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The Pedophile Next Door
- Thread starter Messofanego
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SkeptiMism
Member
Can you explain that logic more please? I honestly don't understand. In my mother/gf's best friend comparison the person wouldn't do it because it just wouldn't be right no matter how you try to justify it. If the person did it, it would show heavy lack of empathy and care for the people in question.This comparison only works if the only reason they would never pursue that relationship is because it was illegal.
That seems like a strange logical leap to take.If they don't want help, we have to assume that they don't see anything wrong with their desires as long as they don't cross that legal line, and that's absurd.
For example, plenty of people with various mental problems, such as depression, often don't get help. Do they want help? Some really don't, despite seeing plenty of wrong in their mental condition. Others do, but still don't try to get it for various reasons.
Or as another example, sort of similar though, let's take a person who gets an urge to hit someone every now and then. The person might well realize that it's very problematic, but might not want help if he feels he can handle it.
In the case of pedophilia, it's particularly complex because of the nature of this matter and how quick people are to judge it, but you can not assume that someone not wanting to get help doesn't see anything wrong with their desires.
Might well be, but I think that still requires some sort of twisted mind to not realize how wrong you are when you think like that. Though of course, a person can grow up with a very twisted way of thinking sometimes due to multiple factors.I don't know if this has been talked about in here, but the whole act of "grooming", where pedophiles begin to feel like the child wants it, is probably a big factor in how they act. I know the whole "grooming" issue was big after the Jerry Sandusky thing. It's like the potential offender sets it up to where it goes from them offending, to the child being the offender because they "wanted it." That's probably the breaking point for them, in regards to controlling it.
It's not an easy subject though.
Probably very true. If that estimated 1% of men is anywhere close to truth, there are a lot of them out there, and we obviously don't hear about the vast majority of them. Of course, there are a lot of cases of child abuse we don't know of, but even so I think it's quite safe to say majority of the people with these desires never do anything about it, and probably never could even imagine doing it in reality.I'm willing to bet, however, that there are more people out there than we realize that get a rise out of younger generations. I just think for some people, it's much easier to not pay attention to said "attractive" quality.
I feel sympathy for pedophiles who have not abused children. Having to constantly resist your sexual urges must be torture. I hope they can get help.
I think, for so many people, the idea of being sexually attracted to children is foreign to them, and that's why it's so difficult to empathize.
I don't know, an awful lot of gaffers are extremely creepy.
I don't know, an awful lot of gaffers are extremely creepy.
This hints at another problem with this topic: anyone who shows even a modicum of empathy for pedophiles can be branded.
Why is he defending them? Maybe he's secretly a pedophile too! The topic is so emotionally loaded for some people that we can't have a rational discussion without the assumption of nefarious ulterior motives.
Messofanego
Banned
If some of the solutions in here were put forward, you'd have a hard time finding Pedophile before they actually did something.
Yeah, it's pretty backwards.
This hints at another problem with this topic: anyone who shows even a modicum of empathy for pedophiles can be branded.
Why is he defending them? Maybe he's secretly a pedophile too! The topic is so emotionally loaded for some people that we can't have a rational discussion without the assumption of nefarious ulterior motives.
This hints at putting words into my mouth.I wasn't talking about people expressing sympathy/empathy towards paedophiles, especially those that haven't acted upon their desires. Help should definitely be at hand for them.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
What about when we can identify what makes people pedo's to the point we can screen unborn kids?If some of the solutions in here were put forward, you'd have a hard time finding Pedophile before they actually did something.
What if you found out your unborn child would be a paedophile?
Again, pedophilia is a sexual attraction to prepubescent children under 13. That means none of the development associated with puberty.
and yet society has basically extended that definition to paint anyone with any attraction to someone under the legal age of consent as a pedo. The term itself has almost lost any meaning.
Girls are developing physically much earlier than they used to, so I don't think it unreasonable for a relatively large number of men to find under 18s physically and even sexually attractive. Purely from a physical appearance point of view. Yet to actually voice such an opinion would have you labelled a pedophile.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
What about when we can identify what makes people pedo's to the point we can screen unborn kids?
What if you found out your unborn child would be a paedophile?
then you're arguing eugenics
This hints at putting words into my mouth.I wasn't talking about people expressing sympathy/empathy towards paedophiles, especially those that haven't acted upon their desires. Help should definitely be at hand for them.
Sure, that's fine. I'm speaking more generally about the hostile atmosphere regarding this topic, and how difficult it can be to talk about. If it's difficult for some to simply express empathy, imagine how hard it would be to actually be a pedophile. As you note, there just isn't anywhere for them to go, no one to talk to, and anyone who breaches the topic is looked at with suspicion.
Messofanego
Banned
What about when we can identify what makes people pedo's to the point we can screen unborn kids?
What if you found out your unborn child would be a paedophile?
Not only is this a tangential response to that post, but also a pointless hypothetical since a pedophile wouldn't want to become a pedophile so the answer to that is obvious just like any other unwanted disorder that can debilitate a person's life. But in real life, you can't control those kind of chances.
Brian Griffin
Member
This post is so cold I had to put on a jacket. God damn dude.Like has been said at the beginning this is a difficult topic to discuss with the emotions attached to it.
I honestly feel like when a person is born like this, through no fault of their own, that's where I draw the line personally.
I fully understand no one would want to be like that, and the difference between empathy and condoning.
My opinion on paedophiles is a harsh one. I think there's no helping these people. No amount of therapy can guarantee they would never act on their urges. Like anyone in recovery or any similar situation where someones fighting their urges. No one's perfect and people will slip up and make mistakes.
The fallout of this is destroying an innocent child's life just because some genetic anomaly makes these people this way. It's an evil sick condition and taking the risk of hoping they won't isn't good enough.
I draw the line at paedophiles when it comes to people who should and can be helped. That's when a person should be wrote off entirely. That they are capable or have any likelihood of harming a child is enough for me to never feel empathy for them.
They can't be fixed like homosexuality cannot be "fixed". Difference is homosexuality doesn't need to be fixed. Pedo's should be incarcerated, why give them freedom just because they may not molest a child?
They have no place in society. So no idiot see how anyone could feel empathy for these "people".
This issue is quite simple. If you are anti-child molestation then you must support creating a more welcoming, empathetic society so pedophiles can feel safe coming forward with their condition before they hurt someone. How to help them is a debate of its own but if you don't think we should even be talking to them then you are supporting ideas that will only lead to more abuse of children.
cheekymunky
Banned
This post is so cold I had to put on a jacket. God damn dude.
This issue is quite simple. If you are anti-child molestation then you must support creating a more welcoming, empathetic society so pedophiles can feel safe coming forward with their condition before they hurt someone. How to help them is a debate of its own but if you don't think we should even be talking to them then you are supporting ideas that will only lead to more abuse of children.
Hell, they might even like it - isn't that right?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46518354&postcount=372
Kids have feelings, thoughts and opinions like everyone else and if an adult has sex with them that doesn't involve any violence or mental abuse their feelings about the experience might be neutral or even positive in some cases.
They should understand that it's not ok for adults to have sex with kids but if they don't actually feel like a victim then I don't see how it benefits them to be convinced that they are one. Something that society is so eager to do
freenudemacusers
Member
oh yes, that thread, where people were backpatting a pedophile who really saw nothing wrong with his attraction to kids, thought people were too protective of a child's ability to give consent, and his massive collection of '2d drawn stuff only i promise' child porn.Hell, they might even like it - isn't that right?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46518354&postcount=372
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
What in the actual fuck at the above. Yeah... I'm out of this thread
dead souls
Member
Hell, they might even like it - isn't that right?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46518354&postcount=372
Woah. I'm really quite sickened by the regularity at which pedophile sympathizing threads have been popping up on GAF lately.
Fucking gross.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Suicide and Chemical Castration.
Right.....
You know, you don't have to pretend to be an actual Nazi to make sure no one thinks your a pedo guys. The tough guy bullshit is really not necessary. Calm down.
For context, do read my posts following the one you quoted, they give a better view of what I think.
Have there been many studies on pedophiles? Are most of them only attracted to children, or is it more of a kink?
Some are attracted to only children, some to both adults and children. But the problem is that we know nothing.
We're so quick to go "ew what a disgusting monster" that we don't take the time to do extensive research and help these people.
Of course, I'm referring to those who want help and haven't acted upon their urges.
freenudemacusers
Member
well the problem is you have both boy-love 'don't want to hurt kids' types and westley allan dodd/ian watkins types, and given that the target of attraction is vulnerable by default, it's not something you can look at like hetero/homosexuality.Have there been many studies on pedophiles? Are most of them only attracted to children, or is it more of a kink?
and yet society has basically extended that definition to paint anyone with any attraction to someone under the legal age of consent as a pedo. The term itself has almost lost any meaning.
Girls are developing physically much earlier than they used to, so I don't think it unreasonable for a relatively large number of men to find under 18s physically and even sexually attractive. Purely from a physical appearance point of view. Yet to actually voice such an opinion would have you labelled a pedophile.
The term hasn't really lost its meaning.
That we bundle ephebophiles along with pedophiles isn't that bad. Both are attracted to people under the age of consent, end of story.
The only issue is for kids between 18 and, say, 21, where they can still have an attraction to girls under the age of consent, but that is not really the same thing as ephebophilia.
well the problem is you have both boy-love 'don't want to hurt kids' types and westley allan dodd/ian watkins types, and given that the target of attraction is vulnerable by default, it's not something you can look at like hetero/homosexuality.
Yeah. And while I can believe that the majority of pedophiles are not molesters, I doubt that many pedophiles have never watched CP or sexually harassed a child.
That doesn't mean that their condition is not tragic.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Have there been many studies on pedophiles? Are most of them only attracted to children, or is it more of a kink?
There's a range like the Kinsey Scale. I remember reading that pedophiles with an attraction to adults mostly stay out of trouble (of course that's impossible to verify 100%).
Messofanego
Banned
There is very little research because of the mandated reporting laws and fear of broaching the subject by having to deal directly with those kind of people, hence the willing for support networks to exist so that more can be understood. It's kind of broken down into either exclusive minor attraction or not where a pedophile can still be attracted to an age-appropriate adult. Without enough research, still don't know the ratio between those two camps.Have there been many studies on pedophiles? Are most of them only attracted to children, or is it more of a kink?
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
I thought this thread was going to be about the latest Bill Clinton rumor.
Are you actually serious?
I'd be happy to help out myself and would sleep like a baby afterwards.
Suicide and Chemical Castration.
Right.....
You know, you don't have to pretend to be an actual Nazi to make sure no one thinks your a pedo guys. The tough guy bullshit is really not necessary. Calm down.
There's no joking or insincerity in my post at all. If they were willing and it was legal, I'd thank them and go ahead with it.
Easton Dark
Member
I'd be happy to help out myself and would sleep like a baby afterwards.
There's no joking or insincerity in my post at all. If they were willing and it was legal, I'd thank them and go ahead with it.
You scare me far more than pedophelia ever could.
Please do not address sexuality with euthanasia.
Frankensteiner
Banned
You scare me far more than pedophelia ever could.
Please do not address sexuality with euthanasia.
How is pedophilia a sexuality? If I'm not mistaken, sexuality refers to what gender you're attracted to, not their age.
You wouldn't call being into men/women in their 40's it's own sexuality, would you?
Easton Dark
Member
How is pedophilia a sexuality? If I'm not mistaken, sexuality refers to what gender you're attracted to, not their age.
You wouldn't call being into men/women in their 40's it's own sexuality, would you?
Sexuality is a person's sexual nature. So being into people in their 40's would be part of someone's sexuality.
I'm guessing you're thinking about sexual orientation.
There's no way to get consent from an animal, and even if you could there's no way for the animal to confirm it at a later time. We really have to err on the side of a blanket no with animals too.Difference being with pedophilia compared to another sexuality (if it is one) is that they can't have relations with a child because they cannot consent at all. And what about bestiality? Where does that lie?
Frankensteiner
Banned
Sexuality is a person's sexual nature. So being into people in their 40's would be part of someone's sexuality.
I'm guessing you're thinking about sexual orientation.
OK got ya. But at the same time, while I'm not asking for castration and suicide, I'm not going to lie and act I have any sort of sympathy towards pedophiles. Active or not.
You didn't do anything? Good, it should stay that way. You're not getting a medal from me for not acting on urges you shouldn't have in the first place. Guess it sucks that you have them, but I'm not going to lose sleep over the "poor" people who want to molest kids but can't.
Aquamarine
Member
it's such a taboo, that even a vague mention...even a slight hint or suggestion gets you vilified and locked up or put on a sex offender list and stripped of a real life.
even if you would never dream of harming someone or contributing to the harm of someone.
i have a family member who had his life destroyed for getting caught with virtual (cartoon) child pornography. he didn't have a single "real" image of a child being exploited. just cartoons.
it's a horrible curse.
this is very true.
even if you would never dream of harming someone or contributing to the harm of someone.
i have a family member who had his life destroyed for getting caught with virtual (cartoon) child pornography. he didn't have a single "real" image of a child being exploited. just cartoons.
it's a horrible curse.
While I agree a discussion about how to move forward needs to happen, the while subject is just too laced with emotion for a lot of people and they simply aren't able to discuss this in a rational manner.
Politicians won't dare try to start a debate out of fear of losing their seat or papers labelling them as Paedo sympathizers, so we're essentially stuck.
this is very true.
Easton Dark
Member
OK got ya. But at the same time, while I'm not asking for castration and suicide, I'm not going to lie and act I have any sort of sympathy towards pedophiles. Active or not.
Your milder outlook is appreciated.
It really does worry me how violence and death is so often the response to the sexual crime against humanity© of the day.
freenudemacusers
Member
well we are talking about people who want to have sex with children and toddlers. the idea is fairly repulsive and revolting.Your milder outlook is appreciated.
It really does worry me how violence and death is so often the response to the sexual crime against humanity© of the day.
Frankensteiner
Banned
Your milder outlook is appreciated.
It really does worry me how violence and death is so often the response to the sexual crime against humanity© of the day.
To be fair, if you had a kid and they ended up getting molested you'd want to kill the person who did it. Probably not reasonable, but hardly a strange reaction.
What is it about this forum being right about how awful rape truly is, but then turns around to feel bad for the poor pedophiles?
I get it, not all posters are the same. But it is definitely weird to decide the other extreme case is not something to lose your shit over in a big forum when it comes to these threads.
The only issue is for kids between 18 and, say, 21, where they can still have an attraction to girls under the age of consent, but that is not really the same thing as ephebophilia.
I don't quite follow this logic. Does attraction suddenly change when you reach the age of 22? It seems to me that it just becomes more socially unacceptable rather than your attraction suddenly changes because the person is below the age of consent. The age of consent is an arbitrary thing. It is simply a line society has drawn to an age where they consider humans are responsible enough to make that decision. In Victorian times the age of consent was 13 in the UK for instance. Obviously the age of consent is not entirely a biological matter considering a child's hormones are all over the place when they reach their teenage years.
Now I am not condoning that adults look for relationships with children or young adults still in their adolescence, I think there are good reasons why that line exists. The kids may not be quite emotionally mature enough, or naive to the world around them, which makes them vulnerable. There is also the question of education and how the prospect of becoming pregnant at such an early age would have an effect on that. However, when we are talking about an age group of 15-19 we are talking of young adults or potentially reaching young adulthood. In terms of physical attraction, I don't think the human mind works like that. In terms of physical attraction it works more in terms how sexually developed their bodies are.
I see a distinction between an adult sexually abusing a child of the age of 8 for instance, and an adult having consensual sex with a person of the age of 15. In one sense the former is a pathological condition, where as the latter is not. It is not because of the reason I have given. The human mind doesn't really think in terms of arbitrary consent laws, it thinks in terms of sexual development of the individual. I don't think it helps conflating the two things as being the same.
Easton Dark
Member
well we are talking about people who want to have sex with children and toddlers. the idea is fairly repulsive and revolting.
I won't judge a person's entire worth on what they think about when they cum. That is incredibly unfair, because there's no way to actively choose what that is.
What is it about this forum being right about how awful rape truly is, but then turns around to feel bad for the poor pedophiles?
The element of choice is paramount.
Yes, I'd be mad if someone decided that getting off was more important than my child living free from harm. They chose to be a child molester. Pedophiles don't choose shit, and it's fucked up that they're treated like diseased rats.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I'd be happy to help out myself and would sleep like a baby afterwards.
There's no joking or insincerity in my post at all. If they were willing and it was legal, I'd thank them and go ahead with it.
you're extremely fucked up.
I'd be happy to help out myself and would sleep like a baby afterwards.
There's no joking or insincerity in my post at all. If they were willing and it was legal, I'd thank them and go ahead with it.
It's people like you, and society, that drove one of my oldest friends into suicide. He was a good and charitable man, would never hurt a fly. He even had a romantic relationship with a petite woman his age (23) that was very supportive of his issue and they planned to get married. He killed himself because of fear, the fear of society and the fear of harming his own future children. He went to every damn therapist in the state of Massachusetts as he could and most of them just called the police even though he was looking for help.
You people disgust me. These people, these human beings, are living in fear, many would never harm a child in their life, and many of them want help, real help. I am a victim of child molestation, I still have PTSD over it, but even I can sympathize with pedophiles who do their hardest to be functional members of society while society decided to hold a knife around their neck and will cut it at the slightest mention of their issue.
Here's the problem I have.
Perhaps I don't want potential pedophiles to be killed. I don't wish death upon anyone if they haven't done anything wrong.
However, when does a cultural or social norm encompass pedophilia?
When does a country's low age of consent make it okay for a forumer to talk about having sex with 12 year olds? If their law says it's okay, why should we ban or chastise that person?
You have to draw a line.
Perhaps I don't want potential pedophiles to be killed. I don't wish death upon anyone if they haven't done anything wrong.
However, when does a cultural or social norm encompass pedophilia?
When does a country's low age of consent make it okay for a forumer to talk about having sex with 12 year olds? If their law says it's okay, why should we ban or chastise that person?
You have to draw a line.
I don't quite follow this logic. Does attraction suddenly change when you reach the age of 22? It seems to me that it just becomes more socially unacceptable rather than your attraction suddenly changes because the person is below the age of consent. The age of consent is an arbitrary thing. It is simply a line society has drawn to an age where they consider humans are responsible enough to make that decision. In Victorian times the age of consent was 13 in the UK for instance. Obviously the age of consent is not entirely a biological matter considering a child's hormones are all over the place when they reach their teenage years.
Now I am not condoning that adults look for relationships with children or young adults still in their adolescence, I think there are good reasons why that line exists. The kids may not be quite emotionally mature enough, or naive to the world around them, which makes them vulnerable. There is also the question of education and how the prospect of becoming pregnant at such an early age would have an effect on that. However, when we are talking about an age group of 15-19 we are talking of young adults or potentially reaching young adulthood. In terms of physical attraction, I don't think the human mind works like that. In terms of physical attraction it works more in terms how sexually developed their bodies are.
I see a distinction between an adult sexually abusing a child of the age of 8 for instance, and an adult having consensual sex with a person of the age of 15. In one sense the former is a pathological condition, where as the latter is not. It is not because of the reason I have given. The human mind doesn't really think in terms of arbitrary consent laws, it thinks in terms of sexual development of the individual. I don't think it helps conflating the two things as being the same.
Logic is quite simple, adults should only have sex with other -consenting- adults.
Period.
There's a fringe case where a couple of minors who have had sex will run into trouble once the older one becomes an adult and that's why I mentioned the 18-21 thing, which is not even a hard rule. The older person should not suddenly become a rapist. But this exception in no case should be used to justify adults in general having sex with minors, outside of this case. Maybe you wish to make it a general exception for 18-19-20 year olds pairing up with minors above a certain age-of-consent, but even then there should be a hard cutoff age where you are not longer allowed to have sex with minors no matter what, 21 can be that point, or it can be less, or maaaaybe more but more than that sounds creepy.
My respects to him then.It's people like you, and society, that drove one of my oldest friends into suicide. He was a good and charitable man, would never hurt a fly. He even had a romantic relationship with a petite woman his age (23) that was very supportive of his issue and they planned to get married. He killed himself because of fear, the fear of society and the fear of harming his own kids. He went to every damn therapist in the state of Massachusetts as he could and most of them just called the police even though he was looking for help.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
It's people like you, and society, that drove one of my oldest friends into suicide. He was a good and charitable man, would never hurt a fly. He even had a romantic relationship with a petite woman his age (23) that was very supportive of his issue and they planned to get married. He killed himself because of fear, the fear of society and the fear of harming his own kids. He went to every damn therapist in the state of Massachusetts as he could and most of them just called the police even though he was looking for help.
You people disgust me. These people are living in fear, many would never harm a child in their life, and many of them want help, real help. I am a victim of child molestation, I still have PTSD over it, but even I can sympathize with pedophiles who do their hardest to be functional member of society while society decided to hold a knife around their neck and will cut it at the slightest mention of their issue.
Sorry to hear about your friend.
The bolded is pretty worrying for many reasons that extend to mental disorders beyond just pedophilia. It sets a bad precedent for people with ASPD or other disorders that involve "urges" before any were carried out. Apparently anonymous support groups are the only way to go, which is pretty fucked up.
My respects to him then.
Bro.
Aquamarine
Member
It's people like you, and society, that drove one of my oldest friends into suicide. He was a good and charitable man, would never hurt a fly. He even had a romantic relationship with a petite woman his age (23) that was very supportive of his issue and they planned to get married. He killed himself because of fear, the fear of society and the fear of harming his own kids. He went to every damn therapist in the state of Massachusetts as he could and most of them just called the police even though he was looking for help.
You people disgust me. These people are living in fear, many would never harm a child in their life, and many of them want help, real help. I am a victim of child molestation, I still have PTSD over it, but even I can sympathize with pedophiles who do their hardest to be functional member of society while society decided to hold a knife around their neck and will cut it at the slightest mention of their issue.
just one of many tragedies that have occurred with pedophiles who have never (and never plan to) hurt anyone.
my family member got fired and can't get a job because he's on the national sex offender registry for looking at cartoon images.
nobody in the family wants anything to do with him. he was banned from any future family events and his parents refuse to acknowledge his existence.
he's been on the streets, homeless.
........because he got caught looking at cartoon images.
the existence of pedophilia makes me angry. the pedophiles who do act on their urges and abuse innocent children make me angry. but this makes me angry as well.
My respects to him then.
I'm going to add this right now that he wasn't afraid of sexually harming them, as he was pretty happy with his soon-to-be wife and did his best to control his urges, but rather on how the world would treat them and his family because of his condition. The constant harassment from the police and child services would drive him insane and tear his family apart.
He doesn't need your "respect".
cosmicblizzard
Banned
My respects to him then.
You're telling a person that is/was devastated over the loss of a friend "props to him!"
That's pretty damn fucked up.
Logic is quite simple, adults should only have sex with other -consenting- adults.
Period.
There's a fringe case where a couple of minors who have had sex will run into trouble once the older one becomes an adult and that's why I mentioned the 18-21 thing, which is not even a hard rule. The older person should not suddenly become a rapist. But this exception in no case should be used to justify adults having sex with minors, outside of this case.
I'm not justifying adults having sex with children, as I already stated. I am saying there is a clear distinction between an adult having sex with a prepubescent child, lets say the child is 8, and an adult having consensual sex with a 15 year old child.
It's not about changing the consent laws, it is about conflating the two. Paedophilia is so heinous of a crime if acted upon because they are neither mentally or physiologically ready for sexual intercourse. A 15 year old child on the other hand is reaching young adulthood.
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