thekiddfran
Member
hmmmm could this have been one of the reasons why Tretton left?
PS3 is dying faster damn.... Anyway can we estrapolate PS4's numbers?
PS3 is dying faster damn.... Anyway can we estrapolate PS4's numbers?
The PS4 is a more important product for Sony than just gaming, it gets boxes under TVs that people interact with. The reason that Samsung and LG are going so hard into smart TV is because they have no product like the PS4 which is connected to the internet to serve consumers directly, TVs are now a conduit for other people's services rather than the profit centres they used to be, so monetising them through smart services is necessary. Smart TV has never really taken off though, those who are inclined to use advanced functionality of their TVs usually have cable or some other premium service and they are also likely to have a PS4 or XB1 as well.
Therein lies the importance of the PS4, it feeds into their media divisions and even smartphones with companion apps and off screen functionality. Once their IPTV service launches, that will increase profits not only within the game division, but also for SPE. If they do it right and bundle 6 months of IPTV with certain smartphones, it will also help their smartphones and tablets division and help differentiate their products from the myriad of competition.
The PS4 is not just about games, and also remember that the PS4 is sold at a loss, this will improve over time and once the hardware becomes profitable the division level operating profit will look a lot healthier.
Through what brand of magic and pixie dust is that happening? PSP is dead in Japan now. PSV did ~1.3M last FY and lifetime has only done about 2.7M. But it's going to miraculously sell twice as much this year and almost as much as it's cumulative total in the current FY?Japan alone will do 2-2,5 milions.
Understand that financial statements are far from black and white. Depending on a company's goals you can show profit or decide to go in the red. In this case though certain sections are doing terrible and have been consistently doing so. There's no trickery there. I think it's much more likely you'll see poorly perfominh areas die off before you should be concerned about Sony disappearing. Remember they still have profitable areas so they'll continue to have presence in those like financial services and gaming.how much longer can they last if these losses continue? genuine question.
Why hasn't Sony cut the divisions that are bleeding money?
hmmmm could this have been one of the reasons why Tretton left?
So what happened with the Vita TV in Japan? Did it sell enough for Sony to consider bringing it here?
However, lot of the loss-making divisions are the heart of Sony, and losing them would create catastrophic job losses and a loss of face. Sony is a beloved brand in Japan.
I mean purely as financial decision, focusing on financial services would make most sense, but we would not recognize a Sony that made no electronics.
Understand that financial statements are far from black and white. Depending on a company's goals you can show profit or decide to go in the red. In this case though certain sections are doing terrible and have been consistently doing so. There's no trickery there. I think it's much more likely you'll see poorly perfominh areas die off before you should be concerned about Sony disappearing. Remember they still have profitable areas so they'll continue to have presence in those like financial services and gaming.
Tldr; Gaming makes them money and PlayStation will continue regardless of what happens to Sony.
However, lot of the loss-making divisions are the heart of Sony.
Sony is a beloved brand in Japan.
So what happened with the Vita TV in Japan? Did it sell enough for Sony to consider bringing it here?
Still not giving separate numbers for the Vita, huh.
Is losing a billion good or bad?
Why hasn't Sony cut the divisions that are bleeding money?
A quick glance at the historical data seems to indicate it is a tough call between profit and a loss for the gaming division over its history:
The division also lost 2.8 billion in 2012, though it was then part of the other devices it seems.
2013 games division lost 8 million.
Obviously, PS4 is off to a very promising start so hopefully we will see some bumper years for the gaming division in the future!
The positive note here is the software : 374 millions ? Damn, if I have counted correctly, Nintendo sold around 122 millions games on DS+3DS+Wii+Wii U for the same fiscal year. Too bad Microsoft doesn't reveal their numbers for software.
A quick glance at the historical data seems to indicate it is a tough call between profit and a loss for the gaming division over its history:
A quick glance at the historical data seems to indicate it is a tough call between profit and a loss for the gaming division over its history:
http://i.imgur.com/kYbJp.png[/ IMG]
[URL="http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-05-10-sony-playstation-division-suffers-full-year-USD2-8bn-loss"]The division also lost 2.8 billion in 2012[/URL], though it was then part of the other devices it seems.
[URL="http://www.vg247.com/2013/10/31/sony-financials-game-business-loses-8-million-projections-slashed/"]2013 games division lost 8 million[/URL].
Obviously, PS4 is off to a very promising start so hopefully we will see some bumper years for the gaming division in the future![/QUOTE]
We have accurate figures now:
2011/12 - 29bn yen operating profit.
2012/13 - 1.7bn yen operating profit.
2013/14 - (8.1bn) yen operating loss.
Sony have restated some of their historical obfuscations. That graph can be reasonably updated now with these figures as they are, to my knowledge, accurate and represent the games+SEN division only.
Time to change where their heart belongs. I could see Sony downsizes into just SCE, Sony Picture and financial division in the next 5 years.
Healthy? SCE's projected operating margins are 1.63% for next year. Average Consumer electronic companies have margins of around 9%, and that's not considering the fact that most of the Playstation divisions revenues come from software which should have margins closer to 20%.Completely irrelevant. 1) everyone recognizes that Sony as a whole has been teetering on the edge for quite some time 2) Kaz's changes also have very clear long term benefits, and represents a clear cut strategy 3) Playstation is very healthy and doesn't look like the brand is disappearing anytime soon
The PS4 is a more important product for Sony than just gaming, it gets boxes under TVs that people interact with. The reason that Samsung and LG are going so hard into smart TV is because they have no product like the PS4 which is connected to the internet to serve consumers directly, TVs are now a conduit for other people's services rather than the profit centres they used to be, so monetising them through smart services is necessary. Smart TV has never really taken off though, those who are inclined to use advanced functionality of their TVs usually have cable or some other premium service and they are also likely to have a PS4 or XB1 as well.
Therein lies the importance of the PS4, it feeds into their media divisions and even smartphones with companion apps and off screen functionality. Once their IPTV service launches, that will increase profits not only within the game division, but also for SPE. If they do it right and bundle 6 months of IPTV with certain smartphones, it will also help their smartphones and tablets division and help differentiate their products from the myriad of competition.
The PS4 is not just about games, and also remember that the PS4 is sold at a loss, this will improve over time and once the hardware becomes profitable the division level operating profit will look a lot healthier.
What's the endgame here if the Playstation (and I guess Financial Services) keep being reasonably stable but the rest of Sony keeps tanking? Spinning off into separate businesses without the liabilities of the rest of the company dragging them down?
Tradition might be the one thing that brings down the company and the biggest problem that the electronic sector faces is the premium pricing attached to the mediocre designs of their products. They cannot compete with Samsung or anyone else with its current strategy.
Healthy? SCE's projected operating margins are 1.63% for next year. Average Consumer electronic companies have margins of around 9%, and that's not considering the fact that most of the Playstation divisions revenues come from software which should have margins closer to 20%.
Sony anything is far, far from healthy.
So what happened with the Vita TV in Japan? Did it sell enough for Sony to consider bringing it here?
Feels like Sony has $8 left in the bank.
Wow. I thought for sure they would at least break even with all the sold PS4s.
Look in the MC threads. Its dead.
Time to buy Sony stocks.
I don't understand how a company can keep on going after so many years of losing money
They should get rid of the mobile division. It's a lost cause and bleeding money.
?? To my mind Samsung is absolutely dominating the TV space due to having better smart tv features than the competition. Once you go smart tv, you never go back to settop.Smart TV has never really taken off though, those who are inclined to use advanced functionality of their TVs usually have cable or some other premium service and they are also likely to have a PS4 or XB1 as well.
The part of it that loses money (PC) just got chopped. The smartphones and tablets are profitable.
I don't know what the hell "Network Services" they're including with Game are, but I know they''re not a good thing.
Game operating income
FY2013
without NS: -8.1 bn
with NS: -18.8 bn
negative impact of 10.7 billion yen
FY2012
without NS: +1.7 bn
with NS: -3.7 bn
negative impact of 5.4 billion yen
Some terribly lossy operation.
http://abload.de/img/sony_game_q_2014xfjbh.png[/I MG]
[IMG]http://abload.de/img/sony_game_2014_new20wjfm.png[/ IMG]
And the old style:
[IMG]http://abload.de/img/sony_game_2014glyu4.png[/ IMG]
More charts will be difficult until Sony start reporting Game separately again. =\[/QUOTE]
Network Services is SEN/PSN, a core part of the games business. It is all part and parcel of delivering games content. PS Now investment will be what is causing the losses for that segment. It should be included for the purposes of the graph as PS+ sub fees are probably recorded in that division.
Well, at least in TV's, they're not the ones with the mediocre designs. The issue is that consumers will buy absolute crap (some of the worst panels in cheap Samsungs) simply because they're cheap.