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Sony announces Q2 results
- Thread starter Parmenides
- Start date
JoshuaJSlone said:
Sony occasionally releases Press Releases like these:
That's unit sales (normal shipments) as of Dec 08. Before that there was a press Release in July where we got PS2 and PSP unit sales as of June 08. After that you just add quarterly to get the newest total.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Karma said:
As of 1998, yes; the numbers for 1994-1997 aren't there because I don't think SCE was properly broken out as its own division at that point
Gamecocks625
Member
2real4tv said:
?
Probably the first model
gamergirly
Member
Stumpokapow said:
That just creates a bigger focus on Sony's financial bottom line for the near future.
Road said:
While Wii's hardware sales might have declined in that quarter(well for the entire year in retrospect), its software is still flying off the shelves. Great sales for PS3, now all they need to do is keep it up. November and December NPD this year will be very interesting. Maybe Janurary too.
Scythesurge
Member
We could guess all we want but that is not the kind of information that would be found within these statements.2real4tv said:
Urban Scholar
Member
So can someone please break down the impact of the $654 million loss to me in laymen's terms? Is this with in acceptable levels or this a big worry?
Disturbing, a division can't keep hemorrhaging money indefinitely before major changes happen in that division. I am not talking about management shakeups and reorgs (which have already happened), I am talking fundamental changes like new business models or worse. The gaming division is following the typical scenario of a division that keeps losing money, first management is changed, then the division is reorganized (both of these have happened), next will be a change in division strategy and business model.
From the overseas investor conference:
As of September, cost of the PS3 was a little over 10% higher than retail price.
Toward the end of the fiscal year they expect this to drop to mid single digits - 5 or 6%
Thus next fiscal year they expect to break even and profit on PS3 hardware.
So...Slim got them a $100 pricecut and a marginal drop in their loss on the hardware ($40 down to $30 if we apply the above to the dollar prices)...which ain't too shabby.
As of September, cost of the PS3 was a little over 10% higher than retail price.
Toward the end of the fiscal year they expect this to drop to mid single digits - 5 or 6%
Thus next fiscal year they expect to break even and profit on PS3 hardware.
So...Slim got them a $100 pricecut and a marginal drop in their loss on the hardware ($40 down to $30 if we apply the above to the dollar prices)...which ain't too shabby.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
dionysus said:
Sounds like something that would have happened if the slim launch + price drop hadn't revitalized PS3 sales like they have. Seems like they recognize the momentum and are pretty set on keeping it up, so major division changes would be pretty ass-backwards at this point. Sony's probably not going Nintendo on us yet.
womfalcs3
Banned
I think 6 million PS3 units shipped this current quarter is conservative. Between FFXIII's release, the holiday season with the new price, and the global economy improving, they can probably even ship more.
They shipped 4.5 million last year in the same period and 4.9 million the year before that.
If they do ship 6 million units, that puts them at 10.3 million units for the three quarters. They would need 3 million more in the last quarter to meet their forecast.
They shipped 4.5 million last year in the same period and 4.9 million the year before that.
If they do ship 6 million units, that puts them at 10.3 million units for the three quarters. They would need 3 million more in the last quarter to meet their forecast.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
It definitely has room to keep shrinking and I wouldn't be surprised to see yearly revisions a la PSP.
Psychotext
Member
Yeah, I'm really struggling to find the data for the original PS1 years.Stumpokapow said:
bcn-ron said:
I'll have to go back to see exactly what he said, 'price' or 'retail price'.
But while the $30/$40 may well be wrong in the latter case, the sentiment - that the slim afforded the price cut with a small reduction in loss to boot - should still be correct. I guess if it is retail price, we of course have to work out the difference between wholesale and retail to get a better lock on what the margin is for Sony.
Averon said:
I think that RSX currently is still 65nm. So I presume that'll come down to 45nm next year with some cost improvement there.
Also...ha...someone asked about when the next generation Playstation would arrive. Needless to say they'd nothing much to say about that.
Huge past losses aside, it seems like they've finally gotten turned in the right direction. Selling the hardware at a loss means that profits will lag a sharp upturn in sales. As the 9M new PS3 owners in the second half of the calendar year buy games and accessories (assuming 6M sales this quarter), CY2010 results should be much better.
dolemite said:
Good catch. They have been pushing this profitable line for the last two fiscal years. So now it looks like it will be fiscal year 2011 at the earliest. It really is going to be interesting to see if they ever turn this thing around for good.
gofreak said:
That's interesting because that would put it in the same place of the fat in May . Slightly surprised it's still at 10%, but not too surprised.
gofreak said:
I'm sure that they're talking about the japanese price because it's the only one which makes sense for them. So the actual cost is 33.000 yen.
With the current exchange rate that is about 360$ and 245.
So just to give an idea they lose 30$ for every unit sold in Japan, they lose 60$ for every unit sold in the US and they make 80$ for every PS3 sold in Europe.
Of course this doesn't consider the retailer margin which is an added loss for them.
It's interesting that they expect to reduce their costs withing the fiscal year (probably because of economy of scale), then in the next fiscal year with a new revision with 45nm RSX in late summer as always they will probably be able to be proftable and cut the price by 50$.
Jtyettis said:
Pretty much. Slim got them their price cut without adversely affecting profitability (per unit) further. I pretty much guessed that they wouldn't 'do' Slim if that wasn't the case.
Given those numbers they should hit profitability on hardware next fiscal year (fy10), though that may depend on competitive pressure (i.e. if they have to cut again next year...which I think they will, though probably not by $100 again). Overall profitability in the games business though..? Well, your guess is as good as mine.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
OK. It's just I don't trust different generations of Sony shipment claims to be fully compatible when going for greatest accuracy, since there are occasional differences beyond rounding. Picky picky, yeah; but I guess we'll get some new LTD claim soon enough to work with.DarkMehm said:
Since PS3 is available in full, though, I demoted the previous numbers to "old2" status, since there was already the original "old".
gofreak said:
When they move to 45/45 they should get roughly even which is why they are saying they will move to profitability next fiscal year, and they will be only losing 5% ($15 or so per unit) by spring.
I doubt they will do a price cut next year, but I do think they will bundle stuff in, maybe a game or two, and maybe a wand when they come. I still think they should have thrown in a DLC game with the slim, like they did with PAIN before.
That $15 per unit loss by spring means they will be even or so if they sell one Sony published game per console. Not a bad deal at all.
And I don't get the above graph at all. It looks like sales from launch to today, but why are some lines shorter?
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
It shouldn't be a surprise either way. Hirai himself said the new hardware was still selling at a loss back in late August.bcn-ron said:
CaptainABAB
Member
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/30/ps3-has-lost-sony-4-7-billion-may-be-profitable-next-year/
(NeoGAF is mentioned in this article)
When he says: "materials cost" is he excluding marketing, distribution, etc.?
Sony CFO Nobuyuki Oneda claimed the PS3 was getting cheaper to produce, stating, "the difference between sales and materials cost has been reduced to between 10 and 20%. Within the year, it could be in the single digits." He later added, "we'll be able to reach profitability at some point in the next term."
(NeoGAF is mentioned in this article)
When he says: "materials cost" is he excluding marketing, distribution, etc.?
Sir Fragula said:
Sony games or Sony as a whole? Same with MS?
Because if only games then its not putting it into perspective really. MS and Sony may not care about losses/no gains in games if they drive their other divisions (think Bluray). Conversely, Nintendo has no other business aside from gaming, so for them the gaming division has to do well or else.
Psychotext
Member
It's the gaming related divisions.AndyD said:
Jtyettis said:
They're getting that from AndriaSang who seem to be reporting from the Japanese investor call.
In the overseas call, someone asked him to clarify his comments from the Japanese call earlier, and that's where he said "a little over 10%" as of September, single digits "5 or 6%" by end of fiscal year.
drakesfortune
Directions: Pull String For Uninformed Rant
Good that sales are up, but what is the point if they're still losing money. I just don't get Sony's end game. Are they playing for next gen at this point, or what are they doing? They're never going to make back all of these losses on the PS3. It's a shame too, I love the thing.
MikeE21286
Member
good numbers in terms of shipments.....although I still read in my WSJ RSS feed that they reported quite a substantial quarterly loss IIRC.
drakesfortune said:
I think the point is to hit a critical mass with the PS3 audience such that the business is break-even/profitable.
The audience to date has been too small. So while it's painful in the short term to drive the userbase, I guess their hope is that the content consumption will as a consequence hit a point where that cost of user-acquisition (and the cost of running the playstation business as they continue to run it - e.g. with high development/marketing investment) starts to be outweighed by the margins on that content.
There seems to be little appetite at Sony to 'cut their cloth to suit their measure' - e.g. to pare back investment to match the current audience size. So I think their strategy - the play with Slim etc. - is about bringing the audience back to at least a sustainable if not profitable level.
Ultimo hombre
Banned
AndyD said:
Can you show me where BR is making money for Sony? Can you show me where Sony or even Panasonic is bragging about BR sales in their financial reporting? Can you tell me why you think Sony is at break even on their BR opportunity cost as of this time?
Every one of these fiscal report threads about Sony turns into people screaming "BUT BR!!!!" without any information what so ever to support this theory. Do you see Sony or Panasonic making money hand over fist because of BR? Do you see either bragging about it? Do you think that would NOT if it was the case?
I'm not just picking on you but plenty of others who simply have it in their head "it's all worth it for BLU RAY!"