The Artisan
Member
reading what he wrote over I think that was a joke post.
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Student who stabbed boyfriend may avoid jail as it would damage her career
- Thread starter Beefy
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Can you point out where anyone wrote or even implied that all white people are racist?
What most people are commenting on is white privilege. Do think that's not a real thing?
"Muhiddin Mire repeatedly cut the throat of a stranger"
keyword being repeatedly here, the article in the OP doesn't mention anything about repeated stabs.
We really gonna pretend repeatedly stabbing someone is the same as what sounds like just one stab?
That's not even taking into consideration the stuff he was shouting, making it quite clear his intentions were to kill or at the very least severely injure, which doesn't seem to be the case in the OP.
Let's just ignore the part where it says he attacked or threatened four others, so it sounds like there was more than one victim in this case.
MaxwellParrish
Member
I find a little silly all of these comments about "she must be white" too... Guess what? Over 87% of the UK population is white, so I really don't see how the simple " being white" can be considered the main discriminant in the application of such a sentence
Yeah, and this exactly is the reason why the court should do anything for her to NOT be able to become a surgeon. Not the opposite, ffs.
People aren't saying this (well mostly, I'm not going to stick up for the people denying white privilege as a concept)
The thing that kept this woman out of prison was the fact that she is upper class (any maybe because shes a woman too, an upper class man might have gotten a prison sentence too)
The UK justice system is racist, a black person would almost certainly get prison time for the same crime (and probably a harsher sentence than a white person doing the crime too), but it is also classist; a lower/middle class white person doing the same crime would almost certainly get prison time too.
Class (and maybe gender, but thats not really what people are arguing about) was the defining factor that kept her out of prison. Acknowledging this isn't denying racism, its just recognising that there are other additional shitty inequalities in British society as well
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Something is up. Even considering she is exceptionally clever, and thats not an understatement. To be publishing medical articles at such a young age (from Oxford so I'm guessing the publications are very notable) is extraordinary.
But she punched this guy, stabbed him in the leg and threw glass objects at his head. Don't take a genius (let alone a surgeon) to know stab wounds in the leg can be fatal. This is a borderline murder attempt, not something to be excused due to ones intelligence.
I'm guessing Judge got bribed.
But she punched this guy, stabbed him in the leg and threw glass objects at his head. Don't take a genius (let alone a surgeon) to know stab wounds in the leg can be fatal. This is a borderline murder attempt, not something to be excused due to ones intelligence.
I'm guessing Judge got bribed.
By her rich parents right? They probably know the judge. He goes to the same country club.
Doesn't have to be anything so blatant as actual bribery. Prejudice is enough.
She looks like a psycho to me. Those dead eyes...
Her whiteness was a huge part of it, yes.
Maybe you're taking this a little too personally.
Royce McCutcheon
Junior Member
"It just kant be because of race, it just kant" I should prolly move to the UK, from what I read in this topic, racism is dead there as long as I got money.
SuperEpicMan
Banned
A photo from the scene:
The photo juxtaposes too well with the description of the incident.
Charles Brandon
Member
So you think this guys goes easy on all the white people who go through his court, which would be almost all the people in there?
I wonder if the boyfriend can sue for civil damages - he could potentially in the US.
I'm betting if you were NOT white and came through his court with the exact same scenario, he wouldn't be too concerned about your career, let's put it that way.
I'm betting if you were NOT white and came through his court with the exact same scenario, he wouldn't be too concerned about your career, let's put it that way.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
You do realise black people go to private schools too?
Yeah it is pretty ridiculous. It's not even like there's a one of attack or fit of rage with immediate withdrawal. This was a prolonged assault that the guy was lucky to live through.
Charles Brandon
Member
Yep
If you were not white and went to oxford all that other stuff I said in a previous post then maybe he would be. If you were black or white and working class he definitely wouldn't be.
Class is different than just money (although the upper classes usually have that too)
You can be a very wealthy black person and still not be upper class.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
There would be multiple factors. If she'd been black, she'd probably have received a more punitive sentence. If she'd been a man, she'd probably have received a more punitive sentence. If she'd belonged to a different class, she'd probably have received a more punitive sentence. It is probably true this judge goes relatively easier on a white person, ceteris paribus, than a black person, without necessarily meaning that all sentences given to white people are easy in absolute terms. These things overlap and interact.
Royce McCutcheon
Junior Member
Are you saying this isn't possible, and all judges have no inherent bias?
Red Liquorice
Member
I think maybe here in the UK we would look at it more of a class thing than a race thing. Had she been on benefits and living on a council estate say, she'd be in prison by now. I aceept part of that is white privilege.
Mostly on Scholarships.
there's data to back up that claim in general.
Judge fucked up, she fucked up under influence of some drinking. Though what she did was wrong, I personally think no one under 25 regardless of race should have their lives destroyed by any system. Let them do some harsh community service, learn from their mistakes and move on to become good people (hopefully).
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Then why are you stating it's about class and not money in reponse to the other guy. It makes little sense and your whole arguement is exceptionally poor. You can say the colour of skin may not (or probably not) have led to this result but there's no way you can say wth the stats and research that definitely did not.
That is quite frankly post racial bullshit.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Some and many also pay their way through. I and many other people i know are living proof.
What is this nonsense being spouted in this thread. You do realise these are large amount of black millionaries in the London right?
That was a joke or sarcasm.
You know being a millionaire doesn't mean you aren't working class right?
This is England, we've been working on our class system for years and we've got it pretty nuanced.
Here's a fun case to contrast:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...drinking-walk-free-after-attack-on-woman.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...drinking-walk-free-after-attack-on-woman.html
Charles Brandon
Member
Well it's possible sure but it doesn't seem likely to me that a Judge who most likely sees 90% white people coming through his court is going to go easy on all of them. It's really impossible to say without examining his record but without that there is absolutely nothing to suggest that he comes down harder on black people. However, he almost certainly comes down harder on people in general because this is an incredibly lenient sentence, so you'd expect his typical sentencing to be much harsher. Are most of the people who come through his court black? Given that he's in Oxford, I'd suggest that the majority of the people that come through his court are white and working class. If we accept that he typically gives harsher sentences and his typical defendant is white and working class then the obvious conclusion is that the difference in this case is not race but class because that's the difference between this defendant and the typical defendant.
Now, I have said repeatedly that I absolutely accept that the justice system is biased against black people and given that and the fact that this guy is the sort of person to give freebies out to "the right sort of people" you could infer from that that racial prejudice may be something that informs his opinions also but it's not a given. There is no actual evidence of racial prejudice as much as it would not be surprising. There is evidence of class based prejudice though, simply because the defendant got an unusually lenient sentence and the main differentiating factor between her and almost all the other defendants this guy sees is her class and not her race.
Edit: Principate - I have no wish to insult you or your achievements or those of your family. If you're a black kid that went to private school then good for you, you made it to the middle class but you didn't make it the level this girl is at. To get to those echelons, you need more than money and more than 'just' a private education, although it helps. It's not a class that is very accessible to anyone that isn't born into it , which excludes 99% of the country, including probably 99.9% of non-indigenous people. You need to get away from thinking that class is about money and the things you can buy.
For the avoidance of doubt, that previous paragraph should not be taken as a validation of the system. It's a regressive system designed to perpetuate the fortunes of the ruling classes but it does exist.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
I'm not just talking about British born millionaires here, there's a number a number from private schools that followed the british system in often with British/australian etc teachers in places like Nigeria where the richest people in the country was tought. back when the Naira was stronger than the pound due to oil wealth. My father was one of those people and there are many others.
How about we don't assume and limited interactions are the absolute truth of the world around us.
Are you applying that rule to all crimes?
I don't wanna just be like 'no u' here, but how about you consider that things might be more nuanced than you thought? Like, please don't tell me the complex system of intraracial socioeconomic oppression I've lived and experienced my whole life doesn't exist; and the only force at work here is interracial bias and prejudice? The world is terrible and intersectional enough for there to be room for both.
killatopak
Gold Member
Wow.
Speechless.
Speechless.
Ravensmash
Member
It's a shame that this descended into a race debate so early.
I read about this and I have conflicting thoughts....
She essentially carried out a very serious assault and that deserves punishment.
But... She's also very talented and if the justice system is going to focus on rehabilitation, then sending her down could negatively impact her life chances and that goes against rehabilitation. She's in the privileged position of having the right path set out very clearly to her already.
Then again she stabbed someone!
Race didn't really factor into my thinking, and to imply that it's a factor here relies on a lot more than a (majorly) US perspective being shared by many posters.
Then we have to ask the question of what the right approach is?
If this is the right approach, then is there proof that the judge himself has a record of being harsher on other groups?
I read about this and I have conflicting thoughts....
She essentially carried out a very serious assault and that deserves punishment.
But... She's also very talented and if the justice system is going to focus on rehabilitation, then sending her down could negatively impact her life chances and that goes against rehabilitation. She's in the privileged position of having the right path set out very clearly to her already.
Then again she stabbed someone!
Race didn't really factor into my thinking, and to imply that it's a factor here relies on a lot more than a (majorly) US perspective being shared by many posters.
Then we have to ask the question of what the right approach is?
If this is the right approach, then is there proof that the judge himself has a record of being harsher on other groups?
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It's fairly simple though, just because you haven't interacted with it doesn't mean it doesn't exist nor does it contradict it's existence by you not interacting ith it. Black people make up a small percentage o this country rich private school trained people make up a small percentage of this country, rich private school trained black people make up an even smaller count. The chances of you coming across such people are extremely low regardless though there's actually been a few tv shows about it. I'm not talking about interracial bias here just because such people exist isn't going change that remotely as racism and people in general work on an ancedotal level and particular in south/london areas there are of course a large number of working class black people.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
It's pointless posting that here.
I've always thought the UK's judiciary, as a whole, was fairly liberal; to wit, their collective interpretation and application of the law (ECHR!). Of course, there's room for individual anomalies.
Not gonna guess at what might/could have been going on under the surface in this instance.
Would love to hear from someone in the know. Isn't there a legal eagle who posts in UK Poligaf??
Not gonna guess at what might/could have been going on under the surface in this instance.
Would love to hear from someone in the know. Isn't there a legal eagle who posts in UK Poligaf??
I think I've lost track of your point here man. I'm sorry. I'm not denying the existence of privately educated black people. I'm saying that discrimination bases on class also exists and our justice system is biased in both ways.
Spaced Harrier
Member
Order of Importance:
Try, just try, to not view everything through your local filter.
- Her Sex
- Her Class and Background
- Her Race
Try, just try, to not view everything through your local filter.
You're not allowed to post that here, quickly, sweep it under the rug..
No, absolutely not. That would be silly, perhaps I should have been more clear about what I meant.
Charles Brandon
Member
For context - here is the same judge sentencing someone to 14 months for making racist remarks (and contempt)
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/14...9_go_to_hell__39__after_branding_him_corrupt/
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/14...9_go_to_hell__39__after_branding_him_corrupt/
Vicetrailia
Member
We've seen it where race negates rich and gender privilege. Her being white instead of black/brown is a significant factor on top of her other privileges, which allows them to fully blossom. But I can't prove it for this case, and what can easily be proved is her rich privilege.
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