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Opinion Drama The Jimquisition - It's Microsoft's Fault That Videogames Are Bad

RevenantX

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Revisionist history. What was the last Sony exclusive with MTX, btw?

Sony Games with multiplayer or online features includes MTX like Uncharted 4,Drive club, Tlou, MLB Show nd all.

Games with SP only don't include MTX. Spiderman had no MTX but it had paid expansions.


Both Sony and MS offers optional cosmetic MTX while offering free gameplay content and MS even offers dedicated servers. None of the companies offer P2W MTX.

MS now offers their games for also dirt cheap via GP.

MTX are not bad if done right for example Ovewatch, Titanfall2 nd all.
 
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Sony Games with multiplayer or online features includes MTX like Uncharted 4,Drive club, Tlou, MLB Show nd all.

Games with SP only don't include MTX. Spiderman had no MTX but it had paid expansions.


Both Sony and MS offers optional cosmetic MTX while offering free gameplay content and MS even offers dedicated servers. None of the companies offer P2W MTX.

MS now offers their games for also dirt cheap via GP.

MTX are not bad if done right for example Ovewatch, Titanfall2 nd all.
Yeah, so you're missing the idea behind what I'm asking. Besides the sports game the last MTX in a Sony exclusive you list is from 2016, 3 years ago. The last Microsoft game was Gears 5, which just released. Last year XBOX had State of Decay 2 with lootboxes, Sea of Thieves is getting an MTX store, Halo Wars 2 has MTX. All of these are more recent than Uncharted 4. It's arguable all the articles about Uncharted 4's MTX is what has kept Sony from doing them since and that shining a light on Xbox still doing it will help them take the same path.
 
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TheAdmiester

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2 year old racing game, when I brought up my Microsoft examples from this year and last year I didn't bother with Forza because it's a racing game, it's just to be expected. You're also still going back 2 years.
But Forza also hasn't had them since FH3 in 2016, so it's more disqualified by "not having them" than "being a racing game". I don't just expect them in racing games either.
 
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RevenantX

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Yeah, so you're missing the idea behind what I'm asking. Besides the sports game the last MTX in a Sony exclusive you list is from 2016, 3 years ago. The last Microsoft game was Gears 5, which just released. Last year XBOX had State of Decay 2 with lootboxes, Sea of Thieves is getting an MTX store, Halo Wars 2 has MTX. All of these are more recent than Uncharted 4. It's arguable all the articles about Uncharted 4's MTX is what has kept Sony from doing them since and that shining a light on Xbox still doing it will help them take the same path.
State of decay had loot box? Go check again. Clearly you have not played SoD2. SoT has no MTX just paid DLC missions just like Spiderman.


Sea of thieves added purely optional cosmetic MTX which are earnable in game now after releasing tons of free gameplay content.

Tlou2 will have MTX in multiplayer just like Tlou 1, i can bet 100$ on it and no one will complain coz MTX will be all optiional cosmetic.



.
 
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RevenantX

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2 year old racing game, when I brought up my Microsoft examples from this year and last year I didn't bother with Forza because it's a racing game, it's just to be expected. You're also still going back 2 years.
Confirmed you trolling and posting BS.

You have not played Sod or any latest Forza games.


There are no MTX in Forza horizon 4 or Forza 7 just paid expansions
 
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State of decay had loot box? Go check again. Clearly you have not played SoD2. SoT has no MTX just paid DLC missions just like Spiderman.


Sea of thieves added purely optional cosmetic MTX which are earnable in game now after releasing tons of free gameplay content.

Tlou2 will have MTX in multiplayer just like Tlou 1, i can bet 100$ on it and no one will complain coz MTX will be all optiional cosmetic.



.
I googled State of Decay 2 and saw someone claiming they have weapon cache loot crates, ::shrugs::. If I'm wrong that's fine. I did play the game on gamepass but playing a game doesn't always mean being aware of MTX.

You use words like "purely optional comsetic MTX" like it makes it different from having MTX.

If TLOU2 has multiplayer MTX I'm sure people will complain, tbh, Jim Sterling certainly will. Though most of us come to TLOU2 for the campaign it'd still be annoying.

Forza 7 did launch with surprise crates that were meant to become earnable with real money and then they removed them from the game, that was my confusion on it because I played near release and remember those crates but it's nice of them they decided to stop doing it. A lot of people also believe Forza Horizon 4 was designed for MTX and they were scrapped due to outrage over the crates in 7.

 

FranXico

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Forza 7 did launch with surprise crates that were meant to become earnable with real money and then they removed them from the game, that was my confusion on it because I played near release and remember those crates but it's nice of them they decided to stop doing it. A lot of people also believe Forza Horizon 4 was designed for MTX and they were scrapped due to outrage over the crates in 7.
They removed them, and in typical Microsoft fashion, decided to start "fighting against lootboxes" after the massive backlash back then.
I recommend a look at this video for an idea of how far it was pushed back then:

But let's pretend Microsoft has never done those things in the past. All that matters is who pushed MTX most recently. ;)

And yes, Uncharted 4 MP MTX are pretty bad:

Expect TloU2 MP to be more of the broken progression same. IMHO, if you're buying ND games for MP, you're doing it wrong.
 
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They removed them, and decided to start "fighting against lootboxes" after the massive backlash back then.
I recommend a look at this video for an idea of how far it was pushed back then:

But let's pretend Microsoft has never done those things in the past. All that matters is who pushed MTX most recently. ;)
It's weird the places this argument keeps going, isn't it? No one can stay on the actual topic about normalizing them. Even after we link to articles showing Microsoft had the idea for them prior to the launch of 360 and even designed their point system so people would be more likely to buy MTX it's still like "well what about that Sony game 2 years ago". I think Microsoft have been doing good with Phil Spencer to fix their image and become more pro-consumer, but I think people are acting like "okay, you've done enough, you can stop now" when for me I'd rather they kept trying. I want Scarlett to have a year 1 similar to 360's year 1 which gave me games like Call of Duty 2, Condemned: Criminal Origins, Burnout Revenge, Battlefield 2, Dead Rising, F.E.A.R. (important for me as I didn't have a gaming PC at the time), Gears of War and Call of Duty 3... few consoles have better launch years than 360 did and the next year was even better with Crackdown, EDF 2017, BioShock, Halo 3, Modern Warfare, Oblivion and Guitar Hero 3. Is it really being anti-microsoft to want them to be this good again?
 

Three

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But Forza also hasn't had them since FH3 in 2016, so it's more disqualified by "not having them" than "being a racing game". I don't just expect them in racing games either.
Incorrect, Forza 7 had them and that released late 2017. It even had lootboxes with consumables. They were removed near 2019 near FH4 launch.
 
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TheAdmiester

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Incorrect, Forza 7 had them and that released late 2017. It even had lootboxes with consumables. They were removed near 2019 near FH4 launch.
I'm 99% sure FM7 never had them. They were planned post-release then cancelled when the loot boxes were removed.
 
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I'm 99% sure FM7 never had them. They were planned post-release then cancelled when the loot boxes were removed.

To be fair it sounds like they never charged money for them but they were very unpopular with the community all the same as they expected the game was going to eventually charge money and simply began not doing so to seem like the good guys, like Battlefront 2 and BLOPS IIII did. They also for a time offered actual advantages in game like whole cars.

 

TheAdmiester

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To be fair it sounds like they never charged money for them but they were very unpopular with the community all the same as they expected the game was going to eventually charge money and simply began not doing so to seem like the good guys, like Battlefront 2 and BLOPS IIII did. They also for a time offered actual advantages in game like whole cars.

While that's true, it is also worth noting that there were no cars whatsoever that were exclusive to the loot boxes. Everything that could be won could also be bought with in-game currency, akin to the level up prize spins from the other games in the series.
 

RevenantX

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I googled State of Decay 2 and saw someone claiming they have weapon cache loot crates, ::shrugs::. If I'm wrong that's fine. I did play the game on gamepass but playing a game doesn't always mean being aware of MTX.

You use words like "purely optional comsetic MTX" like it makes it different from having MTX.

If TLOU2 has multiplayer MTX I'm sure people will complain, tbh, Jim Sterling certainly will. Though most of us come to TLOU2 for the campaign it'd still be annoying.

Forza 7 did launch with surprise crates that were meant to become earnable with real money and then they removed them from the game, that was my confusion on it because I played near release and remember those crates but it's nice of them they decided to stop doing it. A lot of people also believe Forza Horizon 4 was designed for MTX and they were scrapped due to outrage over the crates in 7.

Prize crates are earnable in game and are not paid boxes. How about you play game instead of posting information but googling.


Prize crates which they removed were earnable in game with ingame currency as well and that they removed from game.
 
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RevenantX

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Incorrect, Forza 7 had them and that released late 2017. It even had lootboxes with consumables. They were removed near 2019 near FH4 launch.
People think prize crates are paid lootboxes but they are NOT.


Prize crates which they removed were earnable in game with ingame currency as well and that they removed from game.
 
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Three

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I'm 99% sure FM7 never had them. They were planned post-release then cancelled when the loot boxes were removed.
The lootboxes were there but it was the car tokens that were planned and cancelled

Car Tokens (T or TK), also simply known as Tokens, are a secondary currency of the Forza Motorsport series first introduced in Forza Motorsport 4. They can only be exchanged with real-life currencies (formely with Microsoft Points) and can only be used for vehicle-related purchases.
They cancelled these tokens but had the lootbox system still. On a related note they also "cancelled" the planned microtransactions in Sea of thieves in 2018 then just a month ago reintroduced them quietly.
 
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Prize crates are earnable in game and are not paid boxes. How about you play game instead of posting information but googling.


Prize crates which they removed were earnable in game with ingame currency as well and that they removed from game.
You're not even disputing what I said, do you read posts properly?
 

TheAdmiester

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The lootboxes were there but it was the car tokens that were planned and cancelled



They cancelled these tokens but had the lootbox system still. On a related note they also "cancelled" the planned microtransactions in Sea of thieves in 2018 then just a month ago reintroduced them quietly.
I'm not sure if one of us is a bit mixed up here but it's the tokens I was talking about, not the loot boxes. The guy I was originally responding to was referring to microtransactions in Sony vs MS exclusives.
 

Panajev2001a

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then just a month ago reintroduced them quietly.
... because they wanted to get the good guy PR early on and know they are the underdog people allow to bend the rules more without being called out for it.
 
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Not sure where you're taking this other than ' leave MS alone, sony too' but if you followed the conversation and my reply you were talking about launch games and I mentioned loot boxes specifically.
Those games were not launch nor do they have lootboxes. Try reading back in the reply chain.
You are asking to ignore all Sony titles and then try to push that MS did it first. If I give you examples of Sony doing it, you act like it's a crime. Killzone Shadowfall was a launch game and had more impact then Ryse, happy now(you are probably not because it does not push your narrative).
 
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You are asking to ignore all Sony titles and then try to push that MS did it first. If I give you examples of Sony doing it, you act like it's a crime. Killzone Shadowfall was a launch game and had more impact then Ryse, happy now(you are probably not because it does not push your narrative).
Killzone Shadow Fall bombed so hard we haven't had a Killzone game since. MS did do it first, this is provable, we've linked article about it, it was literally their idea. Giving examples of Sony doing it is ignoring the actual argument about normalization and it also ignores what Sterling actually said, which was that the majority of Sony exclusives don't have them. Also, when we talk where they began we're not talking this gen so Shadow Fall vs Ryse is a moot argument, we're talking the Xbox 360 which had them within its first year.
 

Three

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You are asking to ignore all Sony titles and then try to push that MS did it first. If I give you examples of Sony doing it, you act like it's a crime. Killzone Shadowfall was a launch game and had more impact then Ryse, happy now(you are probably not because it does not push your narrative).
I'm not asking you to ignore anything. You're just trying to deflect to the usual 'Sony too' whenever MS does some questionable shit you try to defend, It's the definition of whataboutism. it's like we're back in 2013 where MS again tried some shit for publishers and didn't get away with it.

And to your point It wasn't just Ryse was it? Get a load of what project spark had for example:

In previous versions of Project Spark, players were allotted 40 minutes of free Spark Time every day. Spark Time, despite its perky name, was limiting: you could only play user-made levels built with paid content you hadn't purchased or features unlocked above your current level for 40 minutes each day. If you wanted to play more, you could use in-game credits or pay real world cash for tokens to buy more Spark Time.
Pay to play the game you've bought because we charged some other shmuck for MTXs.

Forza 5 another launch game with Forza tokens and MTXs up the wazoo.

Then things like Gears and Halo started coming out, again lootbox MTXs with consumables. So go ahead do your 'Sony too' but I will still question how you tried to say Killzone shadowfall had more of an impact than this shit. Especially since KZSF only got its MTX a year later when almost nobody was playing it.
 
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RevenantX

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Microtransction are not bad if implemented properly without affecting gameplay loop. If they are optional and earnable in game plus game is giving me free DLC content then I'm fine with it.

I bought skins Ovewatch after spending 100 hours in mp coz i enjoyed the game so much. It didn't effect gameplay or gave me any advantage.

Gears 5 offers same microtransction. I rather pay few dollars for a skin than 50$ for season pass for DLC content.


Microtransctions are bad if implemented like Shadow of War and Battlefront 2
 

MilkyJoe

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The death of video games is going to be all these boring walkie talkies that the rantallions at Reeeeeecetera wank off over, making the games companies think that's what people want.
 
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Killzone Shadow Fall bombed so hard we haven't had a Killzone game since. MS did do it first, this is provable, we've linked article about it, it was literally their idea. Giving examples of Sony doing it is ignoring the actual argument about normalization and it also ignores what Sterling actually said, which was that the majority of Sony exclusives don't have them. Also, when we talk where they began we're not talking this gen so Shadow Fall vs Ryse is a moot argument, we're talking the Xbox 360 which had them within its first year.
You sure about that

Just so you know, Last of Us was a PS3 title with MTX.
 
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I'm not asking you to ignore anything. You're just trying to deflect to the usual 'Sony too' whenever MS does some questionable shit you try to defend, It's the definition of whataboutism. it's like we're back in 2013 where MS again tried some shit for publishers and didn't get away with it.

And to your point It wasn't just Ryse was it? Get a load of what project spark had for example:



Pay to play the game you've bought because we charged some other shmuck for MTXs.

Forza 5 another launch game with Forza tokens and MTXs up the wazoo.

Then things like Gears and Halo started coming out, again lootbox MTXs with consumables. So go ahead do your 'Sony too' but I will still question how you tried to say Killzone shadowfall had more of an impact than this shit. Especially since KZSF only got its MTX a year later when almost nobody was playing it.
But you are trying to paint Sony as innocent and act like only Microsoft did it. If we are gonna talk about Forza Motorsport 5, why ignore Gran Turismo 6 ?
Also, Forza Motorsport 7 removed its intended MTX and Forza Horizon 4 does not have any. But Gran Turismo Sport added them
 
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FranXico

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Also, Forza Motorsport 7 removed its intended MTX and Forza Horizon 4 does not have any. But Gran Turismo Sport added them
As bad enough as the MTX in GTS are, they are not lootboxes. They are purchaseable cars (that you can also grind for in-game). Not exactly comparable to FM7 planned lootboxes.
 

Three

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But you are trying to paint Sony as innocent and act like only Microsoft did it. If we are gonna talk about Forza Motorsport 5, why ignore Gran Turismo 6 ?
Also, Forza Motorsport 7 removed its intended MTX and Forza Horizon 4 does not have any. But Gran Turismo Sport added them
No I'm not painting them as anything but you are moving goal posts and the topic of the discussion at every opportunity to do that for MS.

Because not only wasn't GT Sport a launch game but it had and has no loot box crap. The MTX it did get were again year(s) after release of the game even. So how could you say at PS4 launch? That would be utter bollocks.
 
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You sure about that

Just so you know, Last of Us was a PS3 title with MTX.
"Microsoft had previously offered up the idea of microtransactions in early 2005, as a feature of the new Xbox Live Marketplace prior to the launch of the Xbox 360. The platform holder played microtransactions up as a new revenue stream for publishers and developers. At the same time, Microsoft called it a boon for players, who didn't have to spend $5, $10, or $20 for bundles of content they didn't want. Instead, they could directly buy what they wanted for $1 to $5.

"Generally if you do anything less than $5, you end up eating up the bulk of that $5 in transaction fees," said Xbox Live general manager Cam Ferroni told Reuters at the time. "At the heart of it'll be a points-like system where you buy points and then use those points to make purchases."

"Not only do you have to sweep away the distinction between virtual and real, you have to stop looking at video games as a toy and start looking at them as an entertainment service," Synthetic Worlds author and Indiana University professor Edward Castronova said in the article. This is one of the earlier mentions of the concept of games-as-a-service.

Microsoft itself offered a winter-themed outfit for Kameo: Elements of Power for $2.50, alongside new maps for Perfect Dark Zero and new cars for Project Gotham Racing 3. None of these early microtransactions took off in a major way, but it was all about Microsoft showing a proof of concept to other publishers."

 
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CurryPanda

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So they obviously have a relationship with MS PR. Cheers for posting that.
They have to suck dick of a lot of companies to get the funds to make their garbage site stay afloat.
 
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"Microsoft had previously offered up the idea of microtransactions in early 2005, as a feature of the new Xbox Live Marketplace prior to the launch of the Xbox 360. The platform holder played microtransactions up as a new revenue stream for publishers and developers. At the same time, Microsoft called it a boon for players, who didn't have to spend $5, $10, or $20 for bundles of content they didn't want. Instead, they could directly buy what they wanted for $1 to $5.

"Generally if you do anything less than $5, you end up eating up the bulk of that $5 in transaction fees," said Xbox Live general manager Cam Ferroni told Reuters at the time. "At the heart of it'll be a points-like system where you buy points and then use those points to make purchases."

"Not only do you have to sweep away the distinction between virtual and real, you have to stop looking at video games as a toy and start looking at them as an entertainment service," Synthetic Worlds author and Indiana University professor Edward Castronova said in the article. This is one of the earlier mentions of the concept of games-as-a-service.

Microsoft itself offered a winter-themed outfit for Kameo: Elements of Power for $2.50, alongside new maps for Perfect Dark Zero and new cars for Project Gotham Racing 3. None of these early microtransactions took off in a major way, but it was all about Microsoft showing a proof of concept to other publishers."

The definition of MTX now and in 2006 is very different. No one now calls map packs, dlc outfits, car packs as MTX, rather they are simply called 'DLC'.
What you mean by MTX today are ingame content offered in micro-payments, sometimes pay to win or sometimes just cosmetic. This was started in free to play mobile games and no way did Microsoft had any hand in inspiring free to play business models in smartphones. It was Valve and Rockstar who then pushed it into PC/Consoles.
And before you start, Dreamcast was the first console to adopt DLC in video games.
 
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The definition of MTX now and in 2006 is very different. No one now calls map packs, dlc outfits, car packs as MTX, rather they are simply called 'DLC'.
What you mean by MTX today are ingame content offered in micro-payments, sometimes pay to win or sometimes just cosmetic. This was started in free to play mobile games and no way did Microsoft had any hand in inspiring free to play business models in smartphones. It was Valve and Rockstar who then pushed it into PC/Consoles.
And before you start, Dreamcast was the first console to adopt DLC in video games.
"Microsoft had previously offered up the idea of microtransactions in early 2005, as a feature of the new Xbox Live Marketplace prior to the launch of the Xbox 360. The platform holder played microtransactions up as a new revenue stream for publishers and developers. At the same time, Microsoft called it a boon for players, who didn't have to spend $5, $10, or $20 for bundles of content they didn't want. Instead, they could directly buy what they wanted for $1 to $5.

"Generally if you do anything less than $5, you end up eating up the bulk of that $5 in transaction fees," said Xbox Live general manager Cam Ferroni told Reuters at the time. "At the heart of it'll be a points-like system where you buy points and then use those points to make purchases."

"Not only do you have to sweep away the distinction between virtual and real, you have to stop looking at video games as a toy and start looking at them as an entertainment service," Synthetic Worlds author and Indiana University professor Edward Castronova said in the article. This is one of the earlier mentions of the concept of games-as-a-service.

Microsoft itself offered a winter-themed outfit for Kameo: Elements of Power for $2.50, alongside new maps for Perfect Dark Zero and new cars for Project Gotham Racing 3. None of these early microtransactions took off in a major way, but it was all about Microsoft showing a proof of concept to other publishers."

 
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"Microsoft had previously offered up the idea of microtransactions in early 2005, as a feature of the new Xbox Live Marketplace prior to the launch of the Xbox 360. The platform holder played microtransactions up as a new revenue stream for publishers and developers. At the same time, Microsoft called it a boon for players, who didn't have to spend $5, $10, or $20 for bundles of content they didn't want. Instead, they could directly buy what they wanted for $1 to $5.

"Generally if you do anything less than $5, you end up eating up the bulk of that $5 in transaction fees," said Xbox Live general manager Cam Ferroni told Reuters at the time. "At the heart of it'll be a points-like system where you buy points and then use those points to make purchases."

"Not only do you have to sweep away the distinction between virtual and real, you have to stop looking at video games as a toy and start looking at them as an entertainment service," Synthetic Worlds author and Indiana University professor Edward Castronova said in the article. This is one of the earlier mentions of the concept of games-as-a-service.

Microsoft itself offered a winter-themed outfit for Kameo: Elements of Power for $2.50, alongside new maps for Perfect Dark Zero and new cars for Project Gotham Racing 3. None of these early microtransactions took off in a major way, but it was all about Microsoft showing a proof of concept to other publishers."

So, you just ignored my post and repoted your own.
 
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Which never happens and it's not realistic to think it could.

They have to design the gameplay to push you to spend.
I will say in Halo 5's defense that microtransactions were specifically intended for warzone which is completely separate from the traditional halo playlists. So btb, slayer, etc were not affected by anything other than cosmetics. So at the very least I'm glad 343 kept everything separated. And i was fine with unlocking all the warzone extras in game without spending money.
 
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