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Syria: Hundreds Killed In Chemical Attack

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demolitio

Member
Chemical warfare is shitty business. Even Hitler didn't dare use chemical weapons, some say it was because he was the victim of a gas attack during WW1. The Japanese had no issues with using it in China, but didn't use it against the Western Allies out of fear of retaliation. They even had explicit orders from the highest levels not to use it in the event of the Japanese mainland being invaded... and they were giving women and children spears by this point!

Yea, it was pretty much the line for most countries that they didn't dare cross. You know it has to be horrible when even enemies agree it's too damn bad to use on each other.

I couldn't imagine a worse way to go out given how long you suffer for with some of those agents.

I think if one nation used it during WWII (excluding China like you said since there couldn't be any retaliation really), I couldn't imagine what would've happened as a result.

Hell, even just training for chemical weapons was absolutely terrifying because they would have a timer going the whole time letting you know you died already if you were too slow. Just one of the scariest things to think about in a time of war.

I'm still laughing, you or your friend are rewriting history and making world news.

Well World Exclusive on NeoGAF, Iraq had trucks containing something “surprising” that nobody but demolitio's friends know about.

Still can't address my question and insist on being an ass still instead. Shocking news. Apparently you know that every weapon was destroyed or else we wouldn't have invaded too but that would be too ironic to address given your statements, right? If you ever want actual discussion, message me so you can laugh some more since you apparently know more than people actually there.
 

fanboi

Banned
I'm still laughing, you or your friends are rewriting history and making world news.

Well World Exclusive on NeoGAF, Iraq had trucks containing something “surprising” that nobody but demolitio's friends know about.

Dude, chili and stop being an asshat and try to conduct a proper discussion.
 

hym

Banned
Still can't address my question and insist on being an ass still instead. Shocking news. Apparently you know that every weapon was destroyed or else we wouldn't have invaded too but that would be too ironic to address given your statements, right? If you ever want actual discussion, message me so you can laugh some more since you apparently know more than people actually there.

Because your question was idiotic.

So why is everything else hearsay yet your shit with no proof is somehow unequivocally better than anyone that's actually been there, found a weapons cache, reported on the satellite imagery, surveilled comms, etc?

So UNSCOM and UNMOVIC investigating Iraq and destroying weapons for 12 years is “shit with no proof ”

Yet then you inject claims from the Colin Powell UN presentation and:

“anyone that's actually been there, found a weapons cache”

Let me get this straight because you might be the biggest clown I meet all week. US invades Iraq justified on allegations of possessing weapons in violation with the Chemical Weapons Convention that they ratified and the UN resolutions of disarmament that were imposed on them, US occupies Iraq for 10 years and finds nothing they accused Iraq of.

That's until August 22, 2013, when we learn the US military did find stuff but kept it a secret........
 

demolitio

Member
Because your question was idiotic.



So UNSCOM and UNMOVIC investigating Iraq and destroying weapons for 12 years is “shit with no proof ”

Yet then you inject claims from the Colin Powell UN presentation and:

“anyone that's actually been there, found a weapons cache”

Let me get this straight because you might be the biggest clown I meet all week. US invades Iraq justified on allegations of possessing weapons in violation with the Chemical Weapons Convention that they ratified and the UN resolutions of disarmament that were imposed on them, US occupies Iraq for 10 years and finds nothing they accused Iraq of.

That's until August 22, 2013, when we learn the US military did find stuff but kept it a secret........

I know you like to jump to conclusions to show your superiority but I know all about the investigations since the first Gulf War and that doesn't answer my question as to how that means ALL weapons were destroyed and if they weren't, the invasion wouldn't have happened? I don't think 12 years of reports is no proof, but you claimed all of it was destroyed and that we wouldn't have went in otherwise which you've yet to explain (apparently because it's a dumb question which is a convenient way of getting out of another conversation). I'm not talking about justification for the war, but how was it all disposed of before-hand to the point where nothing as found disregarding 400,000 documents alone that were leaked which doesn't include what wasn't? Did you still not read the major news sites that even posted about the leaked documents and what was found in just those reports alone?

Also, thanks for cherry-picking that quote and taking it out of context when it relates to you who just insults people somehow never having to discuss anything except calling others names yet people that have actually been there know less than you, including those in a decent position on the subject matter. I also don't recall ever using anything from Colin Powell's shit which I once again didn't agree with anyway. I never once said it justified the war and actually said it could have CAUSED some of the weapons to get in the hands of Syria.

The biggest clown you met all week was at least willing to discuss it civilly which is something you're incapable of. I know your position on this all too well along with other things thanks to some other threads so no need to be an ass over a comment pertaining to the thread.

You say they found nothing which says it all. Did they find what they expected? No. Did they find chemical weapons, laboratories, and remnants of recently moved chemical weapons? Yes, even some news networks talk about that. Not "big WMD's" or anything enough to justify war but enough to cause concern about what might have been missed or what was moved before the invasion officially began including people in the intelligence community that have more knowledge than you ever will including agencies from other nations that had no reason to justify the war (something I wasn't doing anyway but you keep going back to that as usual). I know there's plenty to read besides immediately dismissing someone and insulting them as if you're a damn scholar on the subject without even discussing it.

Anyway, I'm done. Continue picking and choosing your quotes without discussing anything and insulting people because we all know that's how you prove a point! Goodnight good buddy!

-1A831
 

jimi_dini

Member
US invades Iraq justified on allegations of possessing weapons in violation with the Chemical Weapons Convention that they ratified and the UN resolutions of disarmament that were imposed on them, US occupies Iraq for 10 years and finds nothing they accused Iraq of.

That wasn't even unexpected.

I clearly remember UN weapons inspector Hans Blix saying several times that there weren't any. All the fucking time. Even a few weeks before US attacked Iraq. But noone of US wanted to listen to the man.

And I quote:
In 2002, the commission began searching Iraq for weapons of mass destruction, ultimately finding none

You say they found nothing which says it all. Did they find what they expected? No. Did they find chemical weapons, laboratories, and remnants of recently moved chemical weapons? Yes, even some news networks talk about that. Not "big WMD's" or anything enough to justify war but

Oh no, they found something. Not weapons of mass destruction, but some other weapons and such.
I remember Putin saying something like "if I would have been in place of the Americans, I would have definitely found weapons of mass destruction tehe"

Your post reminds me of the changing goalposts tactic that was going on back then.

"We have to invade Iraq because of 9/11!!!!one"
- but Iraq had nothing to do with that
"Then we have to invade Iraq because of weapons of mass destructions!!!!!one Iraq is able to kill everyone in Europe!!!!1111 fear!!!!!111 Have to invade!!!!111"
- but Hans Blix said there were none and you also didn't found any
"Then we have to invade Iraq because Saddam Hussein is a bad dictator!!!!!one"

And now it's "It was a great thing to invade Iraq and kills thousands and thousands of people and ruin infrastructure, because we found some sort of weapons somewhere!!!!!one"

Just give it up. The whole Iraq war was wrong. US should have gotten punished for it in case this world would actually follow rule of law. And Iraq would be better off in case none of that US attacking Iraq would have happened - even an Iraq with Saddam Hussein in charge.

US soldiers should be deeply ashamed of all that.
 

demolitio

Member
That wasn't even unexpected.

I clearly remember UN weapons inspector Hans Blix saying several times that there weren't any. All the fucking time. Even a few weeks before US attacked Iraq. But noone of US wanted to listen to the man.

And I quote:

That's what I'm getting at. I'm not talking about big subjective WMD's or anything they supposedly went to war over, but caches of sarin gas, etc. that were found on top of what was moved in a hurry and suspected to go to Syria.

Believe me, the idea of going to war over those "WMD's" was stupid, but I'm just saying it would be a shame if some of the agents they did have did actually end up in the hands of Syria like suspected, then it would be an even bigger blunder to it all because it would be something we caused in a way.

Either way, it's scary to think about any of those regimes having access to those weapons as seen here. The bigger countries might have agreed not to use them in war ever, but some of these places haven't and Assad will use them if he's desperate.

Just in the past few decades, sarin gas has seen use:

1988: Over the span of two days in March, the ethnic Kurd city of Halabja in northern Iraq (population 70,000) was bombarded with chemical and cluster bombs, which included sarin, in the Halabja poison gas attack. An estimated 5,000 people died.[22]
1993: The United Nations Chemical Weapons Convention was signed by 162 member countries, banning the production and stockpiling of many chemical weapons, including sarin. It went into effect on 29 April 1997, and called for the complete destruction of all specified stockpiles of chemical weapons by April 2007.[23]
1994: The Japanese religious sect Aum Shinrikyo released an impure form of sarin in Matsumoto, Nagano. (see Matsumoto incident)
1995: Aum Shinrikyo sect released an impure form of sarin in the Tokyo Metro. Thirteen people died. (see Sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway)
1998: In the US, Time Magazine and CNN ran false news stories alleging that in 1970 U.S. Air Force A-1E Skyraiders engaged in a covert operation called Operation Tailwind, in which they deliberately dropped sarin-containing weapons on U.S. troops who had defected in Laos. CNN and Time Magazine later retracted the stories and fired the producers responsible.[24]
2004: Iraqi insurgents detonated a 155 mm shell containing binary precursors for sarin near a U.S. convoy in Iraq. The shell was designed to mix the chemicals as it spins during flight. The detonated shell released only a small amount of sarin gas, either because the explosion failed to mix the binary agents properly or because the chemicals inside the shell had degraded with age. Two United States soldiers were treated after displaying the early symptoms of exposure to sarin.[25]
2012: Syria was thought by the United States to have sarin gas mixed to be used as weapons.[26]
2013: The United Nations has investigated reports that the Syrian Government in the Syrian civil war has used sarin,[27][28][29] use of the gas has been confirmed by French officials. According to French officials,[30] the gas has been used by the Syrian Government .[31][32] UN findings indicate that the FSA rebels possess sarin gas

OMFG, APPARENTLY PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO READ THE PARTS THAT SAY I WASN'T FOR THE WAR AND WAS JUST MENTIONING THE THOUGHT OF CHEMICAL WEAPONS LIKE SARIN GAS, ETC. GOING TO SYRIA FROM IRAQ BASED ON SOME DOCUMENTS, INTEL AGENCIES, AND FRIENDS AND COWORKERS.

I'm not trying to justify it so I'm not sure why you're up in arms just for the sake of voicing your opinion on war again. I'm not for it nor does any of this justify it, but the weapons we did find plus what was suspected to be moved is scary to think about and I would hate it if Syrian civilians died due to something that was smuggled due to the war. I don't know how many times I can state my opinion on the war before you guys stop acting like that's the topic at hand when it was about the agents that were found. If anything, those found are getting up there in age and the mix won't be as good ir might be unstable.

I'm talking about the chemical weapons and not about the war. Like I said, I'm worried we might have caused some of the smaller agents to be lost and placed into bad hands. I'm not sure why we can't talk about it without automatically jumping to the conclusion that I'm a stupid war supporter that is moving goalposts. How are we not allowed to talk about what chemicals were found when I even said it wasn't justifiable for war? Assuming something that was clearly stated just so you can pounce on someone over the war (even if he agrees with you) seems pretty odd. If you want your anti-military anger release, aim elsewhere. Telling me and my friends we should be ashamed as if we were the ones that decided to start the war is incredibly naive and is lacking any understanding of how the military works. Hate all you want, but I'm not going to magically become a supporter of the war just to be your punching bag for this passive aggressive bullshit.
 

jimi_dini

Member
Either way, it's scary to think about any of those regimes having access to those weapons as seen here. The bigger countries might have agreed not to use them in war ever, but some of these places haven't and Assad will use them if he's desperate.

Why just that and not weapons in general?

And what about depleted uranium weapons used by US?

Did you know that EU stopped weapons export to Egypt yesterday? to make this clear - the assholes here stopped giving out weapons to egypt Y-E-S-T-E-R-D-A-Y. And to stop this completely we wouldn't even have to attack a country. We would just have to stop exporting weapons.

Telling me and my friends we should be ashamed as if we were the ones that decided to start the war is incredibly naive and is lacking any understanding of how the military works.

The military works in case people work for the military. Get it? It's pretty simple.
If you are in fact a US soldier, you had the choice to quit your job. Noone forced you to do it. You would even have the choice to quit now. If you don't, you actively support this crap.

You could say: well, I have to follow orders.
So where would be your stopping point?
Order 1: Shoot these US civilians
Order 2: Shoot these people from US, that you know from high-school
Order 3: Shoot your friends
Order 4: Shoot your family
Order 5: Shoot yourself

I guess anyone sane should stop following orders at at least one of those orders.
 

Fularu

Banned
How did you read that and conclude the rebels gassed themselves? Like I said, baseless conspiracy theories.

They fucked up? Most of the "rebels" attack on Damascus have targeted the christian district (Bab Tuma). Odd of it exploding to their face? Infinitely higher than the SAA suddenly using chems right when UN inspectors arrive.
 

CHEEZMO™

Obsidian fan
They fucked up? Most of the "rebels" attack on Damascus have targeted the christian district (Bab Tuma). Odd of it exploding to their face? Infinitely higher than the SAA suddenly using chems right when UN inspectors arrive.

How did they accidentally release large amounts of the chemical in several different districts miles apart simultaneously, in time with sporadic conventional shelling of many of those areas by the government forces on Qassioun? They're advanced enough to secretly manufacture large amounts of weaponised, toxic chemicals, develop the advanced deployment systems to release them (you dont just put a jar of the stuff in a rocket and crash it into the ground) and then simultaneously launch all of their DIY WMDs vertically at the same time (they were all wired up to a single master-switch held by al-Baghdadi himself in his Mossad bunker)? And not one of them failed?

hurr
 
CHEEZMO™;77708021 said:
How did they accidentally release large amounts of the chemical in several different districts miles apart simultaneously, in time with sporadic conventional shelling of many of those areas by the government forces on Qassioun? They're advanced enough to secretly manufacture large amounts of weaponised, toxic chemicals, develop the advanced deployment systems to release them (you dont just put a jar of the stuff in a rocket and crash it into the ground) and then simultaneously launch all of their DIY WMDs vertically at the same time (they were all wired up to a single master-switch held by al-Baghdadi himself in his Mossad bunker)? And not one of them failed?

hurr

CHEEZMO™;77630089 said:
And what do the opposition have to gain from launching a large-scale chemical attack on several of their own strongholds within Damascus. Not only would this massively jeopardise their hold on the capital's suburbs (where they've been steadily advancing), but it would also be a waste of these supposed stockpiles of chemical weapons they have lying around. Why not launch all that shit at Qassioun? If they did that they could probably take all of Damascus within a few weeks, because that's where Assad's military is stationed and where a lot of the RG units in the city are based out of. You could take out half the city's garrison in a single strike.

But no, better to bomb our own territory and kill a load of sleeping women and kids in the middle of the night because FALSE FLAG. You could just ask this about pretty much any action - "Why did Israel use WP in Gaza/cluster munitions in Lebanon? Who does it benefit? There's no need for them to do so."

And LAFFO if you think Assad can even win. It's physically impossible, barring some world-altering shift in power. The absolute best-case for him would be fighting the enemy to a standstill and clearing Damascus of opposition fighters. Massive amounts of Hezbollah fighters, right on the Lebanese border, backed by the NDF and the SAA, along with all their artillery, tank and air support, took their sweet-ass time to take a small town. And in that fight HB sustained the heaviest loss rate they'd seen since 2006.

The whole "but Assad is winning!!" thing is just some bullshit media narrative cooked up to keep things 'interesting'. He's been steadily losing in Derra, Raqqa, Deir ez-Zor, Aleppo governate and Aleppo city, Damascus and its suburbs, and ISIS recently got within rocket range of his hometown in their (largely symbolic) incursion into Latakia. The only place he's been consistenly taking ground is Homs and that's at a slow grind. Dude can't even reinforce his bases without his helicopters getting shot down and his convoys fucked up. But ooo, he's gonna sweep North any day now and take Aleppo!!.

This is what living in an information bubble does to your perspective.

Your quickly becoming my favourite poster on these conspiracy theory issues. Keep shooting 'em down mate!

I was looking around for videos and information on the Egypt problem a couple of weeks ago and noticed that both sides are saying that the US and/or Israel is allies with the opposing side. The MB guys saying that Sisi and Army is supported by US and so on (which he is of course, but that's not the point), and the Sisi supporters saying that the MB is backed by the Americans for some nefarious reason.

Stop having this damn idea that US is some kind of god-like power that can affect absolutely everything in the ME. You're actually giving them too much praise.
 

hym

Banned
For all the experts on here: Unconfirmed reports of chemical weapons use in Syria complicate U.S. role

“There seem to be increasing amounts of footage of very realistic-appearing injuries commensurate with a chemical attack, but (that is) still leaving lots of questions,” said Stephen Johnson, a visiting fellow at Cranfield University’s Forensics Institute in Great Britain. “It would appear that patients have been injured by what might be a rapid attempt to inject atropine,” a potentially poisonous compound that’s sometimes used as an antidote to sarin exposure.

Johnson noted that videos had moved to the Internet quickly early Wednesday. More typically, footage from the rebel side is posted gradually over the course of a day or longer. It can be difficult to access the Web in the area amid regular power outages and ongoing fighting.

Still, some of the symptoms are commensurate with exposure to nerve gas, “which might be sarin,” he said. “But you can’t tell that in a video.”

If he can't, you can't.

The latest charges imply that the Syrian government deployed banned weapons at the same time that international observers arrived to investigate earlier rebel claims of their use, and longtime observers found the timing nonsensical.
 

AwRy108

Member
So many precious, beautiful lives taken; and for f*cking what? Can't hold back the tears after watching that third video...
 

spineduke

Unconfirmed Member
Chemical weapons expert says chemical attack may have been an accident caused by the FSA

Would make sense, especially considering that the government just allowed UN chemical weapons inspectors into the country. The FSA probably used the accident as an opportunity to attack the government and get sympathy.

You realize that he's making his claims based off nothing but pure speculation? It doesn't also account for how multiple areas within the suburbs were hit, unless they really did throw it on themselves. Because banking on international support after 100,000 are already dead is a great strategy!
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
You realize that he's making his claims based off nothing but pure speculation? It doesn't also account for how multiple areas within the suburbs were hit, unless they really did throw it on themselves. Because banking on international support after 100,000 are already dead is a great strategy!

He may be basing it off speculation, but guess what all the claims so far are? Yup, that's right, they're all speculation and hearsay. Even the US is refusing to support one claim over the other right now.

Maybe you should look at the definition of a false flag attack? Not saying that the government isn't involved(they very well may be), but there are so many factions within the rebels that a false flag attack by one faction without the knowledge of others is not outside the realm of possibility.

So that's why they won't allow the chemical weapons inspectors into the area then! It all makes bullshit sense!

Makes about as much sense as attacking innocent civilians with chemical weapons 15km away from where the UN inspectors are staying, right?

That said, the Syrian government better allow the UN inspectors to inspect the site of the attack.
 
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