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[MrHoot]

I agree with you. Am I misinterpreting the Mary Sue comment?

The Mary Sue thing was mostly a poke to the writing of the character of how she conveniently has all the skills, some of them out of nowhere, to get out of all situations. For me it wasn't the force or engineering (both of these make sense) but her being suddenly an expert pilote i was like "eeeeeh really ? She never flew a flying craft before in her life". You could probably go "But the force" for justification, but as movie writing goes it did seem awfully too convenient on the total length. It's also slightly to the detriment of other characters like Finn, or Ren for instance which gets a bit more undermined that he should've been I think on the last fight (still, I really liked that last fight).

I dunno. I don't hate her character at all, she was fine. But she didn't do anything for me in comparison to Finn and Ren just because she coasted through most of the movie, way more than Luke in the OT in my opinion, and right now my main interest in her is due to her association with certain characters and potential arc. I'm just hoping for a big shake-up in episode 8, like in ESB for luke, where we really see her as a person for her strengths and weaknesses, and not just for cool factor.

Daisy Ridley was great as her though. I think she was a great choice for such a character. In general i'm very happy with the casting. I think people who were calling boyega "weird" were freaking crazy even, I really liked his Finn

 

[kitzkozan]

Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back? I think that's the only live action thing I've seen him in aside from SW.

He played in an live action version of the anime Guyver and he was absolutely atrocious in it lol. I laughed my ass off with that one, so that's why I remember ever seeing that piece of shit.

 

[RyanW]

Believe me there are many thing in your life that you haven't try it yet even it is very close to you.

[Insert Anal Joke Here]


edit: and somebody beat me to it

 

[Dalek]

So, Finn probably isn't force sensitive?

No and that's fine. He was a cool guy. I really liked his character. He had more heart than anyone in the PT. Someone like him was sorely missing in those movies.

 

[SixMachine]

Ya, ok.

Luke making an impossible shot is tooootaally more believable than Rey pulling off a Jedi Mind trick on a weak-minded soldier and then fighting an (injured) Ren with a lightsaber competently, after it has been established she is experienced in melee weapons.

I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Agree to disagree I guess.

It probably is just me, but when I was a kid, I always assumed proton torpedoes can just curve. In the Rogue Squadron games, you can lock on and they follow the target, so when people point out the scene, I never really know what's so world-breaking about that moment. Though I remember the trench runs in that game, the impossible part was getting through that shit without crashing. Even worse was Rogue Squadron 2 when you had to go inside Death Star v2 in the Millenium Falcon and try to thread a goddamn needle in that thing.

 

[LegalEagleMike]

So was Billie Lourd's character suppose to be Leia's daughter?? She always seemed to be with Leia in the Resistance HQ and was waving to the Falcon in the front row with Leia, 3PO, etc at the end.

No, shes just there to make Carrie happy.

 

[Branduil]

I wish the Rey character was more like...

Now that's a bad strong female lead.

Ten felt like a boss character that never got hurt or could hurt. Like she was invisible.

She got incapacitated multiple times but I guess that doesn't count for some reason.

 

[NimbusD]

Saw it a second time, even better than the first time!

I also read the vehicle cross section book that had a crazy amount of info about the governments. So in the book it mentions that the new class of star destroyer is a violation of the weapons treaty the republic had with the first order. which means the first order is a legal government entity recognized by the republic.

The first order was formed in the "unknown territories", this is where they built Starkiller base, trained all the children and builtall their ships to hide it from the republic. They don't have infinite funds like the empire has so they needed to focus more on protecting their investments. The book says that unlike the empire they don't view their pilots as expendable, so the new TIEs have built in shields. The book makes mention that they have far fewer resources than the empire. Because they can't build so many star destroyers they made sure to fix the flaw from ended, so now there is an emergency bridge inside the ship in case the top one is blow up.

Now the resistance is explained as well. Leia knows the first order is run by Snoke, the republic doesn't believe a Sith Lord is running this new group, in fact the republic doesn't know of any of the illegal operations the first order is running. So Leia gets support from all her close friends in the republic to form the resistance. They use whatever ships they can salvage, the transport she arrives in is a modified b-wing for instance. She has no capital ships, it's just a small group of... Rebels basically.

There is a bunch of cool stuff about the Falcon and the freighter Han owns. The falcon has a special room as a wedding gift for Leia. On the freighter There is a mysterious cargo container that has always been locked and Han doesn't know the code so it just sits there unopened. It talks about the falcon ownership line and a few thinks Han and Chewie were doing as smugglers.

Ugh the books have such important for nformation. Necessary fucking information,but they were too focused on directly mimicking a new hope and stearing so far clear of the prequels that they didn't want to mention a single thing about the politics of the system.big mistake.it worked for a new hope because it was a new universe without any baggage.but lets be real, this is a gigantic universe now and things need to be accounted for in a giant saga like this.I mean,ultimately I can forgive it because they aimed for a fun romp,and nailed it,but its a hugely flawed film for that, and the most frustrating thing is the flaws seem to be solely them shooting themselves in the foot by being too conservative.

 

[Jarmel]

Was Maz's castle in the same system as Hosnian Prime? You can see the planet break up in the background after being hit by the Starkiller beam.

 

[Brakke]

All I want in my life is Episode VIII to start with Rey "so do I talk first or you?".

[Insert Anal Joke Here]

Very glad I'm not the only one that thought that lol.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

I meant on any of the free vid services like youtube etc... -.-

cant find any

I tried to look for the ending on YouTube and other sites but couldn't find it. I did however find this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6P5cL1kpZc

Good enough, right?

 

[soldat7]

I never said that Rey's ability to handle herself made her a lightsaber expert. Just that she was much more capable and streetwise than Luke was at the beginning of his story. I agree that her sudden expertise at the lightsaber was silly.

I bet she practiced for that fight her entire life. Just like we all have.

 

[SeanR1221]

So did everyone's audience clap at EVERYTHING?

Classic character shows up? Clap.

Big action scene? Clap.

 

[JTripper]

This is starting to take on a weird undercurrent like the bowcaster is some anal sex metaphor.

Chewy is hairy enough to handle it too.

 

[Tamanon]

Was Maz's castle in the same system as Hosnian Prime? You can see the planet break up in the background after being hit by the Starkiller beam.

It doesn't seem that way. The whole seeing planets exploding and giant laser beams was silly. It made it look like everything was in the same system.

 

[Jarmel]

So did everyone's audience clap at EVERYTHING?

Classic character shows up? Clap.

Big action scene? Clap.

Was irritating as fuck tonight.

 

[AxelFoley]

If that bugs you, you don't even want to know about Star Trek's "red matter"
Star Wars was never big on the whole science thing anyway. Neither is JJ Abrams for that matter.

Just looked up red matter. Holy smokes!

 

[meanspartan]

The smallest stars in our galaxy are like fourteen times the mass of Jupiter but those are barely even stars so, much bigger than that.

This is easy. JJ literally doesn't know anything about astronomy. And he doesn't care so that's fine I guess whatever. Just means we gotta take everything as magic and totally physically incoherent. Starkiller base makes no sense in any aspect and any attempt to project anything about how it works is doomed.

I long questioned how Hyperspace works and how long it takes to get from place to place and how the fuck did the Falcon get to Cloud CIty with no hyperdrive in less than many many years? Did it just HAPPEN to be that close? Remember, even our fastest probes in real life take like a decade to get out of our solar system, let alone a galaxy.

You know what I concluded? Just let it go. Realize that hyperspace in Star Wars or just travel in general move at precisely one speed- what the plot requires.

 

[LegalEagleMike]

Was Maz's castle in the same system as Hosnian Prime? You can see the planet break up in the background after being hit by the Starkiller beam.

not even close, JJ strikes again with his space magic

 

[Kssio_Aug]

People seem to forget that Rey spent most of the fight on the defensive and Ren had the upper hand for like 90% of their duel

Only at the end when she has her "Use the Force, Luke" moment, does she become aggressive and outclasses Ren

This, and as well said by Christine:

The wound Kylo takes from Chewie's bowcaster isn't incidental, it's an immediate retribution and consequence of murdering his father. It's both literally and symbolically crippling him in the subsequent fights in a direct narrative through-line.

If Kylo had been anywhere near 100%, the fight would never have lasted long enough for Rey to find her crisis and apotheosis. If Finn hadn't been there, she just gets thrown against a tree and defeated nearly instantly, even so. She might be powerful, but if she'd been without help she would have lost.

Kylo was stronger than Rey at that point, she won the fight thanks to a bunch of factors that gave her an advantage. She is very strong, and certainly will become more powerful than Kylo Ren soon (although he will complete his train aswell), but she didn't defeat him by thanks to her strength alone.

 

[Fata1moose]

So did everyone's audience clap at EVERYTHING?

Classic character shows up? Clap.

Big action scene? Clap.

My theater only clapped when the scroll came up and for Han Solo that was it, which I liked.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

I know he's well respected for his work in animated series, but he isn't particularly well regarded for playing more serious characters.

I just think an old Luke seems like an important character, like Yoda was in the original trilogy. I would expect a lot of scenes just involving Rey and Luke together, talking, training, whatnot. Wouldn't it be important for Luke to embody this character, one who is completely changed from the one he played before, with the kind of grace and range that usually comes from a veteran actor. I just wonder if he can pull it off because Daisy Ridley is outstanding.

You're killing me here. First by implying that voice work= can't be serious. Then you reference Yoda who was voiced by Frank Oz.

I can only imagine a Speevy writing into a fanzine in 1979 asking "do we really think someone best know for voicing Miss Piggie can handle the all important role of Jedi Master?"

not even close, JJ strikes again with his space magic

Do we actually know this? I mean is there a galactic map or something else that actually lays out any of this geography?

 

[MikeDown]

So torn on this movie; still digesting it, so my opinion might change.

Basically in terms of cinematography & story I felt like they should have been slowed down, giving context and making the story simple to follow. Also I didn't like some of the call backs to the OT, the prequels were their own thing, this wasn't.

Think they did a really good job with Snoke, there is this whole vibe around him that feels ancient and other worldly. Also Harrison Ford sucked the life out of this movie despite doing his best to act & give his character some life.




Also did they blow up Corusant? That is one thing that was never really explained is the political landscape of the galaxy. Who are the Resistance? Who are the Republic? What part of space does the Order control?

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

So did everyone's audience clap at EVERYTHING?

Classic character shows up? Clap.

Big action scene? Clap.

Where I was people cheered and clapped during the opening theme, revealing of the Millennium Falcon, Han Solo, and when Kylo took of his helmet and we see his face.

Other than that there were just laughter from various scenes.

 

[munchie64]

I know he's well respected for his work in animated series, but he isn't particularly well regarded for playing more serious characters.

I just think an old Luke seems like an important character, like Yoda was in the original trilogy. I would expect a lot of scenes just involving Rey and Luke together, talking, training, whatnot. Wouldn't it be important for Luke to embody this character, one who is completely changed from the one he played before, with the kind of grace and range that usually comes from a veteran actor. I just wonder if he can pull it off because Daisy Ridley is outstanding.

He's done some serious voice work and a fair amount of stage stuff like Amadeus. Granted both of those require less subtlety than film by their very nature, but to say he's not very good from barely knowing his career is crazy.

Also he's awesome in Flash

 

[JTripper]

Think they did a really good job with Snoke, there is this whole vibe around him that feels ancient and other worldly. Also Harrison Ford sucked the life out of this movie despite doing his best to act & give his character some life.

I couldn't disagree more.

 

[UberTag]

Also I just got to say, Harrison really killed it in this.

He actually put some effort into this role unlike most of his work in the past decade

I would agree with this statement had I not watched 42 a while back. Harrison surprised the hell out of me with his supporting role in that flick. But yeah, most of his other films have been trite phoned-in garbage.

I suppose it helps that he was extra motivated for this flick seeing how his salary is 38 times more than Daisy Ridley and John Boyega COMBINED.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

This is starting to take on a weird undercurrent like the bowcaster is some anal sex metaphor.

I swear I didn't mean it that way!

Spoiler

I promise, maybe.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Using the Bowcaster wasn't just a "laugh here" moment. It was also to set up Ren getting shot by it at the end. Supposed to show that he was in a weakened state and also absurdly strong. He just took a direct gut(?) shot from a gun that kills almost everything from hitting near it.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

So did everyone's audience clap at EVERYTHING?

Classic character shows up? Clap.

Big action scene? Clap.

Thank god nothing of that happened when I watched!

I feel like people really enjoyed it giving some reactions (like crying when Han Solo dies, or getting surprised when him and Luke shows up; or just laughing at some Finn lines), but there was no clap in any scene. Everything was smooth as butter!

 

[Psychoward]

So did everyone's audience clap at EVERYTHING?

Classic character shows up? Clap.

Big action scene? Clap.

thankfully not, someone tried to clap when the credits rolled and quickly stopped when they realized no one was joining in lol

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

Using the Bowcaster wasn't just a laugh here moment. It was also to set up Ren getting shot by it at the end. Supposed to show that he was in a weakened state and also absurdly strong. He just took aa direct gut? shot from a gun that kills almost everything from hitting near it.

What a Gary Stu!

thankfully not, someone tried to clap when the credits rolled and quickly stopped when they realized no one was joining in lol

I clapped at the ending. Only a few did, but enough for us to keep going.

The most clapping was done during opening theme and when a bunch of Storm Troopers came into the theater.

 

[Naughty_Doge]

My quick thoughts on seeing it on opening day

+ great return to the look and feel of the originals
+ great action, pacing, cinematography, design, and colours, especially the visual design around the First Order
+ really liked the Kylo Ren, Rey, and Poe characters, Ren in particular (I didn't like the character or performance of Finn as much unfortunately)
+ BB8 was a great emotive sidekick.

- Han suddenly becoming interested in Chewie's bowcaster weapon. You've been kicking around together for like 30 years and only NOW you decide you want to try it out?
- the galaxy just feels so small, as you can seemingly get anywhere in minutes (or seconds!). This is a crime from the prequels. And makes the whole "map showing convoluted secret path to get to Luke" seem pointless.
- Snoke CGI was visibly worse than everything else. Why use CG at all for the character? Even worse, design reminded me of Azog from the Hobbit.
- what a missed opportunity Phasma was. She might be returning, but they didn't set up the character well here at all.

Overall, 7/10, well executed and solidly entertaining, but nothing blew me away or surprised me. I think the trailers spoiled what would have been a lot of great moments if revealed during the watch, like the X-Wings coming in over the lake. Will be there for opening day for Episode 8.

Yup, that was pretty stupid. At least I thought he was gonna comment on it as some sort of joke but nope.

Another thing I found silly was how Kylo, while reading Rey's mind, discovered she saw Han Solo aa a father figure. Gurl, you've only known the guy for a couple of hours and I didn't see anything on screen that indicated that prior to that scene.

 

[EdReedFan20]

He's done some serious voice work and a fair amount of stage stuff like Amadeus. Granted both of those require less subtlety than film by their very nature, but to say he's not very good from barely knowing his career is crazy.

Also he's awesome in Flash

He was also good in his small role in Kingsman: The Secret Service.

 

[JTripper]

when Kylo took of his helmet and we see his face.

Seems like a weird thing to clap for. My theater clapped for the crawl, the Falcon, Han and Chewie, C3PO (not Leia), R2, and when Rey first turned on the lightsaber after using the force to grab it from the snow.

 

[Afrodium]

One of the criticisms really getting under my skin is the whole "Rey is just a Mary Sue" thing, made by Max Landis among others.

I think that's a horseshit thing to say and frankly, nobody would be saying it if Finn did all the same things Rey did. It didn't bother me in the slightest that she capably fought Ren or picked up on Force abilities so fast because:

1. In all likelihood, she is a Skywalker. Force powers are strong with her, and it literally "awakened" within her.

2. Given her brawl on Jakku, she clearly had fought before plenty of times, with weapons that seem like they give skills transferable to lightsaber combat. And I mean OT grounded lightsaber combat, not the stupid choreographed dance bullshit we saw in the prequels.

3. Kylo Ren is not Darth Vader. He is basically fronting, with incomplete training, an uncontrollable temper, and probably little actual combat experience that isnt against unarmed people he terrorizes. This isn't a criticism, I fucking love that they gave us a complicated and realistic character as a villain, and I think he will totally become much more of a threat.

Rey is no more a Mary Sue than countless other movie protagonists. In other genres or films, her talents here would seem bullshitty. But star wars is fantasy first and foremost, and there is nothing wrong in this context with Rey doing what she did.

It's not just that she's good with The Force for unexplained reasons, but that she's good at everything else too. She's an ace pilot, great mechanic, and adept at hand-to-hand combat. She has no character flaws and is easily able to do pretty much everything. That's the definition of a Mary Sue.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

So, just got back from round 2.

I now am really thinking Rey is a Kenobi, despite all of her Skywalker like traits.

 

[meanspartan]

So torn on this movie; still digesting it, so my opinion might change.

Basically in terms of cinematography & story I felt like they should have been slowed down, giving context and making the story simple to follow. Also I didn't like some of the call backs to the OT, the prequels were their own thing, this wasn't.

Think they did a really good job with Snoke, there is this whole vibe around him that feels ancient and other worldly. Also Harrison Ford sucked the life out of this movie despite doing his best to act & give his character some life.

Haha I totally disagree, on both of those points.

I really REALLY disliked Snoke. I thought he was a lame Emperor pretender made entirely of CG, like a remaining stain they forgot to wash off from the prequel era

I guess it might be cool if he turns out to be Plagueis like some are predicting, but honestly if early on in the next one Kylo cuts him down after finsihing training, I'd be fine with that.

Harrison Ford rocked it, straight up.

 

[JTripper]

Using the Bowcaster wasn't just a laugh here moment. It was also to set up Ren getting shot by it at the end. Supposed to show that he was in a weakened state and also absurdly strong. He just took aa direct gut? shot from a gun that kills almost everything from hitting near it.

Plus him pounding the fuck out of his wound couldn't have helped out either. But part of me thinks that the pain from the wound would strengthen his anger thus making him even more wild and powerful.

 

[aceface]

Ugh the books have such important for nformation. Necessary fucking information,but they were too focused on directly mimicking a new hope and stearing so far clear of the prequels that they didn't want to mention a single thing about the politics of the system.big mistake.it worked for a new hope because it was a new universe without any baggage.but lets be real, this is a gigantic universe now and things need to be accounted for in a giant saga like this.I mean,ultimately I can forgive it because they aimed for a fun romp,and nailed it,but its a hugely flawed film for that, and the most frustrating thing is the flaws seem to be solely them shooting themselves in the foot by being too conservative.

I disagree, no one cares about that stuff, they just want to see an exciting movie.

Leave it for the books and Anthology movies and ancillary TV shows.

 

[Jarmel]

Yup, that was pretty stupid. At least I thought he was gonna comment on it as some sort of joke but nope.

Another thing I found silly was how Kylo, while reading Rey's mind, discovered she saw Han Solo aa a father figure. Gurl, you've only known the guy for a couple of hours and I didn't see anithing on screen that indicated that prior tp that scene.

Obi-Wan syndrome.

 

[Speevy]

He was also good in his small role in Kingsman: The Secret Service.

That I have seen, and no he's fucking not.

 

[Anoregon]

So did everyone's audience clap at EVERYTHING?

Classic character shows up? Clap.

Big action scene? Clap.

I just had some stupid fucking kid behind me loudly ask "WHO'S THAT" every time a character was shown for the first time. Terrible fucking parents barely tossed him a token "sshh" once or twice.

 

[Branduil]

Gary Stu is an every worse term than Mary Sue.

Fuck I hate this trope already.

The only problem is people who have no idea what it means. Watch Sword Art Online and then you can talk about Mary/Gary Stus.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Luke uses the force to blow up the Death Star while piloting a fighter he never used before that day.

Wut?

Luke: "I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than that."

Red Leader: (Speaking to Luke) "Are you sure you can handle this ship?"
Biggs: "Sir, Luke is the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim territories."
Red Leader: "You'll do alright."

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Saw it a second time, even better than the first time!

I also read the vehicle cross section book that had a crazy amount of info about the governments. So in the book it mentions that the new class of star destroyer is a violation of the weapons treaty the republic had with the first order. which means the first order is a legal government entity recognized by the republic.

The first order was formed in the "unknown territories", this is where they built Starkiller base, trained all the children and builtall their ships to hide it from the republic. They don't have infinite funds like the empire has so they needed to focus more on protecting their investments. The book says that unlike the empire they don't view their pilots as expendable, so the new TIEs have built in shields. The book makes mention that they have far fewer resources than the empire. Because they can't build so many star destroyers they made sure to fix the flaw from ended, so now there is an emergency bridge inside the ship in case the top one is blow up.

Now the resistance is explained as well. Leia knows the first order is run by Snoke, the republic doesn't believe a Sith Lord is running this new group, in fact the republic doesn't know of any of the illegal operations the first order is running. So Leia gets support from all her close friends in the republic to form the resistance. They use whatever ships they can salvage, the transport she arrives in is a modified b-wing for instance. She has no capital ships, it's just a small group of... Rebels basically.

There is a bunch of cool stuff about the Falcon and the freighter Han owns. The falcon has a special room as a wedding gift for Leia. On the freighter There is a mysterious cargo container that has always been locked and Han doesn't know the code so it just sits there unopened. It talks about the falcon ownership line and a few thinks Han and Chewie were doing as smugglers.

And suddenly a lot of things make sense. I guess they were afraid of the backlash the PT got for its politics stuff.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

Seems like a weird thing to clap for. My theater clapped for the crawl, the Falcon, Han and Chewie, C3PO (not Leia), R2, and when Rey first turned on the lightsaber after using the force to grab it from the snow.

Eh it wasn't thunderous, just a few people called and cheered because they wanted to know who was under the mask. I think The crawl, the Falcon, and Han & Chewie are universally the most often clapped for lol.

Edit: meant is wasn't thunderous mah bahd.

 

[Brakke]

I long questioned how Hyperspace works and how long it takes to get from place to place and how the fuck did the Falcon get to Cloud CIty with no hyperdrive in less than many many years? Did it just HAPPEN to be that close? Remember, even our fastest probes in real life take like a decade to get out of our solar system, let alone a galaxy.

You know what I concluded? Just let it go. Realize that hyperspace in Star Wars or just travel in general move at precisely one speed- what the plot requires.

Yep totally. The one thing I'll grant the original trilogy on this score is that distance still has *some* weight even if it's nebulous. Luke and Obi chill on the Falcon for long enough to get in some saber training in IV. In V, imperials come out of hyperspace far enough away from Hoth that the Rebels detect them and prepare an evacuation. So distance and travel aren't insurmountable barriers like they are in our world, but they do at least get acknowledged.

And nonsense science in the OT isn't a disaster because they never use it pull anything off. Han approaches Starkiller at lightspeed, no? That's like, the reason he's able to accomplish his thing. If you're going to cheat the science into complete nonsense, don't hang plot points on it.

 

[meanspartan]

It's not just that she's good with The Force for unexplained reasons, but that she's good at everything else too. She's an ace pilot, great mechanic, and adept at hand-to-hand combat. She has no character flaws and is easily able to do pretty much everything. That's the definition of a Mary Sue.

Maybe I'm being defensive, but I do think there is a touch of arrogance to her, which could be a liability in a rematch against a more powerful Ren.

 

[jackdoe]

Wut?

Luke: "I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than that."

Red Leader: "Are you sure you can handle this ship?"
Biggs: "Sir, Luke is the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim territories."
Red Leader: "You'll do alright."

That's like upgrading from a dustcropper to an F-22.