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[Tulipanzo]

Good enough for the casuals

Casuals still like value, otherwise the WiiU would have been a runaway success.

Taking an established piece of hardware, then chopping off its most compelling features is going to play poorly.

 

[chilichote]

Okok, the console is theoretically stronger than the One X, but has 2GB less RAM?

How do I get 10GB? Simply because the XSeX has 13.5GB usable for games and the end result comes to 16GB, which is why I assume that the XSeS will also get 2.5GB for the operating system.

How do you want to make this clear to people who are not permanently hanging out on NeoGaf?

 

[Sony]

No idea what they are waiting for with this? You going to launch it along side the series x and confuse more people?

In that regards, I don't think that the existense of the consoles will confuse people. Their naming scheme however, that's horrible.
For example, I was at a store a couple weeks ago and they had an Xbox One S and and Xbox One X next to each other. The One X was on sale for 299. The pricetags were right next to each other.
So an Xbox One S and Xbox One X were next to each other, both for 299. Based on the naming of the consoles, it's not clear cut for a customer to know which one is better.
PS4 Pro being better than a PS4 is self-explanatory. I really don't like MS's naming of these consoles.

 

[joe_zazen]

That's not a good thing at all! What happens when a game is 1440p and 30 fps on XSX?

.

xsx is kneecapped by xss for sure.

 

[Tulipanzo]

That's not a good thing at all! What happens when a game is 1440p and 30 fps on XSX?

Hitting the nail on the head.
UE5 and the MineCraft RT demo are already showing certain GPU techniques may lower resolutions on main hardware.

In these scenarios the Lockhart goes well below 1080p.

 

[Hobbygaming]

this is not how it works. This would mean that basically almost every game out there will be limited by NINTENDO SWITCH. Lol
And keep in mind, that one the best looking games at the Sony event was a cross-gen game: Kena.

Game development nowadays is very scalable. They are basically like PCs now and with SSDs its easier than ever. its not like back then, when we had CELL etc. where developing a game was a nightmare.

Devs can easily get the best out of XSX and just scale down to XSS, its not that hard, since they have the same architecture. Lower Resolution and you are done.
Just look at Flight Simulator - the best looking nextgen we've seen so far. And it's coming to Xbox One.

Developers would have to take Lockhart into consideration day one which means that can't go too crazy with the game design

Some things don't scale well

Will Microsoft force every developer to develop two different versions of the same game to be released day one by the same studio? This doesn't sound realistic

 

[Shin]

make sense, trying something ground breaking is welcome

Imo the only difference is in the loss of gpu power, so lower res here and there.

Everyone gets what they are willing to pay for on Xbox, they catered to the casuals and hardcore alike.
Leave it to people here to claim the sky is falling.

 

[martino]

No idea what they are waiting for with this? You going to launch it along side the series x and confuse more people?

depending on price it will not confuse most people for long.

 

[Fake]

That's not a good thing at all! What happens when a game is 1440p and 30 fps on XSX?

I guess they pretty much forget the parity bs.

 

[Nikana]

I guess they pretty much forget the parity bs.

I forgot about the parity wars. I somehow removed it from my brain and now you go an bring it back. Thanks.

 

[mckmas8808]

Same as PC. Use lower resolution textures.

So just press the Lockhart button and viola?

 

[jimbojim]

Amazing concern trolling from the Sony camp.

Microsoft doing everything right here. The most powerful console for bragging rights, and the cheapest for all parents out there who want to get their kids a fifa/cod machine.

Classic pincer move, that should make some headway into the Sony/MS sold machines ratio.

Concern trolling. LOL

How about when Xbox fan says that Lockhart would outperform PS5 in this very thread? What is that then?

 

[Kuranghi]

what do you think the new Assassin's Creed will run at on One S?
or Watch Dogs 3? or *insert every cross gen game here*

the One S will be supported for maybe a year after the next gen launches, and it would be supported anyways since that's how cross gen periods work.

lower the settings, lower the resolution to acceptable levels and lower the framerate from 60fps to 30fps if necessary.

Microsoft themselves are targeting 60fps for all their next gen titles, that's pretty much a given.
this also gives them a lot of room for downporting their games to Xbox One.
they now not only have the option to run the game at lower resolutions and settings but also half the framerate.
this is not only a gigantic reduction in GPU performance needed but also greatly reduces the needed CPU performance.

so porting a 4k60 Series X game to Xbox One should be absolutely no issue and at worst would mean a 900p30fps port.

1st bold: That would be great, but I'll believe it when I see it, if someone told me Horizon 2 will run at 60 fps I'd also not believe them until I saw the retail release.

2nd bold: Yeah I can't argue with that, but not for the reasons you'd think.

 

[martino]

That's not a good thing at all! What happens when a game is 1440p and 30 fps on XSX?

seems obvious 810p / 900p - 30 fps

 

[T-Cake]

I'll make a correction to my post. It will probably mean Lockhart 1080px or 1440px where x = the same frame rate as XSX. That way, they only have to lower the resolution and maybe some effects/assets. I think the framerate will be identical in order that XSX can have 4K 30fps games. XSS can then have the same game at 1080p/1440p 30fps. If XSX drops to 1440p30, then XSS can be 900p30 or something.

 

[01011001]

That's not a good thing at all! What happens when a game is 1440p and 30 fps on XSX?

very easy to answer. it would mean it's 720p30 on Lockhart.

or optionally, reduced settings (maybe all raytracing gone) at higher resolutions.

reducing shadow quality and ambient occlusion quality goes a long way to reduce strain on the GPU.
An example I experienced first hand only recently was in Resident Evil 3 on PC. lowering the shadow quality from the highest to the second highest setting available gave a 30fps performance increase on my PC, while not looking that much worse either.

a lower resolution would also hide lower shadow and AO quality to a point, so that's the setting that would go down first.

we are only talking 1/4 of the resolution when we assume all the other settings to be 100% identical to the Series X version.


also, these Lockhart specs would mean they have headroom to push the game above 1/4 of the Series X resolution, since 1/4 of 12TF would be 3TF. A 4TF gpu gives them a bit of leeway for edge cases like the one you described.

 

[Xdrive05]

This is insane.

However, if they can actually hit a ridiculously low price point like $200, then that's a big effing deal.

But I think they do still need Velocity Architecture and SSD to make this work. Xbox fans were shitting on PS5's SSD for allegedly not going to be utilized properly in 3rd party engines because the Series X will be the baseline around which next gen I/O will have to be designed. Well, Series S better be able to match the X, or we're all getting shit on in terms of I/O engine design.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

MS is driven by money, not the love of games. I cant believe that people actually believed that last statement...useful idiots indeed.

I'm sure the people working at Sony and Nintendo are all true, passionate gamers
Oh what a wonderful world to live in where there's companies not out to make money

 

[T-Cake]

But I think they do still need Velocity Architecture and SSD to make this work. Xbox fans were shitting on PS5's SSD for allegedly not going to be utilized properly in 3rd party engines because the Series X will be the baseline around which next gen I/O will have to be designed. Well, Series S better be able to match the X, or we're all getting shit on in terms of I/O engine design.

Pretty sure all the tech stuff will be present but you may get half the SSD space (always upgradeable by the external plugin drives).

 

[dorkimoe]

In that regards, I don't think that the existense of the consoles will confuse people. Their naming scheme however, that's horrible.
For example, I was at a store a couple weeks ago and they had an Xbox One S and and Xbox One X next to each other. The One X was on sale for 299. The pricetags were right next to each other.
So an Xbox One S and Xbox One X were next to each other, both for 299. Based on the naming of the consoles, it's not clear cut for a customer to know which one is better.
PS4 Pro being better than a PS4 is self-explanatory. I really don't like MS's naming of these consoles.

Yeah i am more talking about the name. I cant believe they are sticking with it. So I will have an Xbox one X and an xbox one series x

 

[mckmas8808]

Lockhart to me seems like the new baseline for a PC to run Xbox series games. Minimum SSD and ability to utilise smart features like DLSS and VRS

Does the smart features like DLSS and VRS use CPU cycles? Or does MS have other hardware in Lockhart to handle that?

 

[Sony]

MS is driven by money, not the love of games. I cant believe that people actually believed that last statement...useful idiots indeed.

There isn't a single company in the world who's corporate goal isn't to make money. It's business 101.

 

[ZywyPL]

Those specs make sense. XBX CPU is 3.66GHz with multithreadding, PS5's will be 3,5GHz tops, so even if Lockhart is underclocked to about 3.2-3.4GHz, it should run all the games perfectly fine, after all it won't have to back up a 10-12TF GPU. Memory - 7.5GB for 1080p should be enough, PS4 Pro has 5.5GB usable and it runs games at 1440-1800p with decent/high res textures, scale the res and textures down and we're good to go. I'm curious what would be the total amount of memory? The rumors suggest 12GB, which would mean 4.5GB for the OS, bit given XBX ises obly 2.5GB, 10GB total RAM sounds about right. As for the GPU, 4TF is equivalent to Pro, but with half/quarter of the targeted resolution, and given it's RDNA2 it should be closer to X1X in real world performance. The drive will most likely be the SSD, but with cut down capacity to 500GB.

 

[Dural]

It's nothing like that.

These are both the same system. Running the same OS, Same Software, Same game package.

Just one is more powerful. It will probably auto adjust and the devs won't need to do anything.

Exactly, I mean they mention a Lockhart profile in the sdk. I’m sure MS knows exactly what they need to run at 1/4 the resolution hardware wise, it looks like they may even give it a little more than what it would need.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Less RAM? There goes world design.

 

[AGRacing]

The Ram amount VS One X is worrying.

The CPU VS Series X is worrying.

Weird bottlenecks to overcome for both previous gen backwards compatibility and next gen framerate? Hard to believe only resolution will be compromised....

Maybe there's a new compression hardware trick to use for the RAM though...?

 

[SLB1904]

trash. this needs to be 300 cheaper than the ps5 im not even talking about the series x, to be worth it

 

[Journey]

Fucking MS botching nextgen again. XSX is awesome but of course they have to fuck it all up by making that Lockhart shit as base for nextgen games.

Damn nVidia did great with the 2080ti, but they had to fuck it all by making a 2060, now I can’t play Cyberpunk 2077 with Ray Tracing grrr.

 

[sinnergy]

Damn nVidia did great with the 2080ti, but they had to fuck it all by making a 2060, now I can’t play Cyberpunk 2077 with Ray Tracing grrr.

Yup, but the console crowd needs some years to except this.

like we are almost all digital now, only took 7 years. The rest of the world played steam. And watched Netflix and listened music via Spotify.

 

[deriks]

Looks too weird, even for 1440 standards. And I guess that this will be the end of the One line.

 

[Dabaus]

Anyone telling you that 7.5 gigs of RAM, an underclocked cpu, and 4 tflop gpu wont effect game design is willfully lying, shilling, or purposely running interference for Microsoft. Im no tech expert, but i refuse to believe it.

 

[Iced Arcade]

oh damn a lower powered console! imagine if PC had lower spec PC's and minimum spec requirements... that would hold back any potential high end gaming on PC.


also imagine is these consoles where basically pre packaged pc's

 

[sinnergy]

Anyone telling you that 7.5 gigs of RAM, an underclocked cpu, and 4 tflop gpu wont effect game design is willfully lying, shilling, or purposely running interference for Microsoft. Im no tech expert, but i refuse to believe it.

Why ? You have the Ssd, velocity achtitecture , the same cpu and gpu architecture... I don’t think it will be a big deal.

 

[Eliciel]

this is not creating any interest for me.

 

[01011001]

Anyone telling you that 7.5 gigs of RAM, an underclocked cpu, and 4 tflop gpu wont effect game design is willfully lying, shilling, or purposely running interference for Microsoft. Im no tech expert, but i refuse to believe it.

translation: "I have no idea what I'm talking about but I know this can't be true!"

why don't you join the flat earth society, you'd fit in perfectly... they have the same mindset.

 

[tryDEATH]

They'll use checkerboarding or DirectML to get it to 4K. That's less intensive, and you'll see the difference BUT that's what you get with a $200 console.

It is literally what PS4 Pro did and everyone was saying they barely saw the difference compared to native 4K on the 1X so this shouldn't be a problem for those same folks that are concerned.

 

[JLB]

Hitting the nail on the head.
UE5 and the MineCraft RT demo are already showing certain GPU techniques may lower resolutions on main hardware.

In these scenarios the Lockhart goes well below 1080p.

How can you possibly know this? We dont even know if this thing exists.

 

[fermcr]

Not a good idea if it's less powerful then the Xbox One X... but I'm no businessman , so what the hell do I know?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Surely Microsoft have to discontinue either the One S or the One X (or both) if they are indeed launching a lower end Series S?
Current price of the One S in the UK is around £200 for the all digital edition or £250 for the regular.
The rumors are the Series S would be a similar price. If that is the case, where does that leave the One X and One S?

 

[jimbojim]

So, it won't be so cheap. My guess from 300 - 350$

Good, a final nail in their co....ass i mean.

 

[Nikana]

Not a good idea if it's less powerful then the Xbox One X... but I'm no businessman , so what the hell do I know?

It's not less powerful.

 

[Dabaus]

translation: "I have no idea what I'm talking about but I know this can't be true!"

why don't you join the flat earth society, you'd fit in perfectly... they have the same mindset.

How much is Microsoft paying you and how can I get in on the grift?

 

[Kuranghi]

My guess, if I were to make a PC analogy:
Xbox Series X:
4K @ Very High Settings @ 60FPS

Xbox Series S
1440p @ High @ 30FPS |
1080p @ med @ 60fps

Xbox One X
1080p @ Med @ 30FPS

Xbox One S
900p @ low @ 30fps

I don't know if consumers will be happy with having paid £300 for the new console and then get it home and its the same resolution as their old PS3/360 on their 75" 4K TV, no amount of AI upscaling to 4K will hide the problems in that image. Normal people don't know what to look for when analysing an image but they certainly know when things feel/look rubbish and it subconsciously affects their future purchases.

"I really enjoyed the story of this game but it was really blurry" or "it had loads of jaggies" or more likely (after upscaling) "The graphics were a bit weird, I thought I could sneak in here but when I got closer to it a chain link fence appeared that wasn't there at a distance" and "there was this weird smudge effect on things in the distance", I'm not talking about LODs, I mean subpixel rendering and upscaling artifacts.

 

[Dabaus]

So, it won't be so cheap. My guess from 300 - 350$

Good, a final nail in their co....ass i mean.

Closing down mixer, closing Microsoft stores, touting garbage like bleeding edge and Grounded, new watered down "cheap" console is apparently not even going to be cheap. Read the room yall, get your head out of the sand, believe your lying eyes, this is a company in full retreat from the hardware business. They just want to pull the band aid off slowly.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Not a good idea if it's less powerful then the Xbox One X... but I'm no businessman , so what the hell do I know?

They already have the "Mostest Powerfullest Next-gen Console" and now they are going for the "Leastest Powerfullestest Next-gen Console".

 

[onQ123]

.

xsx is kneecapped by xss for sure.

If it was only Xbox SX & SS maybe but with the way MS is going about things & just trying to create a large user base across more devices from Xbox One & up + PC Xbox SS isn't going to be a problem it will just play the games at a different level while giving people a cheaper option with next gen features.

 

[tryDEATH]

the only issue I see with the system if it's specs are like this is the RAM.
they need at least 12GB of ram to make sure One X enhanced titles can actually run on it.

if it can only run Xbox One games in base mode that would be a huge bummer. of course they would run much better than on base Xbox One but some games are locked to sub 1080p resolutions and 30fps modes where the One X versions offer way higher resolutions and/or 60fps, see Minecraft Dungeons for example, which indeed has both, a massively improved resolution and twice the framerate over the base version

That could be a valid concern, but everyone here seems to ignore the improvement in the pipelines. HDD vs SSD, GDDR5 vs GDDR6, memory bandwidth/speed, and a multitude of other new advanced software that will eclipse what the One X was capable of in every category.

 

[jimbojim]

That could be a valid concern, but everyone here seems to ignore the improvement in the pipelines. HDD vs SSD, GDDR5 vs GDDR6, memory bandwidth/speed, and a multitude of other new advanced software that will eclipse what the One X was capable of in every category.

We don't know the RAM speed in Lockhart. Maybe it's also gimped

 

[splattered]

trash. this needs to be 300 cheaper than the ps5 im not even talking about the series x, to be worth it

So you want Lockhart to be a $400 machine then?

 

[SLB1904]

So you want Lockhart to be a $400 machine then?

lord lol