At least he's got a mustache + goatee custom in Tekken 7
Hopefully he'll get his classic dragon 'stache too.
The cardinal sin of Tekken Tag 2 was having zero facial hair customizations for Law.
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Tekken Story and Lore Discussion Thread
- Thread starter The Artisan
- Start date
At least he's got a mustache + goatee custom in Tekken 7
Hopefully he'll get his classic dragon 'stache too.
The cardinal sin of Tekken Tag 2 was having zero facial hair customizations for Law.
T7 has to be her return, the Mishima family feud is wrapping up. There's no way Jun can't show up
Nah, the next 7 games will be "the Kazama Saga"
Is she even... relevant?
The story is about this kazumi stuff , she kind of doesn't really need to be anywhere
...she's the lover of kazuya, mother of Jin, and a big part of both of their 'light side' character development. of course she is relevant. That will be a big part of the key to ending the cycle definitely.
I don't see how one could see otherwise. Kazumi will be important, but i bet Jun will also be important, and Xiao as well.
I don't see any of these Mishima dudes coming out of T7s story looking to take over the world or kill each other, and that is not going to happen just with Kazuya's mom's plotline.
Should have had a Santa Claus beard tbh
Not to degrade her character, but outside of doing the do with kazuya and being a focus for jin's rage. she's kind of irrelevant? Both jin and kazuya have evovled as characters post her death, along with that kazumi's an heihachi's thing seem way more relevant to thosw two how they are who they are as people. Jin's found someone who fills his heart with good things, and kazuya is about to move on with his life, the old fashioned way.
not for nothing but, I think this is a situation where you may have liked a character, that they were planning to use for an important story bit a long ass time ago. And they changed the story, and just never got around to it. Both kazuya's and Jin's stories could just fuction with kazuya dealing with his mom and jin confiding in Xaoi , which the latter way more interesting.
She's kind of not needed anymore.
It happens a lot, they start up a storyline in something come up with a better solution, and don't really address that one thing they started. Yeah they'll say " oh she's not dead" but they probably aren't going to do anything about it.
If we are being serious, then no, I'm sure she won't show up in Tekken 7 even though she's related to everyone.
omnislayer
Member
I have been following Tekken's story for a long time and I have no idea where the Wang thing came from, nothing in the game manual, the game itself, or even the arcade version implies he died.
It just seems like something hardcore fans assumed since he wasn't in Tekken 3 or 4.
At least for Jun people had that arcade eyecatcher with Orgre holding a severed head to go off of.
For Wang it really was just wild mass guessing that somehow became fact for a lot of people.
Yeah, It would be kinda pointless to bring her back outside of fan request... Actually, it would oonly complicate things as you'd need to explain why she's back NOW and why she's relevant to the Kazuya-Heihachi conflict (expecially when we already have a Kazama avaiable who's just stuck in a stupid rivalry with Not-Karin for fanservice purposes).
She would bring only more chaos to the story
In the arcade version of Tekken 3, Anna was just a third costume for Nina.
CrispyBoar
Banned
If they're going to bring her back, then she'll most likely appear as a NPC character.
Just checked. Wow, you're right. Learn something new everyday.
The Artisan
Member
I've been following it for a long time too if you look at my OP and again even though I cannot prove it, I am sure this was the case. The Tekken wiki implies it but also notes that it is not confirmed either.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Reading through my official guides right now, Bruce was believed to have died in a plane crash, "silenced" by Kazuya in Lei's storyline.
But Lei didn't fall for that and thinks the accident was staged.
Baek is certainly killed as it is written "Then, terrible news - Ogre claims Baek as yet another victim." in Hwo's bio.
King as well was killed by Ogre according to A. King to King II.
Via Purifico
Banned
I don't see why Jun should be left out as a playable character. DOA keeps irrelevant story characters all the time without messing with the lore.
But this game is about closure is it that hard to write where she's been? she doesn't have to have a huge impact either. Either way I am fine with her being in or staying out.
I have plenty others on the roster to play with and learn.
But this game is about closure is it that hard to write where she's been? she doesn't have to have a huge impact either. Either way I am fine with her being in or staying out.
I have plenty others on the roster to play with and learn.
The Artisan
Member
boom. there we go. bruce was the only character returning in tekken 5 that made sense to me. baek & wang, as far as I understand it, are retcons. and part of xiao's and hwoarang's motivations for entering koif3 was to avenge them.
harada clarified several times that it wasn't jun's head ogre was holding, contrary to popular belief.
omnislayer
Member
Much later. That could be one of those retcons.
Anyway I did some digging and the Wang thing has no evidence ANYWHERE. It seems that it has always been fanon that became accepted as truth by the fanbase for some reason. No one ever questioned it despite there never being any references anywhere to Wang being killed by Ogre.
I thought Ogre killed him too, but only because my friend said so. He also told me Jun was Angel lol.
I think it was just a matter of widely spread misinformation.
Edit I checked my local T3 arcade cabinet to see if I was missing anything but it said nothing about Wang.
Via Purifico
Banned
This should really be the actual ending staff roll, great send off of the saga.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um8BtEMJ3ck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um8BtEMJ3ck
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Ling entered 3 to win an amusement park. There's no mention of Wang.
Tizoc
Member
Iirc paul reached thr finals of tekken 3 but did not fight ogre
Black Mantis
Member
Great thread, as I lost touch with the series after Tekken 3. Tekken's story was always the biggest draw for me, as I much prefer Virtua Fighter's mechanics, but have great memories of going to my mate's house and blitzing through each character's story.
Actually, IIRC, half of Kazuya's devil powers went to Jin before he was incinerated in the volcano. Jun fought it off at first, but it eventually got to Jin. In Tekken 4, I think Kazuya was trying to get it back. And so their feud began. I may be mistaken, I haven't read up Tekken lore in a long time.
The Artisan
Member
As I said in the OP, there are several retcons that I believe took place that I cannot prove. For instance, Bruce and Bryan were supposed to be drug dealing partners, they even had a special intro in TTT but this was later retconned into them not having anything to do with each other.
as for wang, the wiki says
I can't prove it, but it makes sense to me given how this series has seen so many retcons
I said part of the reason she entered was to avenge Wang. I'm aware of her amusement park enthusiasm. There's no mention of Wang because the older details are barely mentioned at all; someone posted above that they found a source for baek's retcon.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Believe me, I get that as I've been invested in the story for years. I'm just countering because you seemed to have stated it as fact when in reality, it's hard to find in official writing. But yes, it HAD been believed he/they were killed because Ogre "took" their moves. But a retcon is only deemed such when the story in writing has been changed.
Though it could be argued that Baek as "yet another victim" of Ogre could have just been the attack that left him unconscious as mentioned in his T5 bio. "Death" and "Killed" were never mentioned, nor was a funeral shown so it isn't quite a retcon.
As far as Bruce and Bryan, that may be simply because they shared fighting styles. Bryan's story only mentions "dark rumors" and having connections with drug dealers. Bruce's story never mentions he being a drug dealer.
The Artisan
Member
I'm not trying to say it as fact; I'm just saying it how I remember it, you know? Like, who am I to tell you or anyone else you're wrong because I remember it differently. Unless it is written to be proven otherwise but that's exactly it; I cannot prove these are retcons but that's what my memory is serving correctly. So you don't have to take my word for it. Same goes for what I said about Bruce & Bryan
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
I was just providing lore from official sources to add to the discussion. I think I misinterpreted the posts I've quoted.
SkylineRKR
Member
Back when Tekken 3 was big, Ogre was supposed to have killed a bunch of T2 sub bosses. I think I read it in numerous reviews way back. I think the manual stated he merely attacked them, and since he had their moves and they weren't in the game the outlets just ran with the story.
The Artisan
Member
I understand that. (I don't mean this rudely) Think and believe what you want, as I will do the same. Either way, I just wanted to establish that retcons have taken place a lot in the tekken franchise. But as this is a story thread, there is a lot more to discuss regarding the lore and what not.
yeah, I remember it as the latter based on conversations on the old manji-clan forum.
CrispyBoar
Banned
Once again, Ogre. Never. Attacked. Wang. Nor. Did. He. Kill. Anybody.
Can we let this go now?
The Artisan
Member
Once. Again. No. I firmly believe Wang was killed by Ogre as well as several other characters, some of which were retconned into just being injured by him. We don't have to agree on that, but you aren't convincing me otherwise and my stance should not affect you that much. I just wanted to establish that this franchise has had a lot of retcons, minor to major.
But as I said to Moonsaultslayer, this thread is about story and lore discussion which spans across 7 games and two non-canonical yet major installments so yes, let's move on.
CrispyBoar
Banned
There were other posters that provided evidence that Ogre never attacked Wang, & there is no proof that he killed anybody, especially not Baek. Plus just because Baek was claimed as a victim, doesn't exactly prove that he was ever dead to begin with, nor did Namco even mentioned that Baek was dead.
*Sigh*
I give up, because this is going nowhere & you're still not getting it. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
*Sigh*
I give up, because this is going nowhere & you're still not getting it. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
The Artisan
Member
I admitted many that I can't prove it but I just remember it differently. Let's agree to disagree, there's so many other things we can be discussing here
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
I think the problem here is you're not separating fan theories and head canon from facts based on the official story. It's safe to assume we all had those same thoughts and conclusions during those eras. But in a thread discussing story and retcons, we should be discussing what's in writing from the official sources, not Manji clan or Tekken Zaibatsu forums.
For instance, Bruce's T5 story not acknowledging the events between T2 and 3 established in Lei's bio is something to complain about more so than characters we thought Ogre killed but never explicitly stated as such.
Why insist, then?
Yes about Jun.
No about Law, Im really not a fan of his moustache. Keep that strictly a customizable face item.
The Artisan
Member
But to me it's not a fan theory. It's a retcon that got lost in translation of time, and that's exactly the thing; if at that time, 2000-2004 the belief was that those characters were killed, it's likely that was the case, since a decade later it is established that they were injured or didn't cross paths with Ogre at all. But we don't have to spend the entire time trying to debate the retcons. Let's just agree to disagree.
I'm not trying to say everyone has to agree with me. I can insist we move on though.
Again, if you have no evidence, why insist?
Well, I hope so. I just don't see the point in disagreeing like you do (see also your "Once. Again. No." above) when you have no evidence to support your position. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.
Cyber Caesar
Member
I was just reading about Bruce on his wiki page. I don't know how accurate all that stuff is that's there, but the story content that's on the wiki is interesting. I think it would be great if Namco could find a way to put all this content in a in-game character encyclopedia. As a fan who has been with Tekken since the first game, I have overlooked so much about this character. He's one of the more grounded characters to be honest.
The Artisan
Member
Insisting what? I'm not pressing my beliefs on anyone, just explaining my stance on things.
The evidence has been lost throughout the years and I can't prove it, but it does not matter. I'm going to continue to believe it.
Then drop the discussion and let's about something else...
Thank you! They've stated numerous times that this game will be very story focused as we're wrapping up the MISHIMA SAGA, and there's no way in hell they'll leave out a character that has an important link to said family. People want her, the story will need her, take the L about your character not making it and deal with it.
Do you honestly believe that? The first game is only 20 years old or so.
It's simple enough, really: if it's been stated at some point (in official material such as an official site, instructions booklet or some official guide) that those characters died, it's a retcon. Otherwise, it isn't.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Exactly. I have books that date as far back as their release and they were VERY careful NOT to say "kill", "death" etc in absolute terms. In retrospect, one could assume they did this on purpose to potentially bring some of these characters back.
Holding onto anything else is just fanfic material at this point. You'd have to be fairly young to use such terminology as "lost to time" when referring to Tekken lore.
Speaking of, I seem to remember some guy wrote a story FAQ for the series that was mostly fanfiction, and that ended up poisoning a bunch of sites (Wikipedia among others) for years. That kind of stuff doesn't exactly help...
(For the record, I'm not entirely sure whether or not there was some retcon going on in regard to Ogre's killcount, personally. It's been a while, and I'd have to go through all the official material. I just find it weird to repeatedly post stuff like "no, you're wrong (even if I have zero evidence)").