So you're saying it is cheaper to completely throw away binned SOCs instead of repackage them and sell them for less?
Yes. Performance per watt means it's offering more performance for the same amount of power consumption. So if rdna 1. was consuming 180w for a 8 tflops card. Rdna 2.0 would be 8 tflops for just 120w.
What it would NOT be is offer 12 tflops of power for the same number of tflops.
What you are looking for is performance per clock. That shows the performance per flop metric we can use to figure out what an rdna 2 tflops is worth.
Would only consider a XsX S if it has a disc drive for physical media.
I would be shocked if it has one......
Is it ok that it has less TF than the Xbox one x?
Is it ok that it has less TF than the Xbox one x?
If MS are hellbent on releasing a Series S, I HOPE they make an absolutely clear statement that the Series S is the port-down machine, i.e the Series X is the main platform and baseline for their next-gen system development. It needs to be a 100% clear-cut statement, no wiggle room, and set the record straight.
Because while there are even people here concern-trolling and doing bad faith arguments Lockhart will hold back Series X, to be perfectly honest...there is no definitive statement from MS on this to shut down any of those concerns, either. All of the hype and goodwill they've built up for next-gen has been through the XSX; if they either outright go forward internally or let a narrative dominate that Lockhart/Series S will be their main focus, all of that hype and goodwill will be lost. Literally all of it.
I still say there are logistical reasons to not release Lockhart, in fact some of those are the same reason I have doubts with Sony's dual PS5 SKu strategy, too. But at least in Sony's case the only thing different between the two models is a disc drive. The differences between XSX and Lockhart/Series S are MUCH more pronounced and that increases the threat in bad production allocation for one device over the other while leaving demand unfulfilled, risking a loss of sales.
In other words, if a PS5 buyer wants a PS5 and the disc unit isn't there, they probably won't be too fussed to buy the Digital Edition. Same experience, just no physical media. Plus Sony could always just release a disc drive reader in the future if Digital Edition owners want physical media without needing to purchase the disc PS5. If a XSX buyer wants a XSX but it isn't there, they're presented with a Series S and might choose to pass since there are very specific things one could want out of XSX that Lockhart/Series S can't provide. The risk is, if there's a PS5 around instead, that would-be XSX buyer could very well just pick up a PS5 instead and never look back. In the case both XSX and both PS5 versions are gone, they could just opt to wait until one of them is back in stock, and still refuse buying a Lockhart/Series S.
That's the genuine concern here. Let's face it, the vast majority of launch day and launch-period console buyers are hardcore/core gamers who aren't necessarily price-conscious, if the value is there. XSX presents the value. PS5 presents the value. Lockhart/Series S might present value to more casual types, but they don't make up the vast majority of console buyers within the first year or so. I get the feeling MS is trying to replicate the Wii here, where that's the only home console in history which appealed to casuals right off the bat, in addition to hardcore/core gamers.
But, the Wii did this by providing a playing experience NO OTHER CONSOLE had up to that point. The concept was just so novel and fresh that it drove adoption to the platform immediately. As far as we know, the Lockhart/Series S is just a weaker XSX in the same traditional console form factor, so where is the hook for casual gamers besides a cheap price? Where is the hook for hardcore/core gamers, for that matter, who we already know aren't as price-conscious at the start of a new generation?
Is it GamePass? Maybe. But GamePass will also be on XSX, and it's already on the XBO S and X to boot. The Wii had a unique hook that was exclusively its own. I get the feeling MS's hook with Lockhart/Series S is to push it as a subscription box to their "Netflix of gaming", i.e GamePass. The question is, will that be enough for casuals?
Personally I don't actually think so, but if they paired GamePass with a roll-in to other film/television subscription services like Netflix, Hulu, HBO MAX etc....that I actually CAN see being a big hook, but only if they could manage a way to subsidize the normal subscription cost for such services into a marginal cost on top of GamePass's fee. But, what streaming service would actually be willing to do this? That's something where you'd want your own streaming service to roll in to push, with your own vault of content. Oddly enough Sony's in a better position to do that than Microsoft.
So overall, I just don't see what besides being cheaper Lockhart/Series S brings to the equation. I'm looking at this in terms of what hook is there to incentivize casuals AND hardcore/core gamers the way the Wii did almost 15 years ago. Price alone was not the main reason the Wii did as well as it did. MS will have the hardcore/core-appealing 1st-party games for sure this time around, but those games will also be available for (and play better on) the XSX. Again, Nintendo (due to their vastly different architectures) had to develop unique software for the Wii and NDS, but that also made each platform appealing enough for many to buy both. I don't want this to go into the "exclusives" argument that keeps getting brought up repetitively, but unique offerings between multiple platform offerings can go a long way, we've already seen this over a decade ago.
So yeah, I really hope MS knows what they are doing with Lockhart/Series S; I still think going exclusively with XSX is the better business plan for short-and-long term. I don't want to see them squander their big chance before the generation kicks off, and so far they've been on-point with messaging and keeping the spotlight on the Xbox Series X. That's best not just for us but for Microsoft as well.
So Microsoft made an exception piece of hardware only to shaft it with this piece of shit?
Mark my words, this is only because the XSX is more expensive than the PS5.
If the XSX was the same price you wouldn't be seeing this.
Microsoft have gone high and low where as Sony has gone Mid.
Microsoft would have been better sticking to just the XSX and taking a loss.
Yeah they are not the same but for sony to have a console thats a bit cheaper and which uses the same power as the disc version will help sony boost their sales. I know here in the Netherlands people can download almost unlimitedA diskless SKU with otherwise identical specs and a 1/3 the power console are not exactly the same proposition.
Me too but if you want to have the whole xbox experience it should have for BC with older games even if it’s a little gimped.I would be shocked if it has one......
Good thing you're not in charge of anything.
If they want a 1080p machine and a 4k machine the CPUs need to be really close to make sure that gameplay loops dont need to be compromised to make the game work.
Why do they even need this when they already have the One X? Why not just make One X the budget machine? This thing is weaker than a One X even. So dumb
Why do they even need this when they already have the One X? Why not just make One X the budget machine? This thing is weaker than a One X even. So dumb
Honestly a lower spec, cheaper console aimed squarely at the casual masses either needs/wants a drive or a very cheap price. See the One S SAD below in the UK. It wouldn't even sell at £129.
Oh the irony. Do some research before you call things weaker and dumb.
How would they even know what the ps5 was going to cost? When these things are planned they dont even know what each other is building.
Why would they bring this to market???
People keep saying it can play everything on XSX but at 1080p? That’s the only compromise being made here? So all that crazy boost in power for the xsx is legit just to get games in 4K? That’s all those extra teraflops and what not actually accomplish? Skeptical
Slower CPU and less RAM?!? Very weird as the thought was “just” a bit less ram as it targets 1080p and a bit slower GPU for the same reason but no CPU speed differential.
Yeah, hypothetically, I would imagine quite a few things being dialed down as well.
so what the hell is the point in the teraflops thing everybody was talking about? It’s just to make games 4K? Does this mean every game has to be 4K on series x? Because what if you design something like the last of us part 2 and compromise frame rate and resolution to get the best graphics out of the hardware - what would that look like on xss?Except that based on what we know so far, that's not actually true. With the same ssd, ram speed, ray tracing, graphics core, and processor, it should in fact be very similar but a lower resolution.
Except that based on what we know so far, that's not actually true. With the same ssd, ram speed, ray tracing, graphics core, and processor, it should in fact be very similar but a lower resolution.
He is pretty much THE most reputable source in games journalism.Jason Schreier is not a real source.
While CPU is much improved, RAM amount and GPU are worse, meaning it can't run X1X Enhanced games.It will have far better performance across most/all of the board. 2 gens of improved GPU architecture, features and efficiency gains plus a CPU that won't hold it back.
The prediction: LH: 1080p SEX 4k
The reality : LH 720p SEX 1080p with some remasters from previous gen in 4k
Warren came and clarify the cpu is same, as expected
Ram is less as like what happens when you choose say, a 6series vs a 8series gpu.
I predict it targets 1080p at $299, sure you lose resolution in pixels, texels and RT, but next gen game design will not be affected.
At that srp, it gives tons of next gen value!
So Lockhart is turning out to be an ace in the hole. We need to drop the 'tradition' mindset. Things change and refreshing.
While CPU is much improved, RAM amount and GPU are worse, meaning it can't run X1X Enhanced games.
Unless devs make specific Lockhart improvements, separate from their X1X ones, they'll run with OG X1 settingsit can run these but not at 4K (probably)
With that out of the way, what graphics settings use up the most RAM?
In truth, pretty much every setting will take up a certain amount of VRAM, but currently, the most demanding one is by far the resolution.
Increasing the rendering resolution from 1080p to 1440p noticeably increases VRAM usage, and 4K obviously ramps it up even further.
Not really. Sony releasing a digital-only version of the same console? That's most likely because the base PS5 is very expensive - they're offering the same product targeted to the same demographic with a slight change to give themselves the ability to lower the price to undercut their competitor. Offering two versions of the exact same hardware at launch is something you do unless there's a reason for people to not buy one of them. I'm expecting the base PS5 is be very expensive - USD$599 or more. Sony are attempting to outpace PC hardware - that's going to cost them enormously.So Microsoft made an exceptional piece of hardware only to shaft it with this piece of shit?
Mark my words, this is only because the XSX is more expensive than the PS5.
If the XSX was the same price you wouldn't be seeing this.
Microsoft have gone high and low where as Sony has gone Mid.
Microsoft would have been better sticking to just the XSX and taking a loss.
Damn. Well, I really don't understand MS' approach here, then. They're planning on having a system that plays the same games, but can only load into RAM just a bit more than half the assets of the other.
Would they really release a console in 2020 that doesn't really do 4K? We're talking nearly /2 RAM here. They'd need to go back to 1080p to really save on RAM.
Between this & Series X we're actually pretty close to the same difference in RAM & TF between a Switch & Base PS4.
Lots of assumptions there:This console can play all nextgen games at 1080p with the same quality as XSX/PS5, but instead of 4K it’s in 1080p only.
Let’s say you only have a 1080p TV and don’t habe a 4K TV.
why wouldn’t you just go with the XSS? Due to corona etc.A lot of people simply don’t have the money for a new 4K tv and a high end console.
For those people the XSS could be great.
For devs it will be easy, simple reduce the resolution. Everything else can stay the same.
Warren came and clarify the cpu is same, as expected
Ram is less as like what happens when you choose say, a 6series vs a 8series gpu.
I predict it targets 1080p at $299, sure you lose resolution in pixels, texels and RT, but next gen game design will not be affected.
At that srp, it gives tons of next gen value!
So Lockhart is turning out to be an ace in the hole. We need to drop the 'tradition' mindset. Things change and refreshing.
Shakespeare would cry in joy if he ever read this.It's not real, it's fake.
But if it is real, it's great.
But if it's not great, it's easy for developers.
But if developers hate it, then it's cheap.
But if it's not cheap, then it doesn't matter because MS will cancel it.
But if they won't cancel it, it's fine because the XSX has more TFs.
This console can play all nextgen games at 1080p with the same quality as XSX/PS5, but instead of 4K it’s in 1080p only.
Let’s say you only have a 1080p TV and don’t habe a 4K TV.
why wouldn’t you just go with the XSS? Due to corona etc.A lot of people simply don’t have the money for a new 4K tv and a high end console.
For those people the XSS could be great.
For devs it will be easy, simple reduce the resolution. Everything else can stay the same.
Why would they bring this to market???