Salty Rice
Member
Well its still better than all of the FF13 games.
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So who/what exactly is Tidus? [Spoilers]
- Thread starter Lights and Waves
- Start date
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
They're dream people. Seeing as how Dream Zanarkand isn't 100% like Real Zanarkand was in the past - more like an idealized version of it - it makes sense that the people it dreams up are also a bit off from the original idea. I mean, OG Zan had:
-War
-Summoners
-Yevon
-More political strife
And so on. It also seemed to be surrounded by different geography. Dream Zanarkand seems like a pretty nice place to live comparatively, so, in that sense, Tidus is likely "based on" Shuyin, but as an idealized Shuyin, or a chance for Shuyin to have a better life. It's not clear whether or not everyone in Dream Zan is based on someone who originally existed in Real Zan, but Tidus at least is heavily implied to be.
I don't mean to bring religion into this, but just as an aside, I've seen theories on the afterlife where people who die who back to "God" or "the light" and help participate in "the song of creation" as the ultimate endpoint for their existence. The Fayth seem sort of similar in that they seem to be a collective consciousness of sorts that knows the past and history of those who lived and died in Zanarkand - they dream up Tidus based on Shuyin, because they know his life and have experienced it, but Tidus is still Tidus - he's his own person.
-War
-Summoners
-Yevon
-More political strife
And so on. It also seemed to be surrounded by different geography. Dream Zanarkand seems like a pretty nice place to live comparatively, so, in that sense, Tidus is likely "based on" Shuyin, but as an idealized Shuyin, or a chance for Shuyin to have a better life. It's not clear whether or not everyone in Dream Zan is based on someone who originally existed in Real Zan, but Tidus at least is heavily implied to be.
I don't mean to bring religion into this, but just as an aside, I've seen theories on the afterlife where people who die who back to "God" or "the light" and help participate in "the song of creation" as the ultimate endpoint for their existence. The Fayth seem sort of similar in that they seem to be a collective consciousness of sorts that knows the past and history of those who lived and died in Zanarkand - they dream up Tidus based on Shuyin, because they know his life and have experienced it, but Tidus is still Tidus - he's his own person.
Synless
Member
What? Is this accurate? I thought Tidus was always real at a time.
Zanarkand being out in the ocean always bothered me. You're telling me no one has gone out far enough to at least see the massive amount of lights coming from there? It was a huge city. I get that Sin protects it, but it's still pretty farfetched. Damn, if they had telescopes, an expedition would be sent out. It can't possibly be that far off if Tidus washed up at Baaj and the Al Bhed just so happened to be there.
If you play more of the game you will understand better. If you want spoilers though: Tidus isn't actually a dream, rather he is a being similar to all of the fiends and summons and stuff: his body is made up of magic. Also, ghosts in FFX's setting are often as solid as normal people thanks to the same phenomenon.
AuthenticM
Member
???
If we go by that metric, all blond-haired JRPG pretty boys would "look the same".
There's a case in saying that they do, lol.
Zomba13
Member
This just made me think. Who exactly is Jecht? Like, if he's Tidus dad but Tidus is a fake/dream/not real then is the same true for Jecht? How did he help Braska and become his final Aeon? Same with Auron. He visted Tidus in the dream Zanarkand and they knew each other so it didn't seem like a one time thing? Unless all of Tidus dream memories are fake or pre-programmed then Auron didn't hop back and forth but just pulled him out the once?
It's been forever since I played this and I've forgotten most of the stuff apart from general things like Tidus was a dream person and Auron was dead and Jecht was a meanie.
It's been forever since I played this and I've forgotten most of the stuff apart from general things like Tidus was a dream person and Auron was dead and Jecht was a meanie.
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
Dream Zanarkand is collectively being dreamed up by the Fayth, and being continuously summoned by Yu Yevon. It's a large amalgamation of Aeons, one of which is Tidus. When Yu Yevon is put to rest at the end of FFX, his 1000 year summoning finally stops and all parts of Dream Zanarkand disappear and the Fayth are set free from their 1000 years of dreaming an entire city.
The Fayth, as a show of gratitude to Yuna at the end of FFX-2, continue to dream up just Tidus (much easier than a whole city), who is then presumably summoned by Yuna.
Originally, Yu Yevon used Dream Zanarkand as a kind of last ditch effort to preserve the nation. It's not clear what its exact nature was, but my take is that the original citizens of Dream Zanarkand were all copies of people who lived at the time of the real Zanarkand's destruction, or perhaps they were likenesses of the citizens who had become the Fayth. These dream citizens went on to live lives and have children. Tidus is a descendant of these original citizens after 1000 years.
Why Tidus resembles Shuyin is unclear. Perhaps the Fayth recycle likenesses over the generations.
Just because Aeons are dreams does not mean they are fake, or not real. They are still corporeal beings that can interact with the world and think for themselves. It's just that their existence is tied to their Fayth and their Summoner. Jecht, like Tidus, is a part of Dream Zanarkand. At the time he became Braska's final Aeon, he was a physical being like any other.
The Fayth, as a show of gratitude to Yuna at the end of FFX-2, continue to dream up just Tidus (much easier than a whole city), who is then presumably summoned by Yuna.
Originally, Yu Yevon used Dream Zanarkand as a kind of last ditch effort to preserve the nation. It's not clear what its exact nature was, but my take is that the original citizens of Dream Zanarkand were all copies of people who lived at the time of the real Zanarkand's destruction, or perhaps they were likenesses of the citizens who had become the Fayth. These dream citizens went on to live lives and have children. Tidus is a descendant of these original citizens after 1000 years.
Why Tidus resembles Shuyin is unclear. Perhaps the Fayth recycle likenesses over the generations.
Just because Aeons are dreams does not mean they are fake, or not real. They are still corporeal beings that can interact with the world and think for themselves. It's just that their existence is tied to their Fayth and their Summoner. Jecht, like Tidus, is a part of Dream Zanarkand. At the time he became Braska's final Aeon, he was a physical being like any other.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
O_O
I was thinking about resisting the Final Fantasy series, but wow that makes me not give a crap again.
Jecht is just like Tidus: a creation of Yu Yevon and the Fayth. Now, how exactly their lives in Zanarkand works is a little fuzzy. However, they are essentially Aeons. An Aeon is created when a Summoner combines their power with a Fayth (a human soul sealed in stone) to create a powerful being. However, are Tidus and Jecht each associated with their own individual Fayth, or is all of Zanarkand created from the collective power of the entire group of Gagazet Fayth? The latter is how it is usually described I suppose.
It is hard to guess at any specifics, since the physics of how pyreflies, souls, fiends, Fayth, and Aeons work are so vaguely defined and completely different from any reality. Perhaps the best answer is to not over-think it. I guess the best way to think of it though is that the people of Zanarkand are real people living real lives but are made up of pyreflies rather than real matter. They are real living people made up out of magic. There are some unusual references made by the Fayth if you go talk to them later in the game though, which along with the ending just raise more questions. The only thing that can be said is that the dispelling of the Zanarkand summoning isn't death or oblivion for Tidus and the people of Zanarkand. They don't cease to exist, but rather the nature of their existence changes somehow. FF X-2 did not make any of this any clearer.
How Auron came to Zanarkand is a lot clearer: after he died, he rode on Sin as an unsent. Presumably, because Sin was his friend Jecht, it was relatively safe for him, and he wasn't permanently absorbed into Sin like most Unsent would be. He uses the same method to bring Tidus out of Zanarkand and into Spira after spending several years looking after the kid.
DarkLordMalik
Member
I got teary eyed during this scene T_T
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Haven't beaten X-2, but to me Tidus seemed like a fragment of a dream/group of summons that the Fayth conjured up, that somehow strayed from his set path and place, and ended up with Yuna and the guardians. That he had his own will, feelings, and character arch where you watched him grow from a teen with daddy-issues to someone that wanted to step-it-up for Yuna made it that much more somber.
God I love X.
God I love X.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
He was a good dude. He was loved. RIP.
paragonpro
Banned
Is that weird fucked up novella with the graphic sex and bomb balls cannon?
Agreed.
I'm not sure if you meant revisiting the series instead of resisting but if you did I think you should definitely check it out the series again especially with XV coming. While the audio drama/novel did have a few interesting concepts and ideas, overall it was terribad and it seems to be something they've (hopefully) locked away and won't revisit again.
Also on the topic of Jecht, I don't think that because someone is related in Dream Zanarkand it instantly means that they were related in the real Zanarkand. The fayth couldn't have known every single person in Zanarkand and things probably could've been muddled together when DZ was created. Jecht could've been based on the memory of some deadbeat who happened to play blitzball and somehow the fayth made him Tidus's dad. The memory of people in Dream Zanarkand seems to be warped as well since Tidus doesn't seem to have any knowledge of the Bevelle/Zanarkand war or Summoners even though they were a large presence in real Zanarkand (The 'troops' on Zanarkand's side of the war were summoners Ex. Lenne.)
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I haven't read this thing, but is it really as bad as people claim it to be? I'm afraid to check. Also, even if it is really cannon, is it written by the same group that wrote FFX?
Why did we never get a prequel? The game paints Auron, Braska and Jecht adventure as the turning point when they realise things need to change before knowing they were already too late and setting in the plan to kick off the events of FFX. The memory spheres always showed them as being a laugh to be around with Jecht being jokey and Auron being all serious, etc, seemed like there could be a great game and a lot of good comedy stuff in there. But nope.
It is. It was written by Kazushige Nojima who was the scenario writer for both X and X-2. At this point I would be morbidly curious to see what X-3 would be but considering its negative in both the east and the west I don't think SE is dumb enough to do that unless they seriously rewrote everything.
Because it would be boring and redundant? Braska story isn't one that would really need to be told through a 30-40 hour game. I think a prequel set during the Bevelle/Zanarkand War would be vastly more interesting.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
What am I looking at here? Beta and Final models?
aygomyownroad
Member
I played X-2 before X...
I am struggling with X. I don't know but the story of X-2 basically a woman looking for her lost love is easy to understand... X is a mind fuck and I can't get to grips with the story at all.
I love these theories though
I am struggling with X. I don't know but the story of X-2 basically a woman looking for her lost love is easy to understand... X is a mind fuck and I can't get to grips with the story at all.
I love these theories though
Ophiuchus
Member
It doesn't but it is not anywhere near the FFX.
Fourth Storm
Member
Christ, I love this shit. Great explanation. Final Fantasy's metaphysics and religious beliefs have always been a fascinating component of the series. Then you've got Yu Yevon and his Lovecraftian existence. X's lore is top notch. haha
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
This is what I was asking...I've never actually beaten the game so hopefully it's not too spoilery.
It's a cutscene spoilering the major point of FF X-2.
Lights and Waves
Member
It's the spoiler of all spoilers for the game.
This honestly blew my mind a year ago and i was mad i didn't put it together. I always thought Tidus just went forward in time. But then I saw a post somewhere that explained Dream Zanarkand and it made a ton more sense. I believe it's just past the Baaj Temple.
It also made sense when Bahamuts Fayth explained that Yu Yevon was constantly summoning the Dream. It had to be a tangible thing if Yu Yevon was summoning it. Definitely explains Jecht being "lost at sea" He just ventured too far out from the "dream".
sheepishlord
Member
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
The question is whether Tidus and Jecht were people living in the original Zanarkand set in a time redux where they lived forever living every day like it was new without realizing time wasn't passing, are descendants of "people" that were dreamed up by the Fayth in Dream Zanarkand, or they were approximations that lived in a time redux like the first example or were approximations based on descendants of the first approximations.
potatohead
Member
Yep. By miles too.
TheJollyCorner
Member
Yeah... this thread reminded me just how much of FFX-2's story I deleted from my brain.
I did really enjoy the abstract 'dream' concept of FFX's story, though. Like VIII with the Time Compression, it was Nojima-LSD at its finest. Love it. :}
I did really enjoy the abstract 'dream' concept of FFX's story, though. Like VIII with the Time Compression, it was Nojima-LSD at its finest. Love it. :}
potatohead
Member
Just like the summons can kick butt in the corporeal world I guess.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
One of the most annoying self insert protagonists in JRPG history.
EVA UNIT 01
Member
I came into this world as a
You magnificent motherfucker
psynergylover
Member
Rapscallion
Member
lollll what the shit.
Wait, she breaks up with him after his head is blown up? He doesn't die?
Final Fantasy X-2's gameplay was great, but the story was silly and unnecessary. Final Fantasy X didn't need a sequel.
What the fuck.
What the fuck.
I don't remember all the details since it's been awhile but if I remember correctly it seems Yuna managed to bring back from the dead. Tidus doesn't seem to remember what happened (at least I don't think he did iirc) and in the audio drama, when the pov character (auron's 'daughter') meets him she notes that he seems tired and his personality has changed (implying that there's probably something wrong with him and that what Yuna did might have possibly had consequences).
If you all just really want to know what happens, the summary is on the ffwikia (and other places) since this is technically getting off topic.
i wish i never knew this
My sides. Christ that is stupid writing.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
You want to hear something even worse?
In the Japanese only Ultimania books, it is suggested that FF7 takes place 1000 years after FFX in the same universe. Al Bhedos developed inter planetary travel and colonized the planet FF7 takes place on.
PataHikari
Banned
Tidus is not a self insert protaganist in the slightest.
Nor is he particularly annoying.