gamechanger87
Member
HBO averages $15/month from all the cable providers so I don't disagree here.
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Sony Reaches Preliminary Programming Deal With Viacom for Online Pay TV Service
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HBO averages $15/month from all the cable providers so I don't disagree here.
purpletentacle
Member
Look, they could be. But let's be a little realistic here: This is Microsoft.
They've been recycling the same ideas for the better part of a decade now.
A cable box input with an internet overlay... that was called MSN TV and its been out since '95: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSN_TV
The Surface name came from a failed Surface Touch Screen table that Microsoft tried launching in 07. It wasn't a terrible idea, they just couldn't market it and and quickly scrapped the project before it ever took off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRU3NemA95k
Or how eerily familiar Project Spark is to Microsoft's little remembered Kodu software from years ago: http://fuse.microsoft.com/projects/kodu
Then there was the original stuff Microsoft just flat out never released because it didn't fiy their "image," like the Courier.
Or how about the fact Microsoft had the option to release an e-ink reader years before the competition only to have it shot down by Gates because it didn't run Windows.
The only X-Factor to my argument is the Kinect. That's been a successes for them and I can't argue against it.
That said, historically, this isn't a company that has tried new things. And if they do, they bail on them VERY quickly. A lot of that has to do with how the company is run: http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederi...technique-that-cost-microsoft-its-creativity/
That said, I'm happy to be proven wrong over time. I... I just don't see it. I think the HDMI-in is the best they could muster right now.
I thought that was considered a pay wall and this service should be free like netflix?.
This service is something completely separate from PS+. This service is supposed to be a IPTV/Pay-TV subscription service that competes with the cable & satellite companies. PS+ members might get a 10% discount, though.
ChiliManiac
Banned
Marty Chinn
Member
Let's be realistic, Microsoft could have focused on nothing but games but still wouldn't have been able to capture the Japanese market. As for indie games, yes Sony definitely seems to be in the mindset of indie developers, and there are some great indie games out there, but I'd hardly call this out on the basis that Microsoft wasn't focused on games. Microsoft may not put as much weight on the indie development scene, but I think that's more about not thinking of the importance of indie games rather than games in general.
Whipped Spartan
Member
This news is good move by Sony. Funny watching Sony fans lap up any Sony news. If this was announce for Xbox people would flip.
Penguins&PolarBears
Member
Who is going to drop their local cable/satellite for an online-only pay TV service? Will it have channels from Time Warner(HBO), Sky/Foxtel(Fox family), Comcast(NBC family), etc.? And if it does have channels from theircompetitors how expensive is the service going to be after their negotiations. It is relatively easy to sign a contract with Viacom or Disney who don't compete, but there are reasons why Apple and Microsoft haven't entered into this business. If they have to also subsidize PS4 hardware then expect the monthly service price to be very expensive. If the service price is cheap then expect it to be missing a lot of channels. Reality of the matter is that most consumers are not going to be willing to change their current service, let alone to replace it with something that most likely doesn't have all of their channels. The cable/satellite companies aren't going to just roll over and die.
You know I see this said a lot but how many other companies can you name, that are as big and successful as Microsoft, that do try plenty of new things? You could say Google, but they're even worse than Microsoft when it comes to cancelling poor performing / less popular projects. Then who else is there, Apple? When was the last time that they truly innovated?
The general perception people have of Microsoft is pretty much laid out in your post, but are the other companies really so much better?
I mean personally I think something like a Hand Tracker, or research into dramatically reducing touch screen lag to be something new and innovative.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Awesome, now Sony can reach a wider audience for The Tester season 3.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
If they can honestly offer an a-la carte cable channel service, something service providers refuse to attempt, i will cancel my service and go PS4 only.
Time Warner Cable is a separate entity from Time Warner Inc., the media arm wouldn't care at all.
purpletentacle
Member
I completely agree with you, and I wasn't trying to defend the other incumbents. I was just addressing a comment made about Microsoft potentially withholding something great.
That I don't see. Despite their great R&D department.
I also I don't see it coming from Google, or Apple (despite my fondness for them)
Frankly, I look to the little guys for disruption.
DidntKnowJack
Member
Kind of a different situation. Sony didn't lead their next generation reveal with this kind of stuff.
spatenfloot
Member
That's true. It will likely be available through Sony Bravia tvs and bluray players as well.
Aside from the fact that Sony had the good sense to start their next-gen marketing by focusing on games, this service is fundamentally different from what MS is proposing with the Xbox.
MS is pushing that played out game where they overlay an interface on your existing cable box.
Sony is proposing a complete IPTV solution that requires just the console and an internet connection.
The two are so completely different, and only Sony's has any forward thinking involved with it, that these tired comparisons and persecution complex posts are ridiculous.
IPTV is hardly what I'd call forward thinking. Many companies, Microsoft included, have tried IPTV in the past. For one reason or another they never took off. It'll be interesting to see if Sony can do anything different.
Sony could be releasing a new PlayStation console soon? Whoa there Wall Street Journal - that limb you're going out on might not be too sturdy!
rudieboy77
Member
This what I thought MS was going to do with the Xbox, not make it some add on to existing cable, but become a cable provider of sorts with DVR functionality.
That was their plan once upon a time, and for all we know it still may be part of their plan for the future.
Ok yes let's be realistic for a second here
Here's how it has been so far
Sony has been doing their own thing..spreading out their reveals/announcements across the hardware reveal/E3 and going into Gamescom with plenty left to unveil still (let's not be naive here, unless you think the first and second party devs are doing nothing they have a lot left to be shown)
MS started with a laughable hardware reveal which back fired big time. Then in an attempt to try and change the perception they had a great showing of games at E3, even if a large chunk of it was multiplat or timed exclusives.
They basically showed most of their hand by this point. Let's talk again after Gamescom and TGS. I don't recall a single time in the past years where MS had a bigger showing at those two events than Sony..and fans know this.
So yes, let us all be realistic here. If sony spent a large portion of the hardware unveiling on TV like MS did..they will get the same response from fans. There is no double standard. Remember how much negative buzz they got for that long wonderbook demo? Tv demos and talk are even more boring.
Now it's clear that some of the more diehard MS fans cling on to the exclusive line up (by the numbers, quality depends on the person). But like you said let's be realistic here...you guys are setting yourselves up big time with this kind of talk. PS3 exclusive offerings should have been a good indication for this. It's worse when you consider a good chunk of X360s exclusives, especially in the later years, were PC multiplats and/or XBL titles, yet here we are discounting the same thing on the PS4
I have no issue believing sony will mess up eventually with something or the other. But right now you guys are grasping at the same straw over and over again. Be a bit more patient
Apart from Below and (probably) TitanFall, what confirmed timed exclusives were there?
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Jesus fucking Christ, chill out. Gamescon is, what, 4 maybe 5 days away? You'll probably see what they've been up to regarding PS4 there.
For sure.
Septimus Prime
Member
IPTV never took off because studios and distributors didn't take it seriously and didn't offer up their content. Sony and Viacom, though, are these companies, so this at least has a shot at succeeding. And if it does fail, it least it will have some content that's worthwhile, I guess.
Meanwhile, I feel the Xbox One's cable overlay solution is less compelling because it does nothing to address the cable subscription model of paying a lot for a lot of channels, of which only a few have content worth watching. It really doesn't matter how good the interface is if it can't address that basal problem.
Lion Heart
Banned
So much hostility, people must be really scared that Sony is going to do well this gen.
Mass Effect
Member
(1) No.
(2) Sorry, but I'd rather not have those studios rushing to meet the launch deadline. I'd much rather they take their time and not compromise quality for haste. (EDIT: i.e., Driveclub seems to be having this problem. Forza too.)
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Wait, so this is just a rumor?
It hasn't been confirmed by either company yet, which is another reason why the comparisons to MS touting TV is so stupid. Sony hasn't even announced anything yet.
I mostly agree. Personally I think Microsoft is working on their own IPTV solution for the Xbox. It's why they sold their Mediaroom Division to Ericsson, so they can concentrate all of their efforts on the Xbox.
I think they included the HDMI PassThrough as a bit of a stop-gap solution but to also enable them to cover all bases.
In a few years (or less) I could see a scenario where you can have access to Microsoft's IPTV service, along with all other on-demand apps you need; and if there's one or two channels that just aren't available via IPTV (unlikely, but a possibility), you can still use the PassThrough solution. All of it controllable through one box, just using your voice.
That last bit sounded a bit like PR, but you get the idea.
Marty Chinn
Member
See my problem here is that since the MS announcement, it has been the sky is falling, MS is doomed, there are no games, they don't care about games, they aren't focused on games. The thing is if you take all the information now compared to what it was on the day they unveiled, the picture is drastically different. I've always said from the beginning, that these are just the first steps and first bits of info. Neither company had shown their entire hand and it was still a long time until launch. Let's wait until most or all the launch info is out and then let's judge how things are. That has always been my stance and clearly from the way things have changed so much in just the last two months, I was right.
I'm not going to deny that Microsoft did a terrible job on how the conveyed the message about the Xbox One to people. They messed up and it looked like amateur hour for them. But again, people were yelling the sky was falling only after an hour since the unveiling. Anyone who was complaining about games was being foolish since we all knew E3 was right around the corner. If people can't understand that info would be staggered over the period of several months and that in a general case, small things here and there would be forgotten when everything was out and launch was upon us, then these are the same people who complain about games being too expensive to make with the only solution is to make them cheaper. I'm looking at the bigger picture here. WonderBook was a long drawn out demo, and ya, I'd complain for about 30 seconds and then move on because it's meaningless in the scope of things. People complaining about the lack of games at the initial unveiling would be the equivalent of people thinking Sony would only release WonderBook and dump all their holiday marketing into it because they had a long focus at its unveiling.
Now it's clear that some of the more diehard MS fans cling on to the exclusive line up (by the numbers, quality depends on the person). But like you said let's be realistic here...you guys are setting yourselves up big time with this kind of talk. PS3 exclusive offerings should have been a good indication for this. It's worse when you consider a good chunk of X360s exclusives, especially in the later years, were PC multiplats and/or XBL titles, yet here we are discounting the same thing on the PS4
I have no issue believing sony will mess up eventually with something or the other. But right now you guys are grasping at the same straw over and over again. Be a bit more patient
What do you mean "you guys"? You don't even know what my stance is in all this. I think Sony has done a great job in how they've presented the PS4 and how open they appear to be. I think Microsoft dropped the ball and almost had a huge disaster on their hands with some of their policies. However, not once did I doubt that either system would be about games and have substantial support behind them. If anyone were to ask me what I thought they should get if both were out today, I'd probably say a PS4 over a Xbox One. I'm kinda hoping the PS4 beats them hands down this generation. That said, I think a lot of people have been jumping to false conclusions and making premature judgement or even just harping on the smallest or stupidest things when it comes to the Xbox One.
Agreed.
George Claw M.D.
Member
This is similar to what I was thinking. Just like constrictive data caps on mobile data plans limits free use of all the streaming apps available, ISPs will enforced data caps on any data that isn't used by its own preferred services. Basically the net neutrality problem.
Septimus Prime
Member
They may very well be, but right now they aren't in Sony's unique position of being a content provider, so they would still be at the mercy of the content providers, whereas Sony already has at least one (itself) on its side.
lol wtf. You dodged most of my points there and added a lot of other topics into the mix. Very well then.
The problem was NOT about how MS conveyed a message..we aren't idiots and not everyone is a fanboy trying to spin what they say. Issue was the message itself. It was vague, anti consumer and lacked focus on what's important. That's what it actually was. It wasn't about people screaming sky is falling. Early this year on Gaf there was a strong expectation that MS will trump sony easily. So there is no conspiracy here. If sony did the same things as they did Sony would be in the same receiving end from gamers here.
You speak as if E3 fixed a lot of things or something. It didn't. It's still a more expensive, weaker system which before the countless 180s were anti consumer. Their hand was forced most probably thanks to pre-order data.
By showing their hand, and I thought this would be obvious, I was referring to the software line up. Which was what your original post was about. We actually do know most of their software line up for the first year. From Sony we know maybe around 6 titles but that's it. Which was my point. If you are actually going to be 'realistic' you will realize how silly your initial claim/question was.
Yes people who wanted to see more games than tv rants at a game console unveiling were the 'foolish' ones. Think about that for a second. Keep in mind, MS is not a unique case..would have been the same response if it were Sony or Nintendo. But even then people were hopeful for a better E3 showing. But then we got to know the price and more info about their policies which overshadowed most of what they did.
You somehow seems to rationalize things into a bubble that fits your narrative there. There was no confusion or lack of information about MS's policies at E3 or post E3. There was no need to wait. So no you weren't right. If you actually saw them doing all these 180s then good on you, you can see the future rather well. The doubt, frustration and to a certain extent annoyance were justified. MS realized this thanks to fan feedback and hence they backed out asap from most of their dumb choices. The only incomplete information at the time we had were regarding, launch regions, some of the games and few other aspects such as region locking. Not jumping to conclusions on those subjects were the right way to go and I agree.
When the new news of their reversal of policies were announced, people have been mostly optimistic about them. You can't blame some of them to be a bit cautious since as MS PR has shown, their words can be misleading and are not trust worthy.
By you guys I mean people including you who are hanging onto the straw that is 'bu bu they have more exclusives'. You guys are being naive and are setting yourself up. Just with this post you talked about how people should wait to learn more and how that has been your motto but yet just earlier in the thread you did the exact opposite. So make up your mind already. There is no conspiracy against MS. They have been doing good work in the past few weeks and they should be complimented. But that has nothing to do with a 'rumored' Sony tv partnership. This console war nonsense had no place in here but yet some people are still so salty from the Pre and Post E3 thrashing MS received that they will take any chance they can get.
Hatchetforce
Banned
Why wouldn't they be? You apparently fail to understand the difference between offering a side attraction on a game console versus making it the centerpiece. It's like Sony's camera for the PS4. It is there if you want it but you are not forced to buy it nor is it rammed down your throat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw
Also there is a chasm that exists between those that do something and those that do something right. It's a deep chasm as well so watch your step...
Omnistalgic
Member
I agree, but Netflix kinda sucks outside of some popular TV shows, at least for me. Every decent movie, no matter how old, any Disney movie, and plenty of cartoons are either not on netflix or you have to up your subscription to include the DVD rental option. A more well-rounded service is very welcome right about now.
I can't speak for Hulu/Amazon, haven't tried them out...
does Hulu even have a paid version that doesn't involve commercials though?
Didn't Sony pass on Kinect before it go to MS as well?
Why? What would happen?
ChosenPredator
Banned
I agree with you I think Sony is more of a cerebral assassin , more rico suave with how it brings these things. I although don't think anyone has beat anyone yet I'll probably wait a good 2 years before really seeing who is rocking their mojo full force once everything is known.
Penguins&PolarBears
Member
I think you forgot the Xbox and Xbox Live.
So the two exceptions to your rule are #1 Kinect and #2 Xbox -- the two devices which they are using to push their TV initiative.
Not even sure what you're arguing here. Unlike WebTV or MSNTV (both of which were fairly successful in their time) we know for a fact that Xbox One is going to sell tens of millions of units.
Also not sure why it matters if the ideas are old. Nearly all big tech ideas we're seeing today are things that Microsoft experimented with a decade ago. Tablet computers, smart phones, smart watches, etc. Sometimes technology is ahead of it's time. Oculus Rift isn't a new idea either, that doesn't mean it has no chance of success.
Kinect wasn't really a thing for Sony to pass on. There seems to be a misconception that Kinect is just completely bought technology, but it's not really true. MS bought 3DV systems (the company behind the hardware) but all the software "magic" that allows 3D vision, full body recognition, voice control etc.. is in house software created by Microsoft Research.
So yes Sony could have also bought the hardware but I think it's fair to say the software very likely wouldn't have been as advanced (simply due to one company specialising in software while the other specialises in hardware).
Though to actually answer the question, I don't believe 3DV ever had talks with Sony. Although I do recall Apple being a potential buyer.
vivftp
Member
Ever since I saw Sonys Video Unlimited service I always wondered why they went with a pay per movie experience rather than the Netflix model. I guess this answers the question. Very interested to see where this goes, although I don't think I'll be moving away from cable anytime soon unless Sony can somehow provide ethnic programming suitable for my parents. Will movies be included in this at all? I guess they'll have the best of all worlds if they do this plus retain Video Unlimited to handle newer movies.
Also, I wonder if they'll continue Crackle or just roll that into this whole project.
I wonder with all these services, will Sony just have one mega plan for everything in one? Maybe a bundle fee? You can get PS+, Music Unlimited and this IPTV service all together.
Also, I wonder if they'll continue Crackle or just roll that into this whole project.
I wonder with all these services, will Sony just have one mega plan for everything in one? Maybe a bundle fee? You can get PS+, Music Unlimited and this IPTV service all together.
Penguins&PolarBears
Member
IPTV doesn't solve the channel bundling problem in any way. Channels are owned by a handful of media conglomerates. The deals they sign with companies like Comcast or in this case Sony, requires that all of their channels be bundled together. How would Sony's IPTV change this? Viacom isn't going to say you can offer CBS, but you don't have to buy MTV and Nick and Showtime rights from us too. The crappy channels are going to be forced on Sony's subscribers too.
Is it just a uk thing where you buy packages based on genre?
If you have a sky sub you can pick up the kids channels for £1, or documentaries for £1 or sports for £20 or movies for £20.
Loooooool. Are you telling me that people outside the US have never seen/don't give a shit about shows like The Simpsons, Family Guy, LOST, Modern Family, etc? I don't think you realize how many shows (that are popular worldwide) are run by Fox and ABC alone.