei? Ridiculous. Also, Winston is a hard counter to Sym.

 

[Nimby]

You realize team comp is what matters, right? But you can argue about 1 on 1 matchups all day if you want, I won't stop you.

Symmetra is still close to bottom in terms of overall usefulness. Her kit is only decent at first point defense, and the benefit it provides also comes with massive weaknesses where you might opt to run Zen or Lucio in her place because she either works or just doesn't.

Winston + Genji dive comp just eat Symmetra alive. There's nothing she can do against a good, well-coordinated offense, her whole kit just falls apart. And I have no idea what to tell you if you think she just melts through Roadhog. What you're describing just sounds like a lack of coordination. If Symmetra is just running at you, you have 5 other members of your team to help you though heals, damage, and shields, even though Roadhog should have no trouble dealing with her by himself.

 

[opricnik]

It was a buff for lesser skilled players and a nerf for higher skilled players.

Completely wrong. Buff for all.
His damage is much better now. Hook is just fixed not nerfed. It works as intended but his damage is another league

 

[Drillary Clinton]

The one that goes in one direction and gets destroyed if it hits a wall or barrier? Oh come on. It's got its utility in a corridor or small space, but that's a situational tool for getting in and you know it.

The one that has an insane amount of health and moves at running speed? It's incredible for closing gaps even in big areas. It's not very situational at all, because that is one single situation of many that it works in. Take it from someone who uses Symmetra regularly. I'm not even whining about this as someone who "got pooped on by wittle symmy". I'm saying this as someone who plays her and finds her in need of some slight nerfs. The same way that I'm an ana main and feel the nerfs to biotic grenade and nano booster necessary.

 

[icecold1983]

Lol @ this discussion. Ana needs further nerfs as does genji. After that things can be reassessed.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

Lol @ this discussion. Ana needs further nerfs as does genji. After that things can be reassessed.

Ana doesn't need to get needed any further, Mercy needs to be buffed, possibly retooled completely. What's the problem with Genji now?

 

[Ambient80]

Throw shield, run behind, hold left click down and take down the entire team. Easier if you have mini turrets up and shield generator.

Lol, maybe if your entire team is literally standing there doing nothing.

 

[icecold1983]

Ana doesn't need to get needed any further, Mercy needs to be buffed, possibly retooled completely. What's the problem with Genji now?

ana is still by far the best support. not having her is a loss when all other things are equal. her healing is stupid fast, has limitless range, she can counter other teams healing and her sleep dart is basically a 1 shot kill, not to mention the hitbox on it is about 5x bigger than the actual target youre shooting at. then theres her ult. supercharge someone, give them a healing nade and they are pretty much invincible.

genjis damage, mobility and survivability are way too high. hes not even difficult to use. right click, dash, melee and its insta death to most any non tank character. in fact its nearly impossible to miss with his right click from any reasonable range. it covers almost the entire horizontal width of your screen. god its just horrid game design. his ultimate also needs to be changed so the sword strikes dont recharge your dash. and the strikes need to not have an attack range twice as far as the rendered effect. his reflect needs to block less attacks. he also doesnt have any damage fall off at range which is ridiculous given that he basically fires nuclear missile sized shoryukens. out of those problem areas, they need to tone down his ultimate and pick one of the non ult areas i listed and tone that down too.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

ana is still by far the best support. not having her is a loss when all other things are equal. her healing is stupid fast, has limitless range, she can counter other teams healing and her sleep dart is basically a 1 shot kill, not to mention the hitbox on it is about 5x bigger than the actual target youre shooting at.

genjis damage, mobility and survivability are way too high. hes not even difficult to use. right click, dash, melee and its insta death to most any non tank character. in fact its nearly impossible to miss with his right click from any reasonable range. it covers almost the entire horizontal width of your screen. god its just horrid game design. his ultimate also needs to be changed so the sword strikes dont recharge your dash. his reflect needs to block less attacks. he also doesnt have any damage fall off at range which is ridiculous given that he basically fires nuclear missile sized shoryukens

Ana's dart has to have a generous hit box because of the wind up. And it's not 5x I hope that wasn't intentional hyperbole. The solution is not to nerf Ana. The solution is to buff the other supports.