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[DynamiteCop!]

Call them haters and children all you want, but that's just an easy way out to not evaluate the problem and how things got here. Something changed and not with the society which judges these games.

It's funny really, when a game isn't pandering or trying to force political ideologies on the player how well it does. Then comes this game...

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I think everyone trying to justify the game being bad because it's "SJW" or whatever, honestly it just makes you look bad. Firstly, you can have shitty games/movies/comics/whatever that are simply bad due to having awful stories and characters without any SJW influences. So if the common link between those and bad products bad due to being SJW...why not just focus on the actual flaws of the work instead of jumping to a trendy label?

IMO if you actually know enough about creative aspects of works in a field and put some actual thought into constructive analysis, you shouldn't need to run to "it's SJW" to say why something's bad. If we want to get the current SJW infestation in gaming and other media (and I mean the genuine SJW stuff, not sensible aspects of diversity or representation that some anti-SJWs lump in as being SJW because they're oversensitive pissants), then a good way to start would be by not needing to lean onto those labels in criticizing works that may be nonetheless afflicted by trends associated with that label.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I think this is a very reasonable take. If these 0/10 people looked at the game without comparing to all the 10s it got from critics reviewers, they would have probably gave it like 7. But they feel so pissed that they are really overreacting.

Its not really overreacting, its just how user score works.

When some random guy goes on to leave a review of a game/movie, he'll fully understand his review is just one among thousands of others and very few people will actually bother about it. The mentality then will shift from giving a full impression of the media towards dragging the overall user score upwards or downwards depending on whether he liked it or not, considering the overall score is what most people end up seeing.

Steam reviews for example take that into account, players are only allowed to leave a "Recommended" or a "Not recommended" score, and the overall score is calculated based on those binary views.

 

[MoreJRPG]

So let me get this straight. Left Behind DLC, it’s known Ellie is gay, great reviews. Horizon Zero Dawn, strong female lead, great reviews. Life is Strange, female leads and gay. Great reviews. Detroit
Become Human, save lesbian robots. Great reviews.

But the reason this game has bad reviews according to some is because of a female lead that’s gay and it’s all a mastermind plan devised by the “alt-right.”

Okay.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

So let me get this straight. Left Behind DLC, it’s known Ellie is gay, great reviews. Horizon Zero Dawn, strong female lead, great reviews. Life is Strange, female leads and gay. Great reviews. Detroit
Become Human, save lesbian robots. Great reviews.

But the reason this game has bad reviews according to some is because of a female lead that’s gay and it’s all a mastermind plan devised by the “alt-right.”

Okay.

Please stop and delete your account. There is no room in this discussion or discussions like it for logic and reasoning.

 

[Self]

How about seeing it like this: people are giving it 0/10 precisely because they think all this 10/10 being given out freely are completely undeserved?
Its not that they think the game is a 0/10, its that they feel critics giving it a 10/10 were fishy so they countered with a 0/10.

That would be an act of defiance, not a honest approach.

A 10 out of 10 could at least be legit, but a 0 out of 10 certainly not.

 

[DForce]

So let me get this straight. Left Behind DLC, it’s known Ellie is gay, great reviews. Horizon Zero Dawn, strong female lead, great reviews. Life is Strange, female leads and gay. Great reviews. Detroit
Become Human, save lesbian robots. Great reviews.

But the reason this game has bad reviews according to some is because of a female lead that’s gay and it’s all a mastermind plan devised by the “alt-right.”

Okay.

The political climate was different back in 2013. when left behind was released.

Detroit: Become Human was criticized for being "woke", especially Marcus' story.

As for this game, people are upset about what happens during the first 3 hours of the game, and people think political reasons were behind it.

Spoiler: First 3 hours

They people were claiming it was due in large part of identity politics and they believed Naughty Dog wanted to get rid of white males from the story.

It's not their main reason for hating the game, but people can't ignore the fact that people are saying this game is filled with SJW propaganda that's being forced on us.

 

[Woggleman]

It is probably the first major came where the protagonist is openly and her gay relationship is a part of the story. That is what has caught the attention of the Steve Bannon crowd and when they are outraged they do not let up. Look at gamergate. They also helped to elect a president so they are organized and have influence. There are legitimate reasons to criticize this game but they are drowning out with their toxicity.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Spoiler: First 3 hours

They people were claiming it was due in large part of identity politics and they believed Naughty Dog wanted to get rid of white males from the story.

It's not their main reason for hating the game, but people can't ignore the fact that people are saying this game is filled with SJW propaganda that's being forced on us.

That's just so wild to me that people are quick to make those associations, haha. When I saw THAT, it just felt like a poor take in writing and direction. Like in The Walking Dead's TV series, sometimes things made sense and were justified (Referring to the early good/decent portions of that show, god knows what it's been up to the past few seasons, lmao). Some just felt out of place and unnecessary. I feel like there's a lot in this that feels like the latter.

That's the thing, I feel like I'm reading the SJW propaganda portion before reading anything else of substance, and that's from the majority that don't like it.

 

[Shinobitron]

The majority of people hating on this game is for the story, yes there is a minority of people being hateful to the lgbt community. So I guess you can pick and choose who you want to yell at.

 

[evanft]

Call them haters and children all you want, but that's just an easy way out to not evaluate the problem and how things got here. Something changed and not with the society which judges these games.

It's funny really, when a game isn't pandering or trying to force political ideologies on the player how well it does. Then comes this game...

Jesus Christ this post.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Can you actually know about how it plays without playing it? Because if watching was enough David Cage's games would be 2-3 points better than they are lol.

I've never understood these people that think they can review a game by watching it on YouTube

 

[Swadedtx]

It is probably the first major came where the protagonist is openly and her gay relationship is a part of the story. That is what has caught the attention of the Steve Bannon crowd and when they are outraged they do not let up. Look at gamergate. They also helped to elect a president so they are organized and have influence. There are legitimate reasons to criticize this game but they are drowning out with their toxicity.

Lesbian porn is number 1 I think, I don't think anyone cares about that in fact it's never mentioned in any reviews that people even care about her being a lesbian. The bigot sandwhich thing just seemed forced.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Spoiler: First 3 hours

They people were claiming it was due in large part of identity politics and they believed Naughty Dog wanted to get rid of white males from the story.

This is kind of conspiracy theory, though. Or at least it can be interpreted that way. There are plenty of other white males in the game up to the end, if this was ND's agenda then there'd be zero in the game.

It sounds a lot like when some black extremists claim a movie's racist because the black guy dies first...even if there are other black characters in the movie. Sometimes things happen and a character's traits are just incidental happenstances, not the reason those things are done.

Something tells me though that some of the people hanging their hopes on this agenda theory are usually the same ones who ignore actual documented historical instances of industries or bodies targeting other groups in one way or another.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I've never understood these people that think they can review a game by watching it on YouTube

I think it's less of reviewing it, and just more so people being able to sketch up an opinion over seeing it in action. It's like going to a concert and watching a video of that same concert. There's a primary "feeling" that's missing, sure, but you can still take in a lot of the same experience. Some get what they're looking for out of it, some don't.

 

[Woggleman]

Lesbian porn is number 1 I think, I don't think anyone cares about that in fact it's never mentioned in any reviews that people even care about her being a lesbian. The bigot sandwhich thing just seemed forced.

There is a difference titillation and a genuine gay relationship being depicted. Plus for some reason people think Dina is ugly.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

The political climate was different back in 2013. when left behind was released.

Detroit: Become Human was criticized for being "woke", especially Marcus' story.

As for this game, people are upset about what happens during the first 3 hours of the game, and people think political reasons were behind it.

Spoiler: First 3 hours

They people were claiming it was due in large part of identity politics and they believed Naughty Dog wanted to get rid of white males from the story.

It's not their main reason for hating the game, but people can't ignore the fact that people are saying this game is filled with SJW propaganda that's being forced on us.

Drunkman has put a target on the Studio with comments hes made in regards to other characters in games (many who are loved).

Ask yourself why is Ellie, Abby, or whoever better than say... Cortana from Halo 1-4.

He started the comparisons and the conversation. He started the attacks.

 

[Deto]

Lesbian porn is number 1 I think, I don't think anyone cares about that in fact it's never mentioned in any reviews that people even care about her being a lesbian. The bigot sandwhich thing just seemed forced.

exactly

lesbian porn is good for you, man, to masturbate.

lesbian dating of the last of us is not good because it is not made for you to masturbate.

 

[Deto]

Most streamers like this game.

Unless they're all alt SJW trolls too idk what to tell you. Maybe the story just good

 

[B-universe]

That would be an act of defiance, not a honest approach.

A 10 out of 10 could at least be legit, but a 0 out of 10 certainly not.

Maybe the scale should be shortened, just for Naughty Dog?

Lads and gents, I give you AASAO, the Almanac Abridged Scale of Admissible Opinions:
- From 6 to 10.

It is probably the first major came where the protagonist is openly and her gay relationship is a part of the story. That is what has caught the attention of the Steve Bannon crowd and when they are outraged they do not let up. Look at gamergate. They also helped to elect a president so they are organized and have influence. There are legitimate reasons to criticize this game but they are drowning out with their toxicity.

Congrats, you have successfully concatenated all of the usual buzzwords. gay, Steve Bannon, Gamergate, president, toxicity, in a single paragraph.

You have completed the quest called "Claim a scary homophobic right-wing conspiracy exists while presenting no evidence".
You get 1 XP point(s).

 

[Guilty_AI]

That would be an act of defiance, not a honest approach.

A 10 out of 10 could at least be legit, but a 0 out of 10 certainly not.

An act of defiance is an honest approach. They leave those 0/10 precisely because they believe those 10/10 aren't honest themselves. Thats completely valid imo.

I mean, this is nothing new. Players have been on bad terms with big review outlets and game journalists for years now.

 

[ethomaz]

Call them haters and children all you want, but that's just an easy way out to not evaluate the problem and how things got here. Something changed and not with the society which judges these games.

It's funny really, when a game isn't pandering or trying to force political ideologies on the player how well it does. Then comes this game...

Or Metacritic removed the zeroes from these games like they do with all of them.
TLOU2 will be removed soon.

 

[Eiknarf]

Users were filling Metacritic with 0s and 10s at 12:02am on Friday when it released

Any 0s and 10s given by users on Metacritic in the first four hours should automatically be removed because there’s no way those users could have even finished the game!!

 

[Woggleman]

Maybe metacritic should wait a week after anything releases to allow use reviews. That way people have had time to take it all in and make their impression and overzealous haters and fans have had time to calm down.

 

[Self]

Maybe the scale should be shortened, just for Naughty Dog?

No, it is totally sufficient to look at a game without an underlying agenda.
It's actually very easy for apolitical people.

An act of defiance is an honest approach.

It can be, yes. In the case of TLoU2 it rather smacks of the 'revenge' of a political mob, don't you think?

People are free to do whatever they like, but a objective, unemotional approach would be favorable.

 

[Whitecrow]

Maybe metacritic should wait a week after anything releases to allow use reviews. That way people have had time to take it all in and make their impression and overzealous haters and fans have had time to calm down.

Lots of journos doesnt even finish the game before reviewing. i'd say that's fair how it is now.

 

[M1chl]

"Haters", best defence while CONSUME™

 

[Swadedtx]

There is a difference titillation and a genuine gay relationship being depicted. Plus for some reason people think Dina is ugly.

They changed her looks and her tit size.

I've worked with alot of lesbians I have no idea with what they go through I'm pretty sure I just see the good side , I've just never heard anyone back talk them for sexual shit. Only bigoted thing I've heard is about one of the girls having a baby.

There are legit stupid things in the writing of this game that make no sense. The story is really dumb but the voice acting is superb to the point it could blind you how dumb the elements in the story actually are.

I'm a critical person, the issue is that people think the people that bashing the game are bigots like the way jewish people hate when people criticize them for Palestine (I do believe some people are bigots who are hating) the story is legit garbage though.

There's a scene where someone gets let go from a bad situation and it makes no sense on why would you just let this person go at the beginning. The end is like Thanos collecting all the infinity stones and not snapping his fingers.

Maybe metacritic should wait a week after anything releases to allow use reviews. That way people have had time to take it all in and make their impression and overzealous haters and fans have had time to calm down.

This... I see alot of people who love the game at the beginning and don't understand the hate. The game gets worse and worse as time goes on.

 

[Kerlurk]

Gaming Discussion

Video game news, industry analysis, sales figures, deals, impressions, reviews, and discussions of everything in the medium, covering all platforms, genres, and territories.

www.neogaf.com

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I went to Metacritic, and I started reading the reviews.

There are tons of reviews from people who clearly played the game, and are giving it low scores.

If you think this game should be universally loved like the critics have, then you're clueless on what makes a good story.

Read up on the the review disparity between critics and fans for the "The Last Jedi", and you will understand why this game is failing to also resonate with fans.

There is a reason why the first game was so loved. It was about a relationship that you cared about, and could identify with. You can't just throw that away.

If Naughty Dog wanted to pander to a particular ideology, then they should have created a new game with completely new characters, and release that, but they believe, that to get the most people indoctrinated, you have to take a huge hit, and change it to their ideological values.

How's that working out for you?

You seem to have completely misinterpreted my post...

 

[Kerlurk]

Gaming Discussion

Video game news, industry analysis, sales figures, deals, impressions, reviews, and discussions of everything in the medium, covering all platforms, genres, and territories.

www.neogaf.com

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Sorry, I was agreeing with your post. The "you" is to all the people out there, that think this game does not deserve low scores.

Sorry, should have been more clear.

Okay gotcha lol, I was like "Why is this guy coming at me like this when I was expressing the same sentiments".

 

[Swadedtx]

 

[Gamer79]

The majority of people hating on this game is for the story, yes there is a minority of people being hateful to the lgbt community. So I guess you can pick and choose who you want to yell at.

The story is the main reason to play this game. It isn't like the gameplay is fantastic or anything.

 

[Guilty_AI]

It can be, yes. In the case of TLoU2 it rather smacks of the 'revenge' of a political mob, don't you think?

Even if we assume the bad reviews are largely due to politics (which reading some of them you'll see that really isn't the core issues people have as much as a possible cause for said issues), when Druckmann himself openly declares how he is politicizing his games and pushing agendas, he doesn't get to turn around and say you can't judge his work for said political views.

People are free to do whatever they like, but a objective, unemotional approach would be favorable.

Thats just not possible when we're dealing with something that plays largely with emotions. This isn't a car or a diaper where there are very objective things we can criticize.

 

[LittleBigGamer]

 

[Kerlurk]

Gaming Discussion

Video game news, industry analysis, sales figures, deals, impressions, reviews, and discussions of everything in the medium, covering all platforms, genres, and territories.

www.neogaf.com

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Users were filling Metacritic with 0s and 10s at 12:02am on Friday when it released

Any 0s and 10s given by users on Metacritic in the first four hours should automatically be removed because there’s no way those users could have even finished the game!!

Plot twist: the earliest 0/10 reviews were from journalists who had actually finished the game by release date, and spammed user reviews to express their real opinion of the game!

 

[Self]

Even if we assume the bad reviews are largely due to politics (which reading some of them you'll see that really isn't the core issues people have as much as a possible cause for said issues), when Druckmann himself openly declares how he is politicizing his games and pushing agendas, he doesn't get to turn around and say you can't judge his work for said political views.

You may judge the political side of the game as well as the director's underlying agenda, but still evaluate a good work done. If your premise is true (game design is faulty) it's predecessor would have received the same treatment (they play alike).

Thats just not possible when we're dealing with something that plays largely with emotions. This isn't a car or a diaper where there are very objective things we can criticize.

I argue it is possible. To evaluate something as a whole, without any emotion involved.

There are games and movies where I certainly dislike and outright reject underlying motivations. But I am still able to see and respect the art, the creativity, the craftsmanship, the skills of the people involved in creating it.

 

[Clear]

Call them haters and children all you want, but that's just an easy way out to not evaluate the problem and how things got here. Something changed and not with the society which judges these games.

It's funny really, when a game isn't pandering or trying to force political ideologies on the player how well it does. Then comes this game...

Oh come on, you cannot argue that society/gaming culture hasn't changed drastically since 2013/2014.

You're talking pre-Gamergate, pre the rise of woke and callout culture, pre Trump presidency ...

In case you haven't noticed there's a culture war going on right now. This is just another facet of it.

 

[Jon Neu]

And all of those books actually have a main goal of using their stories to push an idea (which you said was bad originally, I guess you're dropping that now). TLOU2 doesn't.

Literally Neil Cuckmann has told the world he had this secret agenda of pushing character designs based on third wave feminism and the ideas of Anita Sarkeesian.

So yeah, you only have to watch at the characters designs to see the obvious agenda Cuckmann is pushing.

That and the cringe like dialogues such as bigot sandwich, which is not an anecdote at all, but the result of the whole SJW package.

 

[LittleBigGamer]

Oh come on, you cannot argue that society/gaming culture hasn't changed drastically since 2013/2014.

You're talking pre-Gamergate, pre the rise of woke and callout culture, pre Trump presidency ...

In case you haven't noticed there's a culture war going on right now. This is just another facet of it.

20.000 of them don't know what PlayStation is.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Genuine curious, if you really like story and graphic in video games, would you will find reading books and watching film same too? even better cause TLoU storytelling maybe great from games standard but still far cry from both mentioned.

I would argue it is highly dependent on the things that surround it. The medium itself in which the story is told. Even if a story is generic or cliched, depending on how it is presented, it could elevate it for that user. Personally I didn't find Last of Us 1 to be all that engaging from a story standpoint, but I can see why others gravitated toward it even if we had both viewed the same media beforehand.

Users like these?

Those are 6 users out of over 18,000 negative user reviews. 0.03% of the total reviews. If you are trying to suggest that the *majority* of negative reviews are disgruntled console warriors, you will need to try a bit harder (though I have no doubt that there are a good number of them, just nowhere near the majority like the narrative by a handful here implies).

No, it is totally sufficient to look at a game without an underlying agenda.
It's actually very easy for apolitical people.



It can be, yes. In the case of TLoU2 it rather smacks of the 'revenge' of a political mob, don't you think?

People are free to do whatever they like, but a objective, unemotional approach would be favorable.

You are correct that it is easy to look at the game without a political lens. The issue you are failing to grasp is that those can be and are also unhappy enough to rate the game very lowly. Something you have been adamant about saying is only a political move. It is clear you have a bias and can't fathom the idea that someone would rate the game lowly without it being some politically motivated action.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Jesus Christ this post.

It's dynamite. What do you expect lol

 

[GreyHorace]

Welp. There it is. People are hilariously naive if they don't think that game reviews aren't paid for.

Literally Neil Cuckmann has told the world he had this secret agenda of pushing character designs based on third wave feminism and the ideas of Anita Sarkeesian.

So yeah, you only have to watch at the characters designs to see the obvious agenda Cuckmann is pushing.

That and the cringe like dialogues such as bigot sandwich, which is not an anecdote at all, but the result of the whole SJW package.

I mean, there's a talk Druckmann gave where he laid this out. Some clips in the video below. Also included, Troy Baker being a cuck.

 

[Self]

The issue you are failing to grasp is that those can be and are also unhappy enough to rate the game very lowly.

You have to respect contradicting judgements. I see no problem in people disliking games I tend to like or vice versa.

But 'sudden' review-bombing is certainly a whole different ball game, don't you think?

 

[Jon Neu]

I mean, there's a talk Druckmann gave where he laid this out. Some clips in the video below. Also included, Troy Baker being a cuck.

Yeah, Cuckmann has literally outlined more than once how he introduces his third wave feminism and SJW agenda through character design alone.

Spoiler: Spoiler of the game

I mean, we have a little trans kid who murders his mother because she was a bigot sandwich too.

We have Abby, we have Ellie and Dina and so on.

It’s literally SJW porn.

 

[BlackM1st]

Is it SHIT because of the lesbian garbage SJW bullshit or is it SHIT because in general you believe it is poorly designed and implementation of mechanics are subpar leaving it a SHIT game?

Why not both?

 

[Guilty_AI]

You may judge the political side of the game as well as the director's underlying agenda, but still evaluate a good work done. If your premise is true (game design is faulty) it's predecessor would have received the same treatment (they play alike).

The issue people have isn't game design, its bad story telling. The main reasoning behind the critics is something like this VVV

Spoiler: It should be spoiler-free but i'll be marking spoiler for safety

-Imagine taking a bunch of overused talking points everyone understands already and stretching them into a 30 hour game.
-Then, we have a set of new uninteristing characters which get shoved into the spotlights of the story anyway, all while old beloved ones get treated disrespectfully and put on the sidelines.
-The setting itself already wasn't all that interesting in the first place, and the sequence of events of the story is also pretty predictable.
-And finally, the game just throws unpleasant after unpleasant thing on your face, except if the story has no real substance to justify those unpleasant events, the whole thing becomes just that, unpleasant. Not the "deep thought-provoking perception-challenging" type of unpleasant but the "hearing the screams of a woman getting burned alive" type of unpleasant. Of course, if you're into that you might actually dig this game

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I've never understood these people that think they can review a game by watching it on YouTube

Yeh any serious attempt to argue that is fucking retarded