Support NeoGAF

[Principate]

I think I've lost track of your point here man. I'm sorry. I'm not denying the existence of privately educated black people. I'm saying that discrimination bases on class also exists and our justice system is biased in both ways.

Yeah my was never that it wasn't incorrect infact it was the opposite my point was that the person that I was argued with implied there's no way it coul have been race based as it as it is class based with the implication that there was almost no upper class black people which is blatantly false.

 

[VegiHam]

Yeah my was never that it wasn't incorrect infact it was the opposite my point was that the person that I was argued with implied there's no way it coul have been race based as it as it is class based with the implication that there was almost no upper class black people which is blatantly false.

Oh damn. Sorry I misread. It totally could be race based, we're hella racist too! Yay England!

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

She should be booted from the uni and denied studying surgery ever again. Nobody needs this psycho bitch as a heart surgeon. Seriously when the fuck did stabbing someone become Ok?

Fuck the judge too for making a laughing stock of himself and the court.

Y'all are funny: a talented human gets a chance to pursue an enlightened career, but no let's throw her in jail. The net gain to society would be her working. Yet, in other threads everyone trashes extended jail sentences.

Talented attempted murderer. Kinda vital distinction. Also you know this wouldn't have gone down this way of the genders were flipped.

 

[E92 M3]

Y'all are funny: a talented human gets a chance to pursue an enlightened career, but no let's throw her in jail. The net gain to society would be her working. Yet, in other threads everyone trashes extended jail sentences.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Yeah my was never that it wasn't incorrect infact it was the opposite my point was that the person that I was argued with implied there's no way it coul have been race based as it as it is class based with the implication that there was almost no upper class black people which is blatantly false.

The upper class contains zero non-white people because the upper class in England is essentially composed of the aristocracy. It is tiny and pretty much completely inaccessible.

We are discussing the upper middle class, which does contain, I'm sure, a number of non-white people but they will still be extremely rare, simply because the barriers to entry are extremely difficult to overcome without the right background, which has then effect of disproportionately blocking people with non-indigenous heritage.

Middle-middle class is pretty much the best you can do without already being a member of one of the higher classes through birth.

I also did not say there was "no way" it could be race based. There are no absolutes here. I said it was much more likely to be class based, I have explained why, in detail and with evidence and you have not addressed that.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Y'all are funny: a talented human gets a chance to pursue an enlightened career, but no let's throw her in jail. The net gain to society would be her working. Yet, in other threads everyone trashes extended jail sentences.

A talented human who attempted to kill is still a human who attempted to kill. She may be extraordinary but there are many in her field that are also extraordinary and who do not attempt to kill.

To put it bluntly she is not irreplaceable to society.

 

[Preezy]

Send her to Monster Island™

 

[VegiHam]

Y'all are funny: a talented human gets a chance to pursue an enlightened career, but no let's throw her in jail. The net gain to society would be her working. Yet, in other threads everyone trashes extended jail sentences.

A woman who stabs people is being given access to scalpels and people. The net gain to society is avaoiding this obvious looming malpractice crisis.

 

[mhayes86]

...stabbed her boyfriend with a bread knife may not go to jail because it could damage her prospects of a medical career, a court has heard.

Aspiring heart surgeon...

She was probably just practicing.

Spoiler

/s god damn this is ridiculous.

 

[Maledict]

We mock the Daily Mail for ridiculous headlines that obfuscate the truth all the time, yet everyone here seems more than willing to just proclaim her a "pyscho bitch" based on newspaper reporting. Because newspapers in the UK are really accurate and truthful and completely convey what happened in a court room.

Judges have the power to determine sentences for a reason. Unless you were in the court room and present for the case, it's hard to understand why and it makes us look silly when we react so outraged.

 

[norinrad]

Y'all are funny: a talented human gets a chance to pursue an enlightened career, but no let's throw her in jail. The net gain to society would be her working. Yet, in other threads everyone trashes extended jail sentences.

I made my point clear on the first page and do agree with you, but I also find it unfortunate that you consider the concerns of others as funny whether you agree with them or not.

 

[Bold One]

Fuck you and don't put words in my mouth.

Anyway, when she gets away with murder in about 10 years time, she will have to deal with a rogue and handsome black detective determined to bring her down.

 

[Charles Brandon]

 

[cuate]

Y'all are funny: a talented human gets a chance to pursue an enlightened career, but no let's throw her in jail. The net gain to society would be her working. Yet, in other threads everyone trashes extended jail sentences.

...the fuck

 

[E92 M3]

A talented human who attempted to kill is still a human who attempted to kill. She may be extraordinary but there are many in her field that are also extraordinary and who do not attempt to kill.

To put it bluntly she is not irreplaceable to society.

I don't think she showed motive for attempted murder. Was just a stupid drug-fueled rage.

A woman who stabs people is being given access to scalpels and people. The net gain to society is avaoiding this obvious looming malpractice crisis.

She stabbed one person, and there is a high likely hood that with proper psychotherapy she can be fully rehabilitated and not make the same mistake.

 

[WhatNXt]

We mock the Daily Mail for ridiculous headlines that obfuscate the truth all the time, yet everyone here seems more than willing to just proclaim her a "pyscho bitch" based on newspaper reporting. Because newspapers in the UK are really accurate and truthful and completely convey what happened in a court room.

Judges have the power to determine sentences for a reason. Unless you were in the court room and present for the case, it's hard to understand why and it makes us look silly when we react so outraged.

Let's say that instead of aspiring to be a heart surgeon, and attending Christ Church in Oxford, she lives in the North - and is only doing a STEM degree or maybe even something in the humanities.

Jail her?

Personal prospects shouldn't factor in to sentencing. The intent and the gravity of the crime should determine the punishment. If you go apeshit, damaging property and launching glass around, then stab someone - you are risking severing an artery and ending their life. You shouldn't be given four months suspended sentence and effectively let off with it. I'm not proposing vindictive sentencing or punishment, but surely, there have to be consequences.

It is absolutely a legitimate criticism to suggest "affluenza". To suggest that if she were less affluent, living in a less leafy, affluent part of the country, and studying something 'lesser' - or perhaps not even studying at all - if she were perhaps not white, perhaps not as attractive? I'm fairly confident she would have had the book thrown at her.

 

[Beefy]

I don't think she showed motive for attempted murder. Was just a stupid drug-fueled rage.



She stabbed one person, and there is a high likely hood that with proper psychotherapy she can be fully rehabilitated and not make the same mistake.

Dude she deserves prison time. She physically assaulted a guy then stabbed him.

 

[Bold One]

I don't think she showed motive for attempted murder. Was just a stupid drug-fueled rage.



She stabbed one person, and there is a high likely hood that with proper psychotherapy she can be fully rehabilitated and not make the same mistake.

You are swinging pretty hard for this lass, as a potential patient one stabbing should be enough for you.

 

[E92 M3]

Dude she deserves prison time. She physically assaulted a guy then stabbed him.

You are swinging pretty hard for this lass, as a potential patient one stabbing should be enough for you.

I'd support anyone that was aspiring to be in the medical field and made a dumb mistake. Jail time would ruin her life when the better outcome is for her to be rehabilitated and work.

Also, what's the point of having a thread if no one wants to discuss alternate outcomes?

 

[MudoSkills]

After careful consideration: still would

 

[Beefy]

I'd support anyone that was aspiring to be in the medical field and made a dumb mistake. Jail time would ruin her life when the better outcome is for her to be rehabilitated and work.

Also, what's the point of having a thread if no one wants to discuss alternate outcomes?

Would you say the same if a poor person did it? Or a person that isn't a white girl that is attractive to some? She smacked a guy in the face, then stabbed him. After she stabbed him she started throwing stuff at him. It's not like she just smacked a guy in the face and walked off. Way too many of you and being blinded by her being "bright" and a med student.

After careful consideration: still would

After careful consideration: still creepy.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I don't think she showed motive for attempted murder. Was just a stupid drug-fueled rage.

Still a serious crime.

Any professional, regardless of stature would be fired for this and face consequences. Just because she has potential does not mean she can't waste it or whats far more likely, there will be others to replace her.

 

[Tubobutts]

I'd support anyone that was aspiring to be in the medical field and made a dumb mistake. Jail time would ruin her life when the better outcome is for her to be rehabilitated and work.

Also, what's the point of having a thread if no one wants to discuss alternate outcomes?

So working on a medical degree cancels out one (1) stabbing. What's the exchange rate of other fields to other crimes?

 

[Heroman]

I'd support anyone that was aspiring to be in the medical field and made a dumb mistake. Jail time would ruin her life when the better outcome is for her to be rehabilitated and work.

Also, what's the point of having a thread if no one wants to discuss alternate outcomes?

She almost killed a guy, while I believe in the rehabilitation model she does deserve some light jail time

 

[TimmmV]

Y'all are funny: a talented human gets a chance to pursue an enlightened career, but no let's throw her in jail. The net gain to society would be her working. Yet, in other threads everyone trashes extended jail sentences.

Taking that ethical position is fine, but then you need to apply it consistently to people regardless of their race/class/gender/talent. It should be one rule for everyone, otherwise what's the point?

 

[E92 M3]

Would you say the same if a poor person did it? Or a person that isn't a white girl that is attractive to some? She smacked a guy in the face, then stabbed him. After she stabbed him she started throwing stuff at him. It's not like she just smacked a guy in the face and walked off. Way too many of you and being blinded by her being "bright" and a med student.




After careful consideration: still creepy.

Like I said, I'd support all humans with extraordinary potential.

Still a serious crime.

Any professional, regardless of stature would be fired for this and face consequences. Just because she has potential does not mean she can't waste it or whats far more likely, there will be others to replace her.

I believe in second chances.

 

[Beefy]

Like I said, I'd support all humans with extraordinary potential.

Ah so if this was some poor person who has no prospects, you would think differently. Nice.....

 

[Shadow Ranger]

Stabbings are a serious fucking issue in the UK. Sure, it wasn't as bad as what goes on but she definitely needs a more stern punishment rather than whatever privileged life she has.

On a related note, real sick of hearing another person was stabbed. Knife crime punishment needs to fucking be stern and harsh. 60+ years. Trying to take a life, then spend 50 of it behind bars, idiots. Cannot believe 13 year olds are also going to school with knives on the regular. Shit needs to be done to deter these crazies.

 

[E92 M3]

So working on a medical degree cancels out one (1) stabbing. What's the exchange rate of other fields to other crimes?

You're looking at it too simply.

She almost killed a guy, while I believe in the rehabilitation model she does deserve some light jail time

Intent is important and jail time would ruin her life and cancel the point of rehab.

Taking that ethical position is fine, but then you need to apply it consistently to people regardless of their race/class/gender/talent. It should be one rule for everyone, otherwise what's the point?

I apply my thought process to all humans in a similar position. It has nothing to do with her physical traits.

Ah so if this was some poor person who has no prospects, you would think differently. Nice.....

Admittedly, I am biased towards intelligent people with prospects.

 

[Beefy]

Admittedly, I am biased towards intelligent people with prospects.

Least you admit it I guess. Still not a good look though.

 

[Maledict]

Stabbings are a serious fucking issue in the UK. Sure, it wasn't as bad as what goes on but she definitely needs a more stern punishment rather than whatever privileged life she has.

On a related note, real sick of hearing another person was stabbed. Knife crime punishment needs to fucking be stern and harsh. 60+ years. Trying to take a life, then spend 50 of it behind bars, idiots. Cannot believe 13 year olds are also going to school with knives on the regular. Shit needs to be done to deter these crazies.

In some areas of London it is now the cultural norm to carry a knife. The worrying trend in London knife crime is that it's no longer gang members doing this, it's otherwise normal school kids who carry one. And if you carry a knife, odds are you'll be involved in a knife crime one way or the other. It's not just "crazies", it's regular school kids who aren't on anyone's radar.

 

[Bleepey]

You're not allowed to post that here, quickly, sweep it under the rug..

Why? Does it make it seem the courts are biased in favour of women ?

 

[Bold One]

I'd support anyone that was aspiring to be in the medical field and made a dumb mistake. Jail time would ruin her life when the better outcome is for her to be rehabilitated and work.

Also, what's the point of having a thread if no one wants to discuss alternate outcomes?

I am not against alternative outcomes, I am just really reluctant to believe you would be willing to let this person perform surgery on you.

 

[E92 M3]

Least you admit it I guess. Still not a good look though.

Indeed, no one is perfect, though. Best to acknowledge all personal flaws.

I am not against alternative outcomes, I am just really reluctant to believe you would be willing to let this person perform surgery on you.

If person X has met all of the requirements to be hired by a reputable hospital as a surgeon, why not?

 

[Reckheim]

Intent is important and jail time would ruin her life and cancel the point of rehab.

What was her intent?

 

[Arkeband]

The judge is basically torn between "this wasn't medical malpractice and she could still be a good doctor" and "she's an attractive white woman and Would Do".

The first of which is regrettable but the law is the law and the second is where the real bullshit is at.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Like I said, I'd support all humans with extraordinary potential.



I believe in second chances.

She can get her second chance after she does her time.

 

[TimmmV]

I apply my thought process to all humans in a similar position. It has nothing to do with her physical traits.

You're still giving a bias towards people seen as contributing more though, which isn't a good way of looking at it

If you want to go down the road of whether its a one off and if she is actually a real danger to society then that's an argument I can understand - but that's as equally true for someone studying to be a doctor as it is for a bus driver or something.

Your way seems to just permit talented people to do shitty things as long as they're still a 'net gain'

 

[Furyous]

Y'all are funny: a talented human gets a chance to pursue an enlightened career, but no let's throw her in jail. The net gain to society would be her working. Yet, in other threads everyone trashes extended jail sentences.

Jail is filled with talented people that didn't get a chance to purse an enlightened career because they were thrown in jail for committing crimes. What is the difference in this particular case? Extended jail sentences are bad but the people that commit crimes in those cases serve jail time relative to their crime. Avoiding jail because it would damage her career is laughable. Whatever organization hires her is laughable as well.

 

[E92 M3]

What was her intent?

I think intent becomes clouded when the brain is under heavy influence of narcotics.

She can get her second chance after she does her time.

There is no "second chance" after jail time. Then again, I am not familiar with how the UK keeps their records.

Can it be expunged?

You're still giving a bias towards people seen as contributing more though, which isn't a good way of looking at it

If you want to go down the road of whether its a one off and if she is actually a real danger to society then that's an argument I can understand - but that's as equally true for someone studying to be a doctor as it is for a bus driver or something.

Your way seems to just permit talented people to do shitty things as long as they're still a 'net gain'

I doubt she is a danger to society and yes, being a net gain changes the perspective in my eyes.

 

[Gattsu25]

I think intent becomes clouded when the brain is under heavy influence of narcotics.

We don't excuse drunk drivers, I don't see this any differently.

When you elect to place yourself in an inebriated state you are still responsible for your actions.

 

[Koomaster]

What do you mean people's lives and careers can be ruined when they commit violent crimes?! No way! Why has nobody ever looked into this? Are we sure? That can't be right can it?! This is an outrage! I'm just so shook, I can't believe it!

 

[Barrel Cannon]

What were the full circumstances. Did he provoke the attack or anything?

 

[Abilidebob]

I think intent becomes clouded when the brain is under heavy influence of narcotics.



There is no "second chance" after jail time. Then again, I am not familiar with how the UK keeps their records.

Can it be expunged?



I doubt she is a danger to society and yes, being a net gain changes the perspective in my eyes.

How do you know if someone has "potential" or is a "net gain" to society? Is it about how they're doing right now? If so, you're already fucking over minorities that have no way of "showing their potential". What if she was a black girl that had the potential to be an amazing heart surgeon, but couldn't show it to society because of the inherent barriers she has to overcome for being a minority? Would you throw her in jail?

What if it was a man that punched his girlfriend in the face, stabbed her and threw stuff at her? What if he had raped her while "under heavy influence of narcotics."? Would you throw him in jail? What if he was a cancer researcher that was about to make a breakthrough? How many assaults he can do to compensate for curing cancer?

Of course you can't really measure "potential" or something. That's why it's stupid to use it as argument to give someone a slap on the wrist instead of punishing them.

 

[E92 M3]

Jail is filled with talented people that didn't get a chance to purse an enlightened career because they were thrown in jail for committing crimes. What is the difference in this particular case? Extended jail sentences are bad but the people that commit crimes in those cases serve jail time relative to their crime. Avoiding jail because it would damage her career is laughable. Whatever organization hires her is laughable as well.

True, but that's just life. There will never be a perfect legal system.

We don't excuse drunk drivers, I don't see this any differently.

When you elect to place yourself in an inebriated state you are still responsible for your actions.

Indeed, I am not arguing that.

How do you know if someone has "potential" or is a "net gain" to society? Is it about how they're doing right now? If so, you're already fucking over minorities that have no way of "showing their potential". What if she was a black girl that had the potential to be an amazing heart surgeon, but couldn't show it to society because of the inherent barriers she has to overcome for being a minority? Would you throw her in jail?

What if it was a man that punched his girlfriend in the face, stabbed her and threw stuff at her? What if he had raped her while "under heavy influence of narcotics."? Would you throw him in jail? What if he was a cancer researcher that was about to make a breakthrough? How many assaults he can do to compensate for curing cancer?

Of course you can't really measure "potential" or something. That's why it's stupid to use it as argument to give someone a slap on the wrist instead of punishing them.

Please read all of my posts - I already said it has nothing to do with physical traits.

 

[TimmmV]

I doubt she is a danger to society and yes, being a net gain changes the perspective in my eyes.

Well the first part may be true, but is total conjecture with what we have to go off, but with regard to the second bit, I think society would be pretty broken if that actually came about. People should, and deserve to be treated as equals in the eye of the law

 

[The Kree]

What is it about rich blonde white people with dainty hands that allows them get away with doing terrible shit? No one seems to know.

 

[Brinbe]

Maybe she was just suffering from Affluenza too? God forbid she be a minority who got caught with some weed or something...

Rich, beautiful White people. Getting away with shit forever.

 

[Beefy]

What were the full circumstances. Did he provoke the attack or anything?

It would have been put in the report if he did

 

[Chris1]

Why? Does it make it seem the courts are biased in favour of women ?

Only white people get away with shit, apparently. Can't be posting articles of Muslim's getting away for doing arguably worse than the girl in OP did