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RTTP: The Pokemon. All 721 of them, and counting.

Azuran

Banned
How do you bring yourself to like them?

Opinions, man. We can't help what is (and isn't) visually appealing to us.

I don't know about the other ones, but Genesect is a robot bug with a huge cannon on it's back that shoots lasers.

I don't know but that's pretty badass especially for a kid. I'm sure it was released in Gen I instead of Mewtwo, it would have been extremely popular.
 

Macka

Member
Made another one of these, showing all of my favourites from across all gens. 1st column is my all-time faves, second is just below that and so on.

vMeyOzD.png
 

jnWake

Member
Even if Eevee has only represented the Special types, some of the evolutions have been physically oriented (stat wise), so it'd make sense for Eeevee to evolve into the missing types instead of adding a new Eeevee-like Pokemon.
 
Honestly, the anime should have had Ash move on in Gen II and move over to making Gold the main character, with some random gym leaders from Gen II. Red has been the main character of the anime forever at this point, while the games moved on from Red ages ago.

And then every gen after that "reboot" the series to focus on the new generations. May should have outright been the main character of the third gen series.
Don't insult Red like that, they actually did have an anime with Red and he was competent enough to become champ and catch mewtwo, Ash is some worthless scrub who needs to retire.
 

brinstar

Member
Elite Fire types like Steelix, Lopunny and Driftblim.

This is actually what I did like about D/P compared to Platinum, the Gym and E4 rosters having mixed teams. I'm not saying that I liked the dex having such slim offerings cause that was BS, but I was disappointed when they remixed the leaders teams to be all monotype again.
 

GoldStarz

Member
Don't insult Red like that, they actually did have an anime with Red and he was competent enough to become champ and catch mewtwo, Ash is some worthless scrub who needs to retire.

Red randomly through shit at the opponents he encountered, always falling back on his Charizard, and clearly didn't even level him up properly before going after Mewtwo. At least Ash usually has some semblance of a strategy, even if it doesn't actually make sense in the context of the games.

This is actually what I did like about D/P compared to Platinum, the Gym and E4 rosters having mixed teams. I'm not saying that I liked the dex having such slim offerings cause that was BS, but I was disappointed when they remixed the leaders teams to be all monotype again.

When you're a Fire-type specialist and you lack Fire-types, generally there's something off there. All of the Gym Leader specialize in the type they represent, so if they don't have those Pokemon, that's on the game designers. Also, if a Gen and Gym Leader's team is properly built, they should be able to have some counter to their type's common weakness' (ie Elesa's Emolga is immune to ground, which is likely the type you'd catch to prep against an Electric Leader)
 
Red randomly through shit at the opponents he encountered, always falling back on his Charizard, and clearly didn't even level him up properly before going after Mewtwo. At least Ash usually has some semblance of a strategy, even if it doesn't actually make sense in the context of the games.



When you're a Fire-type specialist and you lack Fire-types, generally there's something off there. All of the Gym Leader specialize in the type they represent, so if they don't have those Pokemon, that's on the game designers. Also, if a Gen and Gym Leader's team is properly built, they should be able to have some counter to their type's common weakness' (ie Elesa's Emolga is immune to ground, which is likely the type you'd catch to prep against an Electric Leader)
And who is the one who actually became champ instead of choking all the time? Sorry, Ash ain't got what it takes for that poke life, boy needs to go home and be a family man.
 

brinstar

Member
When you're a Fire-type specialist and you lack Fire-types, generally there's something off there. All of the Gym Leader specialize in the type they represent, so if they don't have those Pokemon, that's on the game designers. Also, if a Gen and Gym Leader's team is properly built, they should be able to have some counter to their type's common weakness' (ie Elesa's Emolga is immune to ground, which is likely the type you'd catch to prep against an Electric Leader)

I get what you're saying and I don't even necessarily disagree, but for me the last few D/P leaders and E4 were more interesting to fight because of that design failure.

so.... yeah
 

Nightbird

Member
And who is the one who actually became champ instead of choking all the time? Sorry, Ash ain't got what it takes for that poke life, boy needs to go home and be a family man.

Ash managed to defeat a Darkrai AND a Latios in the same Battle without a Mega-evolved Pokémon. Tell me how that Scrub Red is gonna do that?

:p
 

PK Gaming

Member
Ash managed to defeat a Darkrai AND a Latios in the same Battle without a Mega-evolved Pokémon. Tell me how that Scrub Red is gonna do that?

:p

He used a Sleep Talk Heracross, which is one of the few Pokemon that destroys Darkrai by design, and still lost with it.

im still salty about that battle, lol
 

GoldStarz

Member
And who is the one who actually became champ instead of choking all the time? Sorry, Ash ain't got what it takes for that poke life, boy needs to go home and be a family man.
Last time I checked, all you had to do in the games/Origins, all you had to do was fight the E4 rather than fight an onslaught of trainers of varying quality who might have such asspull teams, and THEN fight the Elite 4 before even having a shot at becoming Champion.
Red would have actually won.
He could barely handle Mewtwo, you're saying he could handle a team with a combined total of at least 1200 BST? You're really overvaluing Mewtwo's power there.

I get what you're saying and I don't even necessarily disagree, but for me the last few D/P leaders and E4 were more interesting to fight because of that design failure.

so.... yeah

That's fair, I do think they need to ensure that a Gym Leader at least has Pokemon with good Secondary types to make fights interesting.
 
Last time I checked, all you had to do in the games/Origins, all you had to do was fight the E4 rather than fight an onslaught of trainers of varying quality who might have such asspull teams, and THEN fight the Elite 4 before even having a shot at becoming Champion.

He could barely handle Mewtwo, you're saying he could handle a team with a combined total of at least 1200 BST? You're really overvaluing Mewtwo's power there.



That's fair, I do think they need to ensure that a Gym Leader at least has Pokemon with good Secondary types to make fights interesting.
Stats dont even exist in the anime and it doesn't matter, Red always wins, Ash always chokes, the universe remains in balance. The Ash who beat two legendary Pokémon is the same Ash who got swept by some dumbass with a newly evolved Lucario.

The E4 have been consistently portrayed as far far above everyone else in the anime, Ash and everyone else has gotten blown the fuck out when they tried to face them.
Ash can't even get through the league to get the chance to face the E4 who are all far stronger than anyone he's ever faced in the league.

But who was the man who actually became the champ? The facts are the facts friend.
 

Macka

Member
Is there an easy place to assemble a list like this?
Not really, no. :/ I made the grid myself, and am using 'Pokemon XY minisprites' that were ripped from the game that I'm sure if I can link to here, but are easily found through Google.

Here's the grid. http://i.imgur.com/2zYDyrO.png

You'll still have to find a way to put the minisprites onto it though, and Paint won't work for that. I use a free program called Gimp, which is similar to PhotoShop.
 

GoldStarz

Member
Stats dont even exist in the anime and it doesn't matter, Red always wins, Ash always chokes, the universe remains in balance. The Ash who beat two legendary Pokémon is the same Ash who got swept by some dumbass with a newly evolved Lucario.

The E4 have been consistently portrayed as far far above everyone else in the anime, Ash and everyone else has gotten blown the fuck out when they tried to face them.
Ash can't even get through the league to get the chance to face the E4 who are all far stronger than anyone he's ever faced in the league.

But who was the man who actually became the champ? The facts are the facts friend.

so tl;dr Red is a better trainer because the narrative gives him an easy win? That... doesn't make much sense. Red is a consistently bad trainer and only gets by because he brute forces it, Ash has strategy but has to ultimately fail for the show to go on, even if he loses more often, he's still (usually) the better trainer here.
 

Ezalc

Member
so tl;dr Red is a better trainer because the narrative gives him an easy win? That... doesn't make much sense. Red is a consistently bad trainer and only gets by because he brute forces it, Ash has strategy but has to ultimately fail for the show to go on, even if he loses more often, he's still (usually) the better trainer here.

If this was Sinnoh Ash I could believe it. Watching him in Unova, there's no way that's the case. Bullshit that he lost to that kid with legendaries and bullshit that the lucario kid wasn't automatically disqualified for having too few pokemon, even worse that Ash lost to a kid without a full fucking party goddamn. Shit is embarrassing.
 

Nightbird

Member
If this was Sinnoh Ash I could believe it. Watching him in Unova, there's no way that's the case. Bullshit that he lost to that kid with legendaries and bullshit that the lucario kid wasn't automatically disqualified for having too few pokemon, even worse that Ash lost to a kid without a full fucking party goddamn. Shit is embarrassing.

He's back to his Sinnoh self in XY(Z) now. He's eventually even above that now
 

Azuran

Banned
If this was Sinnoh Ash I could believe it. Watching him in Unova, there's no way that's the case. Bullshit that he lost to that kid with legendaries and bullshit that the lucario kid wasn't automatically disqualified for having too few pokemon, even worse that Ash lost to a kid without a full fucking party goddamn. Shit is embarrassing.

As far as I'm concerned, Unova Ash never happened. All I know is that XY Ash is trying to redeem himself after the Tobias travesty.
 

Grexeno

Member
Expecting Ash to ever win a League Championship is just a waste of time. He cannot ever be allowed to succeed because the series has to continue indefinitely.
 

Macka

Member
Expecting Ash to ever win a League Championship is just a waste of time. He cannot ever be allowed to succeed because the series has to continue indefinitely.
I have only started watching the anime again recently (S17), after dropping it sometime during the Johto series, so I don't know if anything similar to this has happened, but judging from the comments in this thread I guess not. Why can't he beat the Elite Four but lose to the Champion? Or hell, what about beating the Champion would preclude him from continuing to travel to new regions? Winning a league doesn't need to be the end of his journey.
 

Ezalc

Member
Expecting Ash to ever win a League Championship is just a waste of time. He cannot ever be allowed to succeed because the series has to continue indefinitely.

This makes no sense. If you take Ash's goal to "be the very best" this means that anytime there's a new region, he'd have to go and conquer that too. Not to mention he still needs to beat the elite 4 to even be considered the best trainer in that particular region.
 

Grexeno

Member
I have only started watching the anime again recently (S17), after dropping it sometime during the Johto series, so I don't know if anything similar to this has happened, but judging from the comments in this thread I guess not. Why can't he beat the Elite Four but lose to the Champion? Or hell, what about beating the Champion would preclude him from continuing to travel to new regions? Winning a league doesn't need to be the end of his journey.
The anime doesn't have him facing the Elite Four and Champion. The Pokemon League is a tournament in the anime.
 

Ezalc

Member
The anime doesn't have him facing the Elite Four and Champion. The Pokemon League is a tournament in the anime.

In the anime you face the elite four after winning the pokemon league. But we never see it because when Ash was going to win, they got some kid with a team (probably) full of legendaries to stop him.

Also, see beef's post above.
 

Macka

Member
The anime doesn't have him facing the Elite Four and Champion. The Pokemon League is a tournament in the anime.
I assumed that would come after the tournament part? I've seen Diantha in an episode already as the Champion, and Steven in the Mega Evolution Special...
 

Daemul

Member
Nah, the only reason why Ash won't ever get anywhere near becoming Champion is because he wouldn't have any need to challenge gyms anymore, and they need him to do that since the anime is essentially one big ad for the games, and the gyms are a massive part of the games, but you can't have a Champion challenging the gyms like he's some noob.

If Ash ever becomes Champion it will be when the writers plan to replace him with a new nooby protagonist, even then that's unlikely because Pikachu.

so the orange league never happened

ok

Orange Islands lol, not even the writers remember that happened, it was such a throw away arc.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Generation VI Eeveelution

Generation VI was unique when it came to Eeveelutions, only introducing one new member to the line, the new Fairy-type Sylveon, who also happened to be the only traditional Cross-Generation Evolution introduced---depending on who you ask, this is a good thing, or a bad thing. Me? I like Cross-Generation Evolutions, yet at the same time my favorite Generations are the odd ones which are allowed to have their own unique Pokemon and aren't too dependent on previous Generations, and tend to have a far higher number of original Pokemon---of course, Generation VI ultimately did not deliver on this due to the Mega Evolutions serving the same purpose as Cross-Generation Evolutions, and not being as cool which I think most folks will agree with me on that point, so, yeah, Sylveon being the only one introduced in such a small Region was ultimately a major let-down. But that's not exactly Sylveon's fault, so I won't hold her responsible for it. And to be honest, if we get a steady release of New Pokemon each Generation, around 70~ new faces plus a few Mega Evolutions honestly that isn't too bad the more I think about it. The major problems though are balancing the Types, which Game Freak really fucked up with (one Bug-line, two Ground-type Pokemon) and making sure the few Pokemon are put to good use and aren't just the same-old-same-old, which I think Game Freak did alright with such as mixing up the Regional Bird and Regional Rodent. So, I was disappointed at first, but I've warmed up to how they did Generation VI somewhat.

Sylveon was one of the first Pokemon revealed for XY, after the Starters and the Legendaries, and thus played a major part in the Generation VI Hype Cycle. Everyone figured Eevee would likely be getting a new Eeveelution, due to a sudden increase in focus on Eevee in various merchandise, such as the character of Virgil appearing in the show in a major role who owned all the currently known Eeveelutions except for one non-evolved Eevee, as well as the Pikachu Short airing alongside the Genesect Movie known as "Pikachu and Eevee Friends", and the logo for the short having each katakana character representing a certain Eeveelution except for a strange, butterfly-looking symbol. And then Sylveon was revealed, and everyone went silent---what Type was it supposed to represent? I'm not big into the Eeveelutions, but I'm not gonna lie, the uncertain months where we had no clue what exactly Sylveon was filled me with so much excitement I could barely contain myself. And oh, did it become such a controversy among fans! The main two groups at first were the Flying supporters, pointing to the streamers and winged-imagery associated with Sylveon as their primary point of evidence, and the Bug supporters, pointing out that Sylveon's original name, Nymphia, could stem from insect nymphs and also pointing out the butterfly bow-tie that was key to its image as well as its bug-like eyes. I was "Team Flying", feeling that as the first Physical Eeveelution, they'd get a bit more creative than simply slapping wings on it.

Of course, around this time, there was also rumors of a new Type being introduced, which was further pushed due to the webmaster of Pokexperto, Hiro, who leaked Generation V claiming that there was a new Type known as "Fairy", and Sylveon was our Fairy-type Eeveelution. Like all "leaks", this of course lead to comparisons with America's greatest political scandal, Benghazi, and from then on out all discussion involving Sylveon became known as "Fairyghazi". Nah, who am I kidding, they called it "Fairygate" because everyone in the English speaking world is obsessed with adding "-gate" to any minor controversy nowadays. Anyway, I was hesitant to believe Hiro, but liked the idea of a "Fairy-type", especially being set aside for the various odder Normal Pokemon who never really fit the "normal" categorization, and while I remained Team Flying, I was willing to consider the idea. In some circles, though, mentioning the Fairy-type would result in you getting absolutely shut-down by fans who seemed to almost go crazy at the possibility of such a Type being real. There was almost sort of a weird sexism behind it, I imagine mainly male Pokemon fans were bothered deeply by a Type normally associated with "girly things" existing, while others argued that "fairy" had a wide range of meanings, and thus not all Fairy-type Pokemon would be cute and bright pink. Well, as we all know now, Hiro was right, Sylveon was a Fairy Pokemon, and the detractors were also somewhat right, as the majority of Fairy-type Pokemon were pretty limited in their designs and followed the more modern, "sanitized" view of fairies. But it's only been one Generation, and I imagine Game Freak will branch out with them a bit more in the future.

But anyway, let's talk about Sylveon!

492P7ML.png

#700 - Sylveon
Fairy

Sylveon evolves from Eevee by getting two hearts in "Affection" from Pokemon-Amie, as well as knowing a Fairy-type move and leveling up, which is rather easy to do as Pokemon-Amie is placed front-and-center, and Eevee, who is found relatively early in XY at Level 21, learns Charm at Level 29. So, basically XY pretty much wants you to get a Sylveon if you plan on using Eevee by making it very convenient to the player, although it begs the question what will the evolution method be in future games if Pokemon-Amie does not return? At the very least, Game Freak didn't mess up in ORAS making Sylveon unavailable like the other post-Gen I Eeveelutions in the previous remakes, which is good. Furthermore, if you think about it, how are "Affection" and "Happiness" different methods considering they're synonyms? I still think Game Freak should've just made Pokemon-Amie directly affect Happiness instead of new stats, and added some new elements to Happiness like what Pokemon-Amie did like boosted EXP and occasionally avoiding moves during the single-player campaign, but that's a topic for another time. Anyway, with Eevee now learning a Fairy-type move naturally in Baby-Doll Eyes, the first time he's learned a specific Type of move upon its introduction rather than being re-Typed later, like Sand Attack, Bite, and Charm, I sometimes feel like Sylveon is meant to be perhaps the natural Eeveelution somewhat, or slightly more important than the others, at least for XY. Maybe in Generation VI it'll be different, and she'll be harder to obtain than Espeon and Umbreon who previously filled that role.

Like many Fairy-type Pokemon, Sylveon focuses on the Special stats and is actually very powerful---I recently battled the Gym Leader's Sylveon in XY during a Nuzlocke, and she literally kept me on my toes the entire fight as I had to basically just spam potions till she exhausted the PP of Dazzling Gleam because she knocked all my Pokemon down to like 5 HP with one attack. I'm pretty sure she's currently the toughest Eeveelution there is in the competitive circuit, although much of that is probably due to many folks still being unsure of how to handle Fairy-type Pokemon (I can never remember their Type Matchups!), and I imagine in future games where Game Freak perhaps balances them out a bit and they become more comfortable among the general populace, she might she a decline in use, but for now Sylveon literally bullies me every time I face her and makes me cry. I'm kind of glad Sylveon has a bit more presence than Leafeon and Glaceon though in her debut game, whereas for those two sometimes it felt like Game Freak forgot about them. I don't recall any major character using them in any Generation IV game, for instance, and they were easily the toughest Eeveelutions to get in Generation IV. So it's nice Sylveon was given a bit more push and not left to fend for itself.

I think everyone likes the Eeveelutions in general. I'm not a fan of them because I think they're overall pretty boring, but in no way do I think they're anywhere near bad designs, in fact maybe being "bad designs" might've made them more appealing to me, and most people seem to give them a pass overall for being related to a classic Pokemon like Eevee. Except Sylveon, the most controversial Eeveelution ever. This is the first Eeveelution I've seen straight up hate for, and its reception is very mixed---and I wouldn't be surprised if your opinion on Sylveon has a lot to do with how you feel about Generation VI's new additions (Fairy and Megas) in general rather than on its design alone. I still don't know how I feel about the design, as I do like how they made it a bit more elaborate and interesting than the last couple Eeveelution, hearkening back to Vaporeon who had a pretty creative and advanced design over Eevee, but I kind of really don't like it on its own when I'm not comparing it to Leafeon and Glaceon, and out of all the Generation VI Pokemon it's one I have no interest in ever using. A lot of people seem to be particularly bothered by the weird eyes (I've never really cared for the Eeveelutions as I'm not a fan of their rather "plain" eyes) and the streamers, but I don't think they're immediately objectionable.

Sylveon's new and has only been in two sets of games, so there hasn't been a lot of time for Game Freak to develop its lore. I remember Ruby and Sapphire had these really nice, multi-sentence PokeDex entries that did a good job at fleshing out the new Pokemon, but for some reason the following games have skimped back down to being a small sentence which really bugs me. Personally, I'd love if the PokeDex entries expanded and got really elaborate and more interesting, listing stuff once more like habitat, diet, etc. and a more lengthy summary of the species, but I guess with 700+ Pokemon that might not be viable. But hey, Game Freak, I'm doing just that right here for free! Anyway, Sylveon's "charm point" are its ribbon feelers, which it uses to calm fights, as well as wrapping them around its Trainers arm and walking with them like their girlfriend or something. I don't really know what Eevee "adapted" to here, with the other Eeveelutions it was pretty cut-and-dry, but I guess perhaps Eevee literally bonded with its Trainer to the point it became an extension of them both figuratively and sometimes literally? None of Sylveon's moves seem to be notably its "Signature Move", but most of the Fairy-type moves it learns are currently distributed to a small amount of Pokemon, so take your pick...Misty Terrain seems to fit the bill the best, though, as its ability to keep all the Pokemon on the field safe from negative status effects could be seen as representing how Sylveon calms fights. Also its Hidden Ability, Pixilate, is a pretty fitting "Signature Ability" that only two other Pokemon have, and it's the only non-Mega with it as well.

Sylveon's already had a pretty impressive anime showing, debuting in the Mini-Movie "Pikachu and Eevee Friends", as well as getting a filler dedicated to it early on in XY and being used in a Gym Battle by Valerie, although unlike in the games, it wasn't her final Pokemon that Ash faced off against. And Serena's Eevee which she just obtained will probably evolve into Sylveon---in fact, I recently saw merchandise that showed Serena and Sylveon side by side, so it seems like it's a given now. This will be the first Eeveelution ever on the main cast, as May's Eevee did not evolve till after she left as a main cast member. I really don't want an Eeveelution on the main cast when there's so many other Pokemon I'd rather see every episode, but there's nothing I can do about it I guess.
 

jnWake

Member
Sylveon is weird, I don't dislike the design but it doesn't appeal much to me either.

I wonder why Gamefreak decided to make all fairies pink things related to food (mainly candies even). I'm definitely not an expert but from my time watching TV shows fairy lore seems a lot more elaborate than that. Oh well, I hope they branch out in Gen VII.
 

Macka

Member
I can't say I'm a fan of Sylveon, but to be fair I don't like most of the pink 'cutesy' Pokemon either. I'm just not who the design is targeted at I suppose, and that's fine. Don't know how it's considered cute with those creepy eyes though! :p

Either way, it was a cool way to introduce the Fairy type, but as Birdie mentioned - I do hope they branch out a bit more in the next gen when it comes to their designs. Mawile is just about the only Fairy type I like. Spritzee should have evolved into a Fairy/Poison plague doctor dammit!
 

Razmos

Member
I remember when Fairy types were announced and people were shitting on the type for being "girly" and "pink" and all that rubbish. I mean it turned out to be true unfortunately, but I remember arguing quite a lot that fairies in lore are not all girly and sweet.

I especially want to see a Dullahan pokemon that is either Dark/Fairy or Ghost/Fairy, or maybe a Ground/Fairy Goblin pokemon or something of that nature. There is so much mythology to base Fairy types around I'm quite disappointed by the ones they chose. I especially thought Spritzee would evolve into a Dark/Fairy or Poison/Fairy plague doctor pokemon, but nope.

Hopefully Gen VI just introduced some "contemporary" fairies like people were expecting to get them out of the way, and they are going to start mixing it up going forward.
 

WarAdept

Member
I enjoy Sylveon. Dazzling Gleam is a lovely move to watch in battle (and is AoE to boot).

Too bad Hyper Voice does the same thing except does it on a mass murder scale.

As for the Fairy types themselves, Xerneas and Azumarril recon is good enough for me.
 
I've noticed that Sylveon's face is "flat" (for lack of a better word) compared to the other Eevee evolutions. It kind of stands out too much because of it, but it is still great looking.

I remember when Fairy types were announced and people were shitting on the type for being "girly" and "pink" and all that rubbish. I mean it turned out to be true unfortunately, but I remember arguing quite a lot that fairies in lore are not all girly and sweet.

I especially want to see a Dullahan pokemon that is either Dark/Fairy or Ghost/Fairy, or maybe a Ground/Fairy Goblin pokemon or something of that nature. There is so much mythology to base Fairy types around I'm quite disappointed by the ones they chose. I especially thought Spritzee would evolve into a Dark/Fairy or Poison/Fairy plague doctor pokemon, but nope.

Hopefully Gen VI just introduced some "contemporary" fairies like people were expecting to get them out of the way, and they are going to start mixing it up going forward.

250px-210Granbull.png

Would you believe me if I told you that Granbull is a pure Fairy type?
 

Firemind

Member
I can't say I'm a fan of Sylveon, but to be fair I don't like most of the pink 'cutesy' Pokemon either. I'm just not who the design is targeted at I suppose, and that's fine. Don't know how it's considered cute with those creepy eyes though! :p

Either way, it was a cool way to introduce the Fairy type, but as Birdie mentioned - I do hope they branch out a bit more in the next gen when it comes to their designs. Mawile is just about the only Fairy type I like. Spritzee should have evolved into a Fairy/Poison plague doctor dammit!
You don't like Clefairy/Clefable? :(
 

ffdgh

Member
Fariy added dazzling gleam to a somewhat wide amount of pokes(Poor dragons) so that a plus. Now if only they did the same for play rough...

He has a high HP stat and superhuman strength. He also has a lot of balls and isn't scared of anything seeing that he loves to jump off high cliffs to rescue Pokemon.

The only thing that can stop ash is being turned into stone /s
 
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