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Shit just got real - FBI raiding college campuses arresting multiple coaches

A

Armaros

Member
Squirrel Killer said:
Yes, but that's when they're still in high school, I think most of the "child labor" comments refer to when they're in college.
Click to expand...

The crimes committed start when the students were in highschool...

You think because the crimes took place over a long period of time that it doesn't apply anymore?
 
C

cartographer

Member
Squirrel Killer said:
Yes, but that's when they're still in high school, I think most of the "child labor" comments refer to when they're in college.
Click to expand...

You didn't mention anything about child labor in your original comment, you mentioned child exploitation. This all starts in high school (and earlier in some cases).

Imperfected said:
So you're telling me the issue here is that some of these kids actually got paid?
Click to expand...

So you're telling me you read nothing?
 
T

TraBuch

Banned
falconxcrunner09 said:
Seriously? Never heard that college coaches approach middle schoolers. That's just weird to me.
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Smaller schools feel they need to build relationships as early as possible. They can't compete with the elite if they get involved at the same time, so the only thing they can do is find those players much earlier.
 
A

Armaros

Member
Imperfected said:
So you're telling me the issue here is that some of these kids actually got paid?
Click to expand...

More like coaches were paid to steer students to specific schools for their own financial benefit getting paid by adiidas.

Coaches were paid to scout for students to be used as living advertisement.
 
J

JinjoUnchained

Member
Oh no, don't tell me that college athletes were, gasp, given financial compensation for their labor! Scandal!!!!

Edit: and yes, I read the articles. What's being alleged is a form of compensation.
 
A

Arksy

Member
It might be the fact that I'm pretty delirious right now, and it's like 2am...but I don't get what the actual issue is. I thought sponsorship requiring people to wear their stuff was you know, rather common?
 
Mick Swagger

Mick Swagger

Member
The Albatross said:
Would you consider child labor a victimless crime? Like, if I owned a mining company and paid your aunt so that you'd work in my mine, and then be indentured to work in my friend's mine, and then when you turn 22 you have the opportunity to be paid to work in my mine...... Is this victimless?

Or, are they not victims because they're merely being used by corporations and government to entertain us with their athletic talent? Or, should the FBI not investigate because "Everybody knows there's corruption in college sports!" Isn't that more of a reason to investigate if everybody knows it's corrupt? This is not even considering other colleges, universities, and students who are not the recipients of bribery and extortion and how that affects their education.

Beyond the child exploitation angle is the additional angle that government employees are being investigated for bribery, conspiracy, and wire fraud. These are federal and state funded institutions that receive huge portions of tax dollars and often report to state boards that report to state governors. Should the FBI not investigate government fraud and organized crime...? Like, what should the FBI investigate if not organized crime in government? The FBI investigating organized crime is, like, one of its chief responsibilities, it's the only government agency that can do that.
Click to expand...

I mean if we’re running with this angle as “child exploitation” wouldn’t Adidas, Nike, etc. paying them be better than the college / university pocketing all of the sports revenue and NOT compensating them? Most collegiate athletes spend their entire university career training and playing for no compensation at all.

The journey is the same, the only thing changing is the players are actually receiving monetary compensation at the end of the day rather than solely the school, NCAA, etc.
 
Mohonky

Mohonky

Member
Someone needs to explain this to us non-Americans, because all this sounds like is 'sponsorship' through unofficial channels, so I'm assuming there is more to this beyond college athletes aren't supposed to be officially endorsed or something.
 
C

cartographer

Member
JinjoUnchained said:
Oh no, don't tell me that college athletes were, gasp, given financial compensation for their labor! Scandal!!!!

Edit: and yes, I read the articles. What's being alleged is a form of compensation.
Click to expand...

What's being alleged is employees of federally funded institutions receiving kickbacks, among other things. Hint: these aren't the players.

Mohonky said:
Someone needs to explain this to us non-Americans, because all this sounds like is 'sponsorship' through unofficial channels, so I'm assuming there is more to this beyond college athletes aren't supposed to be officially endorsed or something.
Click to expand...

See above.
 
Squirrel Killer

Squirrel Killer

Member
Armaros said:
The crimes committed start when the students were in highschool...

You think because the crimes took place over a long period of time that it doesn't apply anymore?
Click to expand...
I was trying to explain why I thought someone else was not seeing this as "child exploitation/labor"

Obviously, I thing that if a crime takes place over a long period of time, it's still a crime, but thanks for assuming the worst.

cartographer said:
You didn't mention anything about child labor in your original comment, you mentioned child exploitation. This all starts in high school (and earlier in some cases).
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Absolutely. What little I know of the AAU scene disgusts me.

As I said, I was just trying to thing of why highrider was taking exception to the "child exploitation/labor" claims.
 
Mohonky

Mohonky

Member
cartographer said:
What's being alleged is employees of federally funded institutions receiving kickbacks, among other things. Hint: these aren't the players.
Click to expand...

Again not seeing what's happening.

Coaches and staff / College receiving money by making their athletes wear a brand that is providing them money under the table?
 
M

Mesoian

Member
Imperfected said:
If the coaches "manipulated" students the "normal" way, by talking to their parents and telling them all about the benefits of their school and scholarship program, would this have been an issue?
Click to expand...

No.

But that's also not racketeering.

Mohonky said:
Again not seeing what's happening.

Coaches and staff / College receiving money by making their athletes wear a brand that is providing them money under the table?
Click to expand...

In a system where players/staff aren't supposed to be allowed to make money from selling or redistribution of NCAA branded apparel, yes.

Remember Jim Tressel? It's this times...I guess 120 if these tweets are to be believed.
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
Arksy said:
It might be the fact that I'm pretty delirious right now, and it's like 2am...but I don't get what the actual issue is. I thought sponsorship requiring people to wear their stuff was you know, rather common?
Click to expand...
Don't look at the players, look at the coaches who seems took bribes in order to convince players to go to particular schools or sign certain sponsorships. It's collusion between companies and coaches and the kids were possibly unsuspecting pawns.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
Mick Swagger said:
I mean if we're running with this angle as ”child exploitation" wouldn't Adidas, Nike, etc. paying them be better than the college / university pocketing all of the sports revenue and NOT compensating them? Most collegiate athletes spend their entire university career training and playing for no compensation at all.

The journey is the same, the only thing changing is the players are actually receiving monetary compensation at the end of the day rather than solely the school, NCAA, etc.
Click to expand...

I doubt the students are receiving monetary compensation while they're in high school. Organized crime rings are not stupid. If you give a 16 year old thousands of dollars, he's going to go out and buy something expensive and then brag to his friends about it, and it's going to quickly get out.

It's likely an unsigned verbal agreement to an agent/fixer who pressures/convinces the students' family or mentor, who steers the child to that college, and then to that corporation, while the corporation and the college receive the money. The colleges and corporations are experts at this and they're not involving the fixer or the agent in any negotiations with a child... It's all about promising opportunity to poor children to entertain, but at the other end of that conspiracy is a government employee making $1.1m, getting a kickback from Adidas, and the brand manager for a billion dollar company. The poor kid is a pawn, as always, with millionaires using his life to fatten their wallet... It just so happens that this particular brand of exploitation also has RICO charges attached to it. This isn't just about the 14-year-old prodigy who goes to a major program, leaves after 1 year, and then gets a major marketing deal for Adidas to sell sneaker... It's just as much about the 14-year-old prodigy who gives up school to focus exclusively on basketball, who drops out of the major program, and who then has to work at Footlocker for $9/hr selling sneakers with no future.

Fraud, bribery, pay-to-play conspiracies rarely involve the actual talent on an individual level, especially with compensation. The Chicago Black Sox are the most notorious bribery story in sports, but the people who made out the best weren't the poor athletes, it was the mob and gambling syndicate.

It's not only a child exploitation scandal either, assuming charges come to fruition after the investigation. It's going to primarily be adjudicated through fraud, bribery, and conspiracy, and this is all involving some of the highest paid government employees in the country, and tax exempt institutions that receive millions in state and federal funding (or are actually government institutions). The laisse faire, "it's just college sports, who cares, we already know it's corrupt!" attitude of many others is nonsense, these are people who the taxpayer has hired, committing fraud, conspiracy, and bribery using children in scandals involving multi-billion dollar multi-national conglomerates.
 
T

TraBuch

Banned
Kusagari said:
I know Zona is implicated in this, but Wikipedia's list says Zona State is an Adidas school.
Click to expand...
People keep talking about Addidas schools, but all the schools implicated aren't Addidas schools. There are Nike schools and I think one Under Armour school, as well.
 
C

cartographer

Member
Imperfected said:
If the coaches "manipulated" students the "normal" way, by talking to their parents and telling them all about the benefits of their school and scholarship program, would this have been an issue?
Click to expand...

You read even less than I initially thought, huh?

Mohonky said:
Again not seeing what's happening.

Coaches and staff / College receiving money by making their athletes wear a brand that is providing them money under the table?
Click to expand...

There's many counts, among them coaches using their position to steer players to specific agencies / financial advisers in exchange for kickbacks.
 
B

BajiBoxer

Banned
Arksy said:
It might be the fact that I'm pretty delirious right now, and it's like 2am...but I don't get what the actual issue is. I thought sponsorship requiring people to wear their stuff was you know, rather common?
Click to expand...
-Basically bribes paid to athletes and families to go to specific Adidas schools.
-Bribes between agents, coaches, etc. to steer players to specific agents and financial advisors when ready to go pro.
-And the coverup of all this, of course.

Edit: Apparently not just Adidas schools acording to the post above.
 
F

Faddy

Banned
Imperfected said:
If the coaches "manipulated" students the "normal" way, by talking to their parents and telling them all about the benefits of their school and scholarship program, would this have been an issue?
Click to expand...

It seems like Adidas paid high level program coaches to take on players who attended their camps or played on AAU teams they sponsor.
 
F

Frozenprince

Banned
The Albatross said:
I doubt the students are receiving monetary compensation while they're in high school. Organized crime rings are not stupid. If you give a 16 year old thousands of dollars, he's going to go out and buy something expensive and then brag to his friends about it, and it's going to quickly get out.

It's likely an unsigned verbal agreement to an agent/fixer who pressures/convinces the students' family or mentor, who steers the child to that college, and then to that corporation, while the corporation and the college receive the money. The colleges and corporations are experts at this and they're not involving the fixer or the agent in any negotiations with a child... It's all about promising opportunity to poor children to entertain, but at the other end of that conspiracy is a government employee making $1.1m, getting a kickback from Adidas, and the brand manager for a billion dollar company. The poor kid is a pawn, as always, with millionaires using his life to fatten their wallet... It just so happens that this particular brand of exploitation also has RICO charges attached to it. This isn't just about the 14-year-old prodigy who goes to a major program, leaves after 1 year, and then gets a major marketing deal for Adidas to sell sneaker... It's just as much about the 14-year-old prodigy who gives up school to focus exclusively on basketball, who drops out of the major program, and who then has to work at Footlocker for $9/hr selling sneakers with no future.

Fraud, bribery, pay-to-play conspiracies rarely involve the actual talent on an individual level, especially with compensation. The Chicago Black Sox are the most notorious bribery story in sports, but the people who made out the best weren't the poor athletes, it was the mob and gambling syndicate.

It's not only a child exploitation scandal either, assuming charges come to fruition after the investigation. It's going to primarily be adjudicated through fraud, bribery, and conspiracy, and this is all involving some of the highest paid government employees in the country, and tax exempt institutions that receive millions in state and federal funding (or are actually government institutions). The laisse faire, "it's just college sports, who cares, we already know it's corrupt!" attitude of many others is nonsense, these are people who the taxpayer has hired, committing fraud, conspiracy, and bribery using children in scandals involving multi-billion dollar multi-national conglomerates.
Click to expand...

Find and replace "coachs" and "agents" with "mobsters" and I doubt people would have nay problem.

This may not be the Italian Mob hustling college sports again like they did in the 70's, but it's as damn close as you can get. This is the definition of a RICO violation not "college players getting paid" lol. If it was just people paying players the FBI wouldn't be involved, that's an NCAA matter.
 
Mick Swagger

Mick Swagger

Member
The Albatross said:
I doubt the students are receiving monetary compensation while they're in high school. Organized crime rings are not stupid. If you give a 16 year old thousands of dollars, he's going to go out and buy something expensive and then brag to his friends about it, and it's going to quickly get out.

It's likely an unsigned verbal agreement to an agent/fixer who pressures/convinces the students' family or mentor, who steers the child to that college, and then to that corporation, while the corporation and the college receive the money. The colleges and corporations are experts at this and they're not involving the fixer or the agent in any negotiations with a child... It's all about promising opportunity to poor children to entertain, but at the other end of that conspiracy is a government employee making $1.1m, getting a kickback from Adidas, and the brand manager for a billion dollar company. The poor kid is a pawn, as always, with millionaires using his life to fatten their wallet... It just so happens that this particular brand of exploitation also has RICO charges attached to it. This isn't just about the 14-year-old prodigy who goes to a major program, leaves after 1 year, and then gets a major marketing deal for Adidas to sell sneaker... It's just as much about the 14-year-old prodigy who gives up school to focus exclusively on basketball, who drops out of the major program, and who then has to work at Footlocker for $9/hr selling sneakers with no future.

Fraud, bribery, pay-to-play conspiracies rarely involve the actual talent on an individual level, especially with compensation. The Chicago Black Sox are the most notorious bribery story in sports, but the people who made out the best weren't the poor athletes, it was the mob and gambling syndicate.

It's not only a child exploitation scandal either, assuming charges come to fruition after the investigation. It's going to primarily be adjudicated through fraud, bribery, and conspiracy, and this is all involving some of the highest paid government employees in the country, and tax exempt institutions that receive millions in state and federal funding (or are actually government institutions). The laisse faire, "it's just college sports, who cares, we already know it's corrupt!" attitude of many others is nonsense, these are people who the taxpayer has hired, committing fraud, conspiracy, and bribery using children in scandals involving multi-billion dollar multi-national conglomerates.
Click to expand...

Oh I completely agree recruiting is wildly out of control. My comments pertained more towards any grievances with recruiting an adult player and compensating them. While against all sorts of rules, those rules only exist to keep money out of the players pockets and in the schools athletic department.

Systemically college sports exploit every single member of the establishment. Lobbyists will stop the Feds from kicking in the doors to the NCAA, though.
 
B

Bellamin

Member
Some gaffers sounding like Penn State football fans in this thread. As long as it's a sport you like, those involved can do no wrong.
 
Mick Swagger

Mick Swagger

Member
cwmartin said:
Do you actually think this is true?
Click to expand...

Should I rephrase that and thrown in an “openly compensated”? My point is, the NCAA makes crazy money off of talent and they are not openly compensated as they should be. Some athletes will obviously try to work outside the confines of a system setup to defeat opportunity.
 
L

lush

Member
I just want to see the fall of Calipari and hear all the "World Wide" Wes rumors were true. Is that too much to ask?
 
R

ryseing

Member
BigWeather said:
As a Wolfpack alum, basketball, shoes, and corruption make me anxious. Please not again...
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We're good friend. Although if this leads to us going Nike I would be very happy.

Random Painted HIghway said:
Yeah, can't post them due to privacy concerns, but two are sec, suck at basketball but we're competitive in football for a good stretch until the last two or three years, the other a big 10 that sucks at football and mediocre at basketball (a traditional power though) and an aac school that has been to final fours but not recently. A bad stretch for me, so let's knock the big boys down through sanctions I say!
Click to expand...

Mizzou and Memphis?
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
The players accepting money, that's fine by me. It's their bodies being used to make these schools, conferences, and shoe companies a lot of money, and they deserve some of it.

The coaches being bribed to steer players towards certain agents or apparel companies, that's another issue that of course needs to be dealt with.

College athletics is murky. Sure, they get scholarships, but there are billions of dollars in it, and virtually none of it goes to those who generate that revenue. Cases like this are a byproduct of that system.
 
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