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[PkunkFury]

You try telling that to the thousands of tourney players out there. I'm sure they'll be thrilled that the way they've been playing for years will be replaced with the art of waggle.

This is exactly what Smash Brothers is about. Sakurai changed the way fighting games were played when he released SSB back on the N64, and he did it precisely because the hardcore fans had stagnated the genre. Note we still get folks in these threads on occasion that harp on Smash for not being a "fighter". It's upsetting to see him falling victim to the stigma he was fighting in the first place

smash was a successful redesign of the 2D fighter to take advantage of the analog stick and the N64 controller layout. Sakurai also adapted the puzzle genre to the touch screen with Meteos, which remains one of the DS's best games. I have no doubt he could find a good reason to add motion control to a fighter

 

[NotWii]

Ew FD only, what kind of shitty tournaments do you go to? And they're not exploits if they're programmed specifically into the game. What, is rolling an exploit too now?

PS: Hate to break it to you but Sakurai already said there'll be more tourney-style stages in Brawl than there were in Melee.

They're not intentionally put in the game for use, you don't see the CPU using them. They're just a side effect from the way the game was written.

I'm fine with tourney stages, I just hate the tourney player mentality.

 

[Berserker]

:lol So true

Tourney players are whiny bitches who don't know how to play the game properly. Instead they rely on exploiting glitches to win.

If tourney players made a SSB game, it'd have no items and FINAL DESTINATION as the only stage.

You are wrong on so many levels

 

[papercut]

Wave dashing is really annoying. Just watching it is annoying. I really hope they get rid of it so we can stop with the goofy sliding characters.

 

[DeceitDecide]

Ew FD only, what kind of shitty tournaments do you go to? And they're not exploits if they're programmed specifically into the game. What, is rolling an exploit too now?

PS: Hate to break it to you but Sakurai already said there'll be more tourney-style stages in Brawl than there were in Melee.

Interesting. Is everyone convinced that wavedashing was programmed specifically into the game? Cause I'm not. I don't believe for a second that the devs intended for players to be able to slide around the stage without entering their run animation. L-canceling and everything else: obviously programmed into the game. I'm just not sure wavedashing was actually intended by the devs. Sure, tournament players will try to justify it by saying "if it's in the game, I should be able to use it." But player-control nuances that break the game's physics are not, in my opinion, intended. As you no doubt have guessed... I'm against snaking too

 

[apotema]

Is this the Final Countdown?

 

[papercut]

Interesting. Is everyone convinced that wavedashing was programmed specifically into the game? Cause I'm not. I don't believe for a second that the devs intended for players to be able to slide around the stage without entering their run animation. L-canceling and everything else: obviously programmed into the game. I'm just not sure wavedashing was actually intended by the devs. Sure, tournament players will try to justify it by saying "if it's in the game, I should be able to use it." But player-control nuances that break the game's physics are not, in my opinion, intended. As you no doubt have guessed... I'm against snaking too

People are getting away with "if it's in the game, use it!" mentality only because Nintendo doesn't have a way to patch its games. If DS games had a write-to feature, I wonder how long snaking would have lasted.

 

[NotWii]

Interesting. Is everyone convinced that wavedashing was programmed specifically into the game? Cause I'm not. I don't believe for a second that the devs intended for players to be able to slide around the stage without entering their run animation. L-canceling and everything else: obviously programmed into the game. I'm just not sure wavedashing was actually intended by the devs. Sure, tournament players will try to justify it by saying "if it's in the game, I should be able to use it." But player-control nuances that break the game's physics are not, in my opinion, intended. As you no doubt have guessed... I'm against snaking too

Yep, wholeheartedly agree.
Wavedashing and Snaking look retarded.

 

[Firestorm]

They're not intentionally put in the game for use, you don't see the CPU using them. They're just a side effect from the way the game was written.

I'm fine with tourney stages, I just hate the tourney player mentality.

So "by mistake" they made it so that when you press L after an aerial, it cancels the lag by 50% instead of like the old game where they "by mistake" made it cancel lag by 100%? And "by mistake" they made it so that if you press L when you hit the ground from being hit you make a rolling animation which makes you get up faster?

Seems like some very convenient mistakes.

 

[laserbeam]

Is this the Final Countdown?

theres like 30 hours left or something

 

[Firestorm]

Interesting. Is everyone convinced that wavedashing was programmed specifically into the game? Cause I'm not. I don't believe for a second that the devs intended for players to be able to slide around the stage without entering their run animation. L-canceling and everything else: obviously programmed into the game. I'm just not sure wavedashing was actually intended by the devs. Sure, tournament players will try to justify it by saying "if it's in the game, I should be able to use it." But player-control nuances that break the game's physics are not, in my opinion, intended. As you no doubt have guessed... I'm against snaking too

Not talking about wavedashing. But no, I don't believe wavedashing was fully intentional. Although it was slightly. What purpose does it serve? It keeps you from going through the ground when airdodging into the ground.

If you have a rocket that can push you diagonally down handy, you can do it in real life too. When you hit the ground, you will slide to the direction you were heading in. The distance will depend on the friction of the surface and the traction of your feet and whatever you're wearing on your feet. Just like in Melee.

 

[NotWii]

So "by mistake" they made it so that when you press L after an aerial, it cancels the lag by 50% instead of like the old game where they "by mistake" made it cancel lag by 100%? And "by mistake" they made it so that if you press L when you hit the ground from being hit you make a rolling animation which makes you get up faster?

Seems like some very convenient mistakes.

See above.

 

[DeceitDecide]

So "by mistake" they made it so that when you press L after an aerial, it cancels the lag by 50% instead of like the old game where they "by mistake" made it cancel lag by 100%? And "by mistake" they made it so that if you press L when you hit the ground from being hit you make a rolling animation which makes you get up faster?

Seems like some very convenient mistakes.

Yeah, you're right about that. No one can deny that L-canceling was every bit intended by the game's developers. Wave dashing is straight-up broken. Or should I say "broke"... is that what the kids say these days?

 

[papercut]

So "by mistake" they made it so that when you press L after an aerial, it cancels the lag by 50% instead of like the old game where they "by mistake" made it cancel lag by 100%? And "by mistake" they made it so that if you press L when you hit the ground from being hit you make a rolling animation which makes you get up faster?

Seems like some very convenient mistakes.

Why are you comparing those to wavedashing? It's a hell of a lot more plausible to have a well-timed button press make you get up faster or finish your move faster than it is to move about by sliding across the screen. It's totally out of place with regards to the rest of the game's mechanics.

 

[Firestorm]

See above.

I only see retarded posts by you. Did you say something in invisible type?

Yeah, you're right about that. No one can deny that L-canceling was every bit intended by the game's developers. Wave dashing is straight-up broken. Or should I say "broke"... is that what the kids say these days?

No, broken is used for tactics that break the metagame, which Wavedashing doesn't do. Wavedashing is an alternate method of moving and dodging you could say. It opens up your game to more possibilities. All it does is give you more options. You can think of it as a replacement for the roll.

 

[_Alkaline_]

theres like 30 hours left or something

Holy **** didn't realise it was that close.

 

[Firestorm]

Why are you comparing those to wavedashing? It's a hell of a lot more plausible to have a well-timed button press make you get up faster or finish your move faster than it is to move about by sliding across the screen. It's totally out of place with regards to the rest of the game's mechanics.

No it's not. I just explained it in post #762. I was talking about L-Cancelling etc. because that's what we were talking about when he made that comment.. SHFFLing, not wavedashing.

Edit: Going to bed now. Can't wait for the news =) Monday around 10 AM I think? Gonna be F5ing

Just remember that wavedashing makes more characters useable in competitive play (Ice Climbers and Luigi) while doesn't negatively effect any character. It's a good thing.

 

[Mockingbird]

So...system meltdown in less than 30 hours?

 

[DeceitDecide]

So...system meltdown in less than 30 hours?

It's actually 31 hours and about 20 minutes to go!

 

[papercut]

No it's not. I just explained it in post #762. I was talking about L-Cancelling etc. because that's what we were talking about when he made that comment.. SHFFLing, not wavedashing.

Well rationalizations aside, I think the move's a mistake. If they want to have an alternate form of movement in Brawl, they should 1) make it legit, and 2) make it look less stupid. Like an advanced roll or something, or layered rolls (whatever that means).

 

[NotWii]

I only see retarded posts by you. Did you say something in invisible type?

What I meant was see post 756 by DeceitDecide which I was quoting in agreement.

Yeah, you're right about that. No one can deny that L-canceling was every bit intended by the game's developers. Wave dashing is straight-up broken. Or should I say "broke"... is that what the kids say these days?

You're my favourite poster today :lol

Well rationalizations aside, I think the move's a mistake.

You're my second favourite poster today

 

[DeceitDecide]

What I meant was see post 756 by DeceitDecide which I was quoting in agreement.


You're my favourite poster today :lol


You're my second favourite poster today

Whoo! And with that, I'm one step closer to being a member.

Spoiler

not really

Alright, all this bickering about control schemes and valuing/devaluing of tourney players' strategems has gotten us away from the true purpose of this thread: to be pumped for Brawl! Let's kick this sad story in the pants. I suggest we all partake in a chain of one-line posts in which we divulge the one NEW character we most want to see show up in Brawl. If you say something retarded like "Goku" you're hereby demoted from Shiek to Game & Watch. I'll get us started. Ahem:

Captain Olimar

 

[GaimeGuy]

Wii:


wave dashing is certainly NOT a mistake.

If you open debug mode, you can see that wave dashing as a method/procedure has a name, something like "air_dodge_dash_cancel" or something to that extent.

They knew about it, L-cancelling, as well as a ton of these other alleged "glitches" that you have alluded to, but failed to explicitly state, in any of your posts.

Tell me, what are these "glitches" that you're talking about? Freeze glitch with ice climbers, or their infinite combos?

 

[Jiggy]

This is exactly what Smash Brothers is about. Sakurai changed the way fighting games were played when he released SSB back on the N64, and he did it precisely because the hardcore fans had stagnated the genre. Note we still get folks in these threads on occasion that harp on Smash for not being a "fighter". It's upsetting to see him falling victim to the stigma he was fighting in the first place

smash was a successful redesign of the 2D fighter to take advantage of the analog stick and the N64 controller layout. Sakurai also adapted the puzzle genre to the touch screen with Meteos, which remains one of the DS's best games. I have no doubt he could find a good reason to add motion control to a fighter

I don't disagree that he could find that reason, but when new control schemes are invented, I'd rather see them be implemented in new series--just as they were with SSB and Meteos. That seems to be the way for those control schemes to prove themselves for what they are instead of being constantly compared to the old style and judged for what they aren't. (Even within the context of SSB alone, I can't help wondering if I would have loved Coin Matches if they had been the only way to play, in a new series, instead of feeling like a second-rate addition to Stock and Time just because they didn't exist previously.)

Besides, the traditional SSB style hasn't stagnated over the course of two games anyway. There's room for both that and a motion-controlled fighter, I'd say.

Alright, all this bickering about control schemes and valuing/devaluing of tourney players' strategems has gotten us away from the true purpose of this thread: to be pumped for Brawl! Let's kick this sad story in the pants. I suggest we all partake in a chain of one-line posts in which we divulge the one NEW character we most want to see show up in Brawl.

No.

But Marin. That'll never happen, though, so Sami. Of course, that'll probably never happen either because then they'd have to find a way to get Andy in there too. But it's possible. Maybe.

 

[Keru_Shiri]

I am so pumped for this game! It's higher on my want list than anything else right now. *crosses fingers for more Fire Emblem characters

 

[GaimeGuy]

I am so pumped for this game! It's higher on my want list than anything else right now. *crosses fingers for more Fire Emblem characters

Expect them to take out Roy and replace him with someone like Lyn or Hector (maybe Ike, although he'd probably play too much like Marth)

 

[miyuru]

I'm psyched And everyone bitching about people who wavedash and shit, let it go. Just because someone is better at you at SSB doesn't mean you have to twist it and argue back! And this is coming from someone who doesn't even wavedash/play competitively.

The same applies to many games - you'll find the hardcore fans knowing the game inside out, exploiting everything in their power to be the best at that game. Learn to respect that. After all, what makes you people the authority on SSB?

Just ****ing get along, it's pathetic...

 

[MasterMFauli]

Ugh, why are we talking about the controls of this game?
Classic Controller or Wiimote+Nunchuk and you have all the buttons you need.

As for wave-dashing and co.: I cant really use it, tried and did it several times, but by no means can i do it 100%ly correct.
BUT: The "pro-gamer moves" in SSBM arent by any means as annyoing as snaking in MarioKartDS. You know, it´s a nice move, this wave-dashing, but have no problem in beating such a person, because wave-dashing is just a small advantage, nothing big.
Snaking in MKDS, though...well, you dont have a chance without.

 

[flipping_heck]

I tried wave-dashing before and its really quite an 'advance' technique, of course, if i was really competitive and stuff i would be all over wave-dashing and stuff, but since i play SSB with sister and brother, we tend to have a nice friendly match with items on (bar invisibilty item), and not just on final destination map. Its nice to know SSB is played as a competitive thing, but count me out if im gonna be up against the extreme pros.

oh, less than 2 days left, MEGAT--!

 

[WildArms]

I'm guessing no one has any idea about what will be revealed in the next 2 days. What if it's merely a website redesign, with no new information whatsoever? Would everyone be dissapointed? I mean it's not like they promised us any new info? (Or have they?)

 

[Taurus]

I'm guessing no one has any idea about what will be revealed in the next 2 days. What if it's merely a website redesign, with no new information whatsoever? Would everyone be dissapointed? I mean it's not like they promised us any new info? (Or have they?)

Didn't Matt from IGN say we are about to receive new SSBB info soon/this week?

I don't see any reason to relaunch the website without any updates or news added there.

 

[laserbeam]

I'm guessing no one has any idea about what will be revealed in the next 2 days. What if it's merely a website redesign, with no new information whatsoever? Would everyone be dissapointed? I mean it's not like they promised us any new info? (Or have they?)

Nintendo Power is reporting part of the new site is a daily updated blog by Sakurai and new characters should be revealed. At the event this week we should get new stuff as well id imagine especially since site launch corresponds to the events occurring in japan and US

 

[WildArms]

Didn't Matt from IGN say we are about to receive new SSBB info soon/this week?.

True, so I guess the worst thing that can happen is they reveal things we already know are bound to happen (Donkey Kong/Yoshi playable, some items that have always been there like Poke Balls etc)

But since you said new info, hopefully it means new in the sense that it hasn't been seen in the past 2 Super Smash Brothers. I mean, revealing Fox at the end of the second official trailer was a bit meh..

 

[flipping_heck]

I'm guessing no one has any idea about what will be revealed in the next 2 days. What if it's merely a website redesign, with no new information whatsoever? Would everyone be dissapointed? I mean it's not like they promised us any new info? (Or have they?)

Apparently some guy on Gamefaqs who claims himself as an interviewer is gonna interview one of the top men in the US localisation team for this game today, so if all he says is true (quite unlikely) then some news should come out today, but why bother, the official news is coming out in just over a day's time.. just wait. Play some Ouendan 2 or Pokemon while you wait..

 

[WildArms]

Apparently some guy on Gamefaqs who claims himself as an interviewer is gonna interview one of the top men in the US localisation team for this game today, so if all he says is true (quite unlikely) then some news should come out today, but why bother, the official news is coming out in just over a day's time.. just wait. Play some Ouendan 2 or Pokemon while you wait..

I saw that topic too. It seemed a little belivebale, but yeah there's only two days to go so it's best to just wait.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Why isn't Ash a character btw? he is/was pretty popular.

 

[BGBW]

Why isn't Ash a character btw? he is/was pretty popular.

Well if they were to use him, his correct name is Red. Besides, what would his moves be apart from chucking Pokéballs. Using running shoes, a Pokédex and a bicycle?

 

[WildArms]

Why isn't Ash a character btw? he is/was pretty popular.

Never thought of that, I mean since Pokemon play a big role in this game, you would assume there would at least be one human character that represents Pokemon.

He can have moves where he calls Pikachu or other Pokemon he has (a bit like Peach did with Toad, but better). He can also just punch and kick like a normal human.

I guess he's a bit too human to be in this game. Wait that's a bit silly, considering there is Ness, Solid Snake, Captain Falcon and even Mario. But I dont know, I always felt Ash is a REAL human, whereas those are all just video game characters, if that makes sense :-/

 

[Kafel]

I bet a one week ban if SSBM's main controller configuration doesnt use the Wiimote.

Edit: Lets make it a month.

For fun.

 

[speedpop]

SSBB and Ouendan 2. What a ****ing day.

 

[Alpha_eX]

I'm trying not to get my hopes up for when they announce Yoshi as a playable character, nothing else.

 

[TheGreatDave]

For fun.

I always thought SSBB would be well suited to the Wiimote. Smash Attacks can be done by swiping the controller in a direction, you have enough buttons to do anything else. I think I'd rather have a Wiimote mode than not.

 

[JonathanEx]

JDSN, you lose.
SSBM's main controller configuration doesn't use the Wiimote as you said, it uses the GC controller.
SSBB on the other hand, we don't know.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Well if they were to use him, his correct name is Red. Besides, what would his moves be apart from chucking Pokéballs. Using running shoes, a Pokédex and a bicycle?

Ness is alot like Ash. He had a baseball bat, i don't know what Ash could have. Maybe summon pokemon?

Or a ash and pikachu combo, like iceclimbers.

 

[Taurus]

Ness is alot like Ash. He had a baseball bat, i don't know what Ash could have. Maybe summon pokemon?

Or a ash and pikachu combo, like iceclimbers.

I'd like to see Ash bitch-slapping other players there. No other moves, just weak, normal and strong bitch-slaps. And as a special move he can summon some random bitch-slapping pokemon.

 

[WastingPenguins]

But player-control nuances that break the game's physics are not, in my opinion, intended.

:lol :lol :lol

You obviously know nothing about how to perform a wavedash, because the only reason it even works is, specifically, the game's programmed physics engine.

Let me ask you haters this: there's another move that a lot of people use that isn't "wavedashing"-- it's "wavelanding", okay? Here's how it works. You jump into the air. As high as you want, in whatever direction you want. Now, you know how air-dodges work, right? You smack R or L + a direction and your character dodges through the air in the desired direction. Now, back to the waveland-- you're on the descent of your jump. A couple feet from the ground, you airdodge diagonally toward the ground to avoid an opponent's attack. I'm not talking about RIGHT as you touch the ground (though that is one option), I'm talking about a few feet from it, so that your character performs his airdodge animation before touching the ground.

ANYWAY, you know what's going to happen once they touch the ground? They have a bit of momentum. It's called the game's physics engine. Obviously, they can't just go THROUGH the ground. So instead, they slide a bit to the side due to the momentum of their airdodge. Now stop and think for a minute... do you consider THAT a glitch? You really don't think that the developer's intended that to happen? Of course they did. It was just a programmed part of the physics of the game-- if you airdodge into the ground, you don't just stop dead in your tracks, you slide. In fact, each character has an individualized level of traction (this was programmed into each character), so that, in an instance like this, the physics engine knows how far any given character will slide. If you consider that a "glitch"... well, you have no idea what the word glitch even means.

The difference between a waveland and a wavedash? In a waveland, you do the airdodging AFTER the jump animation. In a waveDASH, you press jump and then quickly interrupt the jump animation with your airdodge. It doesn't HAVE to be an instantaneous slide. You can actually jump up a few inches or a few feet and then airdodge into the ground with basically the same effect. If you want to bitch about something, bitch that the developers enabled players to airdodge SO quickly out of a jump. But you know what? It doesn't make sense to do otherwise! What should they have done... said you can only airdodge after five seconds in the air? What if you actually need to quickly dodge an enemy's attack? Plus, wavelanding would still work fine, and no one in their right mind could think that's a "glitch", and if you want to be a troll and say it is without any reasonable justification, of which there really is none anyway, then I will gladly ignore it.

Phew... there's my rant for the day, back to waiting for news!

 

[Alpha_eX]

Ness is alot like Ash.

In what way exactly, Ash is just a whiny kid who throws pokeballs.

 

[Avrum]

Wow, WastingPenguins just wasted the haters. :lol

I never got that myself from some discussions about tourney players relying on glitches and tricks to win. Sure, it's arguable that it might be a trick and shame on your for not stepping your game up to know things like this if you're a serious Smash player. But they definitely aren't glitches.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

In what way exactly, Ash is just a whiny kid who throws pokeballs.

I mean like in age, size and they both have a cap :3)

 

[PowerSmell]

Well if they were to use him, his correct name is Red. Besides, what would his moves be apart from chucking Pokéballs. Using running shoes, a Pokédex and a bicycle?

You know, I've always wondered what it would be like if the Pokemon trainers took part in the battle. Why don't Team Rocket just beat the shit out of Ash while their Pokemons are fighting? What's he gonna do? Catch you then choose you?