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Student who stabbed boyfriend may avoid jail as it would damage her career
- Thread starter Beefy
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therealist
Member
If those studies also show that greater than 50% of the time, everyone receives similar punishments regardless of race, then it's more rational to assume that race played no factor in this decision than the statistically less probable situation. I don't have the studies handy so I genuinely don't know what it says about the total data.
Messofanego
Banned
What UK do you live in where POC are treated as well as white people? Cause I want to live in this post-racism UKtopia.
I finally made it through med school
Somehow I made it through
I'm just an intern
I still make a mistake or two
I was last in my class
Barely passed at the institute
Now I'm trying to avoid, yah I'm trying to avoid
A malpractice suit
Hey, like a surgeon
Cuttin' for the very first time
Somehow I made it through
I'm just an intern
I still make a mistake or two
I was last in my class
Barely passed at the institute
Now I'm trying to avoid, yah I'm trying to avoid
A malpractice suit
Hey, like a surgeon
Cuttin' for the very first time
You need someone to tell you that post was a joke?
UnemployedVillain
Member
The fantasy version of GAF where the inhabitants condescendingly state that race/racism is only a focus in the US
Gun Animal
Member
BEAUTY IS A RESOURCE
Muppet of a Man
Member
Pretty white women get off the hook all the time. There's even a cop trope in movies for it.
FutureLarking
Member
Not anywhere North of Cambridge or south of Croydon that's for sure. It's a small area
Also PoC is an offensive term in the UK is it not?ginger ninja
Banned
She got off but I hope this follows her all her life/career.
travisbickle
Member
I get it, we the people, post-Brexit Britain, taking back control. If you don't want to punish people you're a traitor, bloody Brussels, don't believe in experts etc ...
Miles Quaritch
Member
The racism deniers sure do enjoy pointing to Poles, etc and saying the UK isn't racist because it hates white people too.
I've seen that one trotted out with regularity since Brexit.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Of course.
Messofanego
Banned
I've seen people in this thread making similar defenses that the punishment is too harsh and a criminal record isn't going to help the girl so my sarcasm detector got broken.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Her family's got money too, you say? She probably could have killed him and walked away with probation.
The UK has rejected European values. If a unhinged, we're a mini US.
The US justice system is indeed fucked up, but assuming that race doesn't play a part in the UK when it comes to some legal issues? Come on now.
This is the same country that allowed Brexit to happen right?
Messofanego
Banned
People will then defend Brexit that the Polish were also targeted!
Even though posters about Brexit had imagery like this.
So first time offender under the influence and with a bread knife?
I don't really see the issue, jail time seems a bit much to me.. she didn't know what she was doing and the intent wasn't to kill going by the knife used.
Article doesn't say too much so maybe it was worse than it sounds but that's where I'm standing ATM
I don't really see the issue, jail time seems a bit much to me.. she didn't know what she was doing and the intent wasn't to kill going by the knife used.
Article doesn't say too much so maybe it was worse than it sounds but that's where I'm standing ATM
Charles Brandon
Member
Fuck you and don't put words in my mouth.If you've conversed with him long enough you'll know that Jazzy Geoff doesn't see race
Anyone else would be doing time - Stabbing and assault, any CPS can make a case.
I imagine this is you reading the OP
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Well if she is such a genius she may win a nobel price due to her scientific achievements wouldn't it be better for society if she was convicted and consequently was forced to go into research rather than becoming a surgeon? Points in favour of this:
- as a surgeon, she will rescue at most one person a day, with some groundbreaking reasearch, she instead might save millions
- there are way more people who can become good surgeons than brilliant researchers truly advancing their fields
- a truly outstandinginly brilliant mind probably is not absolutely required for becoming a good surgeon
- for great research results, it is no problem if she cannot control her hands properly due to withdrawal from her drugs
So, shouldn't the judge in turn convict her for long enough that she cannot become a surgeon but still not so long that her career as a researcher is in serious trouble?
- as a surgeon, she will rescue at most one person a day, with some groundbreaking reasearch, she instead might save millions
- there are way more people who can become good surgeons than brilliant researchers truly advancing their fields
- a truly outstandinginly brilliant mind probably is not absolutely required for becoming a good surgeon
- for great research results, it is no problem if she cannot control her hands properly due to withdrawal from her drugs
So, shouldn't the judge in turn convict her for long enough that she cannot become a surgeon but still not so long that her career as a researcher is in serious trouble?
GhostTrick
Banned
Why car mechanic ? It could be heart surgeon like this girl and you can bet he'd make some jail time.
Heck it could also be a girl with muslim parents, bet you it'd be jail too.
Also they're probably radical islamic terrorists.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
To be fair, the argument goes a tiny bit further than just her personal career, with a hint of "the greater good", because she is supposed to be an exceptionally clever person. If Stephen Hawkins was convicted for a serious crime, I'd think it would be more reasonable to argue he should still be able to continue his research over a car mechanic continuing doing surgeries on cars.
GhostTrick
Banned
Red Arremer
Member
I wonder how your opinion would look like had the culprit been the boyfriend and the victim the girl.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Man with legit mental health issues use bread knife in attack and is charged with attempted murder...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/08/leytonstone-knife-attack-man-convicted-of-attempted
Woman uses bread knife along with other items to attack boyfriend...let's let her off. She didn't mean any harm.
Good George Orwell had this to say:
"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others."
Sure there is a point regarding the greater good, it should not be an excuse though. Its bad enough that society values some jobs more than others, in the end most of them are indispensable.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Holy shit, yeah. You could say that again.
This thread is really interesting. I didn't realise how much the rest of the world was unaware of the UKs hideous and systemic system of class biases.
Guys, it's like this okay: all that stuff you've been saying about racism and white privilege? It's all true and correct. But in addition to that, we have classism. If she'd been a white girl with equally rich parents but grew up in Wolverhampton with an accent; and was studying at Manchester Met and not Oxford; she would be significantly more likely to face repercussions. It is also true that she's not get away with this if she were black man. But it's not exactly the same as the US, and it isn't helpful to treat it as though it is.
Guys, it's like this okay: all that stuff you've been saying about racism and white privilege? It's all true and correct. But in addition to that, we have classism. If she'd been a white girl with equally rich parents but grew up in Wolverhampton with an accent; and was studying at Manchester Met and not Oxford; she would be significantly more likely to face repercussions. It is also true that she's not get away with this if she were black man. But it's not exactly the same as the US, and it isn't helpful to treat it as though it is.
Dictator93
Member
"one tiny sexy mistake"
lol
lol
Monocle
Member
It's so weird right? Like if I didn't live in it I'd have trouble believing it too...
ReplacementPelican
Member
You honestly think they? This is the UK, I understand Americans jumping in with 'must be white' because that's relative to how it works in their society (not that racial bias doesnt exist in the U.K.) however honestly this is definitely a class issue, it's nothing to do with accent but to do with an intelligent Oxford student. If someone poorly educated or from a poor background does something then 'shit, must be malicious' but because she's Oxford educated they're like 'well, she can't be all bad! Not like poor people who commit crime.' I won't make definite claims about the judge's history but given the overwhelming odds he's likely not from a poor background and is certainly well educated so he can identify with her more than a poor person which also helps her case.
UK courts have, like almost every western country, a significant bias against black defendants with regards to sentencing. I can dig out the numbers from my presentation a few mo the ago on this topic, but you are far more likely to be sent to prison and given a harsher sentence as a black man than you are a white man for the same crime. This disproportionality is even greater for black women. Racial inequality exists at every stage of the British criminal justice system:
- more likely to be stopped by the police
- more likely to be charged by the crown prosecution service
- more likely to receive a custodial sentence by a court
- less access to training and rehabilitation programmes in prison
- less access to rehabilitation programs and support by probation when released on license
It is not a small disparity either. That's why David Lammy MP is reviewing the entire CJS for inequality.
- more likely to be stopped by the police
- more likely to be charged by the crown prosecution service
- more likely to receive a custodial sentence by a court
- less access to training and rehabilitation programmes in prison
- less access to rehabilitation programs and support by probation when released on license
It is not a small disparity either. That's why David Lammy MP is reviewing the entire CJS for inequality.
Just out of interest, are we imagining a black male Oxford educated medical student stabbed his girlfriend? Or are we literally swapping her out for a black man; in which case he's be stabbing his boyfriend?
I mean he's going to jail either way, because we're still a racist country. But I feel like being gay making it better or worse is going to depend entirely on what judge you get.
Mohonky
Member
Like OJ Simpson?
I'm just going to point out that whilst women might get shorter prison sentences than men, that's usually because they have mitigating factors - the majority of women who commit violent crimes that lead to prison sentences are usually also victims of violent crime (sexual assault, domestic violence, rape etc).
The criminal justice system utterly fails female offenders - its built for, and around, men, as they are by far the largest offenders. The Corsten report identified this back in 2007 - the system does not work for women. That's why the Mayor of London is pushing hard for female specific offender programs etc.
Women might get shorter sentences, but they are served worse by the prison system than men (which is slightly worrying given the state of our prisons overall!).
The Artisan
Member
Why does she deserve an undamaged career after having committed such a violent ass crime?
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