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[Drinky Crow]

hey drinky where were your shoes made?

thought about the children making them?

in no way did the makers of my shoes support proposition 8, i am glad to say.

 

[Varshes]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion on the matter, but that still has nothing to do with this game, so nuh-uh.

 

[V_Arnold]

Really?

So the product is entirely separate from the creators? Really?

Without trying to insert a little South Park reference, Ill try to keep this simple so everyone gets it who did not watch SP : )

Yes. Not entirelly, but there are things which can, which should, which cant, and which sholdnt affect the creator's work.

I can make the meal I cook taste sweet, regardless if others like it or not.
I cannot make a house (which we build with a grop) that collapses when my job is to move some crates containing metals from point A to point B.
I should make up a sci-fi story when i am a storywriter and I am paid to make a story for XY game.
I should not insert any anti-gay references to a story I am writing for a game where I am not specifically asked to by the director or designer, or producer (depending on who handles the overview).

In this case, we have the should and should not as examples, and no harm were done.

 

[Kosma]

This is such a stupid argument. While we're at it, Al Gore isn't allowed to speak at a climate change conference because he will fly there, which wastes energy..

in no way did the makers of my shoes support proposition 8, i am glad to say.

I feel worse for children in 3rd world shitholes making clothes and living with 6 of them in a room with no aircon then for homosexuals not being LIKED by someone.

But thats just me.

 

[Lagunamov]

This can be very hard not to do. Especially when money is involved.

It's not your problem, the problem is for Card and you're doing well when you pay for this great game.

 

[eznark]

in no way did the makers of my shoes support proposition 8, i am glad to say.

I bet they made the tie that Card wore to an anti-gay rally.

 

[Killthee]

More importantly, has Card actually spent any of his money to hamper gay marriage and other issues, or is he just a man with an opinion? If he's not actually fighting it and just an outspoken critic I'd see no reason for a boycott.

He's a board member of the National Organization for Marriage (NOM).

 

[Iknos]

What the fuck is wrong with you people?

So it's ok for people to boycott products if they don't agree with their views...but not ok for people to support products if they agree with their views?

 

[Wizman23]

What the fuck is wrong with you people?

I buy games to have fun and be entertained. You guys keep fighting the good fight and keep charging into battle with your other internet White Knights. The other 98% of the people in this thread will continue to enjoy Shadow Complex for the kick ass GAME that it is.

 

[YuriLowell]

This thread made me want to buy the game more.

 

[Adam Prime]

You should demand in writing from every piece of entertainment you are considering a purchase of, the complete and full voting record and political views of everyone who worked on the game in order to only play ideologically pure products.

After reading this whole thread, this post says it all...

"He's going to use his money to deny gay people their rights".

Well, jeesh, that's not fair because I'm sure there are NO gay supporters who make lots of money from some sort of media (video games, movies, books) and use THEIR money and influence to try and push support for gay rights!

 

[Chris Remo]

Do you have any idea how racist Japan is? It's so bad that even members of the UN have said, "Wow, Japan, that's pretty fucked up." Are you going to boycott Sony or Nintendo?

"Japan" doesn't make games. People make games. If I were to realize that a particular Japanese designer was constantly publishing lengthy pieces of writing vigorously attacking people and choices in a way that I find personally morally offensive, yes maybe I'd stop buying his games.

No, of course not, and for a few reasons. Firstly, it'd be batshit insane to do that, just like boycotting Shadow Complex would be. But secondly, even if you WERE trying to make a statement, it'd utterly fail given that not ALL of Japan is racist, so what's the point of boycotting products from there? Likewise, obviously Shadow Complex was made up of many individuals, some (most?) of which are not homophobic. So what's the point?

You're just deciding the opinions of the Chair team? The principle founders of the company are Mormon, they're buddies with Card, they're located in Provo, Utah. I'm not saying they're all homophobes. I have no idea how many of them are. Are you saying if somebody were to do a study and determine every employee of that studio is a homophobe, then it would be cool to boycott? That's hilarious if so. It's not too difficult to find and read Card's widely-published opinions on things, and he was a direct contributor to this game. That's absolutely reason enough for somebody not to buy it. There are many other people for whom it's no factor at all. That's fine.

See, here's the cool thing about "freedom", and it's something people forget sometimes. People are free to be anti-something to your pro-something. To boycott a game simply because he doesn't believe in what you do goes against the very freedom people are constantly fighting for.

No. It's exercising the very freedom we enjoy. We have the freedom to support or not support with our dollars whoever we wish.

 

[Yeef]

He spent a lot of time and money actively campaigning for Prop 8, donating to the cause, and threatening to overthrow the government (what he insists is "the right of revolution") if gay marriage was upheld in California.

Card gave a huge effort to see that the gay marriage vote went the way it did in California. He sits on a board of a group called the National Organization for Marriage which is basically a group that forms strategies on how to keep marriage for heteros only. He posted this on his blog.

How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn.

Okay, so he's insane and has some influence. In that case I can definitely understand why some people might want to avoid giving him any of their money.

 

[Kyzer]

This is really interesting to learn about the author, actually. Kind of ironic, considering the motif of xenophobia and the rest that he covers in Ender's universe.

 

[Cat in the Hat]

in no way did the makers of my shoes support proposition 8, i am glad to say.

Good for you, good for you

 

[Owzers]

hey drinky where were your shoes made?

thought about the children making them?

This is my general thinking. Pretty much everything you buy has been made on cheap foreign labor/child labor or has gotten some jerk rich.

Now this debate would be ENTIRELY different if Shadow Complex was made soley by OSC and he was using the profits to eliminate the gay population, but that's not the case.

 

[SlasherJPC]

If you boycott this for these very reasons, you might as well boycott everything in your entire life because I'm sure that import car you bought funded China, which somehow funded North Korea. (of course I'm being facetious) Or that game you bought was made in mexico and is somehow funding the drug cartels, I mean really people. If you live your life by principles such as these, you might as well just build a farm out in the middle of nowhere and harvest your own food, clothing, entertainment, or whatever because no matter what you buy, in the end it probably supports something your against.

 

[VASPER]

too late can't boycot now, i think its worth 15 but i understand the boycot.

 

[squicken]

I had no idea the Mormons were the reason Prop 8 passed. I need to read the OT more I guess.

 

[jay]

Good for you, good for you

What the fuck does this mean? The guy cares about Prop 8 and so doesn't want to support OSC.

If you boycott this for these very reasons, you might as well boycott everything in your entire life because I'm sure that import car you bought funded China, which somehow funded North Korea. (of course I'm being facetious) Or that game you bought was made in mexico and is somehow funding the drug cartels, I mean really people. If you live your life by principles such as these, you might as well just build a farm out in the middle of nowhere and harvest your own food, clothing, entertainment, or whatever because no matter what you buy, in the end it probably supports something your against.

So in general because everything is wrong we should stop trying to make anything right.

 

[Version 3.0]

To people like Card, liberals are Nazis.

No, liberals are generally accused of being communists/socialists. Conservatives are the ones who get called Nazis. It's just a matter of exaggerating the respective viewpoints. You shouldn't mix them up.




And though I'd rather not be a part of anything funding right-wing extremism or gay bashing, I find it odd to single out this game when none of us know or care where the money we spend on other games (or other entertainment in general) is going. Hell, since it was a Democrat (Leiberman) who led the big attacks on games that have been through Congress in the past, most notably the one resulted in ESRB ratings, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that videogame companies make donations to his Republican opponents.

In short, if you think you can keep your money from getting into the hands of people with views that are different from yours, you're wrong.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Everyone in this thread saying they want to buy the game even more, because the creator of the world and writer is a homophobe who works to deprive others of human rights, has severe maturity issues.

 

[Jugendstil]

I debated whether or not I should buy it and I ended up doing so because I really wanted to play the game and I was morbidly curious about the extent of his involvement as well. I haven't beaten it yet, but quite honestly I don't see what having his name on it accomplished. The plot and dialog are pretty hokey and there's nothing particularly memorable about that aspect of the game. Is it more like how Tom Clancy's name gets plastered all over games now? Is it merely taking place in a setting Card created?

Regardless, I totally respect others who are boycotting it. I am still questioning my decision to buy it and it has slightly tainted some of my enjoyment of the game. It's a fun and it really could have stood on its own merits in terms of gameplay and presentation. It's unfortunate they chose to associate it with such a vile person.

 

[duckroll]

Okay, so he's insane and has some influence. In that case I can definitely understand why some people might want to avoid giving him any of their money.

I think what is more worrying is not the influence that Card might have on anything, but what sort of company Chair Entertainment might be. Since they're based on Utah, funding them could be indirectly funding what a lot of people here are against.

 

[APF]

While I made fun of people paranoid of being propagandized in the Official Thread, I don't object to a public boycott of this game if your ultimate goal is to have people recognize Card as someone toxic to a project, rather than the creator's intent of his presence giving that project added legitimacy.

 

[soldat7]

It should be noted that Chair Entertainment is based in Provo, Utah.

Which is entirely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

I had no idea the Mormons were the reason Prop 8 passed. I need to read the OT more I guess.

They played a big role yes, but they were not the primary reason.

 

[ascii42]

This is such a stupid argument. While we're at it, Al Gore isn't allowed to speak at a climate change conference because he will fly there, which wastes energy..

I've actually often thought this. But of course only if he flies a personal jet. If he flies on normal airlines with everyone else, the plane was going to be flying anyway.

 

[scitek]

After reading this whole thread, this post says it all...

"He's going to use his money to deny gay people their rights".

Well, jeesh, that's not fair because I'm sure there are NO gay supporters who make lots of money from some sort of media (video games, movies, books) and use THEIR money and influence to try and push support for gay rights!

No, but you see, 99% of GAF sees it as wrong to NOT support gay rights, so that's perfectly fine.

Personally, I didn't even watch any of the cut-scenes in the game, so the story isn't even what I was playing it for. They could have cut Card's involvement with the game completely and it would have still played the same.

 

[Drinky Crow]

when dudes play with other dudes' dickuses, some people flip their shit. that's ok, 'cuz we all got our crazy hot buttons. it's when they take their fame and credibility and channel it into becoming a leader of a hate movement that i decide that a little necessary opposition is required, and not giving a utah-based game company that contracts or employs said leader my money seems to be a total gimme.

 

[Barrett2]

I had no idea the Mormons were the reason Prop 8 passed. I need to read the OT more I guess.

The Mormon Church is hardcore anti gay marriage. They are arguably the reason it passed. There were interesting articles in the NY Times about the Church nudging prominent / wealthy Mormons into donating tons of cash and resources to kill the proposition.

 

[Big-E]

If I knew about this yesterday, I probably would not have bought the game. In this circumstance a boycott is perfectly justified.

 

[FishSquared]

Can't boycott it, I already bought it.

Great game. And something like this, in my humble opinion, is a tad of a stretch for a boycott. It's a political stance, and something that if I give him money, won't help or hurt either political stance.


It's not like I boycott all games made by anybody in the team who was a republican, that's just silly.

It would be one thing if, for example, the game stood for something and buying it meant I was against gay rights, but this is not the case.

Therefore, I do not regret buying this game.

Sorry OP, just MHO.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

No, liberals are generally accused of being communists/socialists. Conservatives are the ones who get called Nazis. It's just a matter of exaggerating the respective viewpoints. You shouldn't mix them up.

No, you don't understand. Some extreme conservatives literally think that the Nazis were liberal and that there's no difference.

 

[derder]

Everyone in this thread saying they want to buy the game even more, because the creator of the world and writer is a homophobe who works to deprive others of human rights, has severe maturity issues.

Honest to God, I just dismissed the game based on the title alone. I really thank the OP for pointing it out. I don't know how this slipped under my radar.

 

[Willectro]

Just like how people have the option to boycott this game, they also have the right to an opinion. No matter how narrow minded it may seem. I bought the game based solely on the game itself and the positive reviews it received. I can see the argument both ways though.

 

[Asmodai]

Nah, let's start an online petition instead. That will be exponentially more effective! :lol

If not purchasing Shadow Complex is a boycott, I guess I will be doing just that, though! What do I get for being part of the boycott? A cookie?

I was never planning to buy it in the first place, but hell, they don't need to know that, right? I can just pretend I'm not buying it for a more noble reason than that I don't care about it!

 

[MvmntInGrn]

If you boycott this for these very reasons, you might as well boycott everything in your entire life because I'm sure that import car you bought funded China, which somehow funded North Korea. (of course I'm being facetious) Or that game you bought was made in mexico and is somehow funding the drug cartels, I mean really people. If you live your life by principles such as these, you might as well just build a farm out in the middle of nowhere and harvest your own food, clothing, entertainment, or whatever because no matter what you buy, in the end it probably supports something your against.

I hate this agrument. Not every ethical situation means the same to everyone.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

To the people that don't understand the position that you can not buy a game because of someone involved, let me outline it for you.

- Orson Scott Card was brought in by the developers to help work on the game.
- As per this work, he receives a paycheck and more than likely receives royalties.
- OSC is an outspoken anti-gay zealot, actively donates to anti-gay causes, and sits on the boards of anti-gay organizations.
- The money that Orson Scott Card uses to fund these endeavors is not printed in his basement, it is gotten from the projects he works on.
- Some people don't want to give him that money.

Yes, other people worked on the game. It's a shame they associate themselves with Card. But if Jerry Falwell rose from the grave and helped make a video game, even if it had nothing to do with gays, feminists, and lesbians causing 9/11 as he believes they did, I still wouldn't buy it.

If that doesn't matter to you, fine. Everyone has their own set of priorities. But show some fucking respect, you're acting like children.

 

[goldenpp72]

you should just shut the fuck up instead, good god man. If people are stupid enough to listen to the one bad guy who worked on the game, let them, it's not worth trying to starve the other part of the team :/

 

[Mutagenic]

Card is just an ignorant, delusional religious retard.

The game really has nothing to do with him. (especially since I skip all cutscenes)

You're clearly better than those who you just targeted.

Amazing.

 

[Undeux]

If you boycott this for these very reasons, you might as well boycott everything in your entire life because I'm sure that import car you bought funded China, which somehow funded North Korea. (of course I'm being facetious) Or that game you bought was made in mexico and is somehow funding the drug cartels, I mean really people. If you live your life by principles such as these, you might as well just build a farm out in the middle of nowhere and harvest your own food, clothing, entertainment, or whatever because no matter what you buy, in the end it probably supports something your against.

Except that all of your examples have very indirect and blurry consequences, and this one has a very clear one. Buy this game and OSC will get some money. I won't be boycotting the game, but I understand the principle.

 

[Qtopia]

WOW!!!!!!! What the fuck happened to the VG Forum? Not going to say much other than this thread is a cesspool of short sighted views on:

1. Mormonism (most are great people)
2. Prop 8 (Believe it or not the PEOPLE of California voted it down NOT Card)
3. Moronic Principles (i.e. I only buy his books second hand?!?!? REALLY?!?!?)
4. Civil Unions/Gay Marriage (Learn Definitions of Terms)
5. Ignorance (Hate to break it to everyone but like it or not Homosexuality IS a reproductive dysfunction. This is SCIENCE not Opinion)

This list could go on, but it's unnecessary as %90 of GAF isn't so silly as to take this topic seriously, thankfully. One of the most Off Topic posts I have seen in awhile. Everyone has a stance on Homosexuality and NO ONE here is going to change that. Regardless of what side you sit on, nearly everyone, despite their views are great human beings.

With this said, homophobia is not something I condone. Homosexuality is not a crime. I am pro Civil Unions. If you disagree with me GREAT! I will still appreciate you as a human, period. I can be just as ignorant as anyone, I just generally try my hardest to not make other people slap their palm to their forehead after listening to me!

People seriously need to READ both view points of any argument that they shall contest or debate.

 

[Princess Skittles]

This thread made me want to buy the game more.

thumbsupsolider.gif

 

[woodypop]

I hope the people not buying this also check in which countries their clothes are made and in what conditions, same for electronics etc.

I mean if you pretend to be some consumer with a consience then do it right.

Otherwise it reeks of hypocrisy.

We all choose our battles.

 

[Drinky Crow]

This is my general thinking. Pretty much everything you buy has been made on cheap foreign labor/child labor or has gotten some jerk rich.

Now this debate would be ENTIRELY different if Shadow Complex was made soley by OSC and he was using the profits to eliminate the gay population, but that's not the case.

the world is full of jerks. i choose to focus my picojoule of complaint on one jerk who has really pissed me off: orson scott card.

 

[Router]

I got the game but after reading this thread I fapped to the many toned, athletic and rugged men in the game to even up the score.

Take that Card!

 

[Doubledex]

Shadow Complex is a 360 Live game that was released to VERY good reviews this week. Its a Metroid Style game brought up to speed with this generations graphics.

However, its set in an Orson Scott Card's world he wrote. Now he has self admitted he didnt have much to do with this game, but, he will be getting profits for the game

Now why should we boycott it? Card is a notorious homophobe.


Crazy Rants from Card

More Crazy Rants from Card

Should we buy this game?

Gaygamer article on this.

WTF??? Are you stupid?

 

[billy.sea]

I think we should boycott this thread.

 

[Y2Kev]

This sort of bothers me. Not in a way to get me to stop playing the game (just beat it), but ew.

I agree on the atrocious writing. It's like...total garbage. The cutscenes (like the ending) feel like they were ripped out of an SNES game in terms of pacing and production. Which is sort of what they're going for?

 

[Shig]

I enjoyed the game, but its atrocious writing definitely guaranteed I'll be implementing a lifelong boycott of Orson Scott Card's books.