Haha, the participation itt leaves a lot to be desired
What do you expect? The naturalization process is lame ass here.
Gotta make more Swiss.
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Switzerland-GAF |OT| If the Swedes can do something, so can we!
- Thread starter Kenka
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What do you expect? The naturalization process is lame ass here.
Gotta make more Swiss.
cloudwalking
300chf ain't shit to me
Hey, since you live in Ticino you may be able to help me where my Googling skills have failed me earlier today:
A couple of years ago, jarosh and I were in Lugano towards the end of October (actually, it would have been the last weekend of October). We stayed the weekend for our wedding anniversary and were delighted to find out, totally by chance, that we'd ended up there on some special weekend where the stores were open on Sunday. There was also a sort of autumn market around the whole city, with stands selling pumpkin soup, marroni, and other things.
I tried googling to find out if it's taking place again this year, but I didn't find any info at all besides a short article in German mentioning that it took place last year. I'm assuming it'll happen again this year but I can't find a single website mentioning it or the date explicitly... thought you might know something, if not I'll shoot an e-mail to Ticino's tourism office.
Sidewinder
Member
Hey, since you live in Ticino you may be able to help me where my Googling skills have failed me earlier today:
A couple of years ago, jarosh and I were in Lugano towards the end of October (actually, it would have been the last weekend of October). We stayed the weekend for our wedding anniversary and were delighted to find out, totally by chance, that we'd ended up there on some special weekend where the stores were open on Sunday. There was also a sort of autumn market around the whole city, with stands selling pumpkin soup, marroni, and other things.
I tried googling to find out if it's taking place again this year, but I didn't find any info at all besides a short article in German mentioning that it took place last year. I'm assuming it'll happen again this year but I can't find a single website mentioning it or the date explicitly... thought you might know something, if not I'll shoot an e-mail to Ticino's tourism office.
Hmm maybe this: http://www.ticino.ch/de/commons/det...-6-e-13-ottobre-2012/98287.html?itemId=98287&
metareferential
Member
I guess it's the autumn festival (5-7 october)?
http://www.lugano-tourism.ch/en/161/the-autumn-festival.aspx?idActivity=609&idMod=418
The one you're linking Sidewinder takes place in Ascona (which is just as beautiful as Lugano).
http://www.lugano-tourism.ch/en/161/the-autumn-festival.aspx?idActivity=609&idMod=418
The one you're linking Sidewinder takes place in Ascona (which is just as beautiful as Lugano).
edgardavids
Member
What do you guys think of your own bundesrat system? I find it great how there isnt just one person making all the decisions. I could imagine the elections being chaotic.
Actually, no. Most of the time, the decisions are already made before the have a meeting, because the are looking for friends to get their legislation passed. Only very few points are really discussed and most of the time (95%) Bundesrats meetings are quite boring.
You have to keep in mind, everything must be able to pass the parliament and of course the people still could vote against it, if some party is using the referendum option. So most legislation is quite tame.
There are only very, very few topics, which are discussed very emotional. Army for example. And chaotic is not very Swiss like, so they try to avoid that.
You have to keep in mind, everything must be able to pass the parliament and of course the people still could vote against it, if some party is using the referendum option. So most legislation is quite tame.
There are only very, very few topics, which are discussed very emotional. Army for example. And chaotic is not very Swiss like, so they try to avoid that.
metareferential
Member
Chaotic and politics can't be on the same sentence, in Switzerland.
Well, except in Ticino. xD
metareferential
Member
Canis lupus
Member
Suisse Gaf? Can I make a Turkey gaf too?. Switzerland is a nice tranquile country, very beautiful landscapes, been there in 2009
fanboi is shaping into a GAF-archnemesis. First he didn't replace his avatar although I asked him to do so once. Secondly, he calls Switzerland a poor man's Sweden. You know what? I love the man.
Ya, really! I am not being sarcastic on top of that. You sould come along Corky, KAOz and Yoshichan to here once.
Like Yoshichan, I admit I don't know if it is a sane trend. I don't know how the mods see this and there is a chance they close the all Country-GAFs if it suits their policy.Suisse Gaf? Can I make a Turkey gaf too?. Switzerland is a nice tranquile country, very beautiful landscapes, been there in 2009
The Bundesrat system works as long as the individuals in it value the country more than their own interest (read true belief in comfort for all). It is true that we have tools like the magic formula and the people's referendum to avoid pissing people off but we really have to use them because the Bundesrat has the possibility to bypass the Senate and impose his own laws.
But aside of the tools mentioned above, we all share one basic system of values, which holds in high esteem freedom of speech, material comfort and a not show-off attitude. Also, the background of hive-mind is heavily and shaped by Lutherian ideology, which gives power AND responsibility to the individual. As long as the folk's hive mind is shaped by this system, I have little fear that the political system would mislead the country.
I'd love to see Lutherianized Islam in my home country, as it would settle disputes we have had there for decades, btw.
Don't hate the game hate the players. I want to become a citizen of this great little nation. Need to learn German though.
cloudwalking
300chf ain't shit to me
Grazie mille!
Even if this isn't exactly the same thing it sounds very similar and really awesome! If it's good weather I might just have to pop down there and check it out. I see that SBB even has an awesome RailAway offer from Zürich HB.
I would luv to see Switzerland.
You know, get to see the little people handle day to day chores.
Yesterday's votes have had consequences, obviously.
http://www.euronews.com/2012/09/23/switzerland-referendum-may-end-tax-breaks-for-rich/
Interesting outcome. We seem to be paying close attention to this "rich may flee" situation. What's more, the Bernese have done the contrary of what the Appenzeller and the Basler did. No more favourable tax deals for the rich over there.
http://www.euronews.com/2012/09/23/switzerland-referendum-may-end-tax-breaks-for-rich/
Interesting outcome. We seem to be paying close attention to this "rich may flee" situation. What's more, the Bernese have done the contrary of what the Appenzeller and the Basler did. No more favourable tax deals for the rich over there.
I don't think the rich will leave that fast. They still pay way less taxes. Also where do they want to go. Switzerland is pretty save, has a great infrastructure and even if you are very rich, we don't mind.
Even if you have to pay a little more you still have a lot of advantages in Switzerland, so I don't think a lot of people will leave. Also the Russians are buying everything at the moment in Switzerland, the next flood of rich people is already coming. Also a lot of French will be moving to Switzerland soon.
Even if you have to pay a little more you still have a lot of advantages in Switzerland, so I don't think a lot of people will leave. Also the Russians are buying everything at the moment in Switzerland, the next flood of rich people is already coming. Also a lot of French will be moving to Switzerland soon.
I think this is one of the biggest factors. Swiss people are very "private", in a way that you hardly ever see swiss people approach strangers. Because this includes rich people/celebrities, they can live here without getting constantly approached, way less so than they would in other places. We're way too respectful to be annoying them
Depends on how much money you have. (I wish I was joking)
My cousin is married to a korean girl, they both live in Switzerland and she has to live here for 10 years before she can apply for citizenship. So... Yeah, we really don't like foreigners. Or let's say, immigrants. If you come and live here to work you're fine, but if you wanna settle there's quite a few hurdles. Switzerland has a history of only liking "temporary residents" that live here to work but then leave later.
Huh? In my home town alone ~25% of the people are immigrants. And I don't even know what the comment about the money is supposed to mean.
Also, *no one* who is married to a Swiss citizen has to live here for 10 years before they can apply for citizenship. Flat out not true. It's 5 years, plus they get a simplified naturalization process.
If you're from a non-EU country it can definitely be difficult to settle down here, unless you work for a company that brings you to Switzerland and you're literally indispensable at your job.
If you *are* from any of the EU countries, however, it's pretty straightforward and painless.
We certainly don't have the best immigration policies in the world and we're not as welcoming to immigrants as other countries, but contrary to what a lot of people might have you believe, immigration to Switzerland isn't a nightmare or needlessly complicated and laborious.
In fact, over 30% of the Swiss population have an immigrant background.
Even before the EU you could come to Switzerland from most European countries without having anything lined up, find work here and then your employer would get you a work permit.
I was purely taking about the naturalization/immigration process. And even 5 years is 5 years longer than other countries.
You can't tell me Switzerland isn't one of the hardest countries to become naturalized (not as bad as Japan maybe), when we had public votes on citizenship until like 10 years ago in some places :lol
EU contracts have definitely made it easier at least for EU-citizens though.
Glass Rebel
Member
Afaik this is how we got naturalized back in 2002/2003.
Personally, I think the process is ridiculous. Especially the test "disguised" as a conversation that they do (did?) in some places.
It used to be podium "discussions", yeah. Kinda used to remind me of slave auctions. "WHO WANTS THIS GOOD KOSOVAR, ANYONE SAY NOW OR THE NEIGHBOURING TOWN MIGHT GET HIM, LOOK AT HOW HEALTHY HE LOOKS"
Switzerland, as jarosh explained, as always relied on foreign workforce after their industry boomed. The situation in Switzerland is quite unique as the Swiss identity is the basis of a large part of the cultural landscape (foreigners get assimilated incredibly quickly in comparison to other countries) while there are more foreigners in the country as ever, especially when it comes to workforce:
http://worldradio.ch/wrs/news/wrsnews/more-foreign-workers-employed-in-q2.shtml?32577
For each two Swiss dudes, there is one foreigner (strictly foreigner!) working. If you stack up Swiss with immigrant backgrounds in the mix, 40% of the people working in there have foreign ancestry. There is room for you!
The thing with those "look at how many foreigners there are" statistics is that if this was a different country, all those foreigners would've gotten naturalized a long time ago. Those are mostly not recent immigrants, just people who never got/wanted the chance to be naturalized. They shouldn't really count as foreigners. But yes, Switzerland has a lot of immigrant history.
Tell me about those magical countries that immediately naturalize anyone who crosses their borders, no matter where they're from! Please!
For starters, Canada. You can apply for citizenship quite fast.
I'm talking about Switzerland pre-EU.
Actually, here, for Switzerland:
For Canada:
So Switzerland has at least 9 years of extra-time where immigrants count as foreigners vs citizens. Not to mention people who live here for that long might just not care about passports anymore. But yeah, can't tell me 12 years of naturalization vs 3 doesn't make the number of foreigners higher I'm too tired to find the paper right now (and I'm also on the bus), but if you have access to academic sources there's papers that discuss the numbers adjusted for an easier process, maybe even google will do. It's been like half a year since I read it...
For Canada:
So Switzerland has at least 9 years of extra-time where immigrants count as foreigners vs citizens. Not to mention people who live here for that long might just not care about passports anymore. But yeah, can't tell me 12 years of naturalization vs 3 doesn't make the number of foreigners higher
I'm too tired to find the paper right now (and I'm also on the bus), but if you have access to academic sources there's papers that discuss the numbers adjusted for an easier process, maybe even google will do. It's been like half a year since I read it...Hmm, that isn't what my prospective employer told me at the time but I don't doubt you're correct. I assumed things had changed, and not that I had been misinformed.
Nonetheless, I've been here twelve years as of this week, and 4.5 years in this canton so I guess it's time to think about naturalisation. Anyone with experiences of the process? I probably need to improve my language skills as my spoken german is poor due to working in an English language environment daily.
Back in 1998 (yeah, I know), it was rather straightforward. We had to live in the same town for the last seven years or so and we submitted our demand one year prior to the final verdict during which we had to answer basic questions regarding our faith (!), general stuff about Switzerland (including name of wines, rivers, summits, bilateral agreements with neighbouring countries, recent polls and also the political system in general) and relations we have had with Swiss people so far. Both my parents were popular immigrants and I was a fairly known kid in the town. One of the deciders was my math teacher so it all went well.
Strangely, I never felt foreign in Switzerland. But I know it would crush me a bit if I ever felt otherwise.
Work your Schwiizertüütsch and wait for the various deadlines and hopefully you're not from the Balkans nor from Africa (news from 2007).
Glass Rebel
Member
It's how my father came from Yugoslavia to Switzerland in the 90s, so it's definitely true
It really depends on your commune. Some might just require a small "test" where they talk to you about Swiss politics, geography, history and culture, others send out officials to your place and even talk to your neighbours. So unless you live in Niederhasli I can't really tell you
How "poor" is your German? They don't expect you to talk like a native speaker, my parents didn't 10 years ago (and still don't do, even though it's gotten much better) and we didn't have any problems.
Hmm, the faith one is odd.
From the UK, but told I look Swiss for what that's worth.
It really depends on your commune. Some might just require a small "test" where they talk to you about Swiss politics, geography, history and culture, others send out officials to your place and even talk to your neighbours. So unless you live in Niederhasli I can't really tell you
How "poor" is your German? They don't expect you to talk like a native speaker, my parents didn't 10 years ago (and still don't do, even though it's gotten much better) and we didn't have any problems.
I'm let down by my grammar and the gender word endings. English doesn't have these exceptions. My vocabulary is extensive (studied Latin at school which is very helpful here) and I can follow most conversations but I sometimes can't form the sentence quite correctly.
Glass Rebel
Member
Common mistakes among foreigners then and nothing to get hung up over. They just expect you to have simple conversations, nothing more.
I, for one, wish printing was invented later, so that all those Akkusativ, Dativ and Genitiv shit would have disappeared from the German language by the time the Bible was printed for the first time. Once we got a written, durable mention of these horrible grammar rules, it was all over.
Glass Rebel
Member
I don't mind them but even native speakers have trouble and often can't properly use the Genitiv. But I guess that's a Schwiizerdüütsch issue.
We don't have either Genetiv *or* Akkusativ in Swiss German. But Germans have a lot of trouble with the Genetiv as well. A sign of the times, I suppose, since, as we all know Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod.
Is the wording correct? It looks funny to me, is that actually the point or the sentence is correct?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I just want to say hi and declare Swiss French superior to France's French and all its variations.
That will be all.
That will be all.
Thank you. I mean "quatre vingt dix"? Seriously? Just say nonente!
Glass Rebel
Member
Yeah, that's what I meant
Great book as well, my German teacher loved it. (Still made mistakes :lol)
@Kenka: it's technically correct I guess but it's an (intentionally) clumsy way of saying "Der Dativ ist der Tod des Genitivs"
Haha, no, that's a typical, although particularly egregious bastardization of the Genitiv, a case of the Dativ awkwardly standing in for the Genitiv.
A more common example would be "Der Hund vom Gärtner" instead of "Der Hund des Gärtners".
No, it really isn't correct.
Damn, as a normal Romand, I tend to use the second form (well, the incorrect one) way more often than the first. I would always say "Der Hund vom Gärtner" or "Die Kirche von Lenzburg" although they would probably make any German-speaker cringe.
Es-tu sérieux? It's non-a-nte!
Or was it a joke
Glass Rebel
Member
I'm a descriptivist by nature /smug
nah. real austrians let germans do the dirty work.
In Swiss German there simply is no other way. You would always say "Dä Hund vom Gärtner". Again, we don't have a Genitiv.
However, "Die Kirche von Lenzburg" is of course correct either way. That's the Genitiv. You can't accidentally build a Dativ since Lenzburg is a place and doesn't require an article in the first place, just a preposition (Dativ "vom" is a construct of "von" [<- preposition] and "dem" [<- article]!).
compare:
"Die Kirche von Lenzburg"
"Die Kirche des Mannes" <- Here you can see the Genitiv clearly, I used a masculine noun on purpose, but you could still make the mistake of using the Dativ:
"Die Kirche vom Mann" <- bad
note: Colloquially using the Dativ instead of the Genitiv is usually not a problem if you're speaking German. Hell, a lot of Germans do it. But it's often a sign of, uh, less educated people and is heard more often in rural regions.
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