DonMigs85
Member
Umm, both regular and LPDDR4 have a lower voltage and eat less energy than DDR3.
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SemiAccurate: Nintendo NX handheld to use Nvidia Tegra-based Soc
- Thread starter Fourth Storm
- Start date
Schnozberry
Member
On a 128-bit bus you could achieve over 100GB/s with LPDDR4 @ 1600mhz. It's not GDDR5 but it doesn't need to be in order to be competitive.
Let's make a practical example.
Nintendo makes a GCN/Polaris based hw and a Maxwell based one and want them to share the same software (games) so have also made an API that fits both therefore making it higher level. GCN/Polaris has good async compute performance and Maxwell does not, developers at this point can't make async compute heavy tasks because it would destroy the Maxwell performance, you can do the opposite point by using cuda cores optimized code for Maxwell not working well on AMD's architecture.
This not only goes against a well thought product that embraces the "shared high optimized software" philosophy Nintendo seems to have embraced but also goes against the whole idea of why a console exist compared to a pc which is optimization or to use a term that was in a couple of years ago "code to the metal".
It's tough to not get hyped a out this news when you what the Shield handheld offers for sib 200 bucks. Shit I think for the first time that the handheld could really somehow pull off current gen games.
I hope this is true.
I hope this is true.
DonMigs85
Member
And knowing Nintendo it's probably only gonna have a 720p screen at best, further reducing bandwidth demands.
exmachina64
Banned
This is all that needs to be said.
Hero of Legend
Member
So, is SemiAccurate... well... accurate? Can they be believed?
Also, what would this mean for the console if this is for the handheld? Weird as fuck that the handheld would aim to be a powerhouse and not the console, but I guess expectations are so different. The handheld would never be expected to compete with XB1 and PS4.
But also if Nvidia is making the handheld GPU(?), wouldn't that conflict with AMD doing the chip on the console if they want that similar architecture? Or does that not matter?
Also, what would this mean for the console if this is for the handheld? Weird as fuck that the handheld would aim to be a powerhouse and not the console, but I guess expectations are so different. The handheld would never be expected to compete with XB1 and PS4.
But also if Nvidia is making the handheld GPU(?), wouldn't that conflict with AMD doing the chip on the console if they want that similar architecture? Or does that not matter?
AcademicSaucer
Member
What, but if the handheld is tegra, it wouldnt make sense for the home console to be polaris if they are suppossed to be a family of devices.
Schnozberry
Member
720p is plenty good enough if they get the right screen. Has to be under 5-inches diagonally ideally.
DonMigs85
Member
If the console uses an x86 CPU after all, that would definitely complicate things. It would be laughable if the games ran in Java virtual machines like Android or something.
Schnozberry
Member
Home console would also be Nvidia would be my guess, perhaps with a performance target that is a multiple of the handheld (double, triple maybe?) for scaling purposes.
Practically, you scale up, not down. If the crux of your engine is async compute then you have resigned that it's not going to perform well on any mobile SoC at the moment. This is a performance thing, not a vendor thing. Usually you have multiple compile targets in this scenario because the assets and other pieces of code might change based on the target's performance. 3rd parties have been doing this since forever.
I still don't see 720p. Battery usage would go up with how much is needed to render. PS Vita uses a 540p screen and games still look sharp and very clear. Rendering less meant they could put the graphical capabilities elsewhere. Also for the Vita TV, it scales things up from 540p to 1080i smoothly because it scales well to 1080i/p.
I see the same with Nintendo's next handheld but this time in native 540p as the tech for dedicated handhelds has gone down to support it better.
I see the same with Nintendo's next handheld but this time in native 540p as the tech for dedicated handhelds has gone down to support it better.
First two lines make me wana call bullshit right away. This sounds like some console lover fan fiction.. Nividia is doing better than AMD even with them having console deals. Why would there be a "get a console deal or go home"? when that hasn't been going so well for the competition? Im surprised it dosnt say Nividia was "salty".
Just stinks of BS.
Uh, am I missing something? How do you get 100GB/s from 1600mhz * 2 * 128-bit bus? Because by my calculation that would be just 51GB/s. Using the fastest LPDDR4 available now you could get 136GB/s on a 256-bit bus by my calculations (2133mhz * 2 * 256 bit bus).
EDIT: Revised numbers a little.
It was an example -_-
Exactly it's a architecture/performance thing not a vendor one which is why you would understand why making multiple compile targets and making it harder for the developers to optimize their code for hardware that are supposed to behave well to each other is so unfit for what nintendo is trying to do.
DonMigs85
Member
Yeah, Xbox One gets 64GB/s on 2133MHz DDR3, 128-bit bus too
Vyse The Legend
Member
Emily's report said not x86, and Tegra is definitely not x86. So...
DonMigs85
Member
Heck we might get 800x480 going from 400x240 on 3DS
Suddenly the codename "NX" would make more sense. NVidia X1.
But that's just me throwing some funny ideas in there...
Schnozberry
Member
You're correct. I was operating on bad information.
Arkam
Member
Really depends what they mean by a "loss" if they just mean NET Loss it could still be very good for Nvida as a continual revenue source. Yea in they end they will not have made any money. But each quarter they will have revenue to be used to make money when a better investment does present its self.
But who knows (sides people making the deal)
No, Xbox One is 2133Mhz (effective) * 256-bit bus / 8 bits-per-byte = 68GB/s.
DonMigs85
Member
Gasp! This cured meat truly knows its stuff
720p is overkill on battery draw, and starts to waste PPI on a ~5" screen.
GasProblem
Member
Having a powerful Nintendo handheld that has a shared library with It's console brother, meaning all first party titles are playable on the handheld, would be like a dream come true.
The first line itself has already been ridiculed on this forum for the longest time.
This is basically what I've wanted since Vita. To be able to take a non gimped version of the game with me on the go.
Now they just need a Pokemon game that can visually scale up to 1080p so you can also play it on your TV without being stabbed by jaggies.
But let's turn this around. Why wouldn't Nvidia want to be everywhere?
I don't think it is that implausible. Some times executives are extremely competitive and they don't want to just concede future business to AMD forever.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Dark Cloud
Member
I wished these topics got more post. There's some great information and discussion here. It doesn't always have to be doom and gloom that sells.
Yeah... That other thread has just gone off the rails =/
The reality is while Gaf is a game enthusiast website the majority of the posters have almost no tech comprehension. So its easier for them to run around screaming doom.
I mean half the posts in the other thread consists of basically "omg arm. its terrible and Nintendo am doomed." Nevermind the fact ARM CPU can be vastly superior to whats in the PS4/XBO
Why would nVidia not want too take a deal where theres razor thin profit margins so much so that AMD is still bleeding left, right, and center?
AcademicSaucer
Member
I really hope the handheld gets full support from japanese developers . I like jrpgs on a handheld, cant play them on a TV
I also think many forget that they've been playing on ARM since the GBA and third parties have no issue with it. And with more standardized parts and ARM used just about everywhere these days, most if not all engines support ARM. There's little issue with engine support these days so long as the system is capable of supporting it.
For the handheld, I feel like they might try to get mobile UE4 support as Japan is moving more and more towards UE4 and Unity, so it makes sense for them.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
With this the 1280x720 hopes and dreams for the handheld might not be out of reach. Nvidia can deliver.
And the leak is all Nintendo's fault for keeping us all thirsty for a console/handheld that comes out within a year.
And the leak is all Nintendo's fault for keeping us all thirsty for a console/handheld that comes out within a year.
DonMigs85
Member
It's a bit like that Atom deal Intel made with Chinese companies before.
Too bad Atom is dead now though.
Probably not to always concede to AMD, I guess. But it might not even too bad since they're raking in so much that they could likely make the return back in other areas.
Astral Dog
Member
it could even be lower (like the Vita) and still an enourmous jump in IQ from 3DS while freeing more bandwidth/resources for other purposes than Wii U, that sounds cool.
I hope the rumor is true just for the meltdowns. It would be epic.
DonMigs85
Member
Like I mentioned earlier, I won't be surprised if it's just 800x480
Vita can't even manage to run its games at native, anything would be better than that nonsense.
Hero of Legend
Member
960x540, just below the Vita's odd 960x544 resolution (obviously meant to be 4x the PSP's 480x272... why again was it this?) would be very ideal.
720p on a small screen seems silly honestly, and the trade-off of allowing more graphical detail in games and maybe other extra features would be worth it.
I would think the screen will be smaller than the Vita's, and I find the resolution when native to be just fine on that.
Not to mention, even if Nintendo handhelds never see this (to my knowledge), if they went 720p, I have a feeling some will go non-native resolution like a lot of Vita games and honestly that looks much worse than a native lower resolution. 540p by now feels like it'd be a piece of cake for devs to have native resolution games.
And, games built for a prettier 540p handheld than a less pretty 720p handheld, would be a much better start for an NX console port in 1080p.
720p on a small screen seems silly honestly, and the trade-off of allowing more graphical detail in games and maybe other extra features would be worth it.
I would think the screen will be smaller than the Vita's, and I find the resolution when native to be just fine on that.
Not to mention, even if Nintendo handhelds never see this (to my knowledge), if they went 720p, I have a feeling some will go non-native resolution like a lot of Vita games and honestly that looks much worse than a native lower resolution. 540p by now feels like it'd be a piece of cake for devs to have native resolution games.
And, games built for a prettier 540p handheld than a less pretty 720p handheld, would be a much better start for an NX console port in 1080p.
DonMigs85
Member
If it ends up backwards compatible with 3DS, I think 800x480 is really quite likely