Support NeoGAF

[gofreak]

Yep, the PS3 is selling very well in Europe.I am 100% sure they are pass 1 million.

It's not a question of whether they're past 1m..but whether they sold 1m more than 360 in 07 there. It's quite possible. Judging by these numbers and previous comment out of SCEE, it seems like they've sold a lot there.

 

[Majmun]

Impressive!

 

[Wollan]

Here's the slide:

 

[Barkley's Justice]

where's q4 muhfuckas??!

 

[Big-E]

where's q4 muhfuckas??!

Q4 ain't over yet.

 

[Elios83]

where's q4 muhfuckas??!

:lol Q4 results (January-March) are made public in April :lol
But with them there's something more interesting, the forecast for the full FY08.

 

[Cruzader]

WOW..all i can say is WOW!!

Sony FTW and the haters can suck it!:lol

 

[gofreak]

where's q4 muhfuckas??!

Calendar Q4 was FYQ3 for Sony. FYQ4 is Jan-Mar.

 

[Raistlin]

It's how much the company is worth on the free market. Regardless, MS are much bigger in terms of revenue and profit as well. Nintendo are bigger in terms of profit.

Typically, people use revenue when talking about things like this. In terms of who is the biggest video game maker, then I'm pretty sure it would be Sony (when comparing the games divisions).

 

[Weisheit]

Typically, people use revenue when talking about things like this. In terms of who is the biggest video game maker, then I'm pretty sure it would be Sony (when comparing the games divisions).

Really? I always thought people used userbase when comparing the games divisions.

 

[Durante]

+391% software is a good start. Another 300% in 08 and PS3 might actually recover!

 

[Raistlin]

Really? I always thought people used userbase when comparing the games divisions

I'm referring to the financial, etc. media.


Obviously here we go by userbase. Though even with that, Sony ends up winning in terms of userbase for active platforms.

 

[Weisheit]

I'm referring to the financial, etc. media.


Obviously here we go by userbase. Though even with that, Sony ends up winning in terms of userbase for active platforms.

:lol That sounds an awful lot like GC'ers back in the day.

 

[WinFonda]

PS1 and PS2 have sold over 200 million units in the past decade... if that doesn't qualify them as 'largest' I'm not sure what does.

 

[Tom Penny]

How long did it take for Xbox 1 and X360 to turn a profit?

 

[sakuragi]

:lol That sounds an awful lot like GC'ers back in the day.

The PS2 is still alive and kicking. Its software sales speak for its self. So if you want to determine which company is bigger based on userbase, then Sony wins hands down.

 

[dfyb]

How long before Xbox 1 and X360 turned a profit?

xbox1 had one profitable quarter (halo 2 launch) and then it went back to losing money. 360 is on it's second profitable quarter now, but we'll see if it lasts. it's also worth noting that microsoft's entertainment division also includes zune products.

 

[avaya]

It's how much the company is worth on the free market. Regardless, MS are much bigger in terms of revenue and profit as well. Nintendo are bigger in terms of profit.

Sony has ~$75bn in revenues. Might touch $80bn this year. This is well beyond Microsoft (although Microsoft might get closer this year due to Vista). The CE business is low-margin, high sales where 5% is considered a very good profit margin. Canon has fronted the Japanese CEs with margins of 15% in recent years. Microsoft's business and monopoly allows margins of 33% and above.

The free market value of a company is based on a secondary market expectation of future free cash flows (essentially profit + dividends but not quite). That metric is fickle and only useful when talking about available share capital to acquire another company in a takeover situation via a share-swap and in analysing the inherent profitability/growth propsects of a company. The very fact that the secondary market fails to correctly incorporate all information is the reason why people can make profit on the shares.

Using such numbers Apple is larger than Time-Warner, NewsCorp, Disney and IBM. Nintendo is larger than Matsushita, Sony, Hitachi and Toshiba which of course is a ridiculous thing to say. Market cap is a misleading metric.

 

[Tom Penny]

xbox1 had one profitable quarter (halo 2 launch) and then it went back to losing money. 360 is on it's second profitable quarter now, but we'll see if it lasts. it's also worth noting that microsoft's entertainment division also includes zune products.

1 out of it's whole lifecycle. That makes no sense.

 

[Zophar]

1 out of it's whole lifecycle. That makes no sense.

It's the truth.

 

[Tom Penny]

It's the truth.

So theoretically the gaming division still hasn't made any money yet even with them now making "profit".

 

[ascii42]

:lol That sounds an awful lot like GC'ers back in the day.

Except the N64 was dead before the GameCube even came out.
I guess GameBoy accounts for a lot of users, though.

 

[Raist]

So theoretically the gaming division still hasn't made any money yet even with them now making "profit".

It's not a theory, it's a fact. The original xbox has been a fucking money sinkhole

edit : http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111003&highlight=june+2007

 

[Weisheit]

The PS2 is still alive and kicking. Its software sales speak for its self. So if you want to determine which company is bigger based on userbase, then Sony wins hands down.

Even if you wanna use the active consoles argument, it's only a matter of time before this changes, and does so in a very big way. The PS2 will not last forever.

Except the N64 was dead before the GameCube even came out.
I guess GameBoy accounts for a lot of users, though.

That's what I was referring to.

 

[avaya]

It's not a theory, it's a fact. The original xbox has been a fucking money sinkhole

edit : http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111003&highlight=june+2007

The Xbox might have made a profit in 2005, the 360 launch bludgeoned H&E into the red.

 

[Raist]

The Xbox might have made a profit in 2005, the 360 launch bludgeoned H&E into the red.

Yeah, sure, but I mean, overall, it's been quite a disaster. Of course, they can totally afford it.

 

[Shepherd]

So does this mean that more PS3's were sold in its first year than 360's? And in 07?

They shipped 90,000 more.

PS3 10.49M
360 10.40M

 

[sakuragi]

Even if you wanna use the active consoles argument, it's only a matter of time before this changes, and does so in a very big way. The PS2 will not last forever.

Well obviously it wont last forever, but it has yet to reach the magical $99 price point and its still selling like crazy. It will no doubt die some day, but all signs point to later rather than sooner. Besides, we are talking about NOW, not the future. So the statement that Sony is the biggest game company still holds true if it was determined by the number of current active userbase.

 

[kaching]

Does the earnings report provide any reckoning for software sales, retail vs. download? It would be interesting to see that kind of distinction, esp. for something like the PSP in the coming year with the PC Store coming online now.

 

[Tom Penny]

It's not a theory, it's a fact. The original xbox has been a fucking money sinkhole

edit : http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111003&highlight=june+2007

So when are they going to recoup the Xbox1 disaster money 2015? I know they have money to blow but that amount is no joke.

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

PS1 and PS2 have sold over 200 million units in the past decade... if that doesn't qualify them as 'largest' I'm not sure what does.

It does, in the past decade. That was then, this is now.

 

[Salazar]

That was then, this is now.

Phil Collins lyrics. Lovely.

 

[Firewire]

It does, in the past decade. That was then, this is now.

So whats sold over 200 million units in the now?

 

[Philthy]

So when are they going to recoup the Xbox1 disaster money 2015? I know they have money to blow but that amount is no joke.

Many years from now. They are a bit forced as a company to expand their products and services. From the XBox division, you can start to see the technologies spreading to their other products (Windows Live, etc), and it can then be slowly written off as other products begin to sell that use these technologies and ideas that they've gained from elsewhere. At least that's what I've been reading elsewhere. It might seem like a total waste, and it might be, but they are recouping it in other ways that aren't directly related. Or at least, trying to.

 

[turtle553]

So when are they going to recoup the Xbox1 disaster money 2015? I know they have money to blow but that amount is no joke.

They don't have to recoup that money lost. That money is gone and has already been accounted for in lower previous earnings. All that matters now is current profits.

 

[Raistlin]

:lol That sounds an awful lot like GC'ers back in the day.

These are businesses ... so revenue is revenue.

That said, its a bit of a different story when counting everything actually puts you to number one. The same could not be said for Nintendo last gen. Similarly, the fact that PS3 is actually in second place world-wide for 'next gen' systems (w/ regards to current sale rates, and will be for LTD later this year), it a bit different compared to the GC situation

 

[Raistlin]

1 out of it's whole lifecycle. That makes no sense.

Considering most put MS's write-off of the original X-box at ~5-6 BILLION ... it makes perfect sense.

So theoretically the gaming division still hasn't made any money yet even with them now making "profit".

There isn't anything theoretical about it. That's the situation.

The X-box family has actually been 'bad business' for MS. They have lost several billion dollars on it.

 

[Quazar]

So...are we on track to see all consoles sell 40M units this gen? Obviously Wii will.

 

[HK-47]

So...are we on track to see all consoles sell 40M units this gen? Obviously Wii will.

No

 

[Phoenix Down]

GREAT JOB SONY! I will forever give thanks like a pilgrim

 

[Raistlin]

So...are we on track to see all consoles sell 40M units this gen? Obviously Wii will.

I'd suspect it will be hard for the 360 to do this based on their performance outside of the West.

 

[Firewire]

Just out of curiosity how many Xbox's were sold?

I heard from low 20-22 million to 26 million.

 

[HK-47]

I'd suspect it will be hard for the 360 to do this based on their performance outside of the West.

Or the PS3

 

[Bending_Unit_22]

So whats sold over 200 million units in the now?

Nothing. In fact, unless I'm mistaken nothing has ever sold 200 million in its now.

 

[Anerythristic]

I'd suspect it will be hard for the 360 to do this based on their performance outside of the West.

Nahh, I think it will do it, it definetly has a good chance, your just clouded by your fanboyism.

 

[Firewire]

Nothing. In fact, unless I'm mistaken nothing has ever sold 200 million in its now.

So then whats sold over 120 million in the now?

 

[HK-47]

So then whats sold over 120 million in the now?

Nothing. PS2 sold 120 over a period 6-7 years. Have any of these systems been out that long?

 

[Anerythristic]

Nothing. PS2 sold 120 over a period 6-7 years. Have any of these systems been out that long?

I always wonder what the actual sell through was on that console. With all of those older consoles you have to figure in hardware updates, lost, stolen and broken re - buys when figuring out unique in home PS2's.

Erm... In the end they're still sold consoles. Replacements don't count for those figures.

Fine, but what do you think the number would be for unique console owners for that system. I have owned 2 PS2's.

 

[Metalmurphy]

I always wonder what the actual sell through was on that console. With all of those older consoles you have to figure in hardware updates, lost, stolen and broken re - buys when figuring out unique in home PS2's.

Erm... In the end they're still sold consoles. Replacements don't count for those figures.

 

[gofreak]

Or the PS3

It has a good chance. Year one will probably turn out to be its worst, and they were over 10m in that.

Ditto for 360, I think 40m should be reasonable.