Papa
Banned
Dunki, you nasty.
Cya Kiev Keene... fucking commie.
You drunk bro?
Dunki, you nasty.
Cya Kiev Keene... fucking commie.
I don't believe your sexual preference is a choice, but it is something that develops naturally later in life. In that sense, it's a "choice" that is out of your hands.
How can you simultaneously not be born that way and not choose something?
I can't speak for anyone but me, but I remember crushing on boys when I was 8. Apparently other people could tell as well, since they never missed an opportunity to mention it.So do you believe people are born gay, straight, bi, etc, and that their sexual preference lies dormant in them until puberty?
That doesn't make sense to me, but ok. Everyone is different, I guess.I think people are born without a sexual preference, and that develops naturally through puberty
How can you both not born that way and not choose something?
Here is my very unqualified opinion on it. First of all it makes no biological sense to be gay. There is just none. So what I beleive is that there is a change in the DNA that makes people prefer their own gender. How it works I do not know but that there is something different should be out of the question. That does not mean tha homosexual people have some kind of defect but rather that they are different.But would you say that people are "born gay" or "born straight," then? I wouldn't. I don't believe your sexual preference is a choice, but it is something that develops naturally later in life. In that sense, it's a "choice" that is out of your hands. The idea that you can't "choose" to believe or not believe in God either is perhaps more similar than it sounds at first.
I should also say that the exchange yourself, mckmas, and valor are having is a great example of the kind of respectful conversation about serious topics that I like to see here, and you've all made some good points.
If you agree that what you believe is not a choice, don't you feel it is wildly unfair to disrciminate people according to whether they believe in a specific deity / prophet? As in: Yahweh's distinct discrimination in treatment of people after their death depending on their belief should be regarded as an unfair and cruel measure, right?On the other hand, is my being a Christian "purely a choice," as you say? No, I don't think so. I can choose to eat pizza instead of ice cream, but I can not choose to stop believing that Jesus is the son of God. Can you choose to stop believing that the world is round? Our beliefs don't work like that. Of course as a Christian I do engage in countless choices and acts of the will on my faith journey. I go to mass, a choice. I receive the Eucharist, read the scriptures and so on, all choices. But really, my faith is not a choice for me. I feel I cannot do other than to believe and because I believe I see this as a gift from God, that I did not earn.
If you agree that what you believe is not a choice, don't you feel it is wildly unfair to disrciminate people according to whether they believe in a specific deity / prophet? As in: Yahweh's distinct discrimination in treatment of people after their death depending on their belief should be regarded as an unfair and cruel measure, right?
Is it a choice even if you're raised like that without much of an option to do anything otherwise until you're at least into your mid teens? Not sure it's that clear cut. Then there's cultural heritage as well, it's hard to break free from your sole reality when something is that deep-seated into who you are.
You have a choice to "believe" it's real or not. Whether you keep going to the place of worship may not be up to you, but you can choose in your mind and heart that it's not real or the truth.
But do you really have a choice when a lifestyle is imposed on you?
When you are a kid living at home? Not much of a choice. And you're too young (for most people to really figure this whole world out) it can be hard. But when you are an adult? Yes you have a choice. Religion is 100% a choice for all adults. You opt into it.
Even if it was imposed on to you as a child, at some point when you are an adult you make a choice to stay or at a minimum continue to believe what you were taught.
While I'm a stern believer in adults' freedom of choice where it comes to belief systems, I also can't deny there's such a thing as indoctrination of belief systems in humans, where people cannot even start to recognize something was imposed on them, in order to start questioning it.When you are a kid living at home? Not much of a choice. And you're too young (for most people to really figure this whole world out) it can be hard. But when you are an adult? Yes you have a choice. Religion is 100% a choice for all adults. You opt into it.
Even if it was imposed on to you as a child, at some point when you are an adult you make a choice to stay or at a minimum continue to believe what you were taught.
Deciding which church to go to, or even whether or not to go to church are examples of choices. Deciding whether or not to believe in God is not a choice. I can choose today to have soup or a sandwich for lunch. I can choose which restaurant I go to, or decide to stay at home. But I can't choose to be gay or straight, just like I can't choose to believe in God or not.
When you are a kid living at home? Not much of a choice. And you're too young (for most people to really figure this whole world out) it can be hard. But when you are an adult? Yes you have a choice. Religion is 100% a choice for all adults. You opt into it.
Even if it was imposed on to you as a child, at some point when you are an adult you make a choice to stay or at a minimum continue to believe what you were taught.
Then how to explain gang-related offenses and the incarceration rate of black people in the US? Is it a choice or the consequences of inheriting a behavior pattern and social conditions that are ingrained by whatever means into a specific community/local culture?
Weird that you put gang-related offenses right beside the incarceration rate of black people side by side as if they are one in the same. Hmmmm..... There's a 350 year history of how bad black people have been treated (unequally literally by the law) in this country. Not sure what you mean about the gang-related offenses though.
Note the difference between believing in and worshiping. One decides whether one worships something, so it could still be argued that punishing someone for worshipping may be OK (though of course, it is quite the offensive thing to do either way).If God says don't worship any Gods besides him, and you chose to worship other gods, you have made an informed decision to disobey, and disobedience has consequences.
To put the blame on God for that is like blaming your parents for punishing you because they told you not to lie and you told a lie.
That would be quite the dilluded and self-righteous argument. But Valor wrote about the general fact that what you believe is not a choice, there is nothing in his text displaying this level of religious arrogance that indicates he is applying this exclusively to himself and his beliefs.Instead of trying to catch Valor in a gotcha moment where you take the immutability of his faith and apply it to people of other faiths as if such immutability is inmately born within us, and therefore, if no one can change faiths, then it would be cruel for God to say do not worship anything or anyone else besides me, you should probably just press the question of why Val0r's faith in Jesus immutable.
Reading the post l, it appears that s/he is arguing a case exclusive to themselves.
79% of gang members are either black or hispanic, while the incarceration rate of black people is significantly higher than the race representation in the general population, which means black people get arrested proportionally way more than white people. Those things are not one in the same, but they are related. Now, does this happen because they chose to do that or because of the cultural baggage that comes from decades of social marginalization (which you even alluded to in your post)? That's of course a rhetorical question, it happens because of the historical context. The same rules apply for a fuckload of religious people. They don't really choose to be religious, they inherit religion.
Let me phrase it differently: does one really choose to be a gang member or is he kind of forced to be like that because they only know that lifestyle? And I mention gangs not because of the black stereotype, but because it's a specific criminal behavior that's tied to a continuing social construction (regardless of the gang member's race).
Note the difference between believing in and worshiping. One decides whether one worships something, so it could still be argued that punishing someone for worshipping may be OK (though of course, it is quite the offensive thing to do either way).
That would be quite the dilluded and self-righteous argument. But Valor wrote about the general fact that what you believe is not a choice, there is nothing in his text displaying this level of religious arrogance that indicates he is applying this exclusively to himself and his beliefs.
I gotcha. The answer to your question is obviously a mixed of both. It's easy to be a gang member when your upbringing is surrounded by gangs and it's a lifestyle that's in your face. And then the society around you doesn't help or protect you enough like it should, so gangs become a great place to socialize, network, and in some cases have a sense of family. But lets not act like at the end of the day there isn't a choice to "join" a gang. It's one thing to be friends with or hang around gang members. It's another thing to literally join one. In most cases those people are choosing to join the gang. Even in the face of the danger of a bad neighborhood, you don't have to actually join the gang.
I'd apply that same thinking with religion. Now I'm "ONLY" speaking in America and most Western-style countries. I have zero clue on what it's like in Asian or Muslim countries.
Basically, everyone should watch The Wire.
Basically, everyone should watch The Wire.
No truer words were ever spoken. I often talk a lot to my friends about how The Wire is the GOAT when they bring up Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones and they always look at me like I'm crazy, but like where's Omar or The Bunk in BB or GOT?
I enjoy watching Breaking Bad more, but I think The Wire is a better show. I find Breaking Bad's story to be superior, but The Wire is much more profound in its message and subject matter. It's a close #1/#2 for me, though.
I need to get back to watching The Wire. Tried watching it with my roommate back in my Freshman year at college, but fell off after the first season. Does it get better as it goes on?
I need to get back to watching The Wire. Tried watching it with my roommate back in my Freshman year at college, but fell off after the first season. Does it get better as it goes on?
Seasons 3 and 4 are some of the best television ever made
I don't want to make this a "Wire" thread but my favorite season is the first one. Followed by 3,4,5, and then 2. And 2 is really good. It just goes in a different direction that's hard to love until you watch Seasons 3 and 4.
Because I personally feel otherwise, as I described above. I think people are born without a sexual preference, and that develops naturally through puberty.
There is research that shows sexuality maybe determined in the womb. The development of the hypothalamus is influenced by the hormones its exposed to. Also there is a genetic link, so that if you have a gay family member, it increases the odds of others in the family being gay.
As for neogaf, I wasn't around when the forum exodus happened. I first joined around 2006-2007 but lost my password about 5 years ago. I still lurked occasionally and noticed the forum going towards one extreme on the political spectrum. Out of curiosity, I have checked the new forum the agitators set up. There is currently a thread on there lamenting the fact that some poll revealed 98-99% of straight people would not consider dating a trans person. And most of the people replying think that it's sad and bigoted. All I can say is, wow.
I enjoy watching Breaking Bad more, but I think The Wire is a better show. I find Breaking Bad's story to be superior, but The Wire is much more profound in its message and subject matter. It's a close #1/#2 for me, though.
There is research that shows sexuality maybe determined in the womb. The development of the hypothalamus is influenced by the hormones its exposed to. Also there is a genetic link, so that if you have a gay family member, it increases the odds of others in the family being gay.
As for neogaf, I wasn't around when the forum exodus happened. I first joined around 2006-2007 but lost my password about 5 years ago. I still lurked occasionally and noticed the forum going towards one extreme on the political spectrum. Out of curiosity, I have checked the new forum the agitators set up. There is currently a thread on there lamenting the fact that some poll revealed 98-99% of straight people would not consider dating a trans person. And most of the people replying think that it's sad and bigoted. All I can say is, wow.
Yeah, it's depressing to see that most of engaged people were also the most "political correct". But what can you do...I think OT just has too much political/social issue stuff at the moment. We need more people creating topics about other stuff and random fun things. It's the internet, so political discussion is going to always be a little heated at times. It just gets a bit draining when most of the threads created are about these topics. The board is much better to post on then prior to the exodus, but still has some growing to do.
Yeah, I feel you, man.Yeah, it's depressing to see that most of engaged people were also the most "political correct". But what can you do...
Come to speak of it.... I think what bothered me most about the old forum (and made me leave the new one a few weeks back for good) is that all this political and social correctness is such... bullshit. I mean, as we've seen people preach this shit all the time and then when you just look a bit closer you find that the very same people preaching (except maybe a selected few) have shit on their shoes on one way or the other. Makes me sick and I'm still upset that this behaviour was tolerated here for so long. The only reason I came back is that I still remember this forum wasn't always like this (so I've seen both good and bad) and therefore I'm willing to give it another chance. But man, it was so infuriating. Being afraid to write your opinion even though you aren't insulting anyone directly... that's not how we should have discussions. Prove me wrong if you think I am, don't just ban me. What the fuck?
I don't want to make this a "Wire" thread but my favorite season is the first one. Followed by 3,4,5, and then 2. And 2 is really good. It just goes in a different direction that's hard to love until you watch Seasons 3 and 4.