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[Opiate]

As discussed earlier..divisions are being marshalled into two new umbrella groups,

Those "umbrella groups" are called "divisions." The finances of the Vaio, Walkman, and Games groups will be reported in aggregate. That is the technical definition of a corporate division. The Games Division no longer exists. It has been eliminated.

0but they remain as indivdual divisions, they're not being 'eliminated'.

No.

As the PR states, Kaz is still President and Group CEO of SCE in addition to his new role. If they were merging divisions that would seem unnecessary.

SCE is not a division. It is a corporate subsidiary.

And actually, politically within Sony this is good news for SCE. PSN 'won' in terms of the competing network strategies within Sony, and Stringer's basically forcing the other divisions to fall under its banner. Kaz is also being promoted to Executive Vice President at Sony overall, which increases his influence further.

This is absolutely true, and as I stated earlier, should be repeated multiple times in this thread just to prevent hysteria.

 

[Rapping Granny]

sounds good.

As long as you keep funding Guerilla to make games then fine by me.

OMG Killzone SO FUCKING AWESOME!!!

 

[BlueTsunami]

Year of PS3

 

[Rapping Granny]

Year of PS3

FUCKING RIGHT SON!

 

[Rolf NB]

:-O more disheartening news for the fans.

More like more fodder for people like you.

 

[WinFonda]

Those "umbrella groups" are called "divisions." The finances of the Vaio, Walkman, and Games groups will be reported in aggregate. That is the technical definition of a corporate division. The Games Division no longer exists. It has been eliminated.



No.



SCE is not a division. It is a corporate subsidiary.



This is absolutely true, and as I stated earlier, should be repeated multiple times in this thread just to prevent hysteria.

It'd be nice if you'd spend less time justifying the way you worded your topic and instead used that effort to correct those who are apparently being mislead because of it.

 

[Opiate]

What GoFreak has said is quite correct: this represents a promotion of sorts for SCE within Sony, as all of the other devices will be routed through the Playstation Network now. Whereas before Sony had several competing networking operations.

It is entirely possible that this move signals a strengthening of the Playstation brand, as Sony bets even harder on the brand as its entertainment hub.

 

[Opiate]

It'd be nice if you'd spend less time justifying the way you worded your topic and instead used that effort to correct those who are apparently being mislead because of it.

I have done so repeatedly, and put a full explanation, in bold font, as the first sentence of the first post of this thread. Please don't be obtuse.

 

[Diablohead]

I will buy a Playwalkmanstation 3.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

Time will tell on this. Going to take a while to see if this was a good move, right now it appears to be a positive but of course people mistake it as them phasing out games division. Really its going to benefit so much.

 

[gofreak]

SCE is not a division. It is a corporate subsidiary.

SCE has always been a subsidiary. Whether it's a subsidiary of this division/group or of Sony Corp, it doesn't really matter. This is semantics - as an entity, it appears to remain seperate, as I'm sure Vaio, Walkman etc. do. If they were all being merged into one single blob, I'm not sure why Kaz would be maintaining two positions - one in the 'big group' and his current role with SCE. That would seem redundant, no?

The thread title is quite misleading, the games division - as in SCE - hasn't gone anywhere, and hiding behind semantics doesn't change that

 

[Trailblazer]

Year of PS3

WRONG!!!

Year of PSN

This is more then likely be the move that centralizes PSN. Which is probably going to tie all Sony's different products together. I bet we will eventually see PSN turn into Sony's main media network and become a one stop shop for content for most of Sony products.

 

[Opiate]

SCE has always been a subsidiary. Whether it's a subsidiary of this division/group or of Sony Corp, it doesn't really matter. This is semantics

It is absolutely semantics, Gofreak, which is why I've spent so many posts thus far trying to make it clear why my wording was correct. I understand that I"m one of the more business-minded members here on GAF, so to me, the actual definition of the word "division" is clear. To someone less concerned with the economic side of things, it's apparent that "division" seems to mean "the company" or "the product," which is not the case.

The thread title is quite misleading, the games division - as in SCE - hasn't gone anywhere

No, no no! SCE is not the Games Division. They are two separate things. Please stop confusing them!

Division
Subsidiary

The Games Division was a Division, and it no longer exists. Sony Computer Entertainment was a subsidiary, and not only does it exist, but it may be stronger than ever.

Does this make it clear for everyone?

 

[navanman]

WRONG!!!

Year of PSN

This is more then likely be the move that centralizes PSN. Which is probably going to tie all Sony's different products together. I bet we will eventually see PSN turn into Sony's main media network and become a one stop shop for content for most of Sony products.

Ding ding ding. Your spot on, IMO. PSN is going to be integrated now into all future Sony CE devices.
IMO, it may get a re-branding for non SCE devices from PSN to "Sony Networks" or the like.

 

[StuBurns]

So what did the Game Division do?
If they are a separate thing from SCE.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Interesting. It's basically the same move Microsoft made when they put the Xbox division in the H&E division, and for the same reasons (synergies, bury the bottom line).

 

[sullytao]

almost choked thanks to the first 4 words of the title. Thankfully it doesn't really affect anything game wise i.e. downscaling of that part of Sony.

 

[gofreak]

o, no no! SCE is not the Games Division. They are two separate things. Please stop confusing them!

Division
Subsidiary

The Games Division was a Division, and it no longer exists. Sony Computer Entertainment was a subsidiary, and not only does it exist, but it may be stronger than ever.

Does this make it clear for everyone?

Not really..because as far as we know, SCE is the exact same as it was yesterday - be it 'division' or 'subsidiary' as per those wiki definitions (it doesn't really matter which). There was never a games division seperate from SCE that's now been rid of. When people talked about Sony's games division they meant SCE, and vice versa, there was no distinction between them. Or can someone show me if there was a games division in Sony seperate to SCE?

Not that any of this REALLY matters.. given that SCE is basically being put in the driving seat of this new group, I'd be more concerned about what it meant if I were typing on a Vaio or Walkman message board.. I'm sure it'll mean good things for them though, I think connecting them all together via PSN is the right way to go.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

So.... sort of similar setup to MS then, with Xbox coming under the E&ED division.

 

[StuBurns]

Not really..because as far as we know, SCE is the exact same as it was yesterday - be it 'division' or 'subsidiary' as per those wiki definitions (it doesn't really matter which). There was never a games division seperate from SCE that's now been rid of. When people talked about Sony's games division they meant SCE, and vice versa, there was no distinction between them. Or can someone show me if there was a games division in Sony seperate to SCE?

Not that any of this REALLY matters.. given that SCE is basically being put in the driving seat of this new group, I'd be more concerned about what it meant if I were typing on a Vaio or Walkman message board.. I'm sure it'll mean good things for them though, I think connecting them all together via PSN is the right way to go.

Sony Online Entertainment is completely separate from SCE.

Not sure if that's what you mean.

I really don't understand what's happened here. If Sony Computer Entertainment still exists, I have no idea what the Sony Game Devision was, and what's happened to them. I know they don't make games though, because SCE and SOE are the only source of Sony games.

 

[TunaLover]

never mind

 

[Opiate]

Not really..because as far as we know, SCE is the exact same as it was yesterday - be it 'division' or 'subsidiary' as per those wiki definitions (it doesn't really matter which). There was never a games division seperate from SCE that's now been rid of.

Yes there was. Yes there was! "Games" was a division within Sony. The financials for that division can be viewed here:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/08q3_sony.pdf

It is listed under "Game" starting on page 4. Other divisions include "Pictures" and "Financial Services."

When people talked about Sony's games division they meant SCE, and vice versa, there was no distinction between them.

Who are those people when you say, "people?" Certainly not I. They are not the same. These "people" you talk about were wrong.

Or can someone show me if there was a games division in Sony seperate to SCE?

I just did. Also, for a time, SCE and SOE were two separate subsidiaries both under the gaming division, but were recently merged.

If SCE and "Games Division" were simply the same thing, then what was SOE? Did it simply not exist? This distinction in terminology is important. It isn't something economists made up just for the fun of it. It serves a purpose.

 

[Forsete]

Im pretty sure SOE was under Pictures before joining SCE?

 

[StuBurns]

If SCE and "Games Division" were simply the same thing, then what was SOE? Did it simply not exist? This distinction in terminology is important. It isn't something economists made up just for the fun of it. It serves a purpose.

So Sony Computer Entertainment, and Sony Online Entertainment are the Sony Game Division? And that has been eliminated, SCE has merged with other sectors of Sony? So what has happened to SOE?

 

[fortified_concept]

So wait, SCE isn't Games Division and SCE isn't affected by this?


My God Sony has the most confusing corporate structure.

edit: OR is SCE part of the Gaming Division? This is ridiculous :lol

 

[Forsete]

So Sony Computer Entertainment, and Sony Online Entertainment are the Sony Game Division? And that has been eliminated, SCE has merged with other sectors of Sony? So what has happened to SOE?

SOE has joined SCE. They (SOE) used to be under Sony Pictures.

fortified_concept: Just read what gofreak writes. Its not confusing at all.

 

[pseudocaesar]

Sony PSphone here we come.

 

[K' Dash]

Secret PS3 game revealed: Sony Walkman Singalong 2009.

Seriously, this is quite interesting. As our neat little consoles become the household entertainment hubs of the future, it is entirely appropriate that the gaming division be rolled into the same house as the Vaio and other networked products. There shouldn`t be a ``Playstation`` division because the Playstation as a standalone gaming device will not exist after this generation.

Sony is FINALLY getting around to it: better integrating the resources and knowledge among the various product centers in the company. Many of Sony`s problems have come from each product existing in its own silo without any connection to the Company`s broader goals. Unfortunately for Stringer it took the worst recession in history to give him the power to finally implement these changes.

This merger makes perfect sense from a financial point of view, among other benefits, integrating teams from those other division for fresh new ideas and support for example.

Interesting and good.

 

[gofreak]

Sony Online Entertainment is completely separate from SCE.

Not sure if that's what you mean.

I really don't understand what's happened here. If Sony Computer Entertainment still exists, I have no idea what the Sony Game Devision was, and what's happened to them. I know they don't make games though, because SCE and SOE are the only source of Sony games.

No, I don't mean SOE

He was suggesting there was a games division distinct from SCE, as an entity within Sony, I think, and that now it's gone..but SCE isn't..

But I think whatever SCE is - division, subsidiary, whatever - it's the same now as it was then, at least from an operational POV.

If you were to map out Sony's new structure like a tree, I don't think you'd stop once you got to these two new groups, basically. Vaio, Walkman, SCE etc. would be nodes underneath this new network group, I don't think they'd be blobbed together into one 'network group' node. Maybe for financial reporting purposes they will be - maybe they'll all report together as one - although even that isn't clear in the PR as far as I can see. But operationally, I think they'll still be regarded as different entities. If they were all going to be merged into one blob, it would seem funny to still refer to SCE as a seperate entity, and for Kaz to retain his position there. I'm not sure if having different entities fall under one umbrella group makes them anymore 'merged' than having them fall under Sony Corp did (which is now the 'umbrella over the umbrellas' so to speak).

This is a new management structure to give the authority to 'someone' (in this case Kaz) to enforce more unified strategies wrt networking etc. The nature of each entity within sony doesn't seem to be changing, as far as I can see from this PR anyway, but the structure they slot into has changed.

 

[Opiate]

So wait, SCE isn't Games Division and SCE isn't affected by this?


My God Sony has the most confusing corporate structure.

That's not confusing at all. Why is this blowing up in my face? This is, at best, Econ 201.

A Division is not a corporate entity. It is an abstract concept, a rebranding, often done both for commercial and accounting purposes.

A subsidiary is a legitimate corporate entity that is simply ancillary to a large one.

Thus, it is entirely possible for a division to cease to exist without affecting the actual subsidiaries that it accounted for.

 

[consoul]

Sony eliminates Games Division
OMG WTF ONOEZ!1 *panic*

Sony merges Gaming, Computer and Mobile Media groups
Um... OK. Good. *shrug*


Wording. It's amazing, isn't it?

 

[Opiate]

But I think whatever SCE is - division, subsidiary, whatever

This is where we're parting ways here, gofreak. That is a very important distinction. Economics is a science, albeit a soft one. Terminology is not happenstance. If you think the words "mad" and "upset" mean the same thing, I suppose that's not a big deal (although you'd still be wrong). In science, however, that's not really acceptable. It'd be like swapping the words "Genus" and "subfamily." Those are two terms with precise biological definitions and they cannot be acceptably interchanged.

it's the same now as it was then, at least from an operational POV.

Probably not exactly the same, but quite close. This will likely foster greater interaction between previously competing entities. And as you stated, could likely end up being good news for SCE, not bad.

 

[somuchwater]

That's not confusing at all. Why is this blowing up in my face? This is, at best, Econ 201.

A Division is not a corporate entity. It is an abstract concept, a rebranding, often done both for commercial and accounting purposes.

A subsidiary is a legitimate corporate entity that is simply ancillary to a large one.

Thus, it is entirely possible for a division to cease to exist without affecting the actual subsidiaries that it accounted for.

Please accept my deepest apologies. All those years wasted studying literature and philosophy when I could have been learning the difference between a division and a subsidiary. Thank you for paying such fastidious attention to detail and then getting annoyed when other people - who don't and have no reason to give a fuck about such subtleties - aren't entirely grateful for your detail-oriented nature.

 

[Nemo]

We had this thread 12 hours ago.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=353717&highlight=walkman

And already we're seeing the power of a thread title. Goddamn sensationalism.

 

[Blast Processing]

Anyone truly made to believe Sony was backing out of gaming by the thread title deserves to have a few seconds of their lives wasted coming to understand the reality of the situation here.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

A Division is not a corporate entity. It is an abstract concept, a rebranding, often done both for commercial and accounting purposes.

Sometimes they are though. LucasArts and ILM, for example, are often considered divisions of LucasFilm, despite them being separate corporate subsidiaries. Granted, this may be likely to just usage of the term in an informal manner so if you want to get super anal about the semantics go ahead.

 

[WinFonda]

I have done so repeatedly, and put a full explanation, in bold font, as the first sentence of the first post of this thread. Please don't be obtuse.

I get that, but your point of argument seems to be, "It's factually and definitively correct therefore it is fine, and/or not misleading" but surely you acknowledge that the topic alone is misleading otherwise you wouldn't have a bolded note in your OP. The problem arises when people read the topic title and then they hit the post reply button. I'm not being obtuse, I am simply witnessing a thread that has been completely derailed in discussion over petty semantics.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Secret PS3 game revealed: Sony Walkman Singalong 2009.

Seriously, this is quite interesting. As our neat little consoles become the household entertainment hubs of the future, it is entirely appropriate that the gaming division be rolled into the same house as the Vaio and other networked products. There shouldn`t be a ``Playstation`` division because the Playstation as a standalone gaming device will not exist after this generation.

Sony is FINALLY getting around to it: better integrating the resources and knowledge among the various product centers in the company. Many of Sony`s problems have come from each product existing in its own silo without any connection to the Company`s broader goals. Unfortunately for Stringer it took the worst recession in history to give him the power to finally implement these changes.

this man is wise.

 

[Opiate]

Please accept my deepest apologies. All those years wasted studying literature and philosophy when I could have been learning the difference between a division and a subsidiary. Thank you for paying such fastidious attention to detail and then getting annoyed when other people - who don't and have no reason to give a fuck about such subtleties - aren't entirely grateful for your detail-oriented nature.

Please. First of all, I'm entirely versed in Dostoevsky, Deleuze and Foucault. Understanding Economics does not preclude the understanding of other disciplines.

Second, and more importantly, I'm certainly not angry that people are confused. That's absolutely fine, and I have no problem explaining things to people. What I do mind, however, are the hostile reactions I've seen in this thread. Not understanding something is completely fine, but it is not justification for rudeness (and for the record, GoFreak wasn't rude. That isn't who I am referring to. I was, however, exasperated by the time GoFreak did enter the thread, and for that I apologize, GoFreak. You weren't culpable).

 

[StuBurns]

Sometimes they are though. LucasArts and ILM, for example, are often considered divisions of LucasFilm, despite them being separate corporate subsidiaries. Granted, this may be likely to just usage of the term in an informal manner so if you want to get super anal about the semantics go ahead.

Yep, Pixar is another example.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

How is this a bad thing?

My Sony Vaio is 6 years old and kicking like I bought it yesterday.

If anything, I would love to see Sony share resources with the Vaio so I can have a future Vaio laptop that can play PS1 and PS2 games

 

[Uncle]

Please accept my deepest apologies. All those years wasted studying literature and philosophy when I could have been learning the difference between a division and a subsidiary. Thank you for paying such fastidious attention to detail and then getting annoyed when other people - who don't and have no reason to give a fuck about such subtleties - aren't entirely grateful for your detail-oriented nature.

I bet you took some drama classes too.

 

[Ikael]

I know that this does NOT means that Sony is getting out of the videogame arena, but this tread is offering just a little glimpse of the histeria that such a thing would bring to these boards and it is frightening.

 

[D4Danger]

Sony eliminates Games Division
OMG WTF ONOEZ!1 *panic*

That's not the title of the thread.

Sony merges Gaming, Computer and Mobile Media groups
Um... OK. Good. *shrug*

Sony eliminates Games Division, merges SCE with Vaio and Walkman sectors

Wording. It's amazing, isn't it?

Not really sure what your point is?

 

[Mamesj]

Killzone 2 launch day must be going well.

 

[somuchwater]

Please. First of all, I'm entirely versed in Dostoevsky, Deleuze and Foucault. Understanding Economics does not preclude the understanding of other disciplines.

Second, and more importantly, I'm certainly not angry that people are confused. That's absolutely fine, and I have no problem explaining things to people. What I do mind, however, are the hostile reactions I've seen in this thread. Not understanding something is completely fine, but it is not justification for rudeness (and for the record, GoFreak wasn't rude. That isn't who I am referring to. I was, however, exasperated by the time GoFreak did enter the thread, and for that I apologize, GoFreak. You weren't culpable).

Okay fine, I shouldn't have been rude. Apologies. I just think you're missing the dynamics of the situation. I think the distinction you're making b/w things isn't important enough to most people so it seems as if you're being misleading even when you don't mean to be. But now I'm turning into one of those people who argues on the internet for no reason.

So let's do some rhizomatic readings of videogames instead! Yaaay!

 

[fortified_concept]

Please. First of all, I'm entirely versed in Dostoevsky, Deleuze and Foucault. Understanding Economics does not preclude the understanding of other disciplines.

Second, and more importantly, I'm certainly not angry that people are confused. That's absolutely fine, and I have no problem explaining things to people. What I do mind, however, are the hostile reactions I've seen in this thread. Not understanding something is completely fine, but it is not justification for rudeness (and for the record, GoFreak wasn't rude. That isn't who I am referring to. I was, however, exasperated by the time GoFreak did enter the thread, and for that I apologize, GoFreak. You weren't culpable).

Nah the only people who are being rude to you are people annoyed with the misleading thread title. The rest of us are just confused. So SCE is unaffected even though it's part of the Gaming Division. Did I get it right this time?

 

[Mamesj]

I bet you took some drama classes too.

:lol

 

[Metal Gear?!]

 

[Opiate]

I get that, but your point of argument seems to be, "It's factually and definitively correct therefore it is fine, and/or not misleading" but surely you acknowledge that the topic alone is misleading otherwise you wouldn't have a bolded note in your OP.

It may be misleading for people who are not Economically literate. The title is correct, but I assume less versed individuals would make the precise mistake GoFreak did (that is, Division = Company), so I made sure to correct that misapprehension immediately. I had even considered a title along the lines of "Sony Games Division eliminated, but Divisions are not Companies," but decided it was too lengthy and convoluted.

The problem arises when people read the topic title and then they hit the post reply button. I'm not being obtuse, I am simply witnessing a thread that has been completely derailed in discussion over petty semantics.

Semantics in Economics aren't petty. They're very important.

I expected most people would understand these distinctions, but apparently I was mistaken. That's not really intended to be an insult: I have very high esteem for most of the posters on this forum. I simply assumed that most of the intelligent people here would know what a "Division" is: not just in the general sense of "a part of a company," but the actual, legitimate definition.

And again, I don't mind explaining things to people who may be confused. My exasperation comes from the hostility present in the thread. It's much harder to feel magnanimous when the cause of hostility is a misunderstanding on their part.