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The R word.
- Thread starter Ekdrm2d1
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Maaaan.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
I'm predicting an "The L Word" appreciation thread tomorrow.
Pokemaniac
Member
I don't particularly care about the word retard, but this post kinda bothers me. Autism is a completely different beast from IDD or whatever I'm supposed to call it now. Yes, low-functioning autism is related, but you're painting with a pretty wide brush there.
Chuckie
Member
I don't think this is how it happened.
So while indeed racist, he didn't think people with down-syndrome where descendants of people raped by the Mongolian Horde.
PipefishUK
Banned
I think it's because it's equating bad/stupid/lesser with a mentally handicapped person - implying they're no good and have nothing to give.
Where as cancer is just a shit thing that some people get. It's not implying people with cancer are no good - it's, if anything, implying that cancer is no good.
It bothers you? Clearly he's referring to autistic kids and people who need the help of specialists in the first place.
Shit like this makes me question why I even joined this forum.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
'Wigger' conversation, coming up in 3...2...1
8BitsAtATime
Member
I don't like using the word, I use the the saying Clown Shoes instead. Actually I think most words that people find offensive I've just substituted with Clown, Clown Shoes, or Ass Clown.......damn it!! What if actual Clowns get offended. Sorry to all the Juggalos and Clowns out there.
.....I'm lost..does it mean I should be respectful to everyone and not call them names and stop using words that could hurt someone. Probably. Idk I'm so conflicted
.....I'm lost..does it mean I should be respectful to everyone and not call them names and stop using words that could hurt someone. Probably. Idk I'm so conflicted
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
The argument I'm seeing is that it's offensive to compare a normal functioning person to someone that is developmentally disabled with the intentions of making it an insult. Which is fine. I'm not personally offended by that but the argument has merit.
The thing is, the choice of word literally doesn't matter if that's the case. It's the concept that's offensive.
Zomba13
Member
Yeah I know what you mean. When I don't like something I always say "that's black" or "that's hispanic". People look at me funny but then I explain that I don't mean it's black like the shade, but black like the people and then walk away satisfied.
Stigmatizing hurtful words is the first step towards stigmatizing hurtful concepts. It's about changing the public perception.
The problem with going down the "concept" line of thinking is now you have to explain to me how you can use that word without that baggage attached. I bet you can't.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
The word is hurtful because of how people choose to use it. Because of the concept I just described. The term itself was engineered to be as least offensive as possible. If people continue to use words in the way I just described then it doesn't make a single ioata of difference which word is used to fill in the blank. If people simply sub out retarded for an equivalent term then there was no progress made on that front.
Therefore, stigmatizing the word is ineffective in and of itself.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
As much as I hate the term toxic towards words, using retarded is toxic in casual conversations. Even though you dont mean it as a slur, you using it does give those who want to use it as a slur confidence in being able to use it as so. For a few years it looked like the word "faggot" could go either way as a word for assholes or for a slur, and the slur won. Language evolves and you gotta keep up with it.
satire or naw
Grinchy
Banned
Well, I don't feel bad.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
No, we should stop the root of the problem instead of just kicking the can down the road with feelgood word policing that doesn't actually change anything.
You have to drill through a tooth to get to the roots. Walk before you run. Let people know why a word is bad and what connotations it has before they stop making light of the mentally disabled.
Your solution is nothing. You want to keep the word, but magic away the background noise. Won't happen.
Liamario
Banned
Well they're not the same really are they? Autism is a very specific condition. Retard (slow) is a very general term that people use to describe something/someone as stupid. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that using the word 'stupid' is no less offensive than the word 'retard'.
Of course I would agree that it's wrong to call someone with a mental disability a retard.
waxer
Member
Working with people with mental disabilities makes me really dissapointed with human behaviour. The crap they take on the street from people sucks. Physical and verbal abuse is quite common if they dont realise someone working with them is around.
Especially by teenagers. But ive seen teenage girls and the mother joining in on the insults. Until you see first hand whats happening it can be hard to understand why these words become insults.
Ive heard things like go back to the mental ward handicap or retard used in sentences. So its just common sense to change. Especially in the naming of organisations.
Especially by teenagers. But ive seen teenage girls and the mother joining in on the insults. Until you see first hand whats happening it can be hard to understand why these words become insults.
Ive heard things like go back to the mental ward handicap or retard used in sentences. So its just common sense to change. Especially in the naming of organisations.
I use the word retarded, I would never call someone with the above disability or other mental problem retarded. Would you call someone with IDD a retard?
I gather not, so that's why; the only time I really use it is toward friends when they are being incredibly stupid and that's fine, we keep it amongst ourselves and it has absolutely nothing to do with making fun of anyone else.
At least over here I've experienced a shift in the usage of the word, I don't know if elsewhere it's considered a term to use medically but as you've demonstrated; each medical condition has it's own name as it should instead of a grouped classification of "retard". This isn't to say this works for other words/examples.
It's also a word that can be used normally in other situations but of course, this really doesn't matter in this context I understand.
Ultimately It's the intent, not the word itself in this case I feel.
Lightning Count
Member
As someone who was called this horrible word countless times by bullies during my youth owing to my cerebral palsy and ADHD I agree completely. I hate hearing it and I don't use it personally.
The two words are used in a very similar way - they both take something that has happened and apply a word related to mental health to it in a negative which makes light of people with mental disability.
Is stupid the same level as "autistic"? Possibly,
depending on how it's used and with context in mind. After all, not every individual who is lacking in intelligence has a learning disability. Howevet I don't like to call people names regardless. Although I might describe a situation that could have been more thought out as "stupid" or "dumb" as it could have been prevented.
However, unlike stupid I can't think of a situation where "retarded" works. I can think of someone describing their condition by saying "I'm autistic" however outside of that I can't see situations where they fit without the connotations. Nope.
The Giant
Banned
satire.
never know with some people, poe's law and all
Actually I have seen that on this forum
Monochromaticx
Member
this and the new trend of calling everything "autistic" and "mongloid" is disgusting and shameful
Wait, these are things? Well I'm glad I'm not a teenager any more at least...
Perfectly said.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
If people understand that you shouldn't use medical conditions to insult people that don't have them then the word goes away and nothing similar will be used in its place. Otherwise, something replaces it and the cycle continues.
That's nice. I wonder how often you feel the need to tell everyone this. Also, do you not understand how uttering a specific word can be insulting?
And your solution to doing this without explaining why the word "retard" is bad is what?
jim-jam bongs
Member
Totally unacceptable. You say "downs" or "chromosome overloaded", because it has a positive connotation which doesn't insult the disabled/gimps.
Oh my god that Mike story, I can't breathe. xD
Yeah, I dunno. I mean words only have the power we give through usage. If we use the word constantly to describe things unrelated to the mentally handicapped, the meaning will change. I can see it being offensive, sure... I suppose it depends on context. Like if someone says: "Microsoft's new DRM policy is retarded", I wouldn't find that offensive. But if you call someone a retard, implying they're mentally handicapped, that's offensive.
I can assure people the word retard is still used to directly offend the mentally disabled (with ill intent). And I can also assure people this word has had a long history of offensive usage and that this is not some sudden pc-connotation change.
I know many people who are personally hurt by the use. It may be a group of people you are not overly aware of because they cannot participate in society like many of us, but that doesn't mean this does not happen and that they do not pick up on this. And for people like my sister, who has severe mental disabilities, their intellect does not allow them to properly make themselves clear or defend themselves.
I know many people who are personally hurt by the use. It may be a group of people you are not overly aware of because they cannot participate in society like many of us, but that doesn't mean this does not happen and that they do not pick up on this. And for people like my sister, who has severe mental disabilities, their intellect does not allow them to properly make themselves clear or defend themselves.
tbh I think Retarded s kind of where gay or fag were 15-20 years ago, where plenty of people understand that it's offensive but it's so pervasive that it's really hard not to say it. This shit takes a long time to move on, I know I still say it without thinking plenty, and used to say gay and fag plenty in the same manner as a kid, it's NOT easy to break yourself of that and it just takes shifting societal pressure to really make any headway in that regard.
Edit: I also don't think it helps that unlike a lot of other derogatory terms, it's one that the population who is directly insulted by it is probably often not in a position to make any sort of meaningful push back as far as being intolerant to it.
That makes me sad to think about, but it really requires outside advocacy in most cases I would imagine.
Edit: I also don't think it helps that unlike a lot of other derogatory terms, it's one that the population who is directly insulted by it is probably often not in a position to make any sort of meaningful push back as far as being intolerant to it.
That makes me sad to think about, but it really requires outside advocacy in most cases I would imagine.
kavanf1
Member
Spastic and Mongoloid (usually abbreviated to spa and mong) were the big ones in my youth. They hardly seem to be used at all these days. Retard seems to be reaching that stage too. Which makes me wonder what derogatory name my kids are going to end up using casually.
A few decades too late to claw back this euphemism treadmill.
Anyway... we only managed to claw back gay and fag because we stopped thinking that those were bad things to be.
Mental disability though... that's going to be tough.
Until society as a whole is wise and compassionate enough to realize that innate attributes doesn't change the respect and rights we should grant people, there are going to be things that are undesirable that people will continue to use as perjoratives.
Trying to stem the usage of one word (rather than the attitude that we have towards different people) will at best create other euphemisms.
On the flipside... if we have to have insults, maybe we should push the insults towards undesirable characteristics that are actionable.... I mean I say that, but ignorance is actionable... but it's conflated with stupidity (synonym with retard).
Anyway... we only managed to claw back gay and fag because we stopped thinking that those were bad things to be.
Mental disability though... that's going to be tough.
Until society as a whole is wise and compassionate enough to realize that innate attributes doesn't change the respect and rights we should grant people, there are going to be things that are undesirable that people will continue to use as perjoratives.
Trying to stem the usage of one word (rather than the attitude that we have towards different people) will at best create other euphemisms.
On the flipside... if we have to have insults, maybe we should push the insults towards undesirable characteristics that are actionable.... I mean I say that, but ignorance is actionable... but it's conflated with stupidity (synonym with retard).
Jesus Christ. People ARE trying to stem the attitude towards the mentally disabled. They have been for years, take a look at some documentaries. They can also try to stem the usage of the R word at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Its overuse as an insult is what makes it bad and to be avoided, but using mental deficiencies metaphorically is not at all uncommon. Describing someone with seemingly frequent mood swings as "bipolar" or referring to people who appear to switch opinions and stances often as "schizophrenic," for example, are things I see done relatively often (anecdotally speaking, of course.) As a matter of fact, I remember reading a book about the production of David Bowie's "Low" which kept describing Bowie's methods as "autistic," expressing the fact that they are rather distanced, disconnected and unaffected by the world surrounding them. Obviously, all of these are massive oversimplifications of the respective disorders and reflect more of a "pop understanding" of them, but they nevertheless get the point of the person using them across.
Where I draw the line -- as I do with so many things of a similar nature -- is the absence of malice. When Bowie's modus operandi is described as "autistic" there's no intended or tangible harm to either the man himself or actual autistic people, it's used to compare the two. So similarly, if "retarded" was used to actually describe something being behind in development, I'd probably give it a pass too. It's what the word means and why related disabilities were called that in the first place. However, like I said initially, it does seem to be used as an insult mostly which absolutely counts as malice, so using it will probably make you look bad by association alone.
Where I draw the line -- as I do with so many things of a similar nature -- is the absence of malice. When Bowie's modus operandi is described as "autistic" there's no intended or tangible harm to either the man himself or actual autistic people, it's used to compare the two. So similarly, if "retarded" was used to actually describe something being behind in development, I'd probably give it a pass too. It's what the word means and why related disabilities were called that in the first place. However, like I said initially, it does seem to be used as an insult mostly which absolutely counts as malice, so using it will probably make you look bad by association alone.
Is that a triple negative?
Fuck, it made sense in my head. lmao
"There's no situation in which someone is using that kind terminology in a positive way." That probably makes more sense.
This doesn't seem super complicated. Or even complicated.
Retarded used to mean mostly one thing (imposed ceiling of growth; paranthesis because why not), then seemed applicable when we didn't know much about a wide variety of conditions, which also led to it being used as a denigration. Now we know a little bit more, so that particular usage/shitty insult is outdated and we move on to more specific diagnoses/shitty insults!
Still, if someone takes a fish with the capacity to grow like super big and sticks it in a tiny fish tank, technically that person is retarding its growth. Word is still the word. "Stunting" seems like a thing people would do on YouTube or something. That fish is going to die is what I'm saying. Like when they put Jaws in Sea World. It's all very simple.
Retarded used to mean mostly one thing (imposed ceiling of growth; paranthesis because why not), then seemed applicable when we didn't know much about a wide variety of conditions, which also led to it being used as a denigration. Now we know a little bit more, so that particular usage/shitty insult is outdated and we move on to more specific diagnoses/shitty insults!
Still, if someone takes a fish with the capacity to grow like super big and sticks it in a tiny fish tank, technically that person is retarding its growth. Word is still the word. "Stunting" seems like a thing people would do on YouTube or something. That fish is going to die is what I'm saying. Like when they put Jaws in Sea World. It's all very simple.
Agent Gibbs
Member
Has this been posted yet?
The same could be said about people who get offended by words and demand they be removed in favour of another word, couldn't they learn to have a thicker skin? to ignore the words, because the cycle means whatever replaces the current offensive word eventually is used as an insult and...
I think you are intentionally ignoring or refusing to acknowledge the point people are making because you find the word offensive and are unwilling to listen.
The word retarded (Mentally Retarded) was generated by people who thought the previous words were offensive (Spastic, Lame etc) so they had a new word that would shield them from a perceived offence. IDD now is the same thing a new word with no connotations to it, that can be easily used to shield people from a perceived problem, without dealing with the core issues and insecurities surrounding it.
Disabled itself is slowly becoming a dirty word, as people do not like it when someone they think shouldn't use the word in a given context uses is.
Its quite easy to start IDD of as an insult " Do you have IDD or something?" " Look at this fool he's got IDD or something"
Whilst I understand where you are coming from, don't you think this endless cycle is something that is inevitable and at some point people have to accept the harsh reality of life that there will always be people who insult and use words with a negative connotation, and thus the only realistic solution would be to ignore them and deny them the power they obviously have over you?
Stupid and idiot equally had their own intended non-insulting use, but have been through the cycle to the point where they were insulting and now so far down on the scale are considered acceptable once again.
I've seen this throughout my 32 years of life with acceptable terms for race, when I was younger half-cast was acceptable to describe someone of mixed race, I'm not even sure if mixed race is now acceptable as I've seen some consider that insulting and prefer their exact ethnicity (which I'm not sure how a stranger should automatically know).
equally when I was younger calling someone black was considered insulting, and the preferred term was coloured people, now coloured is considered extremely offensive and black is not - hilariously in America I see 'people of colour' is an alternate acceptable term laughably so considering its a rearranging of the insult - Benedict Cumberbatch fell foul of this when trying to highlight the disparity in the film industry so his message was lost for a misstep on wording.
A friend/colleague of mine (who is black) have often had discussions on the topic and eh finds it irritating how people who are easily offended keep changing what is considered acceptable and what is offensive, he thinks people of colour is extremely offensive and no different to coloured people. We often laugh how its got to the point that people are afraid to discuss a persons skin colour as a description, when its an easily identifiable trait e.g people who try and go 'oh the tall man over there, not that one, the other one, in the suit, no no no' and completely make a conscious effort to avoid the obvious description of skin colour out of an irrational fear of insulting someone.
The topic came up recently in relation to a british quiz show called the chase, contestants compete against a randomly chosen expert, one of which is black and his nick name (chosen by him) is the Dark Destroyer, which some have suggested is racist, a colleague's son frequently complains that its racist and you can't call people black - his teacher said so.
Its a ridiculous cycle where the intention of words no longer have any weight and only a singular individuals interpretation matters, in our effort to be all inclusive and inoffensive, we have allowed individuals feeling to go unchecked and change society, when perhaps their view is wrong, but we dare not question it out of fear of offence.
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