I dunno... If you really go back and watch the OT, they move hella fast (thank you Life Is Strange). They really do though. The plot moves incredibly quickly and they are all very simple stories that take place across a few key scenes in a few key locations. They're not 3 hour epics that dwell too long on any one issue or in any one place. To me TFA is exactly what a Star Wars film should be and what the best ones have always been.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
I dunno... If you really go back and watch the OT, they move hella fast (thank you Life Is Strange). They really do though. The plot moves incredibly quickly and they are all very simple stories that take place across a few key scenes in a few key locations. They're not 3 hour epics that dwell too long on any one issue or in any one place. To me TFA is exactly what a Star Wars film should be and what the best ones have always been.
LegalEagleMike
Member
Rey would be the least whiny Skywalker with the Force we have seen. I mean she gets a little whiny about the lightsaber at first but that is nothing compared to the rest of the family.
And the movie goes to great lengths to show the audience that the Bowcaster is a very powerful weapon.
Harrison delivered that line perfectly!
The Librarian
Banned
How is she whiny in regards to the lightsaber?
FlashbladeGAF
Member
"Oh, you're cold?"
Some could say her rejecting the lightsaber is out of character, but she just saw a walking nightmare and his best friends kill a bunch of dudes. I'd complain then run away too.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Right after she touches it for the first time?
Kylo Ren probably could have turned the tide of that fight if he was supposed to go in the for the kill with Rey. There was a lot of weight to his attack but nothing anywhere near as ferocious as his swings against Finn. The guy was just too emotionally weak and physically damaged to capture Rey at that point in the movie.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Havnt you ever noticed in fiction (and real life) the kids growing up being treated like shit, shoved in broom closets, and overall completely deprived of nice things tend to grow up to be the heros/warriors of light/good peopl (Harry Potter, Matilda, ect) where as those who group up with good loving parrents who spoil there kids with niceness tend to growup to be assholes/evil villans/Hitlers.
Whiny? She's terrified by what the force is thrusting upon her. The lightsaber is merely symbolic of responsibility that is being thrust on her. Even the final shot of the movie mirrors this.
Just wondering, how strong do people think Kylo Ren is?
He seems to be getting a lot of flak because a "stormtrooper janitor" actually cut him, and then get's beat by a "newbie force user" who just awakened her force powers for a day or so.
While at the end of the film Snoke finally reveals Kylo's training is indeed incomplete, it makes me wonder, considering Luke Skywalker in "Empire Strikes Back" was deemed in complete by Yoda as well, how would have the apprentice and padawan fared fighting against each other?
So Kylo Ren vs Luke Skywalker (ESB)
Thoughts?
Kylo can freeze energy and time and would be uninjured, Luke still wouldn't have had any swordplay training unlike Rey or Finn, Kylo would easily cream him. Kylo's strength just feels so much lesser than what it really is because of just how messed up he was in that final fight. But even then, if Kylo Ren wanted to kill Rey instead of capture her, I could see it happening.
Well despite the lack of Luke's lightsaber training, he STILL wasn't getting sliced up in his fight againt Vader which was pretty much 65-75% lightsaber duelling...
Yep. Ford was really good as Solo.
Vader also has robot arms.
YUP, best joke in the movie by far.
It's exactly how ANH was written in terms of Luke being Vader's son and Leia's brother. Who in the right mind would make brothers make out in the movie, no?
AlphaStriker
Member
And people say that Harrison phoned it in...
The difference being that Vader was testing and playing with Luke throughout that entire fight until the last minute or so when he goes full ham, while in this scenario, Kylo probably wouldn't be doing that and would be going for the kill.
The Librarian
Banned
Who is saying rejecting the lightsaber is out of character? That doesn't make much sense! It's ENTIRELY in character. She rejects it because she's afraid by embracing the lightsaber means she'll be giving up on her family.
Plus what she saw would scare just about anyone, as you said.
The minority maybe. Harrison's best acting in years, and the best acting of the movie.
The Librarian
Banned
Something tells me some of you need to look up the definition of "whiny."
Kylo Ren shows incredible raw power in the Force Awakens. Even Vader can't directly rip thoughts from people's minds; if he could, he wouldn't be using the torture droid to interrogate Leia.
Kylo Ren loses against an untrained opponent because
- He's fucking shot.
- The moment he's no longer in control, he loses his balls. Kylo Ren is a character all about putting up a tough image to cover up his insecurities. This is reflected in his visual design: He puts on a Darth Vader-esque mask for no reason but to cover his unimpressive face. That is why, even though he shows more raw power than Luke did in ESB, I think Luke from that movie would still beat him: Because Kylo Ren's greatest weakness is that underneath his whole Darth Vader persona, he's just a whiny kid.
- Also because Rey has the Force and embraces it.
The former I completely agree with, but the latter? Not even close.
Oh I don't know about that. Boyega and Ridley were both phenomenal.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I feel like you guys aren't remembering RotJ very well. The duel starts with Luke dominating Vader, then moves to Luke playing with Vader, then Vader pisses Luke off and Luke goes ham.
LegalEagleMike
Member
ehh maybe i should have put emotional. Then again I was saying that she barely showed any outward emotional distress compared to the rest of the Skywalker family.
Well who then. I thought Finn was great as well. But I just don't think anyone quite came as close to him. He bore a lot of weight of his past character, and the emotions of events that happened over the time lapse.
If I had to rank.
Harrison > Boyega > Ridley
I wouldn't call the OT fast-paced at all. It has fast transitions between acts, but the first hour of ANH is basically exposition, characterization, & world-building. Everything gets just enough explanation while still leaving some stuff to the imagination. TFA is a good movie, but everything is just action-action-action with not much room to breathe.
If the theory about Rey being somebody-so-and-so (either a Skywalker/Kenobi/Jedi initiate) that had her memories of the force wiped, it would even make double sense for those visions to be evermore traumatic for her. Like ripping off a healed scab. But of course, that's just one possibility of many.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
In ESB she sensed him only because Luke willed it.
A New Hope starts rather slowly with the Droids, and only speeds up once they reach Mos Eisley.
Fancy Clown
Member
Adam Driver gave the best performance
I feel like this isn't said enough. This was easily Chewie's best movie - he had great action scenes, got lots of laughs, and his rage freakout at the end was perfect. They also nailed the costume and mask. In Revenge of the Sith he looked like a person in a costume. Here he was a believable creature.
I also loved how they handled his sound design. When he's going around planting the explosives he sounds like a panting dog, and you can hear him sort of sniff the air when things start to go bad. I don't remember them doing this in the OT, or maybe it's just harder to hear on home video.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
He eventually learns how.
"So... You have a Twinn seeestah. Your feelings have now betrayed her too."
Also this
But most of that is probably robot hands. Maybe he forced Han to aim there.
Digital-Hero
Member
Astral Dog
Member
We dont know anything about Kylo Ren to say he was not trained in the Light Side of the Force, when he supposedly was.(by Luke)
It could be that simply his training was incomplete as Snoke said.
The Librarian
Banned
She cries at several points in the film!
- When Maz talks to her about her family.
- When she sees Han dying.
- While she's hovering over Finn's body.
And, um, all the times she look frightened, nervous, unsure of herself...
Wait, I forgot to count him.
Harrison > Driver > Boyega > Ridley
I still really like Ridley.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Vader was clearly not trying to slice him up. Come on dude
That's because Lucas was making shit up as he went along. There's no reason to assume this trilogy hasn't been mostly planned out. Yes, some details were probably changed late stage (like Poe surviving the crash), but something as significant as Rey's parentage is most definitely already set
RE: mind rading. Vader reads Luke's mind at the end of Jedi, about Leia. I don't think he does in ANH because Lucas hadn't added that to Vader's abilities at that point. (Sort of how we're seeing Kylo do new things now as the writers think of them.)
I think we're going to see a continued expansion of what Force users can do through this series, above and beyond what they did in the OT (at least, I hope so). I'm not sure how to stack them in terms of prowess, though. Kylo Ren's signature ability in TFA is to freeze things in place - Rey, Poe, that blaster shot. Admittedly freezing that blaster shot in air was cool as hell but is it really harder than tossing huge objects about as in the OT? I'm not so sure about that. It's flashy, but Force pushes and pulls have been in the mix since the OT. Freezing is literally right in the middle of those.
Digital-Hero
Member
Fancy Clown
Member
They nailed the casting for all the new characters tbh
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Ben showed him the physical training, Yoda showed him the mental.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Vader was just screwing with Luke the entire fight, probably testing his abilities to see how strong he was. He could have killed him at any time had he wanted to.
That's not really the same thing. Luke and him are very attuned to each other, as shown in other scenes like him sensing Luke in the shuttle.
But even if Vader could show that power, the point is that Kylo Ren shows all his power only when he's got everything going for him.
I prefer to think it was the Force instead of robot hands, because it's more badass that way.Also this
But most of that is probably robot hands. Maybe he forced Han to aim there.
Daisy Ridley was the best in cast, with Adam Driver right behind her. The more I think about the little nuances Driver did with Kylo, the more I like his performance. He really gave some distinctive touches to Kylo Ren's physicality - that forward hunch of his, the impetuousness and impulsive movement. It was a great contrast to Vader.