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[Burbeting]

I haven't read much of the Spider-man comics, only seen spider man 1, 2 and ASM. I'm what you would call, very casual fan of spider man.

I do think the first two movies hold fairly well. They were very cheesy, but they did have shifts of tone to the darker when it was necessary. If nothing else, Sam Raimi is great at shifting tone without it feeling bad.

I did dislike MJ then, and I dislike her now. Not very well written, personality wasn't likable, and her job was to be a damsel in distress for most of the trilogy.

But in this post I want to talk about Tobey Maguire's Peter, and also Garfields. I haven't read the comics, so I only have very feeble understanding of the original character's characterisation, so I'll work with what the movies presented to me.

For the most part, I did like Spiderman 1/2 Peter. Yes, he was a loser and a nerd, but I felt like it worked here well. His characterisation kept the character grounded to reality in a movie that is otherwise very much cheese. I especially loved his interactions with aunt may.

He failed a lot, and was very imperfect. But also felt very human with his mistakes.

However, there was a big problem in that he was portrayed as an asshole for lot of the time, especially in Spider-man 3. This made it harder to root for him. Same problem was lot worse with Mary Jane. And yes, his geekyness was too much emphasised, to the point it was really hard to see him as being Spider-man, and not spider-man being some other random guy.

Then, comparing to Garfield's Spider-man, he definitely felt like he could easily be the super-hero. But his Peter Parker persona suffered in that he didn't feel like a geeky nerd at all. Instead we get these shots of him skateboarding, and playing Basketball like a champ. He felt more like a generic dudebro, than a nerdy guy than anything. Garfield did have great chemistry with Emma Stone though, that saved a lot.

So Tobey is a nerdy loser, maybe even too much, while Garfield is portrayed as awesomeMcCoolGuy. I guess I would want to see a Peter who is more in between of these two.

Tom Holland, if nothing else, looks like a high-school student. He didn't have enough screen time in Civil War that wasn't him making quips, so I'm saving judgement on how I like his version of Peter until I see homecoming at some point.

 

[JCHandsom]

This may be the reason I ain't a huge Batmam fan. Like his characters and villains outside of Joker, but Bruce Wayne ain't shit.

You should check out the Telltale Batman game then, there are some really cool character moments with Bruce that made me more interested in his character.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

It directly contradicts the ending of Begins, where it's made clear that Gotham and Bruce will always need Batman. That's his endgame. Then TDK comes along and all he cares about is Gotham not needing him anymore and giving it all up for Rachel.

It conflicts with the character they already established.

It doesn't because it shows growth.

That's, like, literally the whole part of Harvey Dent before he becomes Two-Face. Like, seriously, there's the White Knight and the Dark Knight. Both are capable of taking care of the city. The Dent Act in the third movie reinforces this.

 

[LionPride]

You should check out the Telltale Batman game then, there are some really cool character moments with Bruce that made me more interested in his character.

I like the game, the Bruce Wayne there still ain't shit but to a lesser degree

Maybe read the last page of this thread...we've been over it.

Yo it's Subpar Spatula don't even try

 

[AdanVC]

Not in a world where the Batman Arkham games exist.

Those are very good too! Oh well but at least back in 2004, Spidey 2 was the absolute best until Arkham lol

 

[Grisby]

2 is probably one of the best superhero movies ever made. The train sequence still hasn't been topped in a modern superhero movie yet IMO.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Maybe read the last page of this thread...we've been over it.

This appears to be the most descriptive critique of the character:

It bugs the shit outta me that Nolan Batman really didn't do that much shit, he kinda failed upwards for a year or two then disappeared for a while, comes back and fakes his death and then just peaces out with Catwoman for good lol

His obsession with Rachel was absolutely the low point of that take on the character.

What the fuck am I supposed to reason with here? There is nothing substantiated, there is no reasoning as to why these are bad except you declare them bad. You guys never went over anything.

 

[cr0w]

It doesn't because it shows growth.

That's, like, literally the whole part of Harvey Dent before he becomes Two-Face. Like, seriously, there's the White Knight and the Dark Knight. Both are capable of taking care of the city. The Dent Act in the third movie reinforces this.

You call it growth, I call it a complete reversal and misunderstanding of what made the first movie and the character work. The Dent act doesn't work because it was built and passed on a lie. There is no "white knight", he's a facade that falls apart when people know the truth. There will never be a perfect solution to Gotham's problems, as evidenced by Bruce's acknowledgment of the continual need for Batman to exist by passing it on to JGL. All Bruce wanted was to fuck off and drink wine with his girl, and that's 100% not Batman, regardless of how well you feel it works within the film series. It absolutely doesn't.

 

[Nerdkiller]

So now this has become a Nolan Batman thread...okay then.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

You can't because it makes no sense. It literally makes zero sense. You are criticizing a movie based off features the movie never had in the first place. Do you judge almonds for not having strawberry filling?

If the almond I'm eating is an adaptation of a recipe for almonds with strawberry filling, and this one lacks that but is an otherwise awesome almond, yes the fuck I am gonna dock it for that, even if I like it.

And there being worse examples of wire work doesn't make Fox's not atrocious.

Me even having to explain any of that is wild lmao

 

[Subpar Spatula]

You call it growth, I call it a complete reversal and misunderstanding of what made the first movie and the character work. The Dent act doesn't work because it was built and passed on a lie. There is no "white knight", he's a facade that falls apart when people know the truth. There will never be a perfect solution to Gotham's problems, as evidenced by Bruce's acknowledgment of the continual need for Batman to exist by passing it on to JGL. All Bruce wanted was to fuck off and drink wine with his girl, and that's 100% not Batman, regardless of how well you feel it works within the film series. It absolutely doesn't.

It's quite obvious by the bolded you're not understanding the movie for what it is but want it to be more Batman like that's an actual thing that can occur.

Everyone of worth knew the Dent Act was a lie. That's... the point?

You can want Batman to be endless and still have personal moments. That doesn't retract from the other.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

This appears to be the most descriptive critique of the character:



What the fuck am I supposed to reason with here? There is nothing substantiated, there is no reasoning as to why these are bad except you declare them bad. You guys never went over anything.

Nolan's Batman tries to give up as soon as he suffers a major loss, then at the end of the trilogy fakes his death and leaves Gotham. We don't like how that reflects on him as a hero who vowed to protect his city as long as there is crime around.

 

[Usobuko]

movies don't age like games, no, because they're movies and not games

but of course movies age. a good movie in 1980 might not be a good movie today.

You have it the opposite.

Video games aged like rotten cheese.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

If the almond I'm eating is an adaptation of a recipe for almonds with strawberry filling, and this one lacks that but is an otherwise awesome almond, yes the fuck I am gonna dock it for that, even if I like it.

And there being worse examples of wire work doesn't make Fox's not atrocious.

Me even having to explain any of that is wild lmao

Going by what you said, why should anyone actually take you seriously then if you're judging movies based off things that aren't in movies? This type of critique is super common so it's quite confusing to reason with. What is wrong with judging a work for what it is?

If you could explain why its atrocious, maybe you wouldn't be called out on it?

Nolan's Batman tries to give up as soon as he suffers a major loss, then at the end of the trilogy fakes his death and leaves Gotham. We don't like how that reflects on him as a hero who vowed to protect his city as long as there is crime around.

It's almost as if Batman isn't robotic and more human? It follows a very similar arc to Mask of Phantasm. No one had a problem there... but here. Ah nevermind, Batman or whatever iterated character will never fully meet your ideal criteria.

 

[Strike]

Spider-Man 2 is still the best Spider-Man movie.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

Yeah how did this become about the Nolan Batman films

 

[Figboy79]

I just wanted to chime in and say that Iron Man 3 was awesome. It's an underappreciated movie, and such a Shane Black movie, in both good and bad ways. Dude knows how to make a fun, entertaining movie, and Iron Man 3 was a great way to cap off the trilogy, although I'm pissed they went with a male villain instead of female, like they originally planned. That was a missed opportunity.

 

[LionPride]

Why thr fuck is this now a back and forth between people and SS?

Back to arguing about Spider-Man damn it!

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

Yeah how did this become about the Nolan Batman films

Lol, I think I brought them up first, sorry!

Back on track: I never realized until very recently (since I hadn't seen these in a decade) that Elizabeth Banks was Betty Brant. She didn't have much screentime but she was awesome in that role.

 

[Pavaloo]

Disagree, the acting from the two leads is sus for three straight movies, the villains themselves are...alright in terms of character, acting from them is good. Characterization for Peter makes him an annoying asswipe who gives up Spider-Man because he feels like it and his relationship with MJ ain't good. Never comes across as genuine. The movies are fine movies, but as a Spider-Man movie, I never got the core characteristics always found in Peter Parker as Spider-Man.

And hell 3 is fine too, if Raimi made the movie he wanted to make, it'd be another fine movie.

They had a whole impotent thing going on too in the original script, buf yeah he stopped being Spider-Man because he's sad he can't be with one woman. Fuck the Raimi Peter is a damn loser. Not a nerd or geek, a loser.

Nah man he couldn't hold a stable job, his Aunt couldn't afford to live in his childhood home because Uncle Ben died, he can't keep up with his classes in University, his best friend hates him, he's underpaid at the Bugle and they're always calling him a punk in the papers. That's all without MJ. It's like tried and true Peter Parker. He buckles under the weight of the world and decides to think about himself for once.

Here's a quote from an old Spider-Man 2 review thread:

"I think my favorite scene, and one that hasn't really been mentioned in this thread, is the high society event. It really brings all the conflicts to a head, piling the shit on Parker until it smothers him: The running gag with the orderves being just out of reach. Mary Jane's "empty seat" speech. A drunk Harry accusing his friend of betrayal and bitch slapping him twice for good measure. The engagement announcement. And to top it all off, Jameson barking for Peter to capture his misery in a photo, to be preserved for all time. I think it's a clear example of how tight the screenplay really was."

I generally agree with this. More than anything this thread shocks me for people saying Raimi's Peter isn't true Spider-Man. I get that he's not the modern one, but he's a spitting image of Romita's Spider-Man to me. Is it really 0-100 with quips? The hyperbole that he's a silent hero in these movies is disingenuous to me.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Yeah how did this become about the Nolan Batman films

People started talking about faithfulness to the character and director's vision and shit which naturally brought up Nolan Batman because much of that trilogy is driven by Nolan' unique take on the character and world.

 

[phanphare]

You have it the opposite.

Video games aged like rotten cheese.

follow the quotes, I never said they didn't

though video games with good performance age pretty well and 16-bit games, if they've got good art and gameplay and stuff, are as close to timeless as a video game can be

 

[Nev]

Best Marvel movies. I'd swap the entire "joke every two minutes and take nothing seriously" MCU for another Raimi/Tobey Spider-Man in a hearbeat.

I liked 3 too, found it thoroughly enjoyable and quite funny.

Loved how WW was so close to them in a lot of ways. First time in a long time I'm genuinely inspired by a fictional superhero, probably since SM2.

 

[LionPride]

Lol, I think I brought them up first, sorry!

Back on track: I never realized until very recently (since I hadn't seen these in a decade) that Elizabeth Banks was Betty Brant. She didn't have much screentime but she was awesome in that role.

She was good in her limited time, remembering she was Betty Brant is like when I realized Robin Wright was Jenny in Forrest gump and Buttercup in Princess Bride

Nah man he couldn't hold a stable job, his Aunt couldn't afford to live in his childhood home because Uncle Ben died, he can't keep up with his classes in University, his best friend hates him, he's underpaid at the Bugle and they're always calling him a punk in the papers. That's all without MJ. It's like tried and true Peter Parker. He buckles under the weight of the world and decides to think about himself for once.

Here's a quote from an old Spider-Man 2 review thread:

"I think my favorite scene, and one that hasn't really been mentioned in this thread, is the high society event. It really brings all the conflicts to a head, piling the shit on Parker until it smothers him: The running gag with the orderves being just out of reach. Mary Jane's "empty seat" speech. A drunk Harry accusing his friend of betrayal and bitch slapping him twice for good measure. The engagement announcement. And to top it all off, Jameson barking for Peter to capture his misery in a photo, to be preserved for all time. I think it's a clear example of how tight the screenplay really was."

I generally agree with this. More than anything this thread shocks me for people saying Raimi's Peter isn't true Spider-Man. I get that he's not the modern one, but he's a spitting image of Romita's Spider-Man to me. Is it really 0-100 with quips? The hyperbole that he's a silent hero in these movies is disingenuous to me.

Oh my bad, I was talking in general about his portrayals in the five movies thus far. Raimi got a few things right TASM got some things right.

 

[Blader]

Mary Jane being a generally awful person is also kind of strike against these movies

heh, she is consistently unfaithful across all three movies.

 

[Pavaloo]

She was good in her limited time, remembering she was Betty Brant is like when I realized Robin Wright was Jenny in Forrest gump and Buttercup in Princess Bride

Oh my bad, I was talking in general about his portrayals in the five movies thus far. Raimi got a few things right TASM got some things right.

Fair enough! (I can't wait for Homecoming where they'll likely get most of it right) I just see often see complaints of how he decides not to be SM anymore, but for me it was on point.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

Why thr fuck is this now a back and forth between people and SS?

Back to arguing about Spider-Man damn it!

Because they have weird logic lol

But meh. 7 hours till I see the movie that puts these two to bed forever.

 

[LionPride]

heh, she is consistently unfaithful across all three movies.

So like Spider-Man 1 she's dating Flash, hw's an asshole but they're still together. There's this loser who she's friends with who likes her but eh. Then this dude in a Spider costums comes along and saves her from being assaulted in an alley by five dudes, gets a kiss in the rain for his troubles. Gets kidnapped by some fuck in a green suit. Dropped off of a ceane amd some more shit. Kinda realizes Peter is Spider-Man after confessing her love for him and him saying no after getting a kiss.

Spider-Man 2, she's moved on to a fucking astronaut! He's a strapping young gent, a bit boring but better than that schmuck reading her poetry and shit. Can't even show up to her performance. Yuck. Then she gets kidnapped by a dude with metal arms that talk to him and shit, learns that schmuck is Spider-Man and falls back in love! And leaves her astronaut fiance at the altar...

Spider-Man 3 they're together and happy, until Peter becomes an asshole and starts liking Amnesiac Harry because he's not a psychopath anymore! Harry dies and Peter isn't an asshole, they reconcile.

 

[Pavaloo]

So like Spider-Man 1 she's dating Flash, hw's an asshole but they're still together. There's this loser who she's friends with who likes her but eh. Then this dude in a Spider costums comes along and saves her from being assaulted in an alley by five dudes, gets a kiss in the rain for his troubles. Gets kidnapped by some fuck in a green suit. Dropped off of a ceane amd some more shit. Kinda realizes Peter is Spider-Man after confessing her love for him and him saying no after getting a kiss.

Spider-Man 2, she's moved on to a fucking astronaut! He's a strapping young gent, a bit boring but better than that schmuck reading her poetry and shit. Can't even show up to her performance. Yuck. Then she gets kidnapped by a dude with metal arms that talk to him and shit, learns that schmuck is Spider-Man and falls back in love! And leaves her astronaut fiance at the altar...

Spider-Man 3 they're together and happy, until Peter becomes an asshole and starts liking Amnesiac Harry because he's not a psychopath anymore! Harry dies and Peter isn't an asshole, they reconcile.

Norman also basically calls her a hoe too lol

 

[Very Berry Sunday]

CGI in Spiderman 1 did not hold up. I agree with the rest.

 

[LionPride]

Norman also basically calls her a hoe too lol

"Do what you want with her and broom her fast" man said pump her and dump her like it was no big deal. Post formula Norman is a fucking asshole in that movie.

 

[cr0w]

Norman also basically calls her a hoe too lol

I don't know why I found this so funny. Goddamn.

Also there's something unmentioned that forever ruined Dunst's MJ in my opinion.

I mean goddamn. Switching to that wouldn't take any thought.

 

[Host Samurai]

It's aged great because of that timeless aesthetic the film uses is how many people invisioned Spider-Man growing up. They even considered having Green Goblin looking more like his classic self.

 

[Shredderi]

Yeah I just rewatched them both and still love them, especially 2.

 

[Bold One]

2 is probably one of the best superhero movies ever made. The train sequence still hasn't been topped in a modern superhero movie yet IMO.

THe entire sequence is excellent from the clokc tower all the way to the trains.

The behind the scenes of the creation of Doc Ock is amazing - so well realised

 

[phanphare]

It's aged great because of that timeless aesthetic the film uses is how many people invisioned Spider-Man growing up. They even considered having Green Goblin looking more like his classic self.

wat

 

[Toa TAK]

You are correct, OP.

Power Ranger Goblin included. Loved it as a kid.

wat

Oh God.

How do you not know what he's talking about at this point in the 500th Spider-Man thread here?

 

[phanphare]

Oh God.

How do you not know what he's talking about at this point in the 500th Spider-Man thread here?

oh that

I never realized that was for the Raimi movies lol

carry on then

 

[Sephzilla]

heh, she is consistently unfaithful across all three movies.

She's quietly the fourth supervillain of Spider-Man 3

 

[Toa TAK]

oh that

I never realized that was for the Raimi movies lol

carry on then

Good man.

 

[Solo]

They stand up so well because they are very well written, focus on character development and Peter's arc above all else, are completely sincere to a fault (read: not actually a fault, far from it), tackle the theme of what it truly means to be a hero, and in doing all of the aforementioned exquisitely, completely, totally, wholly earn the big emotional moments in a way no other comic book movies aside from maybe Nolan's Batman movies do. They (S-M2 in particular) are great films. You don't even need to "comic book" or "superhero"qualifiers.

Peter's arc in S-M2 is the single best arc ever in a comic book movie, both in terms of concept and especially in the execution of it.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

That's what I would say is the biggest thing the Raimi movies accomplished. The big emotional moments feel earned.

 

[LionPride]

I remember there being heavy rumors that the dude who played Ben's killer in SM1 was only coming back for SM3 to be revealed as Cletus Cassidy

Rumors were wild

 

[Spinluck]

The Incredibles
Batman Begins/TDK
Spider-Man 2

Best in the genre.

 

[Prompto]

They stand up so well because they are very well written, focus on character development and Peter's arc above all else, are completely sincere to a fault (read: not actually a fault, far from it), tackle the theme of what it truly means to be a hero, and in doing all of the aforementioned exquisitely, completely, totally, wholly earn the big emotional moments in a way no other comic book movies aside from maybe Nolan's Batman movies do. They (S-M2 in particular) are great films. You don't even need to "comic book" or "superhero"qualifiers.

Peter's arc in S-M2 is the single best arc ever in a comic book movie, both in terms of concept and especially in the execution of it.

Peter goes through more character development in Spider-Man 2 alone than most superheroes do in multiple films. The supporting cast as well is superb. They all feel like individual people with their own lives going on who also grow as characters instead of just people who are simply connected to Peter.

 

[itwasTuesday]

I don't know why I found this so funny. Goddamn.

Also there's something unmentioned that forever ruined Dunst's MJ in my opinion.

I mean goddamn. Switching to that wouldn't take any thought.

 

[jon bones]

that gif makes me so glad Tom Holland is 21

 

[farisr]

I'd say Green Goblin has actually aged pretty horribly in Spider-Man and I love that movie. The rest of the movie is fine though. And Spider-Man 2 even effects wise holds up for the most part.

 

[Sojgat]

The Incredibles
Batman Begins/TDK
Spider-Man 2

Best in the genre.

I can't be alone in thinking Blade 2 is better than all of those.

 

[matt360]

Would you all say that the Raimi Spider-Man movies get more topics and go through more scrutiny than any other movie series, save for maybe Star Wars, here on GAF? I find it all to be very interesting.

That said, Spider-Man 1 and 2 are fucking amazing. They are the most "comic book-y" comic book movies you'll ever see. The characterizations are impeccable. The way that the cops are all idiots and all of the main characters don't quite act or speak like people actually would in those situations. They all ham it up, but never go over the top. The music is perfect. The editing is fantastic. I could go on all day.

The reason why Spider-Man 3 sucked so bad has nothing to do with the multiple villains. It's mostly because they messed up the characterizations that were so perfect in Spider-Man 1 and 2. Spidey 3 started off well, but the way the characters started acting was more akin to how the characters acted in Batman and Robin. Way too over-the-top. They stopped being the characters we had come to know in 1 and 2, and they turned into jokes of themselves. Elfman was also sorely missed. Some of the music in 3 really, really sucked. Again, I could compare a lot of the music in Spider-Man 3 to stuff that I heard in Batman and Robin.