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[Melchiah]

You are right. I noticed too throughout the game that the fireflies were idiots and by the end it was obvious she was 99% going to die in vain anyway. But I always thought that was intended, and what I could see as a player Joel could see too. I thought the worthlessness of the fireflies went into Joel's decision to get her out of there. It was a selfish thing he did too but it wasn't the only reason. At least that's how I interpreted it.

In the second one and now in the remake, they changed the operating room not look like a filthy pigsty anymore. It makes sense to want to change for it all to make sense but I can't just suddenly unsee all that anymore. I am not buying that there was any merit to what they were trying to do.

Like I was discussing in my reply above, they made the operating room and the attire cleaner to give more legitimacy to the surgery that was stopped. In the original it all looked filthy and the fireflies were made to look like idiots. Surgical instruments sitting next to dusty shelves under moldy walls. A brain surgery patient laying directly on top of dirty leather without any sterile barrier. I know she wasn't supposed to survive that procedure but that is way too dirty to even extract any tissue.

Not to mention, that the sequel conveniently forgets the power struggle within Fireflies, which pushed Marlene to go with the operation, and how they themselves questioned if they could produce a vaccine. Now, after the retcon, even Joel somehow forgot the existence of those audio tapes and logs, and never brought them up when Ellie confronted him about what happened there.

As for the cycle of revenge and its repercussions, it was an utterly hypocritical take that Abby could have her revenge no matter what, and get a happy ending with Lev and the remaining Fireflies, but somehow it was wrong or worse for Ellie to seek the same justice, and she had to take punishment for it.

 

[DForce]

What I dislike about the story of TLOU2 is that they made it about religious and political parties and left zombies as a background element. The entirety of the first part was about surviving a zombie apocalypse and trying to find a cure, but then it turned into who has the best sect? Why?

It’s like Jurassic World Dominion. Dinosaurs now roam our planet freely but they focus the entire movie on giant locusts?! Who think these stuff?

Why diverge the entire premise to something so pathetic?

The story of the first game was about Joel and Ellie's relationship.

In the second game, you have two different stories. Ellie wanted revenge and Abby wanted redemption. In both games, the cure was in fact part of the story.

During Ellie's story, all hope seemed lost. The fireflies were no more and Joel killed the one man who could make a vaccine. However, in Abby's story, we find out that there is still hope for mankind as they find the Fireflies on Catalina Island.

If they went entirely away from the cure or infected, then there would be no reason to have Abby travel all the way to California to find the Fireflies. At the end of The Last of Us Part II, she is the only one who knows about Ellie and the Fireflies.

 

[GooseMan69]

Not to mention, that the sequel conveniently forgets the power struggle within Fireflies, which pushed Marlene to go with the operation, and how they themselves questioned if they could produce a vaccine. Now, after the retcon, even Joel somehow forgot the existence of those audio tapes and logs, and never brought them up when Ellie confronted him about what happened there.

As for the cycle of revenge and its repercussions, it was an utterly hypocritical take that Abby could have her revenge no matter what, and get a happy ending with Lev and the remaining Fireflies, but somehow it was wrong or worse for Ellie to seek the same justice, and she had to take punishment for it.

Lol Abby’s revenge tour gets everyone killed. Literally all of her friends from the Salt Lake crew get rekt, as a direct result of her actions. It’s crazy to act like she just got away with it.

 

[Fart Knight]

 

[Pomizead]

It was certainly one of the strangest choices from part 1 to 2. And shockingly few people, especially on the perpetually offended side cared even slightly. (he was black in part 1, retconned to white in part 2) And yes I did notice, I instantly thought "Uh, the doctor from the first game most definitely did not look like this?" I doubt they'll advertise this part about the re-remake of part 1 though.

He was not black. It was rando, bad texture dirty post apocalyptic npc. His skin color is not too different from Joel too. That's just how first game looked.
I love tlou2 and I think it's really petty and idiotic that people still go on about it. Haters never even played the damn game

Maybe it was a bad texture but Abby was black in some early concept arts:

 

[Tomi]

Perfection!

 

[Lord Panda]

Lol Abby’s revenge tour gets everyone killed. Literally all of her friends from the Salt Lake crew get rekt, as a direct result of her actions. It’s crazy to act like she just got away with it.

Not only that, but Abby herself didn’t really get a ‘happy ending’. She was freaking wrecked and broken at the end. Who knows what torture her and Lev endured before being strung up at the end like that.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Maybe it was a bad texture but Abby was black in some early concept arts:

Holy shit...i just clicked on that subredit...what did i just walk into? LMAO

It's like Naughty Dog's hate club.

 

[Melchiah]

Lol Abby’s revenge tour gets everyone killed. Literally all of her friends from the Salt Lake crew get rekt, as a direct result of her actions. It’s crazy to act like she just got away with it.

Talk about pointing the obvious. Both of them lost their closed ones, but only one got her revenge and a happy ending, and wasn't villainized for seeking retribution at all costs. It's somewhat funny, that a game like this is so fixated on showing there are "very fine people on both sides".

 

[Slothbeing1209]

Holy shit...i just clicked on that subredit...what did i just walk into? LMAO

It's like Naughty Dog's hate club.

The most toxic gaming subreddit you can find lol.
They almost took down Girlfriend Review channel just because they like Tlou part 2
I bet you can find some people here on that sub.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

The most toxic gaming subreddit you can find lol.
They almost took down Girlfriend Review channel.
I bet you can find some people here on that sub.

Oh that's this subreddit?
I thought it was a hate subreddit...not the actual main TLOU2 subreddit. What a cesspool.

The video where that channel unmasked that guy making those threats was glorious though.

 

[Melchiah]

Not only that, but Abby herself didn’t really get a ‘happy ending’. She was freaking wrecked and broken at the end. Who knows what torture her and Lev endured before being strung up at the end like that.

Ellie had a PTSD, and lost everyone including Dinah. Abby still had Lev, and the company of remaining Fireflies. Both of them were wrecked, but only one got retribution and redemption. Somehow the scales don't seem even.

 

[nominedomine]

You are right. I noticed too throughout the game that the fireflies were idiots and by the end it was obvious she was 99% going to die in vain anyway. But I always thought that was intended, and what I could see as a player Joel could see too. I thought the worthlessness of the fireflies went into Joel's decision to get her out of there. It was a selfish thing he did too but it wasn't the only reason. At least that's how I interpreted it.

In the second one and now in the remake, they changed the operating room not look like a filthy pigsty anymore. It makes sense to want to change for it all to make sense but I can't just suddenly unsee all that anymore. I am not buying that there was any merit to what they were trying to do.

Like I was discussing in my reply above, they made the operating room and the attire cleaner to give more legitimacy to the surgery that was stopped. In the original it all looked filthy and the fireflies were made to look like idiots. Surgical instruments sitting next to dusty shelves under moldy walls. A brain surgery patient laying directly on top of dirty leather without any sterile barrier. I know she wasn't supposed to survive that procedure but that is way too dirty to even extract any tissue.

It's pretty clear by the way the game ends and by the logs etc they were trying to make the idea of the Fireflies creating a vaccine a real possibility but I think the art/environment team didn't get the memo.

It would've had a completely different feeling if we had showed up in a legit place that looked like a real facility capable of developing something (like what we see in TLoU Part 2). All we seen in the first one are countless goons in an abandoned hospital and a few dirty doctors.

I still would've easily killed them all because I don't even remember why they were in such a rush that they couldn't let Ellie wake up.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Like I was discussing in my reply above, they made the operating room and the attire cleaner to give more legitimacy to the surgery that was stopped. In the original it all looked filthy and the fireflies were made to look like idiots. Surgical instruments sitting next to dusty shelves under moldy walls. A brain surgery patient laying directly on top of dirty leather without any sterile barrier. I know she wasn't supposed to survive that procedure but that is way too dirty to even extract any tissue.

Well, in this case there's an argument to be made about the character of the Fireflies doing the operation, that they didn't care about any hygiene since the patient was going to die anyway. Either way, it's a bad look for the FFs.

 

[nominedomine]

Somehow the scales don't seem even.

Sometimes that's how it is.

I think that's one of the biggest things ND got right, some gamers can't deal with loss or with not getting what they want (and that makes a lot of sense since most games are just obvious power fantasies where you are in complete control).

By the end of TLoU2 you had killed countless friends of Abby, including a pregnant women and people that didn't directly help in the death of Joel, Abby had spared your life multiple times at that point, she had been completely destroyed, tortured/enslaved, etc. The least believable thing is that at that point Ellie still wanted her dumb fight.

 

[Ulysses 31]

The least believable thing is that at that point Ellie still wanted her dumb fight.

While wielding a knife no less...

 

[alabtrosMyster]

To be honest the way the Fireflies in the first game looked so unsuited to be developing a vaccine played a big part in how there was pretty much no dilemma for me. Even after reading the logs it just didn't seem believable that they had any chance at developing anything and they just came off as a bunch of clowns. To me it was one of the most obvious problems with the original game and it's not surprising that they are trying to fix it.

yup, but you are supposed to believe that the outcome is guaranteed... the thing is that the certainty and willingness to kill "for science" with such moral certainty reminds me more of unit 731 from ww II more than anything else.

Look the topic for disturbing images.

Doubling-down on the worst narrative decision in TLOU2.

The problem for me was the level of certainty that everyone has in the outcome of the operation on Ellie (we will take the sample and create a magic vaccine and everybody will be saved ).

Obviously, you need this to make Joel seem bad/stupid, but in reality his lack of trust for the fireflies is warranted and his doubts on the outcome are reasonable.


It does not mean that Abby would not have wanted revenge, but the fight with Ellie around what he did does not make sense.

 

[nominedomine]

yup, but you are supposed to believe that the outcome is guaranteed... the thing is that the certainty and willingness to kill "for science" with such moral certainty reminds me more of unit 731 from ww II more than anything else.

Look the topic for disturbing images.

The problem for me was the level of certainty that everyone has in the outcome of the operation on Ellie (we will take the sample and create a magic vaccine and everybody will be saved ).

Obviously, you need this to make Joel seem bad/stupid, but in reality his lack of trust for the fireflies is warranted and his doubts on the outcome are reasonable.

Why were them in such a rush btw? I don't even remember at this point, it always seemed weird and too convenient to set up the ending.

Fireflies were also dumb as fuck, Marlene telling the truth to Joel is a bigger plot hole than anything that happens in Part 2.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

Doubling-down on the worst narrative decision in TLOU2.

*Sigh*

What makes this the worst narrative decision? Seems completely plausible and reasonable.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

Why were them in such a rush btw? I don't even remember at this point, it always seemed weird and too convenient to set up the ending.

Why wouldn't they be in a rush to finally have a working vaccine of a world ending infection? Come on its been 20 years, and they finally have the alleged puzzle piece. Nothing convenient or weird about finding something you've been obsessively looking for.

 

[nominedomine]

Why wouldn't they be in a rush to finally have a working vaccine of a world ending infection? Come on its been 20 years, and they finally have the alleged puzzle piece. Nothing convenient or weird about finding something you've been obsessively looking for.

That's it? That's the explanation? If anything waiting all that time should've made them extra cautious.

"Let's just kill her immediately, it's the only way! We just need to make sure we tell that unconscious criminal/murderer that spent months with her what we are going to do", come one now...

Then people have an issue that Joel helped Abby, that's a lot more believable and less convenient than the ending of TLoU Part I.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

That's it? That's the explanation? If anything waiting all that time should've made them extra cautious.

"Let's just kill her immediately, it's the only way! We just need to make sure we tell that unconscious criminal/murderer that spent months with her what we are going to do", come one now...

Then people have an issue that Joel helped Abby, that's a lot more believable and less convenient than the ending of TLoU Part I.

Extra cautious of what, killing Ellie or dealing with Joel? As far as they know Joel is just doing a drop since he's a criminal/murderer so no strings. If you say keep her alive longer, that seems mire cruel and even more chances losing the prize.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Extra cautious of what, killing Ellie or dealing with Joel? As far as they know Joel is just doing a drop since he's a criminal/murderer so no strings. If you say keep her alive longer, that seems mire cruel and even more chances losing the prize.

Or how about killing someone without informed consent? You don't see any issue with that? It speaks to the moral character of the Fireflies. Unless the point was to establishing the Fireflies as the villains in that situation (which I doubt).

Marlene seemed confident Ellie would've agreed with the operation so what would've been the harm of actually having Ellie say it and likely discourage Joel from intervening? There was nothing in the story that required the operation to happen when it did. Postponing it would've made the FF seem more humane.

 

[Games of Today]

Rumor has it you can see Abby's biceps over the Salt Lake City mountains, too.

Someone should mod her in as the World Serpent in GOW.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

What makes this the worst narrative decision? Seems completely plausible and reasonable.

Retconning the original game to supply the doctor as background for Abby was wholly unnecessary. The effect would have been exactly the same if her Father had been any of the fireflies killed in the ending sequence.

TBH, I would have much rather seen Abby connected more intimately to Marlene in the same way Ellie is than to have had the narrative team wave a wand to try and make the doctor a more meaningful character. But alas, here we are.

 

[nominedomine]

Or how about killing someone without informed consent? You don't see any issue with that? It speaks to the moral character of the Fireflies. Unless the point was to establishing the Fireflies as the villains in that situation (which I doubt).

Marlene seemed confident Ellie would've agreed with the operation so what would've been the harm of actually having Ellie say it and likely discourage Joel from intervening? There was nothing in the story that required the operation to happen when it did. Postponing it would've made the FF seem more humane.

The irony being that Ellie would do it willingly, they really didn't have any more reservations.

It would set up an even more interesting situation where Joel could be portraited as a much darker character. What if Ellie accepted it and Joel wasn't ok with it?

With the way they set it up in TLoU Part I, I was behind Joel 100% I never doubted for a second that killing the Fireflies was the right move (I even made sure to kill everyone I could, just in case that had any implication with them coming after me later lmao). For me they actually got it right in TLoU Part 2 where I was actually constantly struggling with the actions of the character I was controlling.

 

[Ulysses 31]

The irony being that Ellie would do it willingly, they really didn't have any more reservations.

It would set up an even more interesting situation where Joel could be portraited as a much darker character. What if Ellie accepted it and Joel wasn't ok with it?

I'm 50/50 on that at the point they get near the hospital, their bond had grown and Ellie talks about a future with Joel after all. At the beginning of the journey when she doesn't know Joel at all I can see her easily willing to die for the vaccine but after getting Joel see her as a daughter it would seem cruel of her that she'd abandon Joel at the drop of a hat for the vaccine.

You have to keep in mind when TLOU2 Ellie says she'd want to die in that hospital, that's after years of bitterness built up from Joel lying to her. She's not the same optimistic and hopeful Ellie from TLOU1 anymore.

 

[nominedomine]

I'm 50/50 on that at the point they get near the hospital, their bond had grown and Ellie talks about a future with Joel after all. At the beginning of the journey when she doesn't know Joel at all I can see her easily willing to die for the vaccine but after getting Joel see her as a daughter it would seem cruel of her that she'd abandon Joel at the drop of a hat for the vaccine.

You have to keep in mind when TLOU2 Ellie says she'd want to die in that hospital, that's after years of bitterness built up from Joel lying to her. She's not the same optimistic and hopeful Ellie from TLOU1 anymore.

Yea, I guess saying you would be willing to die and actually doing it are different things but my money would be on her doing it.

 

[Melchiah]

Sometimes that's how it is.

I think that's one of the biggest things ND got right, some gamers can't deal with loss or with not getting what they want (and that makes a lot of sense since most games are just obvious power fantasies where you are in complete control).

By the end of TLoU2 you had killed countless friends of Abby, including a pregnant women and people that didn't directly help in the death of Joel, Abby had spared your life multiple times at that point, she had been completely destroyed, tortured/enslaved, etc. The least believable thing is that at that point Ellie still wanted her dumb fight.

Yet Abby did what she did right after Joel saved her. Ellie getting her revenge at the beach would have been completely justified in that context. Abby getting tortured after torturing someone else was also well-deserved. You reap what you sow, but because reasons Abby still gets a happier ending than Ellie. That didn't sit right with me.

People whined about the lack of options in the end of TLOU, and were dismayed when Joel got away with it because it didn't sit right with them. Well, I would have wanted an option to leave Abby rot on the pole she was tied to. Now, that would have been a perfect ending, and more believable than the fight we got.

<3 <3 <3

 

[nominedomine]

Yet Abby did what she did right after Joel saved her. Ellie getting her revenge at the beach would have been completely justified in that context. Abby getting tortured after torturing someone else was also well-deserved. You reap what you sow, but because reasons Abby still gets a happier ending than Ellie. That didn't sit right with me.

People whined about the lack of options in the end of TLOU, and were dismayed when Joel got away with it because it didn't sit right with them. Well, I would have wanted an option to leave Abby rot on the pole she was tied to. Now, that would have been a perfect ending, and more believable than the fight we got.

<3 <3 <3

As expected, you don't get it at all. There is no revenge to be had when along the way you got your friends killed, destroyed your chance to have a family, you killed people that had nothing to do with it (including a pregnant women and her baby) and the person that you want to kill barely even wants to live.

Not to mention that you as a player saw that Abby got zero satisfaction for killing Joel, she only finds some semblance of relief when she moves on.

TLoU was never about giving player any options, where are you even getting that from? It explores the exact opposite mechanic, that's what the entire game is about.

The flaw in the game design isn't that your were not aligned with Ellie or Abby in the second, if anything it was how easy it was to be aligned with Joel in the first game (clearly not what they were going for).

 

[Ulysses 31]

Yet Abby did what she did right after Joel saved her. Ellie getting her revenge at the beach would have been completely justified in that context. Abby getting tortured after torturing someone else was also well-deserved. You reap what you sow, but because reasons Abby still gets a happier ending than Ellie. That didn't sit right with me.

People whined about the lack of options in the end of TLOU, and were dismayed when Joel got away with it because it didn't sit right with them. Well, I would have wanted an option to leave Abby rot on the pole she was tied to. Now, that would have been a perfect ending, and more believable than the fight we got.

<3 <3 <3

What rubbed me the wrong way about Abby is that Joel saving her didn't count for anything while later on she puts her life on the line for others who've saved her and she even turns on her faction she'd been part of for years for them. People will say she was that way because she wanted revenge and wasn't thinking straight, but she goes to bat to for people who may have been killing members of her faction.

 

[nominedomine]

What rubbed me the wrong way about Abby is that Joel saving her didn't count for anything while later on she puts her life on the line for others who've saved her and she even turns on her faction she'd been part of for years for them. People will say she was that way because she wanted revenge and wasn't thinking straight, but she goes to bat to for people who may have been killing members of her faction.

What if I told you she might have learned something when she finally ended up killing Joel and it nothing for her and only made things a lot worse... that's is... the story of the game.

Joel didn't beg, Joel didn't care about who she was and her story, he knew that something like that from his past was eventually going to catch up to him. She got nothing out of him, he even lived long enough for Ellie to start to forgive him.

 

[DForce]

What rubbed me the wrong way about Abby is that Joel saving her didn't count for anything while later on she puts her life on the line for others who've saved her and she even turns on her faction she'd been part of for years for them. People will say she was that way because she wanted revenge and wasn't thinking straight, but she goes to bat to for people who may have been killing members of her faction.

She suffered guilt after killing Joel.
She doesn't "turn" against her faction Her hand was forced because she went after Owen and wanted to help the people that saved her life.
She went wanted to protect the people saved her life.

 

[Ulysses 31]

What if I told you she might have learned something when she finally ended up killing Joel and it nothing for her and only made things a lot worse... that's is... the story of the game.

Not quite the whole story with the violence begets violence and prepare to dig 2 graves when seeking vengeance themes. We see that Abby is capable of reciprocating when she's helped, it just seems a little out of character to remain so ungrateful and still have a drawn out torture session with her savior with what we see of her later in the game.

She suffered guilt after killing Joel.

What scene(s) gives any indication of this though? It was clear to me she was concerned for the 2 scars but not what was done to Joel. Other WLFs seemed to agree that Joel got what he deserved and they were less emotionally invested.

She doesn't "turn" against her faction Her hand was forced because she went after Owen and wanted to help the people that saved her life.

You got a point there.

However she goes against Isaac when she's willing to take a bullet for the scar which is basically going against the WLF faction.

She went wanted to protect the people saved her life.

Indeed and I wish we'd had some of this when Joel (and Tommy) saved her.

 

[DForce]

What scene(s) gives any indication of this though? It was clear to me she was concerned for the 2 scars but not what was done to Joel. Other WLFs seemed to agree that Joel got what he deserved and they were less emotionally invested.

- She tells Yara and Lev multiple times that she's helping them because of guilt.
- Abby tells Owen to grow up. Owen replied by saying if he should find the people who killed his parents and torture them, something Abby clearly didn't like.
- Lev asked if Abby tortured anyone, something she was ashamed of.

She clearly has some guilt over her actions.

You got a point there.

However she goes against Isaac when she's willing to take a bullet for the scar which is basically going against the WLF faction.

However, she wouldn't do anything to the W.L.F if Isaac was more reasonable.

Abby would have to either run or face the consequences of disobeying Isaac's orders.

Abby is also not comfortable going against the W.L.F based on her initial reaction after killing one of them.

 

[remember_spinal]

Maybe it was a bad texture but Abby was black in some early concept arts:

Thank god she wasn’t black

 

[Hugare]

Yet Abby did what she did right after Joel saved her. Ellie getting her revenge at the beach would have been completely justified in that context. Abby getting tortured after torturing someone else was also well-deserved. You reap what you sow, but because reasons Abby still gets a happier ending than Ellie. That didn't sit right with me.

People whined about the lack of options in the end of TLOU, and were dismayed when Joel got away with it because it didn't sit right with them. Well, I would have wanted an option to leave Abby rot on the pole she was tied to. Now, that would have been a perfect ending, and more believable than the fight we got.


<3 <3 <3

"Yet Abby did what she did right after Joel saved her"

Ellie would have stopped if Abby or some of Abby's friends saved her life? Yeah, right

Joel killed her father, and she spent most of her life training to kill Joel. She wouldnt stop just because he saved her life.

"Abby getting tortured after torturing someone else was also well-deserved. You reap what you sow, but because reasons Abby still gets a happier ending than Ellie. That didn't sit right with me."

Ellie killed all of Abby's friends, including the man she loved and a pregnant woman.

Abby killed Joel, Jesse and hurt Tommy.

So if you go by the "you reap what you sow" rule, Ellie deserved to suffer way more than Abby, since she killed more people close to Abby than the other way around

And yet, at the end of the game, Abby only has Lev and a boat. Ellie will get Dina and JJ back (they just went back to Jackson), and will live a comfort life in Jackson.

If at the end of the game you still think that "Abby had it easy", you are still letting your emotions cloud your judgment.

 

[nominedomine]

Ellie will get Dina and JJ back (they just went back to Jackson), and will live a comfort life in Jackson.

 

[Ulysses 31]

- She tells Yara and Lev multiple times that she's helping them because of guilt.

I'm not sure it's guilt over what's done to Joel or guilt of being the top scar killer and maybe having killed scars who were less deserving of death(like Own and his tale of the old scar).

- Abby tells Owen to grow up. Owen replied by saying if he should find the people who killed his parents and torture them, something Abby clearly didn't like.

This is the strongest point indicating that she might feel some guilt for the torture but not for the killing though.

- Lev asked if Abby tortured anyone, something she was ashamed of.

Her being the top scar killer we can't rule out if it's only referring to Joel or if she also tortured scars in the WLF Scar war. She says she wouldn't mind a few minutes with some captured prisoners.

However, she wouldn't do anything to the W.L.F if Isaac was more reasonable.

Abby would have to either run or face the consequences of disobeying Isaac's orders.

Abby is also not comfortable going against the W.L.F based on her initial reaction after killing one of them.

Assuming Yara still would've shot Isaac, I doubt the WLF would've pumped her full of lead if she hadn't run. With Isaac gone their priority wouldn't have been how to deal with Abby and a runaway scar.

 

[Relique]

Well, in this case there's an argument to be made about the character of the Fireflies doing the operation, that they didn't care about any hygiene since the patient was going to die anyway. Either way, it's a bad look for the FFs.

I see what you are saying but I already addressed this. It was simply way too dirty even for brain tissue extraction. There is no way to avoid contamination in that environment. You could maybe argue the prep wasn't ready but it still doesn't add up.

 

[Exede]

Nah. Tlou2 just serves to show how stupid some haters are who have not played the game.
And those who finished tlou2 and wanted Abby dead by the end? bad, stubborn people lol.

There is nothing to be punished for tlou2.
The game is great and at least tried something fucking new and unique. Not the same story again.
And it's not even woke

Why do you play the woke card? I just hate the story and what they did to my man. Let me hate on it, i let you be woke. We can both move on now.

 

[rofif]

Why do you play the woke card? I just hate the story and what they did to my man. Let me hate on it, i let you be woke. We can both move on now.

Out of my whole statemen... you just read the last line ?
it's not only about that... And I don't care about wokeness lol

 

[DForce]

I'm not sure it's guilt over what's done to Joel or guilt of being the top scar killer and maybe having killed scars who were less deserving of death(like Own and his tale of the old scar).

There's nothing in the game that even suggest she has guilt over killing Scars. Abby still talks shit about them when she's with Lev and Yara.

This is the strongest point indicating that she might feel some guilt for the torture but not for the killing though.

Owen brought up getting revenge by finding the killers and torturing them. He didn't even finish and Abby cut him off.

Her being the top scar killer we can't rule out if it's only referring to Joel or if she also tortured scars in the WLF Scar war. She says she wouldn't mind a few minutes with some captured prisoners.

Again, there's no indication that she has guilt over killing Scars. At this point, you're just trying to find a reason to disagree with me.

Assuming Yara still would've shot Isaac, I doubt the WLF would've pumped her full of lead if she hadn't run. With Isaac gone their priority wouldn't have been how to deal with Abby and a runaway scar.

Yara shot Isaac because he was about to shoot Abby and Lev.

 

[Exede]

Out of my whole statemen... you just read the last line ?
it's not only about that... And I don't care about wokeness lol

What did they exactly new and never seen before? Rofl you wrote lol

 

[rofif]

What did they exactly new and never seen before? Rofl you wrote lol

A lot of stuff. Unexpected narrative not explored in games
Reversal of roles
not you straight sequel with more of the same.

They could've easily made another Joel Ellie adventure but they decided to explore other topics and ... try SOMETHING NEW, anything.
And thank god because all we get nowadays is the same fucking games. And when Death Stranding or tlou2 try anything different, they are punished. Single player games taking risks in 2022 should be admired

 

[Exede]

A lot of stuff. Unexpected narrative not explored in games
Reversal of roles
not you straight sequel with more of the same.

They could've easily made another Joel Ellie adventure but they decided to explore other topics and ... try SOMETHING NEW, anything.
And thank god because all we get nowadays is the same fucking games. And when Death Stranding or tlou2 try anything different, they are punished. Single player games taking risks in 2022 should be admired

I like Death Stranding. Hey prefences n stuff but i would have liked to play another Ellie and Joel adventure a lot.

 

[Ulysses 31]

There's nothing in the game that even suggest she has guilt over killing Scars. Abby still talks shit about them when she's with Lev and Yara.

To me, her being the top scar killer, it seems there might be some guilt over killing scars if she's so quickly willing to help scars who helped her.

Owen brought up getting revenge by finding the killers and torturing them. He didn't even finish and Abby cut him off.

Like I said, the strongest indication there might be guilt over the torture and not the killing.

Again, there's no indication that she has guilt over killing Scars. At this point, you're just trying to find a reason to disagree with me.

She's able to sympathize with some scars because they saved her so it's not a stretch she might have a new perspective on all the scars she killed before.

She might not regret killing scars but there still could be things she's done to scars that she's not proud of. She must have an ugly history with them, being the top scar killer and all.

Yara shot Isaac because he was about to shoot Abby and Lev.

And that's what I went with in my response. With Isaac out of the picture who was more rigid in his ways, the surround soldiers might've been more open to hear her out go along with her.

 

[DForce]

To me, her being the top scar killer, it seems there might be some guilt over killing scars if she's so quickly willing to help scars who helped her.

Like I said, the strongest indication there might be guilt over the torture and not the killing.

She's able to sympathize with some scars because they saved her so it's not a stretch she might have a new perspective on all the scars she killed before.

She might not regret killing scars but there still could be things she's done to scars that she's not proud of. She must have an ugly history with them, being the top scar killer and all.

And that's what I went with in my response. With Isaac out of the picture who was more rigid in his ways, the surround soldiers might've been more open to hear her out go along with her.

Neil already said it was about redemption over committing a horrible act, so no, you're completely wrong.

@52:40


Of course, you're going to deflect and say it doesn't count but that was the clear message from the game.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Neil already said it was about redemption over committing a horrible act, so no, you're completely wrong.

@52:40


Of course, you're going to deflect and say it doesn't count but that was the clear message from the game.

Ideally you shouldn't have to refer to outside sources to explain the game/movie except for maybe lore info, wouldn't you agree?

Assuming Neil's talking about how Joel dies then I didn't really pick up on Abby being very regretful of her actions near Jackson. She was mostly concerned for the scars because they saved her life, not because she feels she's making up for something in her past.

 

[yurinka]

Need kid Abby cameo please.

It's a preorder DLC, here you have a leaked footage

Spoiler

Maybe it was a bad texture but Abby was black in some early concept arts:

Probably this design was rejected because according to them she was too femenine/oversexualized and not trans friendly enough.