thekiddfran
Member
hmmmm could this have been one of the reasons why Tretton left?
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Sony full year results - $1.25bn loss, PS operating loss $78m, PS sales 14.6m, 17m fc
- Thread starter zomgbbqftw
- Start date
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
What's the PS3 LTD so far? Also, not surprising since the PS3 hasn't had a price cut in years.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
Those are some nasty numbers.
PS3 and 360 sales are falling off a cliff because they're too goddamn expensive for almost a decade old hardware.
PS3 and 360 sales are falling off a cliff because they're too goddamn expensive for almost a decade old hardware.
What does that mean? lol
This is an excellent post on a thread about gloomy Sony's financial report. I hope Kaz really went that way with integrating their serivce into the Playstation.
shinra-bansho
Member
Through what brand of magic and pixie dust is that happening? PSP is dead in Japan now. PSV did ~1.3M last FY and lifetime has only done about 2.7M. But it's going to miraculously sell twice as much this year and almost as much as it's cumulative total in the current FY?
Even if it did do 2M units in Japan, which seems very unlikely, where does the other 1.5M come from.
:/
I think the PS division suffers a bit too much from the unexpected drop of PS3 sales. I think they were banking on a slower decrease. From this point of view I don't know if the 17 million for next year is realistic.
Plus they are bundling all their 1st party software with the PS4 and that doesn't help on the short term, putting most of the profitability pressure on PS+.
Plus they are bundling all their 1st party software with the PS4 and that doesn't help on the short term, putting most of the profitability pressure on PS+.
mercenar1e
Member
Why hasn't Sony cut the divisions that are bleeding money?
redblack85
Member
Forecast - extracted from pdf
Game & Network Services
"Sales are expected to increase primarily due to an increase in unit sales of PS4s and an increase in network services
revenue. Operating results are expected to improve primarily due to the impact of the increase in sales and a
decrease in costs related to the launch of the PS4"
Game & Network Services
"Sales are expected to increase primarily due to an increase in unit sales of PS4s and an increase in network services
revenue. Operating results are expected to improve primarily due to the impact of the increase in sales and a
decrease in costs related to the launch of the PS4"
Understand that financial statements are far from black and white. Depending on a company's goals you can show profit or decide to go in the red. In this case though certain sections are doing terrible and have been consistently doing so. There's no trickery there. I think it's much more likely you'll see poorly perfominh areas die off before you should be concerned about Sony disappearing. Remember they still have profitable areas so they'll continue to have presence in those like financial services and gaming.
Tldr; Gaming makes them money and PlayStation will continue regardless of what happens to Sony.
It is planning to spin off the TV business, and it is selling its PC business to Japan Industrial investment fund, so it is happening.
However, lot of the loss-making divisions are the heart of Sony, and losing them would create catastrophic job losses and a loss of face. Sony is a beloved brand in Japan.
I mean purely as financial decision, focusing on financial services would make most sense, but we would not recognize a Sony that made no electronics.
KillerMan91
Member
Eh. Gaming Division is doing fine. This is smallest loss ever for gaming division while launching a new console. Like they forecast the coming year will be easily profitable.
I figured it was never, ever coming here.
mercenar1e
Member
Tradition might be the one thing that brings down the company and the biggest problem that the electronic sector faces is the premium pricing attached to the mediocre designs of their products. They cannot compete with Samsung or anyone else with its current strategy.
A quick glance at the historical data seems to indicate it is a tough call between profit and a loss for the gaming division over its history:
The division also lost 2.8 billion in 2012, though it was then part of the other devices it seems.
2013 games division lost 8 million.
Obviously, PS4 is off to a very promising start so hopefully we will see some bumper years for the gaming division in the future!
Devilgunman
Member
Time to change where their heart belongs. I could see Sony downsizes into just SCE, Sony Picture and financial division in the next 5 years.
I don't think that's true anymore.
Imo, with Amazon TV already came out, Vita TV will be re-branded to Playstation TV and will be launched at the same time as PS Now.
TheSlySoul
Member
As I thought, the electronics are bringing it down. Video camera, laptops, and Vita are pathetic numbers for the year. Sony needs to get rid what is costing them money.
While that's regrettable, surely the PSP isn't that big an influence any more? Recent numbers put it on a few hundred K in Japan, and I doubt US/EU would be much better.
Sword Of Doom
Member
lol
AcademicSaucer
Member
the gaming division just lost money
i know
also this
A quick glance at the historical data seems to indicate it is a tough call between profit and a loss for the gaming division over its history:
The division also lost 2.8 billion in 2012, though it was then part of the other devices it seems.
2013 games division lost 8 million.
Obviously, PS4 is off to a very promising start so hopefully we will see some bumper years for the gaming division in the future!
I wonder how PS+ plays into the units of software. Is it regarded as a single item of software in itself (given it's about the same price), is each Plus release that's downloaded counted as an item of software, or is Plus completely distinct and the actual amount of software in the wild is much higher?
airmangataosenai
Member
Pretty terrible all around, PS4 is doing quite well but not enough to overcome the huge marketing push and R&D costs, in addition their software estimates for this year seem very conservative.
One interesting thing to note is that there's no guarantee, but it's possible that the Vita is over 10 million shipments now (Or certainly will surpass it some time this year), given what we can estimate for the PSP sales given it's performance in Japan this past year. Small victories, but it will probably surpass most of the other "Failed" handhelds including the Game Gear when all's said and done.
One interesting thing to note is that there's no guarantee, but it's possible that the Vita is over 10 million shipments now (Or certainly will surpass it some time this year), given what we can estimate for the PSP sales given it's performance in Japan this past year. Small victories, but it will probably surpass most of the other "Failed" handhelds including the Game Gear when all's said and done.
1st Course
Member
A quick glance at the historical data seems to indicate it is a tough call between profit and a loss for the gaming division over its history:
Next year they forecast 20B yen opt income. Improvement over this FY but wouldn't call it healthy.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
That sounds pretty horrible.
darkhunger
Member
Healthy? SCE's projected operating margins are 1.63% for next year. Average Consumer electronic companies have margins of around 9%, and that's not considering the fact that most of the Playstation divisions revenues come from software which should have margins closer to 20%.
Sony anything is far, far from healthy.
What's the endgame here if the Playstation (and I guess Financial Services) keep being reasonably stable but the rest of Sony keeps tanking? Spinning off into separate businesses without the liabilities of the rest of the company dragging them down?
As noted above Sony is already spinning off the TV business and selling the PC business. That should (hopefully) help.
Well, at least in TV's, they're not the ones with the mediocre designs. The issue is that consumers will buy absolute crap (some of the worst panels in cheap Samsungs) simply because they're cheap.
1st Course
Member
Yeah the only division doing really well is the finance division (17% opt margin)
Look in the MC threads. Its dead.
But they also have enormous liabilities and debt from what I can see from the financial results, and their credit rating is at "junk" status.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
I believe it's an expected loss with launches of new hardware.
Even without the PC software impairment of 6.2 billion yen, Game business would still have lost 1.9 billion yen.
Tired of rolling my eyes at Sony restructuring segments again.
I don't know what the hell "Network Services" they're including with Game are, but I know they''re not a good thing.
Game operating income
FY2013
without NS: -8.1 bn
with NS: -18.8 bn
negative impact of 10.7 billion yen
FY2012
without NS: +1.7 bn
with NS: -3.7 bn
negative impact of 5.4 billion yen
Some terribly lossy operation.
And the old style:
More charts will be difficult until Sony start reporting Game separately again. =\
Tired of rolling my eyes at Sony restructuring segments again.
I don't know what the hell "Network Services" they're including with Game are, but I know they''re not a good thing.
Game operating income
FY2013
without NS: -8.1 bn
with NS: -18.8 bn
negative impact of 10.7 billion yen
FY2012
without NS: +1.7 bn
with NS: -3.7 bn
negative impact of 5.4 billion yen
Some terribly lossy operation.
And the old style:
More charts will be difficult until Sony start reporting Game separately again. =\
sure, after you mate!
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Critically, the core business is actually marginally profitable and they decreased their net indebtedness by around $500m over the year and increased their revolving finance facilities to over $7bn (access to money if they need it, Moody's am cry). A lot of the losses over the last few years have been paper losses, asset impairments, DTA write downs and such. What that means is money either spent in the past or in the case of a DTA, the asset taken on for tax losses carried forwards, are now being written off as they are not going to get that money back. They spent the money, previously and now they won't get it back through their normal operations.
It is a huge difference to a company that actually loses money outright where their normal operations cost more than the revenue they generate from sales. Nintendo are in this category which is why their situation seems worse than Sony's and they don't really have a clear path to recovery like Sony (getting rid of the TV division) because their problems stem from deeper issues such as smartphones killing their handheld business and being stupidly uncompetitive in the home console market.
For all their current faults, Sony still have a profitable smartphones division, a hugely profitable financial services division, their content division (pictures+music) reliably makes $1bn per year in operating profit and their games division seems to be recovering very nicely after the PS3 caused so much turmoil. In essence if they jettison the TV division they would be pretty healthy and though they would hold a significant amount of debt but they would be profitable, more than enough to redeem bonds and meet their financial obligations. I guess the issue is that it has cost Sony $1.7bn to exit PCs and I expect the cost of exiting TVs would be double because all 30,000 employees would need paying off and the losses on current stock and contracts would need to be written off.
Essentially, though it is true they lose money, a lot of it is on paper, and the core business is generating cash.
The part of it that loses money (PC) just got chopped. The smartphones and tablets are profitable.
Those are some tiny tiny margins. PS4 is going to lead, but it seems that it won't be the money printer that Wii was. Hopefully it picks up with a larger install base due to licensing.
?? To my mind Samsung is absolutely dominating the TV space due to having better smart tv features than the competition. Once you go smart tv, you never go back to settop.
Oh, are they now? My bad then. I guess that one will look better next time.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Metallix87
Member
The average consumer wants lower prices because, to them, the differences in the products are negligible. Sony needs to either keep up with the market and design products that fit that desire, or abandon ship completely.
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