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[Jay Sosa]

im thorn..on the one side im happy it seems to be an awesome game on the other hand i now have to buy a wii for like 4 games (zelda, smg and xenoblade)

do you guys think a wii u version is already in the works?

 

[kunonabi]

sure, if you missed majora's mask, that is.

MM had a time limit and slightly better dungeons than OoT. It was still a breeze.

 

[Orayn]

The whole concept of having to artificially restrict yourself to get a decent challenge from a game is stupid, and indicates that the balance is off to begin with.

It's not at all artificial in the case of Zelda, since you could choose not to pick up the heart pieces from the very first installment. I'd say it's more of a seldom-pursued hard mode.

im thorn..on the one side im happy it seems to be an awesome game on the other hand i now have to buy a wii for like 4 games (zelda, smg and xenoblade)

do you guys think a wii u version is already in the works?

Doubtful. It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to completely re-work the controls to use dual analog and a touch screen instead of motion, and Nintendo would likely be skittish about releasing a single player game the requires the Wiimote.

 

[Version 3.0]

SS starts with 6 hearts, but most enemies deal 1 heart of damage. That means you can take 6 hits before dying. With TP, you start with 3, most enemies deal 1/4. You can take 12 hits before dying.

Now think about it, in SS, even if you take 1 more heart, that's just one more hit you can take before dying, in TP, that would be 4 more hits.

By the end of the game:

SS: 20 hits.
TP: 80 hits. (40 for enemies that take 1/2 of a heart.)

So the key is to not get hit, I guess. Just a random though. I mean, that's already something for difficulty.

All true, but there's more to it than that as well. One thing that's always bugged me about Wind Waker and Twilight Princess' combat are the "prompted" combat moves. You know, the ones you can't do until the game puts up the "press A" prompt. What bothers me about it isn't just the actual hand-holding mechanic, but also the other problem it highlights - how seldom the enemies actually attack.

The randomly wandering enemies in 2D Zelda games felt far more threatening than the "are you ready? here comes an attack" combat of TP. I hope the enemies in SS actually attack. I'm expecting that they won't, that they'll just walk up and hold their hands out and wait for you to swing accordingly. Any damage would come from screw-ups on your part, not from the game trying to hurt you. I'd love to be wrong. I'm on media blackout, so if it's already been demonstrated otherwise, I haven't seen it.

 

[royalan]

It's not at all artificial in the case of Zelda, since you could choose not to pick up the heart pieces from the very first installment. I'd say it's more of a seldom-pursued hard mode.

Doubtful. It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to completely re-work the controls, and Nintendo would likely be skittish about releasing a single player game the requires the Wiimote.

That's a case of arguing semantics if I've ever seen one.

 

[UltimateIke]

Have the reviews mentioned anything about the rumored "second play-through" NoA's Twitter invented? Or has it long since been debunked?

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

MM had a time limit and slightly better dungeons than OoT. It was still a breeze.

Not for me D:
MM is the only 3D LoZ I still haven't beaten.
I'll probably 6 heart run through SS at first, skip the side quests. Then on my second run, I'll do everything. of vis versa, not sure yet.

 

[Gravijah]

the only thing hard in majora's mask is the final goron roll.

 

[Ooccoo]

All true, but there's more to it than that as well. One thing that's always bugged me about Wind Waker and Twilight Princess' combat are the "prompted" combat moves. You know, the ones you can't do until the game puts up the "press A" prompt. What bothers me about it isn't just the actual hand-holding mechanic, but also the other problem it highlights - how seldom the enemies actually attack.

The randomly wandering enemies in 2D Zelda games felt far more threatening than the "are you ready? here comes an attack" combat of TP. I hope the enemies in SS actually attack. I'm expecting that they won't, that they'll just walk up and hold their hands out and wait for you to swing accordingly. Any damage would come from screw-ups on your part, not from the game trying to hurt you. I'd love to be wrong. I'm on media blackout, so if it's already been demonstrated otherwise, I haven't seen it.

The contrary has been shown in fact. That's why I think the challenge in this Zelda will be on par with the 3D entries, meaning not very difficult. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

MM had a time limit and slightly better dungeons than OoT. It was still a breeze.

Majora's Mask probably has the most balanced difficulty of the 3D games. It's not incredibly difficult on its surface, but it still manages to reward more advanced players. There are often two or more ways to accomplish something, and the more difficult of the two is typically the more expedient if you've got the chops to do it. If Skyward Sword manages to strike a similar balance I'll be glad.

the only thing hard in majora's mask is the final goron roll.

That was pretty awesome. Also,

Spoiler

Majora's Wrath

puts up a good fight if you don't have the

Spoiler

fierce deity mask

.

 

[Orayn]

That's a case of arguing semantics if I've ever seen one.

Why? Three heart runs would be a highly artificial way of limiting yourself if not getting new heart containers involved some sort of glitch or complicated method, but the game puts the option right in front of you. I mean, I agree that Zelda's balance has been on the easy side for a while now, but a perfectly reasonable, accessible way of increasing it has been there the whole time.

 

[Version 3.0]

I'm probably stating the obvious, but some of the posts here lead me to believe that I'm not.

If you're concerned about a lack of combat difficulty in a Zelda game, here's what you do: Once you've finished a temple, DON'T PICK UP THE HEART! If you find that the game is becoming too difficult for you, after the next temple, PICK UP THE HEART!

I played TP on release with 4 hearts, and I found the difficulty to be perfect for me; how odd.

There's a lot more to it than that. See my last post, for example. Challenge isn't just the threat of losing or dieing. Every attack could be set to "instant death" and it wouldn't improve the combat much.

 

[imthemaid]

The whole concept of having to artificially restrict yourself to get a decent challenge from a game is stupid, and indicates that the balance is off to begin with.

Woh, deja vu. I think we had this exact same conversation a couple of years ago in a twilight princess thread. Our perspectives on this are very different. I see it as an elegant method to finely tune difficulty as you play. One person's idea of a decent challenge is not necessarily the same as another's. I understand if you'd find a difficulty menu less artificial, but I prefer the heart method.

 

[Kilrogg]

All true, but there's more to it than that as well. One thing that's always bugged me about Wind Waker and Twilight Princess' combat are the "prompted" combat moves. You know, the ones you can't do until the game puts up the "press A" prompt. What bothers me about it isn't just the actual hand-holding mechanic, but also the other problem it highlights - how seldom the enemies actually attack.

The randomly wandering enemies in 2D Zelda games felt far more threatening than the "are you ready? here comes an attack" combat of TP. I hope the enemies in SS actually attack. I'm expecting that they won't, that they'll just walk up and hold their hands out and wait for you to swing accordingly. Any damage would come from screw-ups on your part, not from the game trying to hurt you. I'd love to be wrong. I'm on media blackout, so if it's already been demonstrated otherwise, I haven't seen it.

Good post. Reflects my sentiment well. Also, from what I've seen, the way enemies behave doesn't seem that different from previous 3D Zelda games (with the exception of the positional guard obviously). I think we're both in for a disappointment on that front.

 

[Kandinsky]

I hope Amir0x dont go crazy with the OT, those HD official thread games with multiple posts OPs are seriously ridiculous.

 

[royalan]

Why? Three heart runs would be a highly artificial way of limiting yourself if not getting new heart containers involved some sort of glitch or complicated method, but the game puts the option right in front of you. I mean, I agree that Zelda's balance has been on the easy side for a while now, but a perfectly reasonable, accessible way of increasing it has been there the whole time.

Because it goes against what the game encourages you to do. You just beat the big bad of the dungeon. You see a big ass chest appear. Chests give rewards. You WANT to open the chest. Sorry, but the vast majority of players are going to open the dang chest.

To not open the chest would require you to have already played the game, know that there's a heart in the chest, and to make the conscious decision to not open the chest because you want the game to remain challenging. Sounds pretty artificial to me.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

You had trouble in Spirit Tracks?

I guess difficulty really is relative...

Go check out the OT, a surprising number of people had trouble with a couple points in the tower. And you know people lacking the rhythm to play simple songs on a pan pipe.

Because it goes against what the game encourages you to do. You just beat the big bad of the dungeon. You see a big ass chest appear. Chests give rewards. You WANT to open the chest. Sorry, but the vast majority of players are going to open the dang chest.

To not open the chest would require you to have already played the game, know that there's a heart in the chest, and to make the conscious decision to not open the chest because you want the game to remain challenging. Sounds pretty artificial to me.

There aint no chests. Bosses drop those Heart pieces clean. On the overworld, most of the hearts are out in the open. The only ones you have to "worry" about are the ones given to you by NPCs. But if you pick up a heart piece or two, so what?

 

[imthemaid]

There's a lot more to it than that. See my last post, for example. Challenge isn't just the threat of losing or dieing. Every attack could be set to "instant death" and it wouldn't improve the combat much.

It's true, the amount of damage that your character can take isn't the only variable in a game's combat difficulty, but I'm not arguing about the quality or intricacy in Zelda combat systems. All I was saying is that the difficulty can be adjusted while you play.

 

[HylianScribe]

Fuck this room. I hate you. So many runs ended here. Die.

Enemies frequently knock Link back into the lava to die. FUCK! Oh haha, I got Fairy Spell! WAIT, WHAT IS THIS WALL OF BLOCKS? DAMN IT! ARGGGGGG!

I want Zelda games to be this difficult again.

 

[Ooccoo]

What I don't understand is the lack of a Hard new game mode in Zelda. It would fit the bill perfectly. Make it so in this mode you can't get hearts and monsters do 50% more damage.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Woh, deja vu. I think we had this exact same conversation a couple of years ago in a twilight princess thread. Our perspectives on this are very different. I see it as an elegant method to finely tune difficulty as you play. One person's idea of a decent challenge is not necessarily the same as another's. I understand if you'd find a difficulty menu less artificial, but I prefer the heart method.

Forgive this old man, he tends to repeat himself from time to time. I've always thought the best balance in a Zelda game is when getting all the hearts on the main path (i.e.- after bosses) gives you enough to scrape by, a little exploring yields enough to feel ahead of the game, and if the player so desires they can scour the landscape and build up until Link is basically unstoppable. Once again, it's a risk reward system. You can progress quickly with very little if you're skilled, and therefore have less need to backtrack for non-essential items. Meanwhile, the person who likes exploring every nook and cranny feels genuinely rewarded when they find an upgrade, which is something that's missing when your baseline difficulty is hyper easy. That's what I consider balance, not making the main quest so breezy that fans of the series have to tie one arm behind their back just to level the playing field.

 

[Out of Working Order]

The main thing I've always enjoyed in the Zelda games has been the puzzles. Even if the enemies turned out to be relatively easy to beat, as long as the puzzles are there, and they have me scratching my head for a while, I am happy.

And the items, according to EDGE, have paved the way for some inventive puzzles. I am looking forward to it.

Slightly disappointed if the enemies are easier than I was hoping for, though. Going from Demon's Souls to this may seem a little odd.

 

[Codeblue]

I think Zelda II's difficulty was perfect but with a little more guidance of where you're supposed to go. I played it for the first time this year and it was really refreshing to play a tough Zelda.

 

[royalan]

There aint no chests. Bosses drop those Heart pieces clean. On the overworld, most of the hearts are out in the open. The only ones you have to "worry" about are the ones given to you by NPCs. But if you pick up a heart piece or two, so what?

It's not a problem with me. I personally don't think how much health you have should be the main determining factor of the game's difficulty. As others have said, it would be nice if enemies actively attacked you...instead of display an easy-to-read pattern and wait for you to attack them.

 

[Orayn]

Because it goes against what the game encourages you to do. You just beat the big bad of the dungeon. You see a big ass chest appear. Chests give rewards. You WANT to open the chest. Sorry, but the vast majority of players are going to open the dang chest.

To not open the chest would require you to have already played the game, know that there's a heart in the chest, and to make the conscious decision to not open the chest because you want the game to remain challenging. Sounds pretty artificial to me.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any occasions where a (complete) heart piece is delivered to you in a chest, rather than left floating, unhidden, where the boss died.

 

[Magicpaint]

Majora's Mask probably has the most balanced difficulty of the 3D games. It's not incredibly difficult on its surface, but it still manages to reward more advanced players. There are often two or more ways to accomplish something, and the more difficult of the two is typically the more expedient if you've got the chops to do it. If Skyward Sword manages to strike a similar balance I'll be glad.

That was pretty awesome. Also,

Spoiler

Majora's Wrath

puts up a good fight if you don't have the

Spoiler

fierce deity mask

.

Agreed. I thought OoT was fairly balanced too. It's from WW that things went a bit off.

 

[JasoNsider]

Fuck this room. I hate you. So many runs ended here. Die.

Enemies frequently knock Link back into the lava to die. FUCK! Oh haha, I got Fairy Spell! WAIT, WHAT IS THIS WALL OF BLOCKS? DAMN IT! ARGGGGGG!

I want Zelda games to be this difficult again.

If you haven't already, play Dark Souls. They are this generation's Zelda 1 & 2 in that regard. It's also the reason I have no worries about it being too easy, since I get my challenge fix from Demon's/Dark Souls.

 

[Red]

Agreed. I thought OoT was fairly balanced too. It's from WW that things went a bit off.

OoT was really easy as well. Even aLttP was a walk in the park compared to the first two games. I don't think it ever got very difficult until maybe the sixth dark world dungeon.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

The whole concept of having to artificially restrict yourself to get a decent challenge from a game is stupid, and indicates that the balance is off to begin with.

That's because you seem to see challenge to be a necessity for a game to be enjoyable, other people don't.

 

[ashbash159]

I think I'm ready for a new Zelda.

I sold my Wii in 2009 since I was a poor 16 year old and wanted to buy many of the games that came out autumn of that year.

My sister got a Wii for Christmas 2010. She doesn't really play it much.

I hope she'll let me play Zelda on her Wii.

I haven't seen much on this game apart from the stuff at E3 and a couple of trailers uploaded to Giant Bomb.

This game wasn't really on my radar until Edge's 10/10 review was announced.

Quite interested in it now.

 

[royalan]

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any occasions where a (complete) heart piece is delivered to you in a chest, rather than left floating, unhidden, where the boss died.

Sorry, just continued the chest analogy since a poster above me referenced it. Replace chest with "big ass reward" and my point still stands.

When you're playing a Zelda game and you're presented with these hearts, it's with the idea that you're going to need them to progress through the game. It's natural for a player to assume that if they're presented with methods to expand their health capacity, it's because they're going to need it. It's only in subsequent playthroughs that you can say with certainty that you can complete a game without upgraded health.

Consistently ignoring health upgrades to keep the game challenging is artificial. Especially when it's health upgrades presented to you within the frame of the main story, and not a side quest.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

So, ONM says in regards to the dark-skin blonde character we've seen...

Spoiler

That she's a character from a past game? A younger Impa? Surely, being a magical Sheikah, she might have the ability to live longer than a normal human.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Request time!

I need 1080p wallpaper of Zelda (not Link)! please? ;_;

Best I could do on short notice:

http://i.minus.com/iba634YvOBcAMN.png

http://i.minus.com/ibzXYu8C8MmcAj.png

http://i.minus.com/iwEzM41ZIFBcf.png

 

[DragonKnight]

Yeah. I don't play Zelda games to die. Each to his own.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

I think you're worse than him.

Avatar quote (since I can't seem to do it). Trading in games because of font is several steps worse than my alphabetical issues.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Edge quotes. Big thank you to Majora from the RLLMUK forum.

Got home and Edge was waiting for me. Some quotes from the review and the Post Script:

On swordplay - 'In action, it is nothing short of revelatory...the victories are ours in a way they could never be with a standard controller.'

On Skyloft and the overworld - 'Imagine a halfway house between MM's Clock Town and WW's ocean; a community of oddballs scattered across a sky archipelago. Considerably smaller than the sea, it makes up for it in density of character.'

On the puzzles - 'How's this for a statement of intent: not a single torch-lighting number, and only one push-the-box-on-the-button incident...Where TP's gizmos gathered dust after glorious debut dungeons, SS keeps its kitbag tight and in constant circulation, with ingenious multitasking and surprise upgrades along the way.'

On the upgrade system - 'Such avenues jar with an adventure balanced for the base items. Odds don't need swinging in Link's favour...that said, the idea gains traction once the end credits have rolled.' (NG+?)

'No two hours are the same...its 35 hours - that's ignoring a wealth of trinkets - fly by in a heroic blur.'

Post Script stuff, basically looking at how Nintendo have overhauled the structure and world to make it feel denser and more lived in:

'Exploring Hyrules of old, you can wonder what exactly Link is fighting for. On the surface these are games obsessed with their lands...stepping out on to the cherished soil paints a different picture. This is virgin territory, untouched and unloved...far from a living breathing ecosystem, Hyrule is a sealed adventure playground...For such topographical waste to exist in the same universe as Nintendo's dungeons is mystifying. And if Skyward Sword is anything to go by, Nintendo feels the same way'.

'Field areas now teem with life...off-duty shop staff reveal the comically tragic lives behind their forced grins. Characters have a place and purpose in this world; can you say the same of Ocarina's perpetually giggling brothers?'

'Where previous Zelda's felt overly prepared, with everything positioned just so for the adventure to begin, dowsing let's Nintendo adjust on the fly. Come the end of the game, players will be surprised by how much they missed on previous passes.'

''Aonuma highlights the ability to go back to a dungeon you have already explored, with a new mission. This, he explains, brings you the newfound possibility of using your memory and your experience of the dungeon to help you in the challenge. Indeed, entering once-liberated grounds to clash with a new batch of squatters is one of the game's richest pleasures.'

'A few developments pull off the coup of altering playstyles entirely..the desire to cram play styles into a limited space owes a bigger debt to Mario than any previous Zelda. The plumber's 2D jaunts make an artform of transformative spaces, where a simple costume change reveals unseen expanses and a trail of red coins carves challenging dares around familiar platforms. There it feeds into Mario's guileless pursuit of joy, here it conjures something more. Only when you know a place inside out does it truly become worth fighting for.'

 

[Crumpet Trumpet]

not a single torch-lighting number

the one game i was looking forward to lighting a torch with with Wii MotionPlus™ controls and i don't get it


grumblegrumblepreordercancelledgrumblegrumble

 

[Nocturnowl]

So, ONM says in regards to the dark-skin blonde character we've seen...

Spoiler

That she's a character from a past game? A younger Impa? Surely, being a magical Sheikah, she might have the ability to live longer than a normal human.

Spoiler

how about Impaz from Twilight Princess? she may have some relation to "sky people" with her ancient sky book

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Spoiler

how about Impaz from Twilight Princess? she may have some relation to "sky people" with her ancient sky book

Called it:

Spoiler

Could be a very young Impaz. Or just a Sheikah we don't know yet.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Edge quotes. Big thank you to Majora from the RLLMUK forum.

Thanks for posting that. Sounds like Nintendo took criticism about the vast empty overworlds to heart, which is really promising to hear. The character stuff sounds great as well. I love MM, and Windfall Island was one of the high points of WW imo. Glad to hear that their influence seems to have crept into SS.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

Edge quotes

Sweet Ganondorf's beard.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Called it:

But

Spoiler

Impaz is supposed to be named after the founder of Kakariko Village.

 

[Orayn]

EDGE QUOTES

THANK YOU BASED NINTENGOD!
This sounds incredible. All of it.

 

[BeauRoger]

I really think that the stone tower temple in MM is a good representation of what a zelda dungeon should be in terms of thinking and difficulty. Sure, i was like 13 at the time, but once you entered the temple and saw the whole area flip, you were filled with that forboding feeling thinking "this is gonna take a while.."

Something that was always awesome in zelda games is the elation you felt when you knew you were nearing the end of the dungeon, that anticipation. and the harder the temple, the better the feeling. Stone temple was perfect like that, and so was woodfall temple.

 

[Empty]

why is this game still a month or so away. why.

 

[Nocturnowl]

But

Spoiler

Impaz is supposed to be named after the founder of Kakariko Village.

well you see.....

Spoiler

it's a Zelda storyline thus it makes no sense.
Alternatively Time Travel.

 

[Vire]

Dear Zelda fans,

When the reviews hit worldwide please don't be like Uncharted fans

Sincerely,

Fellow GAFer and Zelda fan.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

But

Spoiler

Impaz is supposed to be named after the founder of Kakariko Village.

It doesn't make sense she'd be alive for hundreds (thousands?) of years anyways.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Dear Zelda fans,

When the reviews hit worldwide please don't be like Uncharted fans

Sincerely,

Fellow GAFer and Zelda fan.

Your words fall shall fall on deaf ears. :/

 

[ace3skoot]

I really think that the stone tower temple in MM is a good representation of what a zelda dungeon should be in terms of thinking and difficulty. Sure, i was like 13 at the time, but once you entered the temple and saw the whole area flip, you were filled with that forboding feeling thinking "this is gonna take a while.."

Something that was always awesome in zelda games is the elation you felt when you knew you were nearing the end of the dungeon, that anticipation. and the harder the temple, the better the feeling. Stone temple was perfect like that, and so was woodfall temple.

ergh that temple wasn't hard it ws just tedious that yo hd to rek back everytime to flip it, stone tower is example of what i don't want from a zelda dungeon fun boss though and who doesn't love the giants mask ...and the lone room in the whole game you can use it in