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[Hatchetforce]

Why? What would happen?

What already happened. It is obvious enough as so many tripped.

 

[Marty Chinn]

lol wtf. You dodged most of my points there and added a lot of other topics into the mix. Very well then.

I didn't think I really dodged anything there, but I'll try to reply to more points here to make sure I'm not dodging anything.

The problem was NOT about how MS conveyed a message..we aren't idiots and not everyone is a fanboy trying to spin what they say. Issue was the message itself. It was vague, anti consumer and lacked focus on what's important. That's what it actually was. It wasn't about people screaming sky is falling. Early this year on Gaf there was a strong expectation that MS will trump sony easily. So there is no conspiracy here. If sony did the same things as they did Sony would be in the same receiving end from gamers here.

I don't think people are idiots, ill informed or lacking knowledge or understanding of things, but not idiots. The problem was definitely now MS conveyed the message. I'm not sure what you were paying attention to be it most certainly was how they conveyed the message. They made an event close to E3 and made the assumption that just showing off the console and getting out of the way the other features while briefly touching on games and then focusing on games at E3 which was just a few weeks later was a good idea. For many, obviously, that was a problem.

Then there was how they randomly said things in interviews without everyone being on the same page and then giving out contradictory info and then even when they tried to clarify they would give vague info or saying stuff would come later and it was just a big cluster fuck. If that's not the definition of the problem being how they conveyed the message, then I don't know what is. MS was terrible about the way they staggered info while Sony did a great job.

And yes, it was about the sky falling when games were barely showed at the unveiling when everyone should have realized E3 was so close and around the corner. Immediately people claimed there wasn't a focus on games when the reality was once E3 hit, there were plenty of games and third parties all around supporting it. It was a lame jump to conclusion that somehow all of the media stuff was somehow stopping the game stuff.

People didn't like the ordering of the first step that MS took to unveil the system when everyone should realize the unveiling was step one in a several series of steps to stage what the console was about. Anyone thinking they would know everything by the end of of step one was foolish. Anyone making a snap judgement at that point was foolish. This is not a sprint, but a marathon and the start of the race wasn't for half a year a way. Are you saying people weren't jumping to conclusions after the unveiling for something that still had 6 months until launch without all the information known?

You speak as if E3 fixed a lot of things or something. It didn't. It's still a more expensive, weaker system which before the countless 180s were anti consumer. Their hand was forced most probably thanks to pre-order data.

I didn't say E3 fixed a lot of things. I said E3 was step 2 of a series of steps of trickling out information of the system. It was the first time we learned a lot more about the games of the system. At this point we got another piece of the puzzle to get a better view of the picture.

How they handled their DRM was a disaster too. It wasn't explained very well and it had some crappy anti-consumer practices in there. A lot of that could have been minimized had they had a better strategy of presenting it to people. Even then it would still have been problematic without giving some incentives on why this was a good idea. Again, this goes back to the poor way that MS conveyed the messaging. Even then, we were still 5 months from launch with a lot being able to change. And guess what, a lot did and the race still hasn't started.

Speaking of weaker system, one thing that kept getting harped on was how much memory was dedicated to the OS on the Xbox One. That too was a focal point as proof that MS wasn't focused on games. Then much more recently, it came out how much was going to be available for the PS4 but not once did Sony ever get accused of not being focused on games because of RAM allocation. Another point of jumping to conclusions without having all the information available.

By showing their hand, and I thought this would be obvious, I was referring to the software line up. Which was what your original post was about. We actually do know most of their software line up for the first year. From Sony we know maybe around 6 titles but that's it. Which was my point. If you are actually going to be 'realistic' you will realize how silly your initial claim/question was.

My original post was addressing the notion that somehow MS wasn't focused on games because of their initial unveiling where they showed a lot of media functionality and didn't show too many games because E3 was around the corner. It was a silly notion then, and it's a silly notion now. The usual suspects are on board both platforms. Both platforms will have third party support and just like this generation the difference will be in the first party line ups, exclusives, and timed exclusives. Both will have those too.

Yes people who wanted to see more games than tv rants at a game console unveiling were the 'foolish' ones. Think about that for a second. Keep in mind, MS is not a unique case..would have been the same response if it were Sony or Nintendo. But even then people were hopeful for a better E3 showing. But then we got to know the price and more info about their policies which overshadowed most of what they did.

Yes, they were foolish to think they knew everything about the system six months before launch and didn't factor in that both companies would be releasing information for the next several months up until launch. Nobody blows their load all at once at these things. They do it over time and until all that info is known, you don't have the full picture and you're jumping to conclusions. They were foolish to think that the Xbox One would have gaming as a major component of the system just because it had media capabilities that were shown first. I don't think either Sony or MS beat each other at E3 as far as game line up goes either. Sony had a better booth, that's for sure, but they didn't have the better game line up.

You somehow seems to rationalize things into a bubble that fits your narrative there. There was no confusion or lack of information about MS's policies at E3 or post E3.

Uh yes there were. You didn't read the thread of people asking a ton of questions on how things would work even after they posted that FAQ? There was plenty of unanswered questions and confusion on their wording.

There was no need to wait. So no you weren't right.

Yes I was right. Why? Because in the end they went away and that huge issue is going to be a non issue by launch. It'll be forgotten and moved on about. People thinking that the public in general is going to cling to policies that no longer exist are foolish. So yes, I was right that people should wait to see what the final picture will be rather than jumping to conclusions.

If you actually saw them doing all these 180s then good on you, you can see the future rather well. The doubt, frustration and to a certain extent annoyance were justified. MS realized this thanks to fan feedback and hence they backed out asap from most of their dumb choices. The only incomplete information at the time we had were regarding, launch regions, some of the games and few other aspects such as region locking. Not jumping to conclusions on those subjects were the right way to go and I agree.

I thought there was a high chance they would do a 180 because of the backlash and it happened. Part of me was hoping they would go through with it so we could see the amazing crash and burn but it seemed obvious once E3 happened. Even then, waiting to judge isn't limited to their policies. It's to everything. Game line up, policies, bundle, etc. There was a lot of time from announcements until launch and we still don't even know the full launch line up or release date. We still have a ways to go before we have the full picture. Even now we're finding out about TV media content for the PS4. Things are still changing and evolving. How each system stacks up to each other will be highly depending on all the different pieces to the puzzle. We still have Gamescon next week which we'll get even more info. Heck, we only found out about paid multiplayer on the PS4 at E3 when we didn't know that before. I don't even think we have the full picture about PSN and XBL yet. There's still a lot to know.

When the new news of their reversal of policies were announced, people have been mostly optimistic about them. You can't blame some of them to be a bit cautious since as MS PR has shown, their words can be misleading and are not trust worthy.

Umm mostly optimistic? There's still a lot of lame bashing going on about every little thing. I don't think it's mostly optimistic at all around here. Every little thing gets attacked by. Certainly I can understand some people being cautious or pissed at MS, but I'm not putting judgement on either platform until likely October.

By you guys I mean people including you who are hanging onto the straw that is 'bu bu they have more exclusives'. You guys are being naive and are setting yourself up. Just with this post you talked about how people should wait to learn more and how that has been your motto but yet just earlier in the thread you did the exact opposite. So make up your mind already. There is no conspiracy against MS. They have been doing good work in the past few weeks and they should be complimented. But that has nothing to do with a 'rumored' Sony tv partnership. This console war nonsense had no place in here but yet some people are still so salty from the Pre and Post E3 thrashing MS received that they will take any chance they can get.

Not once did I push the argument that they have more exclusives. I was merely attacking the notion about whether MS was lacking focus on games or not and it seems silly when both MS and Sony are doing games, and media and both are putting a lot of effort into both. My point was most third party games was going to both platforms and that the Xbox One was just as focused as a game platform because of that support compared to the PS4.

You keep lumping me with people that don't make any sense to group me with. I already said I'm leaning in favor of the PS4. Even though I'm platform agnostic and buy everything because I hate worry about if I can play a game or not, I'm still likely to favor the PS4 over the Xbone and will buy most games on the PS4 and only get the exclusives for the Xbone. But somehow you keep trying to group me as a Xbox One fan.

Despite leaning towards Sony this generation, it bugs the hell out of me how people are jumping to conclusions and making snap judgements about the Xbox One. It's getting a lot more shit than it deserves and it deserves a lot for the stunt MS tried to pull with their policies. But the arguments about the TV functionality, the lack of focus on games, and so forth are all just dumb and misguided. The most obvious of this is the RAM example that I mention earlier where people jump to conclusions about reserved memory on the Xbox One.

My problem has always been that both systems are game systems with media capabilities but one system gets more shit for being a game system with media capabilities because it has media capabilities. I hope I addressed at least most of your points this time.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

LTTP for this thread, sorry it's 1am and gonna go to bed and cant read it,
So is this a big deal? Will anyone be able to subscribe to it or do you have to have a certain cable provider and so forth.

 

[vivftp]

My mind is boggled at the possibilities here and where Sony may be in a couple of years with all of their various media divisions and all of these online services. What do we have?

1) Video Unlimited - allows you to rent and buy a wide range of SD and HD movies and TV shows, and 4K content will be introduced soon. Sony has also tested streaming movies that're still in theatres so this could lead to interesting possibilities. Why go to the movies when you can have a dozen friends over and watch that same movie on your big screen?

2) Music Unlimited - a subscription fee gives you access to millions of high quality songs, and also allows you to save them offline on certain devices. I've had this service for the past year when they had the PS+ sale for $12. I like it, but don't find myself using it much since I don't have a desirable mobile device to utilize it. Once I get my new phone I'd want to use it a lot, but by then my 1 year sub will likely be up

3) Gaikai - true we don't know how this will be fully utilized, there are so many possibilities. We know there will at least be streaming backwards compatibility for older games on PS4. For all we know they could be planning a sub fee to access the entire PS1/2 and maybe at least part of the PS3 library. Not too shabby to have thousands of games that're likely to be playable on a wide range of devices like PS4, PS3, TV, Bluray player, PC, tablet and smartphone.

4) IPTV - this has been rumored for a while and it's nice to see it progressing here. I guess we have a few months to go to see just how big this will be.


Then of course we have dingy little services like Crackle which is free anyways.

I wonder how Sony will handle all of these various services. Each will have their own individual fees I have to imagine, but what if you want them all? Or some of them? I can easily see bundles being introduced to give you a discount for subscribing to more than one service. Maybe discounts if you're a PS+ member?

With proper execution all of these services combined could be huge for Sony. Makes me laugh at any idiots who suggest they spin off part or all of their entertainment division.


Times like this I wish I lived in Japan or parts of Asia that'll be getting to utilize Sonys gigabit internet services via So-Net. I wonder if those people will get any additional incentives for signing up to these sort of services. Sony needs to become an ISP in North America ASAP!

Spoiler

yeah yeah, not gonna happen

 

[vivftp]

LTTP for this thread, sorry it's 1am and gonna go to bed and cant read it,
So is this a big deal? Will anyone be able to subscribe to it or do you have to have a certain cable provider and so forth.

This is meant to be an alternative to cable providers - TV from the internets!

 

[Nightengale]

With proper execution all of these services combined could be huge for Sony. Makes me laugh at any idiots who suggest they spin off part or all of their entertainment division.

The execution's always been the issue though.

Structurally, Sony's never really done anything to leverage on the value of their inter-related divisions, with all of them doing their own things. SEN is a good start, but they're very far behind the curve that there's a lot of noise in the space of 'digital media services' like Netflix and Spotify where they'll need to work really really hard to establish their Unlimited service as an actual selling point, instead of just a bullet point feature.

The same's true for Xbox Music and Video. They're late-comers to a space dominated by a lot of big and bigger players already, and they're going to be lagging even further as big players like Netflix extend their competitive edge via original programming like House of Cards.

 

[travisbickle]

LTTP for this thread, sorry it's 1am and gonna go to bed and cant read it,
So is this a big deal? Will anyone be able to subscribe to it or do you have to have a certain cable provider and so forth.

I use IPTV here in South Korea. It's a subscription service that provides you with a box, but you can also use a PS3. It's practically cable, but the cable is actually Ethernet meaning with the right software many products with an Ethernet input can be used.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Sony has been exceedingly forward thinking over the past five years or so.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

This is meant to be an alternative to cable providers - TV from the internets!

I use IPTV here in South Korea. It's a subscription service that provides you with a box, but you can also use a PS3. It's practically cable, but the cable is actually Ethernet meaning with the right software many products with an Ethernet input can be used.

Whoaaa this sounds interesting, I've got a pretty fast connection too. The traditional cable model doesn't have a long-term future IMO, the subscribers are down and will continue decreasing. It needs to be shaken up. These consoles seem like a perfect opportunity for that.

 

[Nightengale]

Sony has been exceedingly forward thinking over the past five years or so.

The fate of the entire company lies in the edge of a cliff, they cannot afford to not be forward thinking.

 

[vivftp]

The execution's always been the issue though.

Structurally, Sony's never really done anything to leverage on the value of their inter-related divisions, with all of them doing their own things. SEN is a good start, but they're very far behind the curve that there's a lot of noise in the space of 'digital media services' like Netflix and Spotify where they'll need to work really really hard to establish their Unlimited service as an actual selling point, instead of just a bullet point feature.

The same's true for Xbox Music and Video. They're late-comers to a space dominated by a lot of big and bigger players already, and they're going to be lagging even further as big players like Netflix extend their competitive edge via original programming like House of Cards.

True, we'll see how it all pans out.

IMO Sony is in a very unique situation due to how many forms of entertainment they have their fingers dipped in. TV, movies, games, music, books... then all the hardware to ensure its distribution to all forms of popular electronics. I don't think any one company has that sort of reach like Sony does. Kaz has been doing an amazing job since taking charge and seems adament about their media divisions importance to Sony so I'm very hopeful we'll see some spectacular things. Plus they now have the worlds eye on their media divisions after all the recent hoopla, so they have pressure to produce a spectacular result.

 

[harSon]

Sony has been exceedingly forward thinking over the past five years or so.

In what regard?

 

[Marty Chinn]

Whoaaa this sounds interesting, I've got a pretty fast connection too. The traditional cable model doesn't have a long-term future IMO, the subscribers are down and will continue decreasing. It needs to be shaken up. These consoles seem like a perfect opportunity for that.

Traditional cable isn't going away anytime soon. Cord cutters are still a drop in the bucket right now and there is actually still slight growth in the cable market.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Traditional cable isn't going away anytime soon. Cord cutters are still a drop in the bucket right now and there is actually still slight growth in the cable market.

Is there really? Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, these types of shows probably help. I figured it would go the way of the landline telephone eventually, sounds like that's premature.

 

[Hidden One]

What a huge difference it makes when you care about games first and services second.

 

[vivftp]

The fate of the entire company lies in the edge of a cliff, they cannot afford to not be forward thinking.

I think they were at that stage about a year ago. They're already well on their way away from said cliff and are headed towards the promise land of being a very profitable company. Look at how much they've achieved...

-VAIO Pro/Duo computers are quite desirable for their light weight form factor and amazing screens
-Tablet Z is regarded by many as the best tablet of 2013 thus far for its super thin and light form factor and great specs. It seems that a successor might even be on the way going by internet rumors
-Xperia Z has skyrocketed Sonys phone prowess in the eyes of many and the Z Ultra and Honami look like they're going to kick that into orbit
-Bravia televisions are quite desirable such as the acclaimed W900 series (visit the TV thread to see the swooning over it) and their 4K TVs are an amazing sight to behold
-Cameras are an area where they're innovating heavily. Cameras like the RX100 and RX100 II are arguably the best normal point and shoots in ultra small bodies. The RX1 is a technological marvel having a full frame sensor in such a tiny body. Plus we have the recent leaks about camera/sensor combo devices for smartphones which will likely open up an entirely new market of mobile photography and Sony will be leading the way
-PS4 has been kicking ass and taking names in the publics eye and the pre-orders seem to confirm that. We'll see how things turn out for the Vita after Gamescon and the PS4s launch


Compare this against Sony of 1-2 years ago where their products were still quite good for the most part, but not nearly as desired by the public as they are now, and they show no signs of slowing down. I know it may cause you to roll your eyes at me, but I firmly believe we're seeing the beginnings of the return of Sony of old where they dominated the electronics industry. It may take a few years to really get back to that sort of level, but they're off to a great start under Kaz.

 

[travisbickle]

Whoaaa this sounds interesting, I've got a pretty fast connection too. The traditional cable model doesn't have a long-term future IMO, the subscribers are down and will continue decreasing. It needs to be shaken up. These consoles seem like a perfect opportunity for that.

I don't really get how it works. Practically all the channels are in HD and there's hardly ever a hiccup. I read recently that they've updated the whole service to HTML 5, so you don't need to create apps on devices. And they want to be producing content in UHD next year! (This is Olleh TV)

 

[Nightengale]

I think they were at that stage about a year ago. They're already well on their way away from said cliff and are headed towards the promise land of being a very profitable company. Look at how much they've achieved...

It's hard to tell until the end of the current fiscal year, but thus far it feels like Sony's still running on pretty slim margins, which... while way better than being in the red, is still not the safe zone yet.

I will admit that from a hardware standpoint, it's definitely amazing that they've managed to pretty much resolidify their entire range of products in a short few years, from the mids to the highs. The RX1 still blows my mind, and Sony really needs to have 'a RX1' of its type across all of its hardware.

 

[vivftp]

It's hard to tell until the end of the current fiscal year, but thus far it feels like Sony's still running on pretty slim margins, which... while way better than being in the red, is still not the safe zone yet.

I will admit that from a hardware standpoint, it's definitely amazing that they've managed to pretty much resolidify their entire range of products in a short few years, from the mids to the highs. The RX1 still blows my mind, and Sony really needs to have 'a RX1' of its type across all of its hardware.

Well picture it as a graph. They've been going down, down, down for the past few years and over the past few quarters have been slowly climbing back up. They were still making losses, but they were making smaller and smaller losses. Now they've finally posted a profit and should be continuing that upwards trend on the back of their desirable hardware. They won't go from losing several billion to making several billion in just a year of course, it takes time.

Come to think of it, a lot of what Sony has been able to achieve so far in creating a desirable product looks like it might be related to their triluminos tech for LCD screens. Good call on that one as it's got to be a FAR cheaper option than something like OLED to get that sort of colour accuracy. Speaking of OLED, still worth remembering that Sony has been selling OLED displays for some time now on the professional side of things. Worth keeping in mind with all the recent news about Samsung and LG finally getting their sets out on a global level.

A year ago I was very hopeful that Crystal LED display tech would be Sonys new "trinitron" of the modern display era. It may still be, who knows. At least in the meantime this triluminos tech seems to be doing all sorts of good. I've been looking at photos and videos of the Xperia Z Ultras screen for the past few days and am amazed. I plan on buying Honami when it comes out and am REALLY hopeful the screen is at least equal to the Z Ultra.

 

[ThisWreckage]

In what regard?

Playstation Plus, Gaikai, and this deal. It's nothing splashy, but they've been acquiring huge assets and major partnerships in the gaming industry. This is not the same Sony that launched the 599 PS3 and had no idea what to do with the online aspect of the console. They're besting Microsoft at their own game in a way.

 

[Rad-]

I'm not really seeing the big deal in this. What's the benefit of getting cable over the internet? Or maybe it works differently there in US but here in Europe I don't get it.

However if Sony were to get some satellite channels in this way (like C-More/Canal in Europe), that could be pretty big.

 

[abstract alien]

Would this stream at 60fps for live/news/sports casts?

 

[amardilo]

Does this mean we get a Netflix like service from Sony?

I hope this is included in the price of PlayStation Plus.

 

[Bundy]

Gaikai Servers:

In europe. US centric my ass

 

[gofreak]

Does this mean we get a Netflix like service from Sony?

I hope this is included in the price of PlayStation Plus.

I could see a larger single sub that includes PS+ and other entertainment subscriptions. That is discounted vs those subs individually. But you won't get all that for the same price as PS+.

 

[Septimus Prime]

IPTV doesn't solve the channel bundling problem in any way. Channels are owned by a handful of media conglomerates. The deals they sign with companies like Comcast or in this case Sony, requires that all of their channels be bundled together. How would Sony's IPTV change this? Viacom isn't going to say you can offer CBS, but you don't have to buy MTV and Nick and Showtime rights from us too. The crappy channels are going to be forced on Sony's subscribers too.

It's definitely wishful optimism on my part. I do hope that Sony goes for the model that MS, Google, and Apple tried for, with a la carte channels, but we'll see.

 

[High Prophet of Regret]

Man I hate TV. Just give me more games!

 

[thuway]

If Sony can somehow offer me PS Plus, Music Unlimited, TV Unlimited, Movies Unlimited, and Gaikai for one reasonable price- I'll have very little reason to keep Netflix, Hulu Plus, and iTunes.


Am I understanding this right?

The only problem is, Sony needs to make this affordable for all parties and offer content just as good as Breaking Bad was. They need to be looking at things like House of Cards, Arrested Development, and those HBO / Showtime programs that everyone seems to be fawning over.

It is truly a storm from nowhere.

 

[Mr.Wreckless]

What a huge difference it makes when you care about games first and services second.

Yet by most accounts MS is the one with the better games showing so far.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Yet by most accounts MS is the one with the better games showing so far.

Well, they had to show their hand for the next year to try and ward off all the bad publicity.

There's still loads of games Sony hasn't announced yet that we know are in development.

 

[TriGen]

I generally like to try and inform myself instead of asking the thread dumb questions, but I've had a hard time finding the info I want. I read this on Game Informer and I couldn't really figure this out.

I live in the US. So, there's that. What I'm wondering is, how many channels would Sony offer? Do we know? On GI they just mention Viacom owning CC, CBS, MTV and a couple others. I would totally cut cable and view this as a great venture, but I would certainly need a lot more than that. Like I said earlier, this is a dumb question, but is Sony getting like all/most of the normal channels. As in ESPN, Fox, ABC, FX, etc., or is this just about the few Viacom currently owns?

I'm just curious if Sony is offering maybe a cheap way to watch a few channels, plus some original programming, or if the GI post just confused me and Sony is going full on Comcast, Charter, Time Warner cable with this. I just don't know exactly how "big" this deal is supposed to be. And I don't know if this is assumed to be just the first deal with more coming.

 

[Platinum_D]

good and welcomed to my eyes as long as their focus stay on the gamers 1st

 

[gofreak]

I generally like to try and inform myself instead of asking the thread dumb questions, but I've had a hard time finding the info I want. I read this on Game Informer and I couldn't really figure this out.

I live in the US. So, there's that. What I'm wondering is, how many channels would Sony offer? Do we know? On GI they just mention Viacom owning CC, CBS, MTV and a couple others. I would totally cut cable and view this as a great venture, but I would certainly need a lot more than that. Like I said earlier, this is a dumb question, but is Sony getting like all/most of the normal channels. As in ESPN, Fox, ABC, FX, etc., or is this just about the few Viacom currently owns?

I'm just curious if Sony is offering maybe a cheap way to watch a few channels, plus some original programming, or if the GI post just confused me and Sony is going full on Comcast, Charter, Time Warner cable with this. I just don't know exactly how "big" this deal is supposed to be. And I don't know if this is assumed to be just the first deal with more coming.

It's just one deal. It would give them just Viacom's channels/programming. They are talking to other networks too.

The importance of it, to quote WSJ:

While Sony would need to strike other programming deals to create a compelling alternative to conventional pay-TV services, even a single deal represents a big shift within the entertainment industry. Big channel owners have been reluctant to license their programs to Internet-TV services for fear of undercutting the lucrative arrangements they have with cable, satellite and phone companies.

And so they characterise it as Sony grabbing an early lead in this field.

 

[Afrikan]

If Sony can somehow offer me PS Plus, Music Unlimited, TV Unlimited, Movies Unlimited, and Gaikai for one reasonable price- I'll have very little reason to keep Netflix, Hulu Plus, and iTunes.

what could possibly be a reasonable price for all that? I think they'll let people bundle for 2 of those maybe.

also, I hated Music Unlimited at first...but then I learn for my smartphone it was best to delete the update that it does, and turn off automatic updates..and it worked well after that. I think I might have accidentally updated it a month ago though, so maybe they finally fixed the bug that cause it to crash or not start at all. So if anyone is still having problems with it, just delete the "Clear data" under App management.

but on other devices... Lovely. on the Vita works great...CPU works great...and on Tablet, works great. Man I hope they do a $12 thing again.

 

[TriGen]

It's just one deal. It would give them just Viacom's channels/programming. They are talking to other networks too.

The importance of it, to quote WSJ:



And so they characterise it as Sony grabbing an early lead in this field.

Makes sense. I assumed this was one deal that was meant to be the start of more things in the future, but I wanted to be sure just in case. Thanks for clarifying.

Makes me wonder if they are indeed planning on offering this as soon as this fall -- does that possibly mean they've already got another deal or two lined up?

 

[tzare]

is this thing supposed to be US only or ww?
I wish something like Netflix would be available in Spain, so i could have tv series and movies at a decent price. Crossed fingers.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Been trying to get a fix on what's going on this morning. Most people who would know about it are pretty tight lipped, but here's the story so far:

Sony are talking to Viacom, Disney, Fox and Time Warner over a massive shakeup of IPTV. The service would almost be like cable, but over the internet. The channels and content from these major companies would be offered via Sony's new PS-TV service (available via PS4, PS3, and a bunch of other Sony devices, plus Android and iOS), consumers would pay Sony a monthly sub fee and Sony pay for content licencing/carriage over PS TV. For Sony it gets them around the age old problem of not being able to own their own network because they are Japanese and by partnering with TW, they are looking to cut a deal for cheap bandwidth. One of the guys also expects them to cut deals with AT&T and other major ISPs for prime bandwidth (non-neutral internet).

Finally, he said Sony don't expect to make any money from the venture for at least 5 years which they think will be all about hooking in consumers and content providers, stupidly Sony would have to licence their own content from Starz, but at a reduced rate because of certain clauses in their deal. He said after the 5 year period Sony think they will have a large enough consumer base to dictate terms to content providers and ISPs to increase margins, and their content licencing deal with Starz comes to an end so that would represent a major annual saving. He said Sony want to launch Sony TV channels and Sony Movie channels with all of their own content which is vast because it includes Screen Gems.

 

[Callibretto]

Been trying to get a fix on what's going on this morning. Most people who would know about it are pretty tight lipped, but here's the story so far:

Sony are talking to Viacom, Disney, Fox and Time Warner over a massive shakeup of IPTV. The service would almost be like cable, but over the internet. The channels and content from these major companies would be offered via Sony's new PS-TV service (available via PS4, PS3, and a bunch of other Sony devices, plus Android and iOS), consumers would pay Sony a monthly sub fee and Sony pay for content licencing/carriage over PS TV. For Sony it gets them around the age old problem of not being able to own their own network because they are Japanese and by partnering with TW, they are looking to cut a deal for cheap bandwidth. One of the guys also expects them to cut deals with AT&T and other major ISPs for prime bandwidth (non-neutral internet).

Finally, he said Sony don't expect to make any money from the venture for at least 5 years which they think will be all about hooking in consumers and content providers, stupidly Sony would have to licence their own content from Starz, but at a reduced rate because of certain clauses in their deal. He said after the 5 year period Sony think they will have a large enough consumer base to dictate terms to content providers and ISPs to increase margins, and their content licencing deal with Starz comes to an end so that would represent a major annual saving. He said Sony want to launch Sony TV channels and Sony Movie channels with all of their own content which is vast because it includes Screen Gems.

so how's the feasibility of this happening?

 

[LukasTaves]

Some of the posts in this thread are ridiculous.

Anyway, I wonder why Microsoft never officially released Xbox 360 IPTV

I thought they did, but you had to have a compatible internet provider...

 

[amardilo]

I could see a larger single sub that includes PS+ and other entertainment subscriptions. That is discounted vs those subs individually. But you won't get all that for the same price as PS+.

As long as it's not too high or similar to Netflix streaming subscription then I could be interested in it.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

so how's the feasibility of this happening?

He said Sony are looking at a Q4 roll out with PS4, but that could slip to Q1. He thinks it will definitely happen, even if they just launch with Viacom, Disney and SPE/Starz at first, with Fox and TW joining in 2014.

His guess for pricing.

$5.99 ad supported VoD similar content to Netflix
$9.99 same but no ads

~$30/m for TV channels, some premium from Viacom, ABC and SPE

~$80m for all regular and premium programming on cable TV, every TV channel you can think of.

Additional monthly fees for sports programming, can be added as an extra to any package.

He also said Sony's deal with Disney would be much wider than what MS are doing with ESPN. Also, the deals are being made by SEN and SPE, not SCE.

No word on non-US roll out. Sony are waiting for a key piece of EU regulation to go through that will allow for single market content licencing across all EU27 nations, that is expected to happen in 2014.

It's hard to tell until the end of the current fiscal year, but thus far it feels like Sony's still running on pretty slim margins, which... while way better than being in the red, is still not the safe zone yet.

I will admit that from a hardware standpoint, it's definitely amazing that they've managed to pretty much resolidify their entire range of products in a short few years, from the mids to the highs. The RX1 still blows my mind, and Sony really needs to have 'a RX1' of its type across all of its hardware.

In the quarter just gone Sony's main electronics divisions and smartphone divisions broke even. The only major non-media division to lose money was gaming which they blamed on PS4 investments.

The company is slowly, but surely, turning around. Maybe not as fast as some would like, but it is happening. If they can carry the Q1 momentum forwards I think this year could be much stronger for them than the $2.5bn operating profit forecast they have.

 

[Manmademan]

You would pay $140 a year to stream ESPN?

loads of people would.

Sports events are literally the only reason some people subscribe to cable at all, spending $60 or so a MONTH to watch them.

tell them "hey, you can cut the cord, and spend 12 dollars a month instead of 60" and see what happens.

 

[LukasTaves]

Sony is only one out of those that has ever run a media company and have their own programming already as well as their own tv channels.

So if anyone should be able to do it, it should be Sony.

But they and Intel are the only ones of those who don't have a huge platform to back it up. Ms has windows, Apple has iOS and Google has Android. Sony's offer would most likely be tied to their devices, and/or to apps from these platforms, which already limits their appeal, or even their fighting chance for good deals with other content providers...

It might actually be a good thing to be on neutral ground regarding other providers, because they might not want to license stuff for you if they feel threatened by a direct competitor having their own distribution service...

 

[gofreak]

But they and Intel are the only ones of those who don't have a huge platform to back it up. Ms has windows, Apple has iOS and Google has Android.

Are they huge TV-connected platforms?

Mobile is super important here too, but Windows - for example - isn't exactly flavour of the month in that arena either.

In terms of having software preinstalled for such a service, as an indicator of potential reach, last year Sony sold 30m+ living room devices and 30m+ mobile devices.

And this service would be on iOS/Android too, PC probably also...as an app, sure, but I don't think that would be super limiting to its appeal if the service was attractive.

Accessibility would be less limited than an Android or iOS exclusive service.

 

[avaya]

Been trying to get a fix on what's going on this morning. Most people who would know about it are pretty tight lipped, but here's the story so far:

Sony are talking to Viacom, Disney, Fox and Time Warner over a massive shakeup of IPTV. The service would almost be like cable, but over the internet. The channels and content from these major companies would be offered via Sony's new PS-TV service (available via PS4, PS3, and a bunch of other Sony devices, plus Android and iOS), consumers would pay Sony a monthly sub fee and Sony pay for content licencing/carriage over PS TV. For Sony it gets them around the age old problem of not being able to own their own network because they are Japanese and by partnering with TW, they are looking to cut a deal for cheap bandwidth. One of the guys also expects them to cut deals with AT&T and other major ISPs for prime bandwidth (non-neutral internet).

Finally, he said Sony don't expect to make any money from the venture for at least 5 years which they think will be all about hooking in consumers and content providers, stupidly Sony would have to licence their own content from Starz, but at a reduced rate because of certain clauses in their deal. He said after the 5 year period Sony think they will have a large enough consumer base to dictate terms to content providers and ISPs to increase margins, and their content licencing deal with Starz comes to an end so that would represent a major annual saving. He said Sony want to launch Sony TV channels and Sony Movie channels with all of their own content which is vast because it includes Screen Gems.

That is ambitious. Any word if Level 3, Cogent or Verizon also being talked to?

 

[LukasTaves]

Are they huge TV-connected platforms?

Not currently, but the point is that the potential is there, and if it's tied to the platform, like iTunes, you have an abnormally high attach rate to the platform.

Mobile is super important here too, but Windows - for example - isn't exactly flavour of the month in that arena either.

That's very true. But these are one of those areas where I'm expecting Ms to come late to the party, even though they could have everything in place to be the first one years before anyone else... But I would totally bet on Google and Apple coming very soon with huge iptv offerings.

In terms of having software preinstalled for such a service, as an indicator of potential reach, last year Sony sold 30m+ living room devices and 30m+ mobile devices.

I didn't know that, and it's a lot better than I expected. If all those 60m/year devices are capable of enjoying the service, then yes, just on their own they could have enough of a user base to tackle.

And this service would be on iOS/Android too, PC probably also...as an app, sure, but I don't think that would be super limiting to its appeal if the service was attractive.

Accessibility would be less limited than an Android or iOS exclusive service.

Accessibility, yes, but they would have to compete with all the other apps, for the users' money. If your solution is primal on your own platform, it's the other apps that have to be good enough to make the users go seek another solution.

 

[Nightengale]

Been trying to get a fix on what's going on this morning. Most people who would know about it are pretty tight lipped, but here's the story so far:

...Wow.

That is crazy-aggressive. I might have expected Google to do something like this, but not Sony. Damn, that's insane.

 

[spwolf]

iptv is very common here in eastern europe.... main problem for rest of us is that it will be limited to large markets, but otherwise we have a lot of iptv services, heck we have Sony tv channels

 

[Vestal]

Is there really? Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, these types of shows probably help. I figured it would go the way of the landline telephone eventually, sounds like that's premature.

Its a tough battle to cut the cable. A lot of the providers for Broadband are TV Providers as well, and leverage broadband with the cable subscription. They have the monopoly on speeds and the ability to stream content to their consumers. They can and have blocked services from being streamed to devices in the past unless they get a cut.


I am still iffy on this deal between Sony and Viacom in regards to what will be available, and the pricing structure around it. Its a good step, but more details need to surface before we can say WOOHOO WINNER.

 

[StoOgE]

Been trying to get a fix on what's going on this morning. Most people who would know about it are pretty tight lipped, but here's the story so far:

Sony are talking to Viacom, Disney, Fox and Time Warner over a massive shakeup of IPTV. The service would almost be like cable, but over the internet. The channels and content from these major companies would be offered via Sony's new PS-TV service (available via PS4, PS3, and a bunch of other Sony devices, plus Android and iOS), consumers would pay Sony a monthly sub fee and Sony pay for content licencing/carriage over PS TV. For Sony it gets them around the age old problem of not being able to own their own network because they are Japanese and by partnering with TW, they are looking to cut a deal for cheap bandwidth. One of the guys also expects them to cut deals with AT&T and other major ISPs for prime bandwidth (non-neutral internet).

Finally, he said Sony don't expect to make any money from the venture for at least 5 years which they think will be all about hooking in consumers and content providers, stupidly Sony would have to licence their own content from Starz, but at a reduced rate because of certain clauses in their deal. He said after the 5 year period Sony think they will have a large enough consumer base to dictate terms to content providers and ISPs to increase margins, and their content licencing deal with Starz comes to an end so that would represent a major annual saving. He said Sony want to launch Sony TV channels and Sony Movie channels with all of their own content which is vast because it includes Screen Gems.

Out of curiosity are you a confirmed insider? Using Time Warner interchangeably between the cable company and the media conglomerate makes me think you arent seeing as twc is a publicly traded company that only license its name from Time Warner at this point.